{"error":false,"id":["154880"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":154880,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154880","日期":"2024-09-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-2-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-09-24T15:17:56+08:00","結束時間":"2024-09-24T15:33:45+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:49","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":212,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（15時18分）有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：院長，先跟你抱歉，我們今天程序委員會行政院的預算再度被退回。從7月16日休會到今天可以正式在這邊再質詢院長，其實這一段時間柏毅在地方上也做了很多的努力，包含跟行政院團隊做的多項協調，我在這邊也要負責地跟我的選民報告。","新台17線在去年度院長還沒有上任的時候，國防部提出比原本多14億必須要高雄市政府來代拆代建，包含興建新的戰備跑道、包含中正哨口等等這一些，我在這個暑假期間也拜託公共工程委員會陳金德主委以及李怡德副主委，很順利在9月5號跟9月18號的現勘分別解決了幾個問題，甚至現在國防部也允許高雄市政府不用重送公建計畫，用抽換的方式直接跟國防部這邊來抽換，把14億裡面國防部需要的戰備跑道28億已經抽換完畢，目前就等國防部快速送給行政院，我們的目標還是期待在2026年這一條路能如期通車，在這邊感謝行政院各部會的協調，包含工程會跟高雄市政府還有國防部，院長，但這個也是明年度的預算。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，有關需要代拆代建的公共建設計畫，也就是南段二期那幾個需求項目，9月23號已經……"],["李委員柏毅：完成抽換了。"],["顧部長立雄：呈報行政院審議了。"],["李委員柏毅：9月23已經呈報了？"],["顧部長立雄：呈報行政院了。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝部長，你請回。其實我過去處理這條新台17線已經處理十幾年了，沒有那麼簡單，感謝行政院橫向的聯繫，很快的協調，但是我們還是需要這些經費。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的關心，讓我們可以跟地方政府一起合作……"],["李委員柏毅：第二個，感謝院長本人，就是清華大學跟陽明交大要來高雄左營設分校的事情，在教育部送到國發會審核的9億預算裡面，原本少了一半，經過院長親自了解之後，這一筆預算也回復到9億，在這邊也感謝院長，但是這個還是需要明年度的預算在立法院來做實質的審核。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["李委員柏毅：針對這兩個預算，在這邊感謝院長對於國家重點領域校際研教園區的支持，高雄其實正在轉變，高雄其實正在脫胎換骨，高雄因為台積電加上AI，還有種種的產業，高雄其實正在轉變，我們需要的是大量的建設，但是在新任交通部長來之前，前任交通部長其實有到我辦公室，希望可以溝通一個高雄的方案，也就是高鐵延伸到屏東要不要經過高雄車站的這個方案。","2019年行政院蘇院長來到屏東宣布左營方案，希望這個左營方案可以讓高鐵從左營直接進入屏東，不用經過高雄車站、不用再明挖、不用再潛盾，用比較少的經費讓高鐵可以進入屏東。但是前部長到我辦公室的時候，鐵道局拿了高雄方案說要潛盾、要明挖，我想要確認一下這件事情，有沒有這一個高雄計畫？目前我看到部長一上任，同學，很認真喔！直接跑到屏東，宣布這個屏東六塊厝車站等等可能什麼時候要興建，我要問的是為什麼高雄計畫又重新被拿出來討論？","容我講一下，在高鐵公司成立的時候，在興建這些高鐵站計畫的時候，2000年以前，1998年核定高鐵在臺灣西部有哪幾個站，當時的高雄市市長吳敦義因為會經過高雄車站附近，會拆到一些房子，所以高鐵當時只到左營站。在2010年的時候國民黨執政，當時正在做高雄鐵路地下化工程，路政司曾經有一個公文，我show給大家看，當時的交通部長毛治國、當時的交通部次長葉匡時，後來十年後還被我們韓院長請來高雄當副市長的葉匡時，他一輩子也沒有想到，當時他否定這個計畫、讓高鐵進入高雄車站共軌的這個計畫、沒有進一步研究高鐵有沒有辦法進入高雄車站的這個計畫，有一天會在擔任高雄市副市長時被拿出來修理。兩次機會，一個國民黨的市長、一個國民黨的部長，都沒有讓高鐵進入高雄車站，甚至延伸到屏東。如果這個政策是確定的，如果這個政策確定高鐵要進入高雄車站、要延伸到屏東，請問這十多年來鐵路地下化造成高雄交通黑暗期，再加上高鐵如果要進入高雄車站，再一次明挖或者是再一次用潛盾，對高雄地區造成的影響，誰該負責？請問我們要怎麼樣把它做好，可以降低被影響的高雄市民？"],["卓院長榮泰：我重點答復委員之後，再請部長說明。"],["李委員柏毅：好。"],["卓院長榮泰：過去一段時間，我們所了解的是整個在決定高鐵南伸的時候左營方案是之前的一個決定，但是之後地方上有很多不同的意見，包括左營方案的優劣性，以及現在的高雄車站，不是左營車站，是高雄車站，是相當大，過去在興建的時候就是為了高鐵而做的，所以現在有討論到用高鐵進到高雄車站的高雄方案，目前是這個樣子，細節的部分我請部長來回答。"],["李委員柏毅：好，部長，請你回應。"],["陳部長世凱：跟委員報告，確實當時在2007年的時候，高鐵是要進到高雄車站的，當時是有這樣子的方案，但是在2010年的時候，像委員剛剛所說的，毛治國部長當時就覺得不可行，所以就是讓高鐵只有到……"],["李委員柏毅：不可行的原因說高鐵是BOT，跟臺鐵的延伸方案不一樣，隨便找一個理由啊！"],["陳部長世凱：是，所以當時就沒有延伸到高雄站，這是一個非常可惜的過程，因此當時高鐵就沒有進到高雄，到了現在大家在討論所謂延伸屏東的方案時就有兩個案子，一個是從左營走高屏二快，同樣的路廊直接到屏東，這是一個方案；另外一個方案就是回復到過去2007年當時所決定的高雄方案。第一個方案為什麼不可行？因為我們有找高鐵的原廠，也就是三菱重工來做過評估，他們評估的結論是不可行，有幾個原因，第一個，對於未來整個高鐵的整體轉運可能會有相當負面的影響；第二個，如果是從左營拉到屏東的話，車子在沒有足夠的機廠可以轉彎的狀況下，可能是倒退走的，倒著走到屏東，所以他們認為不可行。回到高雄方案，我剛剛必須要說的是，2007年確實我們有設定高雄方案，2010年雖然停止了，但是現在的高雄火車站，當時的設計就是要讓高鐵跟臺鐵一起進入車站，所以未來這個車站，我想委員應該很清楚，這個車站目前的建設是非常大的規模，上面還會有一個商業大樓、還會有一個飯店。"],["李委員柏毅：部長、同學，我要跟你講的是，我們現在如果再挖一次，對高雄市民需要一個交代……"],["陳部長世凱：我要跟委員報告……"],["李委員柏毅：為什麼當初在做鐵路地下化的時候沒有一併做，這個是誰做的決定？請說明清楚……"],["陳部長世凱：當時……"],["李委員柏毅：第二個，再次影響到高雄市民生活的時候，你要怎麼樣把這個傷害降到最低、影響降到最低？而這個都是補破網，補誰的破網？補當時2010年鐵路地下化的時候，就不應該沒有進入高雄車站的這個政策。"],["陳部長世凱：對於高雄市來說，如果當時在鐵路地下化的同時做高鐵延伸的話，其實是一次工，不用兩次工，委員也有秀出當時的文件，就是毛治國部長在當時做下這樣子的決定。確實在這十幾年的過程當中，我們看到高雄車站周邊的沒落也是一個很大的問題，我們看到高雄車站的運量在全臺灣目前已經排名到了第十一，大家的想像是臺北跟高雄應該是最大的兩站，目前高雄站已經退到了第十一名。"],["李委員柏毅：高雄車站要活絡，其實臺鐵在高雄做的每一個車站，它的這些區間車我們都建議可以加密，這個也建議部長……"],["陳部長世凱：是，這個部分我們會努力……"],["李委員柏毅：這個也建議部長可以來高雄……"],["陳部長世凱：另外，針對工程的部分不要造成大家的黑暗期，就是我們會大量用潛盾，不會用明挖，明挖會減少，會減到最低，也就是對於民眾的影響會最低。"],["李委員柏毅：就我目前看到的高雄計畫裡面，左營的明挖確實就影響到左營目前的崇德路，所以這個部分我們還要必須……"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分我會跟委員來協商，看怎麼樣減少影響。"],["李委員柏毅：跟所有的市民朋友說明清楚。"],["陳部長世凱：好，另外我們會用半半施工的方式，也就是東半邊在施工的時候，左半邊通行；左半邊施工的時候，右半邊通行，讓它在半半施工的狀況下，對交通影響會降到最低。"],["李委員柏毅：同學，我真的對你比較好，我讓你回答很多，時間快不夠了。接下來……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我講一句話就好了。"],["李委員柏毅：好，院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：我到高雄的時候，有人就跟我提到如果十多年前這個案子實施的話，第一個，已經接近完工，而且預算不用這麼多，當場我回他說，為了國人整個高鐵的運輸，也為了高雄市的發展，為了以後的院長，如果我有可能，在地方和諧共識之後，我願意做一個決定，讓它儘早實施。"],["李委員柏毅：還有，為了當時錯誤的政策，你現在做的都是補破網，我們希望把影響到高雄的部分降低，我們不會去阻止其他城市的發展，但是有影響到高雄市民的部分，希望可以降到最低。第二個，可以召開公開的說明會跟市民朋友說明清楚。"],["陳部長世凱：這個我們會舉辦。"],["李委員柏毅：接下來幾個小的啦，高雄方案進去之後，可能上千億，這個2億就好了。現在臺北車站進到高鐵第9車廂外面，直接走人行道，下手扶梯就會接到臺北捷運，我在8月的時候也會勘了高雄的高鐵，其實高雄捷運也都做好這個空間來準備了。高鐵目前的評估還有很多的顧慮，希望部長跟院長這邊也可以一併考量。","第三個，高雄現在的轉變非常地大，我秀一下最近的演唱會，包含火星人、艾爾頓強、ONE OK ROCK、Coldplay，最新的、今天公布的，BLACKPINK的Lisa也要來，還有現在高雄加上臺南的半導體製造業，TSMC的產值都已經超過新竹。我要告訴院長跟部長，高雄機場不需要幾百億的擴建，那個是幾百億的事情，高雄機場需要的是培養運量，把A350的飛機調來高雄，開始培養可以直飛歐、美或直飛澳洲的這些班機，要開始培養高雄機場的運量，有運量之後，這個機場才需要做更大的航廈興建等等，這個部分請部長簡單回應一下。"],["陳部長世凱：好，這個部分我們會先爭取到一些區域的航班，讓區域的航班增加之後，對於長線的這個部分，轉運的客人、轉乘的客人就會多，當轉乘的客人多、轉機的客人多的時候，長線的包含飛澳洲、飛美洲的部分就會增加。"],["李委員柏毅：先爭取國航，可以安排一架A350來高雄。"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分我們來努力。"],["李委員柏毅：捷運紫線在9月19日的時候，高雄市政府也已經送到交通部，我們進一步可能要做這些先行規劃以及可行性評估的核定，這個部分請交通部也加速規劃。"],["陳部長世凱：好，這部分我們會加速。"],["李委員柏毅：最後我只剩下1分鐘，要講臺灣跟中國房市的問題。我有看到央行總裁也在場，先恭喜，這一次央行的第七波信用管制應該會成功，應該會讓整個交易量停下來，應該房價在短期內也不會有再漲價的問題，但是我在這裡要提醒，從2021年到2024年一共34萬筆實價登錄的預售屋裡面，有多少是楊總裁認為必須要給教訓的？但是有多少是無辜要換屋，而有多少是家裡有繼承房產，出來外面買預售屋，他可能即將要面對多籌20%到30%交屋時的交屋款？有多少人也被楊總裁上了這一課？內政部沒有辦法給我答案，我相信央行也沒有辦法給我答案，只有到時候這些人被斷頭的時候，你才會知道答案，所以請正視這些人的問題，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李柏毅委員質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第17號賴士葆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-1","speakers":["韓國瑜","張啓楷","陳培瑜","羅智強","林國成","陳瑩","洪孟楷","黃秀芳","謝龍介","李柏毅","賴士葆","許智傑","黃健豪","陳素月"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-09-24"],"gazette_id":"1137501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137501_00003","1137501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第1次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n行政院院長施政報告並備質詢─ 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來有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢李委員好院長先跟你抱歉我們今天程序委員會 呃 行政院的預算再度被退回"},{"start":42.247,"end":61.577,"text":"但是在從7月16休會到今天正式可以在這邊再質詢院長其實這段時間柏毅在地方上也做了很多的努力包含跟行政院團隊做的多項協調我在這邊也要負責的跟我的選民來報告"},{"start":63.058,"end":83.121,"text":"新台17縣在去年度院長還沒有上任的時候國防部提出比原本多14億必須要高雄市政府來代差代鑒包含新建新的戰備跑道包含中正哨口等等這一些"},{"start":84.002,"end":93.082,"text":"那我在這個暑假期間那也拜託我們公共工程委員會陳金德主委以及李毅德副主委"},{"start":93.919,"end":117.371,"text":"很順利在9月5號跟9月18號的現刊分別解決了幾個問題那現在甚至國防部也允許高雄市政府把工建計畫不用重送用抽換的方式直接跟國防部這邊來抽換把14億裡面國防部需要的戰備跑到28億已經抽換完畢"},{"start":120.413,"end":142.111,"text":"那目前就等國防部這邊快速來送給行政院我們的目標還是期待在2026年這一條路能如期通車在這邊感謝行政院各部會的協調包含工程會跟高雄市政府還有國防部院長這個但是這個也是明年度的預算"},{"start":144.814,"end":154.949,"text":"有關我們需要代材代件的公共建設計畫,也就是我們的南段二期的幾個需求項目,9月23號已經"},{"start":158.052,"end":182.384,"text":"完成抽換 呈報行政院審議了9月23已經呈報了 謝謝部長你請回這個在過去其實我處理這條新台17縣處理了十幾年的沒有那麼簡單那感謝行政院的這個橫向的聯繫很快的協調好但是我們還是需要謝謝委員的關心讓我們可以跟地方政府一起合作第二個感謝院長本人"},{"start":183.226,"end":206.224,"text":"就是清華大學跟陽明交大要來高雄左營設分校的事情在教育部送到國發會審核的9億預算裡面原本少了一半經過院長親自了解之後這一筆預算也回復到9億在這邊也感謝院長但是這個還是需要明年度的預算在立法院來做實質的審核是的"},{"start":208.325,"end":236.794,"text":"這兩個預算在這邊感謝院長對於國家重點領域校際研教園區的這個支持高雄其實正在轉變高雄其實正在脫胎換骨高雄因為台積電加上AI還有種種的產業高雄其實正在轉變我們需要的是大量的建設但是在新任交通部長來之前前任交通部長其實有到我辦公室"},{"start":237.865,"end":252.326,"text":"希望可以溝通一個高雄方案也就是高鐵要延伸到屏東要不要經過高雄車站的這個方案2019年行政院蘇院長來到屏東"},{"start":253.387,"end":255.668,"text":"但是前部長到我辦公室的時候 鐵道局拿了"},{"start":277.418,"end":300.157,"text":"高雄方案說要淺遁要明挖我想要確認一下這件事情有沒有這一個高雄計畫目前我看到部長一上任同學很認真直接跑到屏東宣布這個屏東六塊處車站等等的可能什麼時候要興建我要問的是為什麼高雄計畫又重新被拿出來討論"},{"start":302.403,"end":329.702,"text":"容我講一下在高鐵公司成立的時候在做這些高鐵站計畫的時候2000年以前1998年合訂高鐵在臺灣西部有哪幾個站當時的高雄市市長吳敦義因為會經過高雄車站附近會拆到一些房子所以高鐵當時只到左營站"},{"start":330.834,"end":355.86,"text":"在2010年的時候國民黨執政當時正在做這個高雄的鐵路地下化的工程的時候陸正思曾經有一個公文我秀給大家看當時的交通部長毛志國當時的交通部次長葉匡石後來10年後還被我們韓院長請來高雄當副市長的葉匡石"},{"start":357.113,"end":385.085,"text":"他一輩子也沒有想到當時他否定這個計畫讓高鐵進入高雄車站供軌的這個計畫沒有進一步研究高鐵有沒有辦法進入高雄車站這個計畫有一天會在擔任高雄市副市長被拿出來修理兩次機會一個國民黨的市長一個國民黨的部長都沒有讓高鐵進入高雄車站甚至延伸到屏東"},{"start":386.581,"end":413.68,"text":"如果這個政策是確定的如果這個政策確定高鐵要進入高雄車站要延伸到屏東請問這10多年來鐵路地下化造成高雄交通黑暗期再加上高鐵如果要進入高雄車站再一次民挖或者是再一次用潛盾對高雄地區造成的影響誰該負責請問"},{"start":417.363,"end":433.492,"text":"我們要怎麼樣把它做好可以降低到影響高雄市民我重點答覆委員之後請部長來說明現在過去我們一段時間我們所了解的是左營方案是整個在決定高鐵南征的時候左營方案是"},{"start":434.312,"end":434.792,"text":"部長 請你回應"},{"start":461.181,"end":482.376,"text":"跟委員報告確實當時在2007年的時候高鐵是要進到高雄車站的當時是有這樣子的方案但是在2010年的時候像委員剛剛所說的由毛志國部長當時就覺得不可行不可行的原因說這個營運規劃這個公文慢慢幫我修一下"},{"start":484.754,"end":500.646,"text":"高鐵是BOT,台鐵跟台鐵的延伸方案不一樣,隨便找一個理由所以當時就沒有延伸到高雄站,這是一個非常可惜的過程,所以在當時我們的高鐵就沒有進到高雄"},{"start":501.527,"end":501.747,"text":"李柏毅議員"},{"start":524.111,"end":544.464,"text":"做過評估他們評估的結論是不可行幾個原因第一個對於未來的整個高鐵的整體的轉運可能會有相當負面的影響第二個如果是從左營拉到屏東的話車子沒有足夠的機場可以轉彎的狀況底下可能是倒退路倒著走到屏東所以他們認為不可行"},{"start":544.884,"end":571.072,"text":"那回到高雄方案我剛剛必須要說的是說2007年確實我們有設定高雄方案2010年雖然停止了但是我們的高雄車站現在的高雄火車站當時的設計就是要讓高鐵跟台鐵一起進入這個車站所以未來這個車站我想委員應該很清楚這個車站目前的建設是非常大的規模上面還會有一個商業大樓還會有一個飯店部長同學我跟你講的是"},{"start":572.247,"end":596.314,"text":"我們現在如果再挖一次對高雄市民需要一個交換為什麼你當初在做這個鐵路地下化的時候沒有一併做這個是誰做的決定請說明清楚第二個再次影響到高雄市民的生活的時候你要怎麼樣把這個傷害降到最低影響降到最低而這個都是補破網補誰的破網"},{"start":599.916,"end":624.665,"text":"當時2010年鐵路地下化的時候就不應該沒有進入高雄車站的這個政策是對於高雄市來說如果當時在鐵路地下化同時做高鐵的延伸的話其實是一次工不用兩次工那當時委員也有修出當時的文件就是毛志國部長當時做下這樣子的決定那確實在這十幾年的過程當中我們看到高雄車站周邊的沒落也是一個很大的問題"},{"start":625.385,"end":645.362,"text":"我們看到高雄車站的運量在全台灣目前已經排名到了第11大家的想像是臺北跟高雄應該是最大的兩站目前高雄站已經退到了第11名其實高雄車站要活絡齁其實臺鐵在高雄做的每一個車站它的區間的這些區間車其實我們都認為建議可以加密齁"},{"start":646.643,"end":666.242,"text":"這個部分我會努力另外針對工程的部分不要造成大家的黑暗期就是我們會大量用淺鈍不會用明蛙明蛙會減少會減到最低就我目前看到高雄計畫裡面左營的明蛙確實就影響到左營目前的崇德路所以這一個部分我們還要"},{"start":666.742,"end":666.842,"text":"接下來﹖"},{"start":687.117,"end":710.527,"text":"委員我講一句話就好了我到高雄的時候有人就跟我提到說如果10多年前這個案子實施的話第一個已經接近完工而且預算不用這麼多當場我回答說為了國人整個鐵道的高鐵的運輸也為了高雄市的發展為了以後的院長如果我有可能地方和諧共識之後我願意做一個決定讓他儘早實施"},{"start":710.947,"end":711.227,"text":"李柏毅議員"},{"start":737.38,"end":741.214,"text":"這個高雄方案進去之後可能上千億這個兩億就好了"},{"start":742.408,"end":769.137,"text":"現在臺北車站進到高鐵第9車廂外面直接下這個人行道首扶梯就會接到臺北捷運我在8月的時候也會勘了這個高雄的高鐵其實高雄捷運也都做好這個空間來準備了那高鐵目前的評估還有很多的顧慮希望部長跟院長這邊也一併可以做這個考量那第三個"},{"start":770.177,"end":798.562,"text":"高雄現在的轉變非常的大我來我秀一下這個演唱會最近的演唱會包含火星人包含艾爾頓牆包含One Ok Rock Coldplay最新的今天公布的Blackpink的Lisa也要來那這一些還有高雄現在加上台南的這個半導體的製造業TSMC的這個產值都已經超過新竹"},{"start":799.724,"end":828.232,"text":"我要告訴院長跟部長高雄機場不需要幾百億的擴建那個是幾百億的事情高雄機場需要的是培養運量把A350的飛機調來高雄開始培養可以直飛歐美或直飛澳洲的這些班機開始培養高雄機場的運量有運量之後這個機場才需要做更大的航廈的興建等等"},{"start":830.014,"end":831.115,"text":"先爭取國航,可以安排一架A350來高雄"},{"start":852.307,"end":879.632,"text":"那捷運紫縣也在9月19的時候高雄市政府已經送到交通部我們進一步可能要做這些先行規劃以及可能性評估的核定這個請交通部也加速規劃最後我只剩下一分鐘來講臺灣跟中國的房市的問題我有看到我們央行總裁也在場那先恭喜這一次央房的第7波信用管制應該會成功"},{"start":882.578,"end":893.544,"text":"應該會讓整個交易量停下來應該房價短期內也不會有再漲價的問題但是我在這裡要提醒2021年到2024年一共34萬實價登錄的預售屋裡面"},{"start":901.417,"end":930.788,"text":"有多少是楊總裁認為必須要給教訓的但是有多少是無辜要換屋有多少是家裡有繼承房產出來外面買預收屋他可能即將面對多籌20%到30%的交屋的時候的交屋款有多少人也被楊總裁上了這一課內政部沒有辦法給我答案我相信央行也沒有辦法給我答案"},{"start":931.502,"end":932.303,"text":"謝謝李柏毅委員質詢 謝謝卓院長的備詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:18:17.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:18:19.461000+08:00","text":"有請卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-24T15:18:19.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:18:28.789000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:18:28.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:18:29.069000+08:00","text":"李委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:18:29.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:18:36.997000+08:00","text":"院長，先跟你抱歉，我們今天程序委員會行政院的預算再度被退回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:18:39.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:18:57.557000+08:00","text":"從7月16日休會到今天可以正式在這邊再質詢院長，其實這一段時間柏毅在地方上也做了很多的努力，包含跟行政院團隊做的多項協調，我在這邊也要負責地跟我的選民報告。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:18:59.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:18.091000+08:00","text":"新台17線在去年度院長還沒有上任的時候，國防部提出比原本多14億必須要高雄市政府來代拆代建，包含興建新的戰備跑道、包含中正哨口等等這一些，我在這個暑假期間也拜託公共工程委員會陳金德主委以及李怡德副主委，很順利在9月5號跟9月18號的現勘分別解決了幾個問題，甚至現在國防部也允許高雄市政府不用重送公建計畫，用抽換的方式直接跟國防部這邊來抽換，把14億裡面國防部需要的戰備跑道28億已經抽換完畢，目前就等國防部快速送給行政院，我們的目標還是期待在2026年這一條路能如期通車，在這邊感謝行政院各部會的協調，包含工程會跟高雄市政府還有國防部，院長，但這個也是明年度的預算。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:20.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:30.949000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關需要代拆代建的公共建設計畫，也就是南段二期那幾個需求項目，9月23號已經……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:34.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:35.093000+08:00","text":"完成抽換了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:35.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:36.173000+08:00","text":"呈報行政院審議了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:36.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:37.854000+08:00","text":"9月23已經呈報了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:37.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:39.995000+08:00","text":"呈報行政院了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:39.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:40.615000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，你請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:42.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:52.861000+08:00","text":"其實我過去處理這條新台17線已經處理十幾年了，沒有那麼簡單，感謝行政院橫向的聯繫，很快的協調，但是我們還是需要這些經費。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:53.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:20:56.163000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心，讓我們可以跟地方政府一起合作……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:20:57.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:21:22.204000+08:00","text":"第二個，感謝院長本人，就是清華大學跟陽明交大要來高雄左營設分校的事情，在教育部送到國發會審核的9億預算裡面，原本少了一半，經過院長親自了解之後，這一筆預算也回復到9億，在這邊也感謝院長，但是這個還是需要明年度的預算在立法院來做實質的審核。是的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:21:24.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:22:03.980000+08:00","text":"針對這兩個預算，在這邊感謝院長對於國家重點領域校際研教園區的支持，高雄其實正在轉變，高雄其實正在脫胎換骨，高雄因為台積電加上AI，還有種種的產業，高雄其實正在轉變，我們需要的是大量的建設，但是在新任交通部長來之前，前任交通部長其實有到我辦公室，希望可以溝通一個高雄的方案，也就是高鐵延伸到屏東要不要經過高雄車站的這個方案。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:22:03.980000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:22:09.387000+08:00","text":"2019年行政院蘇院長來到屏東宣布左營方案，希望這個左營方案可以讓高鐵從左營直接進入屏東，不用經過高雄車站、不用再明挖、不用再潛盾，用比較少的經費讓高鐵可以進入屏東。","quality":0.151},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:22:09.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:22:40.584000+08:00","text":"但是前部長到我辦公室的時候，鐵道局拿了高雄方案說要潛盾、要明挖，我想要確認一下這件事情，有沒有這一個高雄計畫？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:22:40.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:22:44.788000+08:00","text":"目前我看到部長一上任，同學，很認真喔！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:22:45.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:22:56.157000+08:00","text":"直接跑到屏東，宣布這個屏東六塊厝車站等等可能什麼時候要興建，我要問的是為什麼高雄計畫又重新被拿出來討論？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:22:58.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:23:25.682000+08:00","text":"容我講一下，在高鐵公司成立的時候，在興建這些高鐵站計畫的時候，2000年以前，1998年核定高鐵在臺灣西部有哪幾個站，當時的高雄市市長吳敦義因為會經過高雄車站附近，會拆到一些房子，所以高鐵當時只到左營站。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:23:26.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:24:11.281000+08:00","text":"在2010年的時候國民黨執政，當時正在做高雄鐵路地下化工程，路政司曾經有一個公文，我show給大家看，當時的交通部長毛治國、當時的交通部次長葉匡時，後來十年後還被我們韓院長請來高雄當副市長的葉匡時，他一輩子也沒有想到，當時他否定這個計畫、讓高鐵進入高雄車站共軌的這個計畫、沒有進一步研究高鐵有沒有辦法進入高雄車站的這個計畫，有一天會在擔任高雄市副市長時被拿出來修理。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:24:12.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:24:21.085000+08:00","text":"兩次機會，一個國民黨的市長、一個國民黨的部長，都沒有讓高鐵進入高雄車站，甚至延伸到屏東。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:24:22.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:24:49.680000+08:00","text":"如果這個政策是確定的，如果這個政策確定高鐵要進入高雄車站、要延伸到屏東，請問這十多年來鐵路地下化造成高雄交通黑暗期，再加上高鐵如果要進入高雄車站，再一次明挖或者是再一次用潛盾，對高雄地區造成的影響，誰該負責？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:24:49.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:24:56.745000+08:00","text":"請問我們要怎麼樣把它做好，可以降低被影響的高雄市民？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:24:56.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:24:59.346000+08:00","text":"我重點答復委員之後，再請部長說明。好。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:24:59.346000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:25:10.312000+08:00","text":"過去一段時間，我們所了解的是整個在決定高鐵南伸的時候左營方案是之前的一個決定，但是之後地方上有很多不同的意見，包括左營方案的優劣性，以及現在的高雄車站，不是左營車站，是高雄車站，是相當大，過去在興建的時候就是為了高鐵而做的，所以現在有討論到用高鐵進到高雄車站的高雄方案，目前是這個樣子，細節的部分我請部長來回答。","quality":0.201},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:25:10.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:25:10.792000+08:00","text":"好，部長，請你回應。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:25:37.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:25:51.411000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，確實當時在2007年的時候，高鐵是要進到高雄車站的，當時是有這樣子的方案，但是在2010年的時候，像委員剛剛所說的，毛治國部長當時就覺得不可行，所以就是讓高鐵只有到……","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:25:51.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:26:09.461000+08:00","text":"不可行的原因說高鐵是BOT，跟臺鐵的延伸方案不一樣，隨便找一個理由啊！","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:26:10.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:26:16.626000+08:00","text":"是，所以當時就沒有延伸到高雄站，這是一個非常可惜的過程，因此當時高鐵就沒有進到高雄，到了現在大家在討論所謂延伸屏東的方案時就有兩個案子，一個是從左營走高屏二快，同樣的路廊直接到屏東，這是一個方案；另外一個方案就是回復到過去2007年當時所決定的高雄方案。","quality":0.307},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:26:16.626000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:26:40.111000+08:00","text":"第一個方案為什麼不可行？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:26:40.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:27:00.444000+08:00","text":"因為我們有找高鐵的原廠，也就是三菱重工來做過評估，他們評估的結論是不可行，有幾個原因，第一個，對於未來整個高鐵的整體轉運可能會有相當負面的影響；第二個，如果是從左營拉到屏東的話，車子在沒有足夠的機廠可以轉彎的狀況下，可能是倒退走的，倒著走到屏東，所以他們認為不可行。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:27:01.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:27:24.471000+08:00","text":"回到高雄方案，我剛剛必須要說的是，2007年確實我們有設定高雄方案，2010年雖然停止了，但是現在的高雄火車站，當時的設計就是要讓高鐵跟臺鐵一起進入車站，所以未來這個車站，我想委員應該很清楚，這個車站目前的建設是非常大的規模，上面還會有一個商業大樓、還會有一個飯店。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:27:24.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:27:32.608000+08:00","text":"部長、同學，我要跟你講的是，我們現在如果再挖一次，對高雄市民需要一個交代……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:27:32.608000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:27:33.608000+08:00","text":"我要跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:27:32.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:27:39.270000+08:00","text":"為什麼當初在做鐵路地下化的時候沒有一併做，這個是誰做的決定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:27:40.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:27:40.611000+08:00","text":"請說明清楚……當時……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:27:41.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:27:50.194000+08:00","text":"第二個，再次影響到高雄市民生活的時候，你要怎麼樣把這個傷害降到最低、影響降到最低？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:27:50.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:27:52.314000+08:00","text":"而這個都是補破網，補誰的破網？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:27:55.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:28:01.198000+08:00","text":"補當時2010年鐵路地下化的時候，就不應該沒有進入高雄車站的這個政策。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:28:01.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:28:14.583000+08:00","text":"對於高雄市來說，如果當時在鐵路地下化的同時做高鐵延伸的話，其實是一次工，不用兩次工，委員也有秀出當時的文件，就是毛治國部長在當時做下這樣子的決定。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:28:15.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:28:31.594000+08:00","text":"確實在這十幾年的過程當中，我們看到高雄車站周邊的沒落也是一個很大的問題，我們看到高雄車站的運量在全臺灣目前已經排名到了第十一，大家的想像是臺北跟高雄應該是最大的兩站，目前高雄站已經退到了第十一名。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:28:32.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:28:41.342000+08:00","text":"高雄車站要活絡，其實臺鐵在高雄做的每一個車站，它的這些區間車我們都建議可以加密，這個也建議部長……","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:28:42.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:28:43.263000+08:00","text":"是，這個部分我們會努力……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:28:43.263000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:28:44.263000+08:00","text":"這個也建議部長可以來高雄……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:28:43.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:28:51.291000+08:00","text":"另外，針對工程的部分不要造成大家的黑暗期，就是我們會大量用潛盾，不會用明挖，明挖會減少，會減到最低，也就是對於民眾的影響會最低。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:28:54.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:02.222000+08:00","text":"就我目前看到的高雄計畫裡面，左營的明挖確實就影響到左營目前的崇德路，所以這個部分我們還要必須……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:02.222000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:03.222000+08:00","text":"這個部分我會跟委員來協商，看怎麼樣減少影響。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:03.222000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:04.222000+08:00","text":"跟所有的市民朋友說明清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:04.222000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:05.222000+08:00","text":"好，另外我們會用半半施工的方式，也就是東半邊在施工的時候，左半邊通行；左半邊施工的時候，右半邊通行，讓它在半半施工的狀況下，對交通影響會降到最低。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:05.222000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:06.222000+08:00","text":"同學，我真的對你比較好，我讓你回答很多，時間快不夠了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:02.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:02.842000+08:00","text":"接下來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:23.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:24.158000+08:00","text":"委員，我講一句話就好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:24.158000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:25.158000+08:00","text":"好，院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:24.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:46.507000+08:00","text":"我到高雄的時候，有人就跟我提到如果十多年前這個案子實施的話，第一個，已經接近完工，而且預算不用這麼多，當場我回他說，為了國人整個高鐵的運輸，也為了高雄市的發展，為了以後的院長，如果我有可能，在地方和諧共識之後，我願意做一個決定，讓它儘早實施。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:46.507000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:29:55.464667+08:00","text":"還有，為了當時錯誤的政策，你現在做的都是補破網，我們希望把影響到高雄的部分降低，我們不會去阻止其他城市的發展，但是有影響到高雄市民的部分，希望可以降到最低。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:29:55.464667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:30:04.422333+08:00","text":"第二個，可以召開公開的說明會跟市民朋友說明清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:30:04.422333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:30:13.380000+08:00","text":"這個我們會舉辦。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:30:13.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:30:17.194000+08:00","text":"接下來幾個小的啦，高雄方案進去之後，可能上千億，這個2億就好了。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:30:18.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:30:36.674000+08:00","text":"現在臺北車站進到高鐵第9車廂外面，直接走人行道，下手扶梯就會接到臺北捷運，我在8月的時候也會勘了高雄的高鐵，其實高雄捷運也都做好這個空間來準備了。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:30:37.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:30:44.176000+08:00","text":"高鐵目前的評估還有很多的顧慮，希望部長跟院長這邊也可以一併考量。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:30:45.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:31:14.542000+08:00","text":"第三個，高雄現在的轉變非常地大，我秀一下最近的演唱會，包含火星人、艾爾頓強、ONE OK ROCK、Coldplay，最新的、今天公布的，BLACKPINK的Lisa也要來，還有現在高雄加上臺南的半導體製造業，TSMC的產值都已經超過新竹。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:31:15.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:31:44.212000+08:00","text":"我要告訴院長跟部長，高雄機場不需要幾百億的擴建，那個是幾百億的事情，高雄機場需要的是培養運量，把A350的飛機調來高雄，開始培養可以直飛歐、美或直飛澳洲的這些班機，要開始培養高雄機場的運量，有運量之後，這個機場才需要做更大的航廈興建等等，這個部分請部長簡單回應一下。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:31:44.212000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:31:46.014000+08:00","text":"好，這個部分我們會先爭取到一些區域的航班，讓區域的航班增加之後，對於長線的這個部分，轉運的客人、轉乘的客人就會多，當轉乘的客人多、轉機的客人多的時候，長線的包含飛澳洲、飛美洲的部分就會增加。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:31:46.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:31:47.095000+08:00","text":"先爭取國航，可以安排一架A350來高雄。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:31:47.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:32:08.627000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們來努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:32:08.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:32:19.629000+08:00","text":"捷運紫線在9月19日的時候，高雄市政府也已經送到交通部，我們進一步可能要做這些先行規劃以及可行性評估的核定，這個部分請交通部也加速規劃。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2024-09-24T15:32:19.629000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:32:20.629000+08:00","text":"好，這部分我們會加速。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:32:19.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:32:25.350000+08:00","text":"最後我只剩下1分鐘，要講臺灣跟中國房市的問題。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:32:25.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:33:01.398000+08:00","text":"我有看到央行總裁也在場，先恭喜，這一次央行的第七波信用管制應該會成功，應該會讓整個交易量停下來，應該房價在短期內也不會有再漲價的問題，但是我在這裡要提醒，從2021年到2024年一共34萬筆實價登錄的預售屋裡面，有多少是楊總裁認為必須要給教訓的？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:33:02.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:33:18.225000+08:00","text":"但是有多少是無辜要換屋，而有多少是家裡有繼承房產，出來外面買預售屋，他可能即將要面對多籌20%到30%交屋時的交屋款？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:33:18.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:33:23.327000+08:00","text":"有多少人也被楊總裁上了這一課？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2024-09-24T15:33:23.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:33:26.768000+08:00","text":"內政部沒有辦法給我答案，我相信央行也沒有辦法給我答案，只有到時候這些人被斷頭的時候，你才會知道答案，所以請正視這些人的問題，謝謝。","quality":0.424},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-24T15:33:27.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-24T15:33:28.303000+08:00","text":"謝謝李柏毅委員質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-24T15:33:28.803000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-24T15:33:33.660143+08:00","text":"接下來我們請登記第17號賴士葆委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-09-24T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"15:17:56 - 15:33:45","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢）"},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}