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20年前我們一起在立法院打拚20年後你現在已經高升為交通部的部長"},{"start":28.822,"end":50.863,"text":"我聽到這個消息一方面為你感到高興因為我相信這是二十年來你自己的努力得到賴總統然後這個卓院長的這個賞賜肯定所以才會指派這個任務給你那第二個我也感到為你感到一絲的沉重這個交通部加大越大"},{"start":51.894,"end":66.959,"text":"要當部長不容易啦這個所管轄的範圍太廣你想陸海空到觀光然後各式各樣交通部下屬所有的事業單位所以一個部長要能夠全懂不容易"},{"start":67.901,"end":93.578,"text":"你上任之後我也看到一些媒體的朋友或者在野黨對你有一些挑戰包括說你是不是交通的專業我在交通委員會算資深了在立法院也差不多將近20年了在我看法交通部基本上所謂的專不專業他第一個問題大家問的應該是說是不是交通本科"},{"start":95.202,"end":109.967,"text":"那交通部部長大概我算了一下應該接近有一半任期都不是在交通本科的部長底下在主政但是交通的專業其實跟本科不一定"},{"start":112.97,"end":130.842,"text":"我講這個話不是要鼓勵你或者替你講話而是我要告訴你說交通部長在我的這麼多年的任內看交通部長要做好要被大家肯定叫做專業我統結八個字叫做謙卑傾聽認真做事交通部部長範圍太廣了"},{"start":135.396,"end":140.715,"text":"有沒有認真傾聽因為你的業務太廣你一個人無法每一樣你都很了解"},{"start":141.516,"end":168.898,"text":"我請教部長你上任之後所有業務單位你都請他們來跟你做過這個簡報了嗎?報告委員所有的業務單位都跟我做過簡報那我也很積極的在跟各個業務單位在做溝通那除此之外我也做行動的管理也就是說到各個地方到各局處去該看的部分其實我們也都看了那一些工會我們也都接觸過也都理解說所有所屬單位的工會的心聲OK"},{"start":169.438,"end":183.383,"text":"這個叫做內部傾聽每一個部會這些文官都是從基層一路上來他們有他們的專業所以做部長一定要了解每一個業務單位這些文官去尊重他們、傾聽他們專業的意見"},{"start":185.604,"end":205.278,"text":"二、你拜訪過立法院所有交通委員會的委員沒有?報告委員每一位委員我都拜訪過了有一些非交通委員會的我也拜訪過了那你知道交通委員的委員基本上都是立法院相對比較資深的委員是我曉得他們都對交通的領域有一定程度的認識跟專業是我考你一下好了"},{"start":207.028,"end":231.203,"text":"在鐵道建設裡面本席對台中有三樣我已經講過非常多年了你覺得是哪三個哪三項台中的捷運橘線以及台中的捷運藍線那還有一條就是當時我在擔任議員的時候跟委員一起在努力的台中的這個台鐵海線的雙軌高架化好那主席魯明哲委員他最重視交通建設是什麼"},{"start":231.783,"end":231.883,"text":"主席,對嗎?對,好,謝謝。"},{"start":254.98,"end":281.462,"text":"因為我不知道你我沒有開關注你關心什麼但我的部分是對啦所以我也請教一下看你的部分對不對齁好這個就是做一個部長要傾聽立法院對的事情不論他什麼顏色啦該做的事情因為交通建設沒有顏色嘛該做的事情就是要去做而每一個委員在他的轄區的這個領域當中他一定對一些特別事項你要去關心第三個要傾聽民意啦"},{"start":282.504,"end":301.341,"text":"這個未來會有很多的交通建設跟交通政策的提出他會跟人民直接相關如果交通部沒有認真去傾聽民意這個部長得不到民眾的支持所以這個叫做認真傾聽接下來你就要做事啦就你傾聽完之後你就要做事"},{"start":302.282,"end":329.725,"text":"重大的交通建設進度到哪裡該怎麼進行我想這些就是部長你要帶領著所有交通部的團隊去做的這個是我給你的我看到你沉重壓力我給你八個字的祝福啦我希望這八個字能夠讓你當一個專業的部長那考驗才剛開始啦考驗才剛開始接下來呢我想這個我要來問一下部長我想你也知道"},{"start":330.925,"end":357.547,"text":"對於這個行人地域本席長期以來都一直非常關心這個惡名何時可以移除最近台中又發生了一個這個東海大學的女同學這麼青春年華的歲月走在斑馬線上面竟然被公車念壁我看了她的媽媽的一些發言包括昨天的這個講話我其實非常的難過"},{"start":359.107,"end":377.959,"text":"而且這個剛好也是我東海大學的學妹媽媽說希望不要這個她的犧牲她女兒的犧牲啊能夠是有意義的那媽媽有大愛啊說實在話我覺得很感動但是我們站在立法委員監督的立場"},{"start":379.448,"end":392.478,"text":"本席還是必須要把我的一些看法跟我們目前的一些作為我們還是要做一些檢討而這個檢討一定要針對原因針對一些數據本席列了幾個你看看這個你看看這個數據本席在今年五月我就講過台中市"},{"start":404.471,"end":430.448,"text":"是傷亡啊這個相對於其他縣市來講我們算是最嚴重的啦特別在直轄市裡面你看喔各縣市113年1到6月30日到6月之前啊你看台中市啊是28人死亡人數比較去年同期還增加了7人下一頁"},{"start":433.839,"end":460.32,"text":"這個我們交通部跟內政部跟地方政府來合作要盤點這個所謂優先改善的路口這個包括內政部本席也提了這個內政部也編了預算這個中央重視嘛所以也編了預算來改善這些危險路口但這些危險路口要跟地方政府來配合但是你看看這個中央編了錢也有了政策希望來把這個行人地域解決啦"},{"start":461.641,"end":479.191,"text":"但是你看臺中市政府63處只改了4處進度實在是緩慢而且比起其他縣市你看我們這個落後那麼多臺中市到8月僅改善4處是直轄市最低的來下一頁"},{"start":481.462,"end":509.053,"text":"那你再來看看這個以10萬人死傷人數來統計你看這個台中市3405這個也是難看的數字所以本席在上一次就是在今年5月的質詢的時候我就講了當時的李部長跟交通部的同仁告訴本席說會督促台中市政府請台中市政府提出檢討報告來讓我們看一下檢討報告是什麼"},{"start":514.097,"end":539.964,"text":"二、檢討報告叫用路人普遍不守法用路人普遍不守法也就是行人的問題啦不是市政府改善這些問題再來人口數持續成長機動車輛持續增加所以呢基本上我們這個市政府啊是放牛般的市政府啦這樣的一個狀況所以再發生了"},{"start":541.82,"end":570.202,"text":"這一次的這個不幸事件就讓本席覺得交通部對於放牛班的學生不能只是上一次本席還拜託你們說多多幫忙台中市政府多多協助台中市政府讓放牛班的學生可不可以好一點但是我看光鼓勵支持幫助這個是不夠的台中市還是一樣依然顧我所以我們台中市市民行的安全"},{"start":571.38,"end":586.451,"text":"像這些學童走斑馬線還遇到這樣的問題表示這個放牛班的學生不受教部長除了協助去年除了今年5月我講的協助幫助之外"},{"start":587.762,"end":604.154,"text":"交通部是不是對於不只台中市,當然台中最嚴重啦就其他相對改善慢、置之不理對於用路行人安全的投入資源過少關注度過少的這些縣市政府要不要採取一些比較"},{"start":607.142,"end":621.538,"text":"強硬一點的手段或者有一點處分型的手段不然放牛班的孩子整天放在宿治那裡本席叫你們去問你們問回來還是這些都是別人的問題都跟市政府沒有任何改善作為"},{"start":623.184,"end":643.42,"text":"報告委員一方面我們當然會主動協助像您所交代的我們會主動協助台中市政府在交通安全上面的改善的部分那二方面針對成績比較不好的一些縣市一方面我們在這個網路上我們會公布這個數字讓縣市政府有壓力那二方面其實我們行政院也有一個道安工作彙報"},{"start":644.281,"end":665.4,"text":"那我們會請他們來做專案報告那昨天確實台中市政府已經來行政院做過專案報告了也就是在匯報的過程要說明說他們到底未來要怎麼樣改善台中市的交通那這個部分管考的部分我們會繼續嚴格來督促都是活生生的人命特別像這種十幾歲、二十歲的孩子"},{"start":666.465,"end":690.468,"text":"遇到這種不幸我相信這個不分朝野不分政黨大家其實都很難過所以我們能夠做的是怎麼在政策督促要求政府的角色是什麼政府的角色怎麼去要求民間這些客運公司怎麼營造一個安全的環境其實這個都是我們責無旁貸的事情一起加油啦謝謝謝謝委員"}]},"會議時間":"2024-09-26T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:40:55 - 09:52:28","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、內政部、內政部警政署及內政部國土管理署就「行人交通安全改善成效暨道路見警率對於道安事故防範效益與警力配置」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱及國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微就「臺鐵公司化執行情況、獎敘規範暨軌道月台旅客安全規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":200,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（9時40分）謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：好，陳部長。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長早。"],["陳部長世凱：委員早。"],["蔡委員其昌：時間過得很快，20年前我們一起在立法院打拼。"],["陳部長世凱：是，我是您的助理。"],["蔡委員其昌：20年後，你現在已經高升為交通部的部長。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝。"],["蔡委員其昌：我聽到這個消息，一方面為你感到高興，因為我相信這是20年來你自己的努力得到賴總統、卓院長的賞識、肯定，所以才會指派這個任務給你。第二個、我也為你感到一絲的沉重，交通部家大業大，要當部長不容易，所管轄的範圍太廣，你想陸海空到觀光，然後各式各樣交通部下屬所有的事業單位，所以一個部長要能夠全懂不容易。你上任之後，我也看到一些媒體的朋友或者在野黨對你有一些挑戰，包括說你是不是交通的專業，我在交通委員會算資深了啦！在立法院也差不多將近20年，在我的看法，交通部基本上所謂的專不專業，大家問的第一個問題應該是說是不是交通本科啦！交通部部長，大概我算了一下，應該接近有一半任期都不是在交通本科的部長底下主政……"],["陳部長世凱：是，差不多一半……"],["蔡委員其昌：但是交通的專業其實跟本科不一定截然有關係，我講這個話不是要鼓勵你或者替你講話，而是我要告訴你說，交通部長在我這麼多年的任內看，交通部長要做好、要被大家肯定叫做專業，我統結8個字，叫做謙卑傾聽、認真做事。交通部部長範圍太廣了，有沒有認真傾聽，因為你的業務太廣，你一個人無法每一樣你都很了解。我請教部長，你上任之後，所有業務單位你都請他們來跟你做過簡報了嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，所有的業務單位都跟我做過簡報，我也很積極地在跟各個業務單位溝通，除此之外我也做行動的管理，也就是說到各個地方、到各局處去，該看的部分其實我們也都看了，一些工會我們也都接觸過，也都理解所有所屬單位工會的心聲。"],["蔡委員其昌：OK，這個叫做內部傾聽啦！每一個部會這些文官都是從基層一路上來，他們有他們的專業，所以做部長一定要了解每一個業務單位這些文官，去尊重他們、傾聽他們專業的意見。第二個、你拜訪過立法院所有的交通委員會的委員沒有？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，每一位委員我都拜訪過了。"],["蔡委員其昌：拜訪過了。"],["陳部長世凱：有一些非交通委員會的我也拜訪過了。"],["蔡委員其昌：那你知道交通委員會的委員基本上都是立法院相對比較資深的委員。"],["陳部長世凱：是，我曉得。"],["蔡委員其昌：他們都對交通的領域有一定程度的認識跟專業。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：我考你一下好了，在鐵道建設裡面，本席對臺中有3樣我已經講過非常多年了，你覺得是哪3項？"],["陳部長世凱：臺中的捷運橘線以及臺中的捷運藍線，還有一條就是當時我在擔任議員的時候跟委員一起努力的，臺中臺鐵海線的雙軌高架化。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，那主席魯明哲委員最重視的交通建設是什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：當然機捷的號誌系統是魯委員非常關心的，另外針對機捷延伸到中壢車站的部分，魯委員也相當關心，還有桃園的綠線延伸到中壢車站，當然現在桃園在進行鐵路地下化的工程，每一項魯委員都非常地關心。"],["蔡委員其昌：主席，對嗎？"],["主席：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，好，謝謝，因為我不知道你……我沒有太關注你關心什麼，但我的部分是對，所以我也請教一下看你的部分對不對。好，這個就是做一個部長要傾聽立法院，對的事情，不論他什麼顏色，該做的事情，因為交通建設沒有顏色，該做的事情就是要去做，而每一個委員在他的轄區的領域當中，他一定對一些特別事項……你要去關心。","第三個要傾聽民意，未來會有很多交通建設跟交通政策的提出，它會跟人民直接相關，如果交通部沒有認真去傾聽民意，這個部長得不到民眾的支持，所以這個叫做認真傾聽。接下來你就要做事了，就是你傾聽完之後你就要做事，重大的交通建設進度到哪裡、該怎麼進行，我想這些就是部長要帶領著所有交通部的團隊去做的，這個是我看到你沉重壓力，我給你的8個字的祝福。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝。"],["蔡委員其昌：我希望這8個字能夠讓你當一個專業的部長，考驗才剛開始。接下來我要來問一下，部長，我想你也知道對於行人地獄，本席長期以來都一直非常關心，這個惡名何時可以移除？最近臺中又發生一個東海大學的女同學，這麼青春年華的歲月，走在斑馬線上面，竟然被公車輾斃，我看了他媽媽的一些發言，包括昨天的講話，我其實非常難過，而且剛好也是我東海大學的學妹，媽媽說希望他女兒的犧牲能夠有意義，媽媽有大愛，說實在話我覺得很感動。但是我們站在立法委員監督的立場，本席還是必須要把我的一些看法跟我們目前的一些作為，我們還是要做一些檢討，而這個檢討一定要針對原因，針對一些數據。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["蔡委員其昌：本席列了幾個，你看看這個數據，本席在今年5月就講過，臺中市的傷亡相對於其他縣市來講，我們算是最嚴重的，特別在直轄市裡面，你看各縣市113年1到6月30日，到6月之前，臺中市的死亡人數是28人，比較去年同期還增加了7人。交通部跟內政部跟地方政府來合作，要盤點所謂優先改善的路口，包括內政部本席也提了，內政部也編了預算，中央重視，所以也編了預算來改善這些危險路口。這些路口要跟地方政府來配合，中央編了錢，也有了政策，希望把行人地獄解決，但是你看臺中市政府63處只改了4處，進度實在是緩慢，而且比起其他縣市，你看我們落後那麼多，臺中市到8月僅改善4處，是直轄市最低的。你再來看看，以10萬人死傷人數來統計，你看臺中市3,405，這個也是難看的數字，所以本席在上一次，就是在今年5月的質詢的時候我就講了，當時的李部長跟交通部的同仁告訴本席，說會督促臺中市政府，請臺中市政府提出檢討報告。我們看一下檢討報告是什麼，檢討報告叫用路人普遍不守法，也就是行人的問題啦！不是市政府改善這些問題；再來，人口數持續成長，機動車輛持續增加，所以基本上，我們這個市政府是放牛班的市政府，這樣的狀況，所以再發生了這次不幸的事件，就讓本席覺得交通部對於放牛班的學生不能只是……上次本席還拜託你們多多幫忙臺中市政府、多多協助臺中市政府，讓放牛班的學生可不可以好一點，但是我看光鼓勵、支持、幫助是不夠的，臺中市還是一樣依然故我，所以臺中市市民行的安全，像這些學童走斑馬線還遇到這樣的問題，表示這個放牛班學生不受教嘛！部長，除了今年5月我講的協助、幫助之外，交通部對於……不只臺中市，當然臺中最嚴重，就其他相對改善慢、置之不理、對於行人用路安全投入的資源過少、關注度過少的這些縣市政府，要不要採取一些比較強硬一點的手段或者處分型的手段？不然放牛班的孩子整天放著數字在那裡，本席叫你們去問，問回來還是這些都是別人的問題，市政府沒有任何改善作為。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，一方面當然像您所交代的，我們會主動協助臺中市政府在交通安全上面改善；針對成效比較不好的一些縣市，一方面在網路上我們會公布數字，讓縣市政府有壓力，二方面其實行政院也有道安工作會報，我們會請他們來做專案報告。昨天確實臺中市政府已經來行政院做過專案報告了，在會報的過程要說明他們到底未來要怎麼樣改善臺中市的交通，管考的部分，我們會繼續嚴格來督促。"],["蔡委員其昌：都是活生生的人命，特別像這種十幾、二十歲的孩子遇到這種不幸，我相信這個不分朝野、不分政黨，大家其實都很難過，所以我們能夠做的是怎麼在政策督促、要求，政府的角色是什麼？政府的角色怎麼去要求這些民間客運公司、如何營造一個安全的環境，其實都是我們責無旁貸的事情。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：一起加油，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蔡其昌委員。","接下來有請李昆澤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":388,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-2","speakers":["魯明哲","蔡其昌","李昆澤","許智傑","何欣純","廖先翔","萬美玲","林沛祥","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","邱若華","游顥","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","黃國昌","盧縣一","林月琴","洪申翰","牛煦庭","黃健豪","羅智強","蔡易餘","葉元之","徐欣瑩","林國成","劉建國","傅崐萁"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2024-09-26"],"gazette_id":"1137601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137601_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、內政部、內政部警政署及內政部國土管理署就「行人交通安全改善\n成效暨道路見警率對於道安事故防範效益與警力配置」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通\n部部長陳世凱就「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢；三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱及國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微就「臺鐵公司化執行情\n況、獎敘規範暨軌道月台旅客安全規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137601_00018"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}