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10:06:19","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。【第一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n\n【9月30日、10月2日及3日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":282,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（9時57分）主席，請政次和署長。"],["主席：請政次跟署長。"],["董次長建宏：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：署長好、政次好，今天我們所修的法是要提供法律上的優惠，不是針對個人，而是針對大眾，如果是因為個人，我們要來修這個法，我覺得有一點講不過去。今天我們要審都市更新條例有關容積率的管制，請問已經取得建照的，不管是還沒蓋好的、蓋好的還是準備要蓋的，是不是都可以突破現在的容積率上限？我們是要鼓勵老房子都更，上一次修法是在110年，不過，後來發現有很多問題，我們才會想說要再來修這個法，政次，你認為要怎麼做比較好？還是署長你要回答一下？"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，這部分主要是過去訂這個法律的時候，現在原容的獎勵都一樣、都沒有變，就是沒有突破原來原容30%的容獎，它是適用，因為過去修法的時候，規定容積率訂定之前，房子就應該已經蓋好了才可以適用，但是過去從實際發照到蓋好中間有一個過程，有的在過程中，容積率實施的時候房子還沒蓋好，造成後來他們事實上是適用舊法規，沒辦法申請容積獎勵，我們希望把這個納入，說這確實情有可原，因為蓋大樓的時候有時候不一定那麼順利。"],["王委員美惠：對啦，有的是去申請執照了，但還沒蓋。"],["吳署長欣修：就是還沒蓋好啦。"],["王委員美惠：還沒蓋好，就是適用那個容積率嘛，是不是這樣？"],["吳署長欣修：是，所以他沒辦法適用這個獎勵，老實說比較不公平。第二、對他們來說，因為這樣所以沒辦法適用原容的時候，就一個制度來說，的確會有兩種不同標準的問題，所以地方政府老實說過去也覺得有一點困擾，也希望我們可以重新調整，才有這次修法的作法出來。"],["王委員美惠：我覺得從110年開始，地方都有反映這個問題，中央現在要修這個法，就是有聽到地方的聲音，如何讓老房子可以適用我們未來修的法，不然，說實在的有的人就是搞不清楚到底可以適用還是不能適用。政次最近有去嘉義市，署長對嘉義市也很了解，剛剛本席坐在那邊有聽到政次在說都更對雙北的重要性，署長也說對南部、對嘉義市的危樓很重要，嘉義市的危樓有多少，你知道嗎？署長還是政次回答一下？"],["吳署長欣修：嘉義市可以適用的大樓很少，差不多八十幾棟而已，但是……"],["王委員美惠：危樓呢？"],["吳署長欣修：但是危樓，三十年以上的應該很多。"],["王委員美惠：對！"],["吳署長欣修：三十年以上應該是有夠多，因為我們嘉義市也是老城市了，有的房子甚至是日本時代開始就有了……"],["董次長建宏：像東區那邊都是。"],["吳署長欣修：所以這裡數量應該是非常地大。"],["王委員美惠：本席要跟你們說的是，因為每一個地方不同，像我們嘉義市，現在的老房子、危樓很多，就像百姓說的：我也想要都更，不過我的資格不符合，也不知道要怎麼去都更。如果他們想要都更，但仍然沒辦法達成的時候，要如何去協助他呢？署長，你是如何想的？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實我們每一年都有補助地方政府都更跟危老輔導團的部分；第二個，其實過去大家對於透天會認為透天就是時間到了再改建，但是對有些人來說，可能因為收入也比較不夠，蓋新房子有需要貸款，還是看有沒有辦法減免相關的稅，這部分在危老裡面其實都有提供，只是過去在地方政府實施上，可能他們印象都比較是針對大樓，比較不會去想到透天，所以這點確實是我們後續輔導團可以來加強做說明的。"],["王委員美惠：我覺得這個說明要加強一下。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["王委員美惠：你看嘉義市危老申請重建的有二十幾件，我們的都更有兩件核准的。署長跟次長，你認為都更公辦的住宅會比普通建商賣得貴還是便宜？請你們回答一下。"],["吳署長欣修：應該是比較貴啦！"],["王委員美惠：為什麼會比較貴？"],["吳署長欣修：第一個主要的原因我要向您報告，因為它主要的基地久了，地點都不錯，所以它會有……"],["王委員美惠：但是他的地和處理的部分都是公家機關的欸！"],["吳署長欣修：你是說公辦都更的部分嗎？"],["王委員美惠：對！你向我回答的，讓我有一點……"],["吳署長欣修：沒有，所以委員剛才說的，譬如說在嘉義我們有兩件公辦都更。"],["王委員美惠：對！"],["吳署長欣修：這個部分，我跟委員報告啦……"],["王委員美惠：現在先報告這件目前正在蓋的，因為本席在我們的服務處，包括助理接到的電話也好，還是我本身手機接到的也好，他們都會覺得自己真的想不到，公辦都更應該是有政府介入，地是政府的嘛！未來要興建、要賣的時候應該會比普通建商……"],["吳署長欣修：我瞭解你說的意思。"],["王委員美惠：更便宜嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：是啦！公辦都更理論上應該是這樣，沒有錯。"],["王委員美惠：是理論上，事實上就不是這樣啊！"],["吳署長欣修：我瞭解。"],["王委員美惠：所以我身為嘉義市的立委，這麼多人來問我時，我也無法回答。怎麼會這樣呢？"],["吳署長欣修：瞭解。"],["王委員美惠：因為一般你們會公辦都更，就是我們房子的價格不能再更高了嘛！不過你要知道，包括嘉義市、彰化、苗栗在內，第一個公辦都更的案件就是在嘉義市！署長，這是很大的問題，我們希望地方更進步、地方可以更好，我也認同你剛才說的，舊的地點都在比較熱鬧的地方、在主要道路上，但畢竟地是公家的，價錢不應該這樣！"],["吳署長欣修：瞭解。"],["王委員美惠：因為時間快到了……"],["吳署長欣修：我也跟他們來瞭解一下。"],["王委員美惠：我私底下還有很多問題，希望跟署長及次長來探討一下，可以讓地方發展得更好，以上。"],["董次長建宏：謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：好，感謝委員。"],["主席：我們請黃捷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","speakers":["張宏陸","李彥秀","王鴻薇","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","丁學忠","王美惠","黃捷","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","張智倫","李坤城","黃健豪","徐巧芯","羅智強","張啓楷","邱志偉","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王鴻薇等\n20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市\n更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1137801_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}