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«都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案》案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"},{"start":140.953,"end":164.519,"text":"還有檢探齊頭併勁我們就不要只有理想沒有務實那這一塊我想這一塊特別在這邊我們在推動的過程當中本來就非常務實因為如果民間建築沒有辦法跟進的話其實反而對於淨林碳排的推動反而這樣子的寓意良好啊會變成是好像打水漂我想這樣反而不好但是怎麼樣處理比較好是不是讓署長跟那就不用了"},{"start":166.459,"end":182.828,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團"},{"start":183.829,"end":212.095,"text":"近期央行出重拳打房我想部長您都應該知道嘛對不是央行出重拳打房這個部分可能要改成中央銀行在打草房不是打房打房的話就太嚴重了那就是央行有一些策略嘛他策略出來以後整個房價不斷的下跌那當然我們也認同要打草房這點本席也要這個立場要明確"},{"start":212.995,"end":216.777,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":232.386,"end":261.46,"text":"建商他不願意投入只要檢答就好報告委員您的觀察非常的正確我們這次提出65條之一的修正案是叫改善容積率跟原來一樣跟現在的房價其實完全沒有正相關但是我指的是現在央行他的這樣的新的政策出來之後會不會影響到未來的危老重建或是都更重建"},{"start":262.928,"end":263.609,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":284.377,"end":284.717,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"},{"start":314.309,"end":320.654,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案。"},{"start":328.669,"end":337.675,"text":"我知道到明年的時候那個臺灣會進入超高齡但是可能是五分之一左右吧對剛剛我聽到署長講快要接近20%那只要超過到達20%就是我們所謂的會進入超高齡社會那所以現在超高齡社會本席也想請教部長我們部裡面有沒有在統計我們全國的村長里長村里長"},{"start":357.429,"end":365.195,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具《都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案》案。第三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具《都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具《都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":384.531,"end":391.875,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案〉案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具〈都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":411.647,"end":421.175,"text":"他們沒有保險這一塊我們中央是不是可以想辦法怎麼樣子立法或修法能夠讓他們有這個保障報告委員李長的部分李長已經有了我知道那林長是由縣市地方政府"},{"start":430.343,"end":449.064,"text":"由縣市地方政府來派任或者是拜託但是縣市地方政府如果會因為中央修法而跟著一起修法來保障他們我們願意樂觀其成也來幫忙他但是您剛所提到的一警一消或甚至民防的話各有不同的單位譬如說民防的話是由警察單位來處理"},{"start":449.585,"end":459.228,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員王鴻薇等17人擬具第"},{"start":478.275,"end":504.205,"text":"本席非常開心聽到部長這樣講有很多我們剛剛講的就是年齡過高保險公司不願意保險的這一塊能夠協助那您有提到他是榮譽性還是實質性其實您有時候可以到地方看看很多他80歲80幾歲他還非常的活躍而且身體非常健朗而且他長期協助地方事務所以"},{"start":505.686,"end":520.619,"text":"希望我們這一個部分中央能夠來修法或立法來保障他們讓這些高齡的志工他不會面臨保險公司不願意承擔保險的風險這個應該是全國很多地方大家共同的心聲"},{"start":520.939,"end":522.981,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具《都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":539.918,"end":552.366,"text":"我知道您一定會提縣市政府或地方鄉鎮公所他們要與法有據而且要有法律來協助他們讓他們也能夠執行所以剛剛您有承諾我本席非常開心謝謝好謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:15:22 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10:24:39","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。【第一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n\n【9月30日、10月2日及3日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":360,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（10時15分）謝謝主席，本席有請劉部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：召委你好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長好。本席想首先請教你，淨零碳排是國際的趨勢，您知不知道什麼是綠色溢價？"],["劉部長世芳：我們尊重環境部的說法，綠色溢價比較窄化來講，應該是指碳權交易的部分吧！但是我不是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：您的認知是這樣？"],["劉部長世芳：對，我不是那麼清楚……"],["徐委員欣瑩：就是從現行定義的比較骯髒的碳排技術，轉換到零碳排的過程……"],["劉部長世芳：或者是淨零碳排。"],["徐委員欣瑩：要多花一些成本，這些多出來的成本，我們就稱為綠色溢價。"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長，接下來……"],["劉部長世芳：但是要由誰吸收，這個部分恐怕要很多的討論空間。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒錯，所以這一塊接下來就要麻煩您也特別能夠關注，因為我們內政部有推動淨零建築轉型推動策略。"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以明年就要強制民間落實淨零建築……"],["劉部長世芳：不是，我想跟委員報告一下，目前我們的推動進度都是以公務機關為主，我們現在就是只要……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以民間沒有？"],["劉部長世芳：還沒有，民間是採取鼓勵的，就是我們對於所謂新的、要建構的建築物，只要是公務機關的話，它就要符合我們內政部所要求的這些淨零碳排的方向，但對於民間建築的話，是新的部分我們會用鼓勵，但是也會跟相關的建投公會或者是土木技師公會來討論，沒有那麼快，我想這樣子反而不好，會造成所謂的綠色通膨。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，民間是逐步嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：是，逐步，而且先從鼓勵開始。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那從鼓勵開始，也要請部長要注重，在整個淨零建築的工法跟材料價格上，可能會因為用淨零建築而上漲這一塊，當然你已經提到是逐步鼓勵，所以我在這邊就特別講，我們希望注重成本的控管。"],["劉部長世芳：當然。"],["徐委員欣瑩：還有減碳齊頭並進。"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我們就不要只有理想，沒有務實，我想這一塊特別在這邊……"],["劉部長世芳：我們在推動的過程當中本來就非常務實，因為如果民間建築沒有辦法跟進的話，其實對於淨零碳排的推動，反而會變成寓意良好，卻好像打水漂，我想這樣反而不好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，非常好。"],["劉部長世芳：但是怎麼樣處理比較好，我是不是讓署長跟……"],["徐委員欣瑩：那就不用了，因為我時間有限，只要大家有共識就可以。","其次，我們非常肯定這一次都市更新條例第六十五條的修法是讓民眾受惠，因為我們也看到了行政院的版本，但是近期央行出重拳打房，我想部長您應該知道嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：不是，「央行出重拳打房」這個部分可能要改成中央銀行在打炒房，不是打房，打房的話就太嚴重了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，那就是央行有一些策略嘛！它策略出來以後，整個房價不斷地下跌，當然，我們也認同要打炒房，這點本席立場也要明確，很多業界人士還有大家都認為臺灣房市的新拐點可能已經浮現，所謂新拐點就是不斷的房價下跌會不會影響到剛剛很多委員提的，不管危老重建還是都更重建，會不會讓建商不願意投入？只要簡答就好，您覺得這個情況如何？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，您的觀察非常正確，我們這次提出第六十五條的修正案是叫改善容積率，跟原來一樣……"],["徐委員欣瑩：針對我的問題答一下好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：跟現在的房價其實完全沒有正相關。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，但是我指的是現在央行這樣新的政策出來之後，會不會影響到未來的危老重建或是都更重建？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，因為它所限制的資金的部分是不含都更、危老的，所以都更、危老的推動在銀行的融資是不影響的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我指的是整體房價，我剛剛有講，整體房價現在不斷地下跌……"],["吳署長欣修：是，跟委員報告……"],["徐委員欣瑩：那建商會不會卻步？現在因為整個房價低，它就不投入，我只是簡單……"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，因為都更的計價會涉及到住戶的權利跟當時的土地估價，跟建築成本的反映……"],["徐委員欣瑩：還有整體房價會下跌嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：對都更來講，其實一般來講衝擊很小，因為它跟房價的連動性本來一般就不高。"],["徐委員欣瑩：如果我們部裡面跟我們署長這樣，我們就是反正大家這樣講，我們希望這不要影響到。","接著第三點，本席想請教部長，社區現在……我們應該這樣講，我們目前65歲以上人口所占比例大概多少，部長知道嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我知道到明年的時候臺灣會進入超高齡社會，但是可能是五分之一左右。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，剛剛我聽到署長講，快要接近20%。只要超過、到達20%就是所謂的會進入超高齡社會，所以現在超高齡社會，本席也想請教部長，我們部裡面有沒有在統計，我們全國的村里長80歲以上的有幾位？沒有統計對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：抱歉，沒有統計80歲。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那更不用講我們的鄰長，我們全國的鄰長在80歲以上的有幾位？本席希望說，因為里鄰長或村鄰長，我們還是要掌握一下他們年齡的情況。接著本席要講的是說，現在這些高齡的鄰長，他們沒有保險，但是他們卻在協助很多的地方事務，另外，臺灣很多民眾都熱心公益，長期擔任村里鄰的環保清潔志工、愛心志工、巡守隊，甚至義警、義消這些執勤服務，有的年齡高、有的年齡低，他們沒有保險，關於這一塊，中央是不是可以想辦法，怎麼樣立法或修法，能夠讓他們有這個保障？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，里長的部分，在我們的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：里長已經有了，我知道。"],["劉部長世芳：鄰長是由縣市地方政府……"],["徐委員欣瑩：鄰長，還有一些志工……"],["劉部長世芳：由縣市地方政府來派任或者是拜託，但是縣市地方政府如果因為中央修法而跟著一起修法來保障他們，我們願意樂觀其成，也來幫忙他們，但是您剛剛所提到的義警、義消甚至民防，各有不同的單位，譬如說民防是由警察單位來處理，義消是由消防單位來處理……"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK。"],["劉部長世芳：這部分如果是因為年齡超高，第一件事情，我們就會先討論他是否安全，他如果去執行義消、義警的工作是否安全，但他如果只是一個榮譽性的角色，大概就比較不會有您所提到的保險上的顧慮，但是全面的來執行，看他們勤務上面會不會碰到、需要保險，我們願意檢討改進。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好、非常好，本席非常開心聽到部長這樣講。我們剛剛講的，有很多人年齡過高，保險公司不願意保險的這一塊能夠協助，您有提到他是榮譽性還是實質性，其實您有時候可以到地方看看，很多八十歲、八十幾歲還非常的活躍，而且身體非常健朗，長期協助地方事務，希望中央能夠修法或立法來保障他們，讓這些高齡的志工不會面臨保險公司不願意承擔保險的風險，這個應該是全國很多地方大家共同的心聲。"],["劉部長世芳：委員，我想您講的應該是屬於團體或是社會保險的方式，如果針對個人，當然商業保險不會接受，但是真的在執勤方面有碰到什麼狀況的話，我想縣市地方政府甚至鄉鎮公所或者中央政府應該負擔一部分的責任。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我知道你一定會提縣市政府或地方鄉鎮公所，他們要於法有據，而且要有法律來協助他們，讓他們也能夠執行，所以剛剛您有承諾，本席非常開心，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","speakers":["張宏陸","李彥秀","王鴻薇","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","丁學忠","王美惠","黃捷","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","張智倫","李坤城","黃健豪","徐巧芯","羅智強","張啓楷","邱志偉","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王鴻薇等\n20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市\n更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1137801_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}