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謝謝主席 請李主委請李主委主委 先問一下那個每個月都會問 高通他的新的承諾跟這個臺灣企業支持這些的方案目前之前狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":54.482,"end":76.446,"text":"和解方案都有照和解條件在進行那去年也已經這個時間到來有沒有打折扣或者執行不力都有照這個規約進行都有還有幾年要執行執行的時間5年已經執行完畢而且我們把所有這個和解方案執行的結果那評估都已經上網公告"},{"start":77.153,"end":95.945,"text":"所以對他們的相關的承諾或者這個之前相關的賠償你們都可以接受他目前所做的最後的結果都照和解條件在進行後面還有沒有那這些和解條件有些是延續性的會繼續去處理"},{"start":98.061,"end":124.252,"text":"還有哪些需要去從和解條件再去跟我們說明他其實兩個方案一個是就是跟業者的授權的關係一個是這個增進臺灣的一些相關的這個科技的發展那目前在持續進行的比如說一些創新競賽還有跟學校的一些合作這些方案都是他們承諾嘛是那現在你知道他要他要合併什麼他要購併人家公司你知道嗎"},{"start":127.759,"end":140.225,"text":"有看到這個新聞 詳細情形你應該了解他過病當然會對他承諾會不會造成影響啊他過病的機能非常大喔是 這個我們會注意七百多億啦不是代表內 美金內"},{"start":142.063,"end":142.384,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":163.527,"end":166.228,"text":"兩家外送平台的市場界定你完成了嗎?"},{"start":194.401,"end":220.475,"text":"我們過去是界定它的那個市場界定是外送餐飲平台那現在市場怎麼界定我們還在評估當中一直評估評估很久那這個要整個資料齊備整個資料齊備以後我們各界關切的這些議題會同感來處理那時間點能不能說一下市場界定什麼時候完成總不能無限期啊總要有個時間表啊主委市場界定有那麼困難嗎"},{"start":223.9,"end":248.511,"text":"這個跟委員說明一下我們的程序是這樣子齁文件齊備之後進入委員會去討論市場界定也是委員會討論的一環我們目前請高通公司抱歉 請那個輔本大補件的期間是11月8號那我們會看他補件的情形10月8號你才會正式立案欸 對不對應該是備齊了 備齊了才會正式受理"},{"start":252.593,"end":253.554,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員"},{"start":281.379,"end":307.217,"text":"這個比較大的案件通常...我知道啦,這是看...當然這是也不能無限期啊然後你四戰後,結合後的四戰率會不會超過五成?結合後的四戰率會,會超過你看喔,你看過去啊,你處理這個購避難的結果只要大概五成,你大概都會禁止結合你看一下資料只要結合後四戰率超過五成,你大概就是禁止"},{"start":308.994,"end":317.503,"text":"4層以下你大概也都會有條件通過你從結果論來看那你這個結合之後你們4戰力戰多少應該有8層以上這樣你看這個結果會成不成"},{"start":323.393,"end":349.6,"text":"這還要委員會討論我現在沒有辦法我看你們過去處理的結果來看嘛過去喔你只要有50%你就是禁止結合啦過去結合以後喔如果他市場率很集中我們在審議的時候會非常的這個謹慎另外企業運用AI收集消費者資訊並進行這個差別取價這部分會影響相關的法規這你們要注意一下這是我們會注意"},{"start":350.4,"end":370.558,"text":"B to B 你們用20條第二款,那B to C的部分,您這個要不要涉及修法,可能自己要考慮一下。主委,您知道嗎?我知道,我知道。你20條在裡面,你那個B to B大概可以來處理,但是B to C的部分呢,這個差別待遇你沒有辦法適用啊。"},{"start":371.638,"end":373.479,"text":"人工智慧基本法草案在立法過程中有沒有問公平會的意見?"},{"start":401.391,"end":404.913,"text":"人工智慧基本法定出來之後公平會可能會變成消費者進行個人化的定價就帶來風險"},{"start":433.281,"end":438.623,"text":"AI的發展跟各部會的法規的協調調和是一個非常重要的要去關注的。這17條的部分你要怎麼處理?你要去跟主管機關反映"},{"start":460.992,"end":488.744,"text":"現在就是說以目前的狀態公平法的規範它如果涉及到競爭的議題目前可以處理那當然細部有沒有不足的地方我們再來評估是不是可以針對這部分你提一個書面報告給我是一個月之內好的好不好那回到剛才你這個跨國企業集合案我看你時間都沒有一個時間表然後這個每次問你還在收集資料還在提供資料"},{"start":490.527,"end":490.647,"text":"邱志偉"},{"start":510.481,"end":536.602,"text":"這個案主管機關審查的時間法律上是有規定的就是30天文件期備30天可是補件資料那個補件的時間要看各案件的不同文件期備的準備期你沒有限制啊就現在你還沒有立案嘛因為每個案件的情況不一樣我要遵守這個發言人的這個時間齁時間到我就要遵守這個我當然知道我要以身作則"}]},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:06:11 - 11:15:13","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":619,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時6分）謝謝主席，請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["邱委員志偉：主委，先問一下，每個會期都會問，高通的行為承諾跟臺灣企業支持的這些方案，目前執行的狀況怎麼樣？"],["李主任委員鎂：和解方案都有照和解條件進行，去年時間也已經到了……"],["邱委員志偉：有沒有打折扣或者執行不力？"],["李主任委員鎂：都有照契約進行。"],["邱委員志偉：還有幾年要執行？"],["李主任委員鎂：執行的時間五年已經執行完畢，而且我們把所有和解方案執行的結果、評估都已經上網公告。"],["邱委員志偉：所以對它們相關的承諾，或者之前相關的賠償，你們都可以接受它們目前所做最後的結果？"],["李主任委員鎂：都照和解條件在進行。"],["邱委員志偉：後面還有沒有？"],["李主任委員鎂：這些和解條件有一些是延續性的會繼續處理。"],["邱委員志偉：還有哪些需要從和解條件再去著墨？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，它其實有兩個方案，一個是跟業者的授權關係，一個是增進臺灣一些相關科技的發展，目前在持續進行的，譬如說一些創新競賽，還有跟學校的一些合作都有在進行。"],["邱委員志偉：這些方案都是他們承諾嘛？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你知道它現在要合併什麼？它要購併一家公司，你知道嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：有看到這個新聞，詳細情形……"],["邱委員志偉：你應該了解它購併對它的承諾會不會造成影響啊！它購併的金額非常大喔！"],["李主任委員鎂：是，這個我們會注意。"],["邱委員志偉：七百多億不是臺幣，是美金！七百多億要購併，如果是自願還是非自願，你要了解，會不會影響到它之後承諾履行的能力，會不會？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為現在我們還沒有看到這個結合申報的案件，那我們會注意委員提到的這些事情。"],["邱委員志偉：不是啦！那個跟我們無關啦！它是要購併英特爾，我是說它去購併對它公司的營運或對執行我們的相關承諾會不會受影響？"],["李主任委員鎂：英特爾！現在我的了解是它們應該還在評估當中啦！"],["邱委員志偉：對啦！如果是真的成案會不會對我們執行能力造成影響？"],["李主任委員鎂：這到時候我們會去做一些評估。"],["邱委員志偉：好，我們繼續看一下，兩家外送平臺的市場界定你完成了嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們過去是市場界定是外送餐飲平臺，現在市場怎麼界定，我們還在評估當中。"],["邱委員志偉：一直評估，評估很久！時間點要抓出來啦！"],["李主任委員鎂：這個要等資料齊備……"],["邱委員志偉：什麼？"],["李主任委員鎂：整個資料齊備以後，我們對各界關切的這些議題會通盤來處理。"],["邱委員志偉：時間點能不能說一下？市場界定什麼時候完成？總不能無限期啊！總要有個時間表，主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：是、是。"],["邱委員志偉：市場界定有那麼困難嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明一下，我們的程序是文件齊備之後進入委員會去討論，市場界定也是委員會討論的一環。"],["邱委員志偉：那個我都知道，剛剛已經很多人問了，你都答了，我就直接問你時間點，大概多久會完成市場界定？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們目前請foodpanda補件的期間是11月8號，會看它補件的情形……"],["邱委員志偉：所以11月8號你才會正式立案，對不對？如果到時候是11月8號補件完成才正式立案嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：應該是備齊了才會正式受理。"],["邱委員志偉：5月送案，正式立案要等半年，這個行政效率要檢討一下。"],["李主任委員鎂：受理。"],["邱委員志偉：資料蒐集得怎麼樣，你可以主動，不能太被動，我提醒你們一下。"],["李主任委員鎂：因為針對一些資料我們有提出疑問，譬如說各界關切的跟外送員等等各方面，它的意見是什麼，我們要請它回應。"],["邱委員志偉：你可以主動調查，你也可以被動等它提供，如果是我，我就限定時間，一定要處理好，跟它說你資料要提供給我，不能讓它一直拖、拖、拖、拖、拖。"],["李主任委員鎂：這個比較大的案件通常都是……"],["邱委員志偉：我知道，這個跨國的當然……但是也不能無限期啊！然後結合後的市占率會不會超過五成？"],["李主任委員鎂：結合後的市占率會超過，因為是第一大併第二大。"],["邱委員志偉：你看一下過去處理購併案的結果，只要是五成，你大概都會禁止結合，你看一下資料，只要結合後市占率超過五成，你大概就是禁止；四成以下，你大概也都會有條件通過，這是從結果論來看。那這兩家結合之後，市占率占多少？"],["李主任委員鎂：應該有八成以上。"],["邱委員志偉：喔！這樣你看這個結果，會不會併購成功？"],["李主任委員鎂：這還要經委員會討論，我現在沒有辦法……"],["邱委員志偉：沒有啦，以你們過去處理的結果來看嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：過去……"],["邱委員志偉：只要有50%，你就是禁止結合，這個有80%……"],["李主任委員鎂：就是結合以後如果它的市場率很集中，我們在審議的時候會非常地謹慎。"],["邱委員志偉：對，你們要小心。","另外，有關企業運用AI蒐集消費者資訊並進行差別取價，這個部分會影響相關的法規，你們要注意一下。"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我們會注意。"],["邱委員志偉：B2B的部分，你們用第二十條第二款；B2C的部分要不要涉及修法？可能你們自己要考慮一下，主委，你知道我的意思嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我知道。"],["邱委員志偉：第二十條第二款大概可以來處理B2B的部分，但是B2C的部分，這個差別待遇你沒有辦法適用，大家都已經提供給你可能會發生的問題。"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會看看競爭面的影響，最後還是回到競爭面。"],["邱委員志偉：你要先瞭解人工智慧基本法第十一條，相關規定是不是可以符合你的業務、不會造成影響？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，這個我們有小組在討論。"],["邱委員志偉：你有反映過嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：有，公平會有一個AI專案小組。"],["邱委員志偉：人工智慧基本法草案在立法過程中有沒有問公平會的意見？"],["李主任委員鎂：都有跨部會協商。"],["邱委員志偉：你們有參加嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：在院裡面有一個AI的相關法案，都有參與。"],["邱委員志偉：你本身瞭解嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：有參與。"],["邱委員志偉：你瞭解，那你要表示意見啊！B2B有，但是B2C的部分呢？沒有辦法規範，所以我提出這個問題，跨部會的橫向聯繫很重要。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["邱委員志偉：人工智慧基本法訂出來之後，公平會可能會變成關注消費者進行個人化的定價所帶來的風險，對不對？所以你要注意。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["邱委員志偉：有關這個部分，你有什麼看法？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想有關AI的發展，跟各部會法規的協調、調合，是一個非常重要要去關注的……"],["邱委員志偉：我知道，但是第十七條的部分你要怎麼處理嘛？你要去跟主管機關反映啊！"],["李主任委員鎂：以目前公平法的規範，它如果涉及到競爭的議題，目前可以處理，當然細部有沒有不足的地方，我們再來評估。"],["邱委員志偉：我點出這個問題就是希望你提早因應，是不是可以針對這部分提一個書面報告給我？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["邱委員志偉：一個月之內，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：好的。"],["邱委員志偉：回到剛才的議題，有關這個跨國企業結合案，我看你都沒有一個時間表，然後每次問你都說還在蒐集資料、還在提供資料，針對跨國企業的結合案，你能夠怎麼樣把審查效率提升？其他國家有很多的作法給你參考，你要明確化，時程也要訂得很清楚，我們才能監督。否則每次來，你就說還在蒐集資料、還在蒐集資料。"],["李主任委員鎂：主管機關審查相關案件的時間，法律上是有規定的，就是30天，文件齊備30天，可是補件資料……"],["邱委員志偉：但是文件齊備的準備期，你沒有限制啊！"],["李主任委員鎂：補件的時間要看各案件的不同……"],["邱委員志偉：文件齊備的準備期，你沒有限制，現在你還沒有立案，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為每個案件的情況不一樣。"],["邱委員志偉：我要遵守發言時間，時間到，我就要遵守，我當召委要以身作則。"],["主席：現在請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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