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陳主委"},{"start":23.257,"end":47.488,"text":"本來定了要去花蓮因為要支持花蓮的觀光可是颱風一來最後還是必須忍痛的割愛所以也確實我覺得在我們花東地區的現在的交通的狀況已經變成迫在眉睫的事情所以也請主委因為我看你在這個我們國土法裡面你也有很多的這個建議更對其他的部會"},{"start":53.872,"end":68.726,"text":"請發揮協調或體察民意的精神趕快反應另外我要跟主委請教的是在上個會期我曾經針對警政署"},{"start":74.591,"end":93.119,"text":"警用的防彈衣的採購採購下來大概有四分之一不堪使用必須要退回給廠商請他重新的再補正結果這個警用的背心廠商事實上從102年開始他陸陸續續因為他的採購劣跡斑斑"},{"start":102.543,"end":128.523,"text":"被列為黑名單的次數達7次之多但是他照樣他一旦解除黑名單之後他照樣可以去投標所以這個廠商包括他的兒子也成立一家廠商一直都常常的來標我們的僅用防彈背心然後每次都被踢爆之後然後他再來做補正"},{"start":130.184,"end":157.993,"text":"這樣的事情對於我們第一線的警察基層警察同仁情何以堪啊這個房貸背心是保命用的結果這樣的黑心廠商卻可以一而再再而三的去得標不但他去得標他兒子開的公司也去得標所以在這裡啊我要請我們公共工程委員會針對我們政府採購法必須去防堵這樣的弊端"},{"start":159.213,"end":176.363,"text":"主委你知道嗎我們去調查了因為呢我們到現在為止你雖然有拒絕往來名單可是即便他出包他過一段時間後也許他過一年過兩年甚至他找他的親戚再成立一家公司他照樣可以得標"},{"start":177.384,"end":196.611,"text":"我們現在有一些廠商被列為拒絕往來戶最高都超過60件有66件的64件的57件的他怕嗎他不怕因為等到他回來解除了他的這個黑名單限制之後他又是好漢一個繼續來投標"},{"start":199.332,"end":214.464,"text":"那所以我在這邊其實我已經提出修法我認為我們政府採購法裡面應該要有所謂的刪證條款也就是當你一而再再而三的被作為拒絕往來戶的時候你應該有一個懲罰性的條這個規定永久列為拒絕往來戶"},{"start":222.737,"end":230.859,"text":"這些廠商才會乖啊才會害怕啊你看連僅用的防彈背心他都可以這樣惡搞我告訴你啊我們去提出這樣的相關的問題的時候警察署竟然告訴我沒關係啦我們發現啦這麼多一千四百多片喔這些防彈背心這個凹陷板我們呢要求廠商完成回收"},{"start":249.002,"end":258.253,"text":"回收就好然後告訴你因為我們按照法裡面也沒有說永久性不准他再來標所以他還可以再來標所以主委可不可以請我們公共工程委員會認真的去思考檢討這個黑名單"},{"start":268.885,"end":292.885,"text":"可不可以不然的話這些黑名單一年三年之後他又來標了我可以告訴你喔如果你不改的話我就給你追蹤這些喔這種影響我們警察基層第一線生命的你再讓他標試試看所以主委可不可以我們工程委員會正本清源之道從政府採購法裡面去修法"},{"start":294.371,"end":317.529,"text":"就在現有的法令裡面我們會就針對這個防彈背信這些案除了停權者之外已經有違法判刑的這些個人或他相關的公司我們會專案去清查提醒各主辦機關你這樣個案那這是被我抓出來沒被我抓出來的就是這些共同的名稱"},{"start":318.49,"end":319.07,"text":"對,我現在就是請你們能夠檢討修法"},{"start":334.218,"end":350.445,"text":"好這個修法我們來研究好不好來檢討你可以做一個門檻嗎那種惡性重大的不要再讓他有這種僥倖的機會還有其他也似乎也應該要有一些修正的必要我們一併來討論絕對不是只有警用背心還有好多其他的"},{"start":350.765,"end":350.925,"text":"王鴻薇"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:39:06.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:39:06.666000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我請陳金德陳主委。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-30T12:39:06.666000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:39:11.563750+08:00","text":"請陳主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2024-09-30T12:39:11.563750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:39:16.461500+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:39:16.461500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:39:21.359250+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:39:21.359250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:39:26.257000+08:00","text":"我先延續一下剛才我們傅崐萁總召的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:39:26.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:39:43.044000+08:00","text":"確實，隨著颱風來襲，我有親戚本來定了要去花蓮，因為要支持花蓮觀光，可是颱風一來，最後還是必須忍痛割愛，所以我也確實覺得花東地區現在的交通狀況已經變成迫在眉睫的事情。","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:39:44.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:40:03.178000+08:00","text":"主委，因為我看到你針對國土法對其他部會也有很多建議，所以請你一樣發揮你協調或體察民意的精神，能夠趕快反映。","quality":0.653},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:40:04.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:40:55.791000+08:00","text":"另外，我要跟主委請教的是，在上個會期，我曾經針對警政署警用防彈衣的採購提出質疑，指出採購下來大概有四分之一不堪使用，必須退回給廠商，請他重新補正，這個警用背心廠商事實上從102年開始，陸陸續續因為採購上劣跡斑斑，被列為黑名單的次數達7次之多，但是他一旦被解除黑名單之後，照樣可以去投標。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:40:56.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:41:11.503000+08:00","text":"這個廠商─包括他的兒子也成立一家廠商，一直、常常投標警用防彈背心，然後每次都在被踢爆之後再做補正。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:41:13.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:41:18.286000+08:00","text":"這樣的事情對於第一線的警察、基層警察同仁情何以堪啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:41:20.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:41:40.973000+08:00","text":"防彈背心是保命用的，結果這樣的黑心廠商卻可以一而再、再而三地得標；不但他得標，他兒子開的公司也得標，在這裡我要請公共工程委員會針對政府採購法，必須去防堵這樣的弊端。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:41:42.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:41:43.834000+08:00","text":"主委，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:41:43.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:41:59.363000+08:00","text":"我們去調查了，因為到現在為止雖然有拒絕往來名單，可是即便他出包，過一段時間後、也許過了一年、兩年，甚至他找他的親戚再成立一家公司，照樣可以得標。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:42:01.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:42:13.009000+08:00","text":"現在有一些廠商被列為拒絕往來戶，最高次數都超過60件，有66件的、64件的、57件的，但是他怕嗎？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:42:13.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:42:19.611000+08:00","text":"他不怕，因為等到他解除了黑名單限制之後，回來又是好漢一個，繼續投標。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:42:22.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:42:47.517000+08:00","text":"其實我在這邊已經提出修法，我認為政府採購法裡面應該要有所謂「三振條款」，也就是當廠商一而再、再而三地被列為拒絕往來戶的時候，應該有一個懲罰性的規定，就是永久列為拒絕往來戶，這些廠商才會乖啊！","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:42:48.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:42:49.438000+08:00","text":"才會害怕啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:42:50.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:42:50.698000+08:00","text":"你看，連警用防彈背心，他都可以這樣惡搞。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:42:50.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:42:51.898000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，我提出相關問題的時候，警政署竟然告訴我：沒關係啦！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:42:51.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:42:52.538000+08:00","text":"發現這麼多……有一千四百多片喔！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:42:52.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:12.943000+08:00","text":"這些防彈背心的抗凹陷板，我們要求廠商完成回收，回收就好。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:13.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:19.931000+08:00","text":"我要告訴你，因為按照法規，也沒有永久性不准他再來標，所以他還可以再來標欸！","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:20.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:21.253000+08:00","text":"主委，可不可以請公共工程委員會認真地思考、檢討這個黑名單？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:31.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:32.305000+08:00","text":"可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:32.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:37.630000+08:00","text":"不然的話，這些黑名單在一年、三年之後又來標了。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:38.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:39.291000+08:00","text":"我可以告訴你喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:39.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:42.213000+08:00","text":"如果你不改的話，我就給你追蹤這些喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:43.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:47.978000+08:00","text":"這種影響基層、第一線警察生命的，你再讓他標試試看！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:50.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:50.760000+08:00","text":"主委，可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:51.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:43:55.865000+08:00","text":"工程會的正本清源之道，就是從政府採購法裡面去修法？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2024-09-30T12:43:57.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:16.386000+08:00","text":"就現有的法令，針對防彈背心這些案子，除了會停權之外，對於已經違法判刑的這些個人或相關公司，我們會專案清查，提醒各主辦機關……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:16.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:19.609000+08:00","text":"你這樣是針對個案，而且這是被我抓出來的，沒被我抓出來的咧？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:19.609000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:20.609000+08:00","text":"就是針對這些有共同的名稱、屬於同一個人的廠商，我們會針對這些個人全面清查其關係。","quality":0.243},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:20.609000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:21.609000+08:00","text":"第二個，因為要強制禁止他參與公共工程的採購，所以這個要修法，我們當然要透過修法……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:21.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:22.050000+08:00","text":"對，我現在就是請你們檢討、修法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:37.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:38.298000+08:00","text":"這項修法我們來研究。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:38.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:38.819000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:40.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:40.119000+08:00","text":"你們來檢討。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:40.119000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:41.119000+08:00","text":"政府採購法……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:40.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:41.740000+08:00","text":"你們可以做一道門檻嘛！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:41.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:45.822000+08:00","text":"對於那種惡性重大的廠商，不要再讓他有這種僥倖的機會。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:45.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:51.044000+08:00","text":"政府採購法還有其他部分似乎也有一些修正的必要，我們會一併討論。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:51.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:53.425000+08:00","text":"絕對不是只有警用背心，還有好多其他的案件。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:53.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:54.425000+08:00","text":"就是除了這些行為之外，還有其他部分可以來修正。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:54.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:55.425000+08:00","text":"是，可以、可以！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:55.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:56.425000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:56.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:57.425000+08:00","text":"這樣才能夠杜絕這種黑心廠商三不五時又過來做政府採購，然後給我們一堆黑心商品，好不好？好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:57.425000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:58.425000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:53.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:53.905000+08:00","text":"謝謝王鴻薇委員。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-09-30T12:44:54.405000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-09-30T12:44:57.833571+08:00","text":"接下來邀請陳俊宇委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:39:03 - 12:45:11","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":857,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時39分）謝謝主席，我請陳金德陳主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委好。我先延續一下剛才我們傅崐萁總召的質詢。確實，隨著颱風來襲，我有親戚本來定了要去花蓮，因為要支持花蓮觀光，可是颱風一來，最後還是必須忍痛割愛，所以我也確實覺得花東地區現在的交通狀況已經變成迫在眉睫的事情。主委，因為我看到你針對國土法對其他部會也有很多建議，所以請你一樣發揮你協調或體察民意的精神，能夠趕快反映。","另外，我要跟主委請教的是，在上個會期，我曾經針對警政署警用防彈衣的採購提出質疑，指出採購下來大概有四分之一不堪使用，必須退回給廠商，請他重新補正，這個警用背心廠商事實上從102年開始，陸陸續續因為採購上劣跡斑斑，被列為黑名單的次數達7次之多，但是他一旦被解除黑名單之後，照樣可以去投標。這個廠商─包括他的兒子也成立一家廠商，一直、常常投標警用防彈背心，然後每次都在被踢爆之後再做補正。這樣的事情對於第一線的警察、基層警察同仁情何以堪啊！防彈背心是保命用的，結果這樣的黑心廠商卻可以一而再、再而三地得標；不但他得標，他兒子開的公司也得標，在這裡我要請公共工程委員會針對政府採購法，必須去防堵這樣的弊端。","主委，你知道嗎？我們去調查了，因為到現在為止雖然有拒絕往來名單，可是即便他出包，過一段時間後、也許過了一年、兩年，甚至他找他的親戚再成立一家公司，照樣可以得標。現在有一些廠商被列為拒絕往來戶，最高次數都超過60件，有66件的、64件的、57件的，但是他怕嗎？他不怕，因為等到他解除了黑名單限制之後，回來又是好漢一個，繼續投標。其實我在這邊已經提出修法，我認為政府採購法裡面應該要有所謂「三振條款」，也就是當廠商一而再、再而三地被列為拒絕往來戶的時候，應該有一個懲罰性的規定，就是永久列為拒絕往來戶，這些廠商才會乖啊！才會害怕啊！你看，連警用防彈背心，他都可以這樣惡搞。","我告訴你，我提出相關問題的時候，警政署竟然告訴我：沒關係啦！發現這麼多……有一千四百多片喔！這些防彈背心的抗凹陷板，我們要求廠商完成回收，回收就好。我要告訴你，因為按照法規，也沒有永久性不准他再來標，所以他還可以再來標欸！主委，可不可以請公共工程委員會認真地思考、檢討這個黑名單？可不可以？不然的話，這些黑名單在一年、三年之後又來標了。我可以告訴你喔！如果你不改的話，我就給你追蹤這些喔！這種影響基層、第一線警察生命的，你再讓他標試試看！","主委，可不可以？工程會的正本清源之道，就是從政府採購法裡面去修法？"],["陳主任委員金德：就現有的法令，針對防彈背心這些案子，除了會停權之外，對於已經違法判刑的這些個人或相關公司，我們會專案清查，提醒各主辦機關……"],["王委員鴻薇：你這樣是針對個案，而且這是被我抓出來的，沒被我抓出來的咧？"],["陳主任委員金德：就是針對這些有共同的名稱、屬於同一個人的廠商，我們會針對這些個人全面清查其關係。","第二個，因為要強制禁止他參與公共工程的採購，所以這個要修法，我們當然要透過修法……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，我現在就是請你們檢討、修法。"],["陳主任委員金德：這項修法我們來研究。"],["王委員鴻薇：好不好？你們來檢討。"],["陳主任委員金德：政府採購法……"],["王委員鴻薇：你們可以做一道門檻嘛！對於那種惡性重大的廠商，不要再讓他有這種僥倖的機會。"],["陳主任委員金德：政府採購法還有其他部分似乎也有一些修正的必要，我們會一併討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：絕對不是只有警用背心，還有好多其他的案件。"],["陳主任委員金德：就是除了這些行為之外，還有其他部分可以來修正。"],["王委員鴻薇：是，可以、可以！好不好？這樣才能夠杜絕這種黑心廠商三不五時又過來做政府採購，然後給我們一堆黑心商品，好不好？"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["王委員鴻薇：謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員。","接下來邀請陳俊宇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","speakers":["陳素月","林俊憲","許智傑","黃健豪","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","廖先翔","魯明哲","邱若華","蔡其昌","林國成","游顥","徐富癸","黃國昌","洪孟楷","王美惠","廖偉翔","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","王鴻薇","陳俊宇","李柏毅","羅智強","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00013"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}