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要緊就緊 少年要講下我都不理你 我都提供我只要做訪查 我一定講下我一定講下 因為那些母語 很多人都講不記得 一定要帶頭因為他跟VNV在一起 親親友友一起討論我再問一件事情 昨天的NHKV也有輔助人員嗎"},{"start":306.88,"end":321.688,"text":"我記得以前是這樣,主委是南客,副主委是北客,北客是周主委,南客是南偏省,我認同這樣,現在在哪裡,北客沒有人在那裡?"},{"start":327.369,"end":330.31,"text":"這個我覺得我還有很大的遺憾就是這個谷主委來之後我們一直想"},{"start":350.575,"end":376.634,"text":"看他自己的狀況來填補一位副主委來協助他那目前還沒有適當的人員外界一直在猜測啦是不是北克沒有我們賴清德總統的人沒有沒有沒有剛剛我聽出來了這個委員有說到南克北克那因為副主委來自南部嘛我們一直希望在北部找一位熟悉地方熟悉文化那個也熟悉公共這個體系體系的人我現在是希望說我們客家客委會也好就是客委會"},{"start":377.174,"end":378.035,"text":"我們請兩位部長"},{"start":407.008,"end":435.084,"text":"院長我聽說本週五要喝一個溫暖的咖啡當然我希望這杯咖啡能夠融化你的心能夠把我們這個立法院的這個立場你要了解那我也希望你不要喝到不要點到冰的你要心裡還要喝熱一點好不好上週五咖啡很溫暖已經喝過了本週五希望有更溫暖的大火鍋那事實上我們這個"},{"start":436.496,"end":441.699,"text":"第一個網路上的訊息指責說是哪一方面的假消息所以福利會沒有津貼會領不到這個部分啊院長你認為勒"},{"start":463.032,"end":481.919,"text":"因為預算整體 到目前對我來講明年的預算到現在為止就是空的因為還沒有付尾 付尾之後實施審查就會產生任何的審訊但新增的事項新增的計畫就完全停擺跟原來的福利原來的津貼有什麼差別 有什麼不一樣"},{"start":483.479,"end":493.341,"text":"重點在於新政的今天明年有很多不要把這些事情就是用混淆的方式模糊焦點整個這樣打"},{"start":495.022,"end":520.198,"text":"帶動這個風向我們從來沒有這樣的表達過我們說預算是整體的需要能夠實質審查那當然為什麼我這樣講就是說我們也退一回我舉個例子就像我們小學的時候我們寫作業寫給了交了作業我們寫錯了老師叫我回去改當然也是應該很正常的對不對不能說寫錯了我們沒有依法便利預算"},{"start":521.001,"end":521.021,"text":"邱鎮軍議員"},{"start":530.868,"end":530.888,"text":"邱鎮軍議員"},{"start":554.705,"end":583.355,"text":"無法控制因為今天這個委員會來一個今天這個委員會來一個院長你講的都沒有錯但是我認同我認同你的論點但是立法院也不會無限上綱的去隨便去編列預算當然你們是編列預算的單位那我們是審預算的單位那當然如果我們立了法如果造成國家的這個財政的這個預算沒有辦法編列的時候你是不是就要主動出來溝通"},{"start":584.77,"end":586.071,"text":"原住民的預算才20幾億這會影響嗎"},{"start":602.165,"end":630.354,"text":"這不是錢多錢少的問題而且你要想想看從3萬塊的補償一下子增加為6萬比例上是百分之百的增加他已經十幾年沒有編列了沒有做但是也未曾有一項是這樣子況且這應該是由行政機關當時的這個我們的通膨也好就是當時的匯率來講當時也沒有那麼高所以現在錢越來越小我們只是把它提高對不對"},{"start":631.377,"end":648.063,"text":"提高我請問一下我們園民會是我也好你主委還在帛琉玩是擔任總統特使參加帛琉建國30週年我想請問你那你們講到你的意思是說不足的錢要用原住民綜合發展基金來補是嗎"},{"start":649.746,"end":674.273,"text":"這個在主計總署有做含釋在105年的時候就是說有關於進法補償的工作就是由公務預算跟原住民中央發展基金來對半來負擔那不足的部分未來基金有不服使用的部分現在基金有多少我們基金抱歉委員我沒聽清楚就是原住民的那個那個那個發展基金"},{"start":675.017,"end":702.314,"text":"我們現在還有20幾億的28億是嗎我們公務預算編列28億那你進法補償條例就要42億嘛那你們說會慢慢的說會如期來如何來發放這是你講過的嗎這個部分就是我們會合法那合理的來做什麼叫做合法合理合理法院的法還是合理我想行政機關就是依法來處理我們的政務那你有編預算嗎"},{"start":703.351,"end":723.046,"text":"有 公務預算編列28億阿你剩下怎麼辦我們基金有相關的預算你是挪用還是編列不是挪用 它是在基金基金只有28億不是嗎我們的基金管理辦法裡面支出的工作項目就包含金髮補償的這個項目但是你只有28億不是嗎"},{"start":724.721,"end":747.217,"text":"公務預算28億 那我們基金可以20億來去支應所以你可以發放就對了我們會合法合理來做這個工作我不希望這變成一個詐騙案啦好不好我希望說這個事情趕快政府不會詐騙市長請回齁副主委請回齁那我在 院長齁 我再請教齁"},{"start":748.285,"end":748.505,"text":"目前的進度在哪裡?"},{"start":767.294,"end":783.372,"text":"報告委員這個進度是昨天 院已經合下來了所以本會議就會準備行文到各部會開始進入規劃跟可言等進度所以他現在已經剛通過就對了對那苗栗的部分"},{"start":784.208,"end":808.656,"text":"我們現在怎麼規劃?您這邊有規劃嗎?苗栗像頭份、竹南、厚隆都有在匡列在裡面這三塊地都有匡列在裡面?是的那我想的話,因為這個對地方來講是非常重要的一件事情包含桃竹苗整個廊帶我們如果能夠發展起來尤其對苗栗來講苗南地區特別需要這樣的一個辦法那我也當然希望我們聽說我們有編列200億的預算是嗎?"},{"start":813.332,"end":830.677,"text":"這主要細部還是要看各部會的規劃各部會是對我們這邊是上位政策做整體桃竹苗的規劃以後進入細部會規劃譬如說經濟部他們會規劃產業園區然後各單位都會有交通部等等都會有各項的建設請部長講一下"},{"start":832.325,"end":852.86,"text":"報告委員 在後龍產業籌備用地的部分苗栗縣政府已經完成設置可行性的評估報告書之後將依產創條例競速審查並寒轉行政院審議 核定為重大的建設所以這個案子在進行中"},{"start":853.342,"end":875.062,"text":"已經進行了啦,那我希望就盡快啦好不好,讓地方上能夠有一個依據,我們其實地方上是非常期待,那也希望這個案子趕快確定,我們可以先做其他的事情,讓我們地方知道,讓地方來配合好不好?沒有,他都是在…那我們兩位部長請回去"},{"start":877.944,"end":883.947,"text":"這就是新增計畫這也是賴總統選前的一個政見拜託委員支持這個新增計畫才能如期推動謝謝院長我再請教一下你有沒有覺得我們潘孟安秘書長是一個優秀的屏東縣長"},{"start":907.063,"end":935.51,"text":"他在現場任期內評比很高地方民眾對他的支持度也很高我也很佩服他啦就是他把這個限制嚴格的農一劃在公有地4萬公頃的優良私有農地劃在農二還把應該劃農五的都計內的農地全部改劃到城鄉發展區那在我看來他非常勇於挑戰中央而且最後還讓中央妥協"},{"start":936.345,"end":963.207,"text":"你們說 地方政府作為規劃主體 屏東農地設置的爭議中 中央向地方妥協是符合國土規劃的原則 這句話沒有錯吧國土規劃是整體國家土地充分利用 資源利用那既然這樣子 既然全縣在地方 還有縣市也還沒交 有的還沒審過 那麼其他的縣市如果比照我們屏東這樣的話 您會支持嗎"},{"start":964.516,"end":967.883,"text":"這要地方政府跟我們農業單位跟內政部都來充分的"},{"start":969.551,"end":996.002,"text":"協調出一個合理的狀況來我跟委員說明就是現在地方政府在劃的農業發展區不只是農一農二農一到農五的劃出的區域那他是有他相關的一個規範跟指引那最主要是由原來的特農或一般農為基底去做轉成的那至於說地方政府劃出來了以後那有很多東西是可以有做調整的一個空間"},{"start":996.642,"end":1023.952,"text":"我們會依據實際的狀況跟現政府當地的一個產業發展的需求而做一個溝通你是講的意思是說每個縣市不同嗎一定是每因為到現在目前為止就是整個的土地的農地的一個是用總量管制的概念但是並沒有規定說地方政府一定要劃多少那我們有一個劃設指引那劃設指引如果說有一些"},{"start":1024.552,"end":1026.173,"text":"苗栗縣五個水庫影響了非常多農民的權益"},{"start":1050.406,"end":1077.257,"text":"市府保育又匡慮了很多的土地不能夠不好動因為管制又更嚴了現在再加上國土計畫法我希望我們中央一定要多為我們苗栗鄉親來考量因為說真的做牧農的人他們日子過得真的不是很好當土地越來越沒有價值的時候你要教他們怎麼活下去我希望"},{"start":1077.847,"end":1103.865,"text":"我們中央能夠考量到這一點因為苗栗比較特殊我更希望苗栗有一種特別的規劃方式這樣可以嗎這個跟委員報告只要苗栗縣政府把相關的國土計畫送上來我們內政部會秉持相關的原則來跟苗栗縣做討論所有的各縣市基本上也都是這樣你們現在急著明年要實施嗎"},{"start":1104.81,"end":1119.141,"text":"我們現在奉行政院的指示我們會積極跟各縣市政府溝通藍綠的委員大家都非常重視這個問題因為地方上確實聽到非常多的聲音我希望我們行政院這邊能夠聽取民意"},{"start":1122.433,"end":1140.039,"text":"能夠把這個事情如果暫緩兩年不是不執行我們不是不執行只是說暫緩兩年讓大家有更多一點的時間來溝通我覺得這才是好的不要一個這樣這麼重要的一個法案如果直接推動的時候如果沒有配套沒有做好真的會引起民憂"},{"start":1141.18,"end":1159.891,"text":"跟委員報告我們第一個站在內政部的立場我們當然要依法執行那第二個就是說行政院已經有指示我們會進行跟全面的地方的溝通對那這個相關的溝通也包括說跟大院這邊的溝通那大院這邊有什麼決定我們會遵從我相信這個案子一定會過啦就是說延緩兩年這個部分"},{"start":1166.595,"end":1183.741,"text":"我們已經給你台階下了,那你們趕快趁這兩年時間趕快去處理好不好我們會積極努力去處理相關的法律的修訂,包括執法那也跟委員報告,其實苗栗縣跟嘉義市也已經在媒體上告訴大家說他們會送國土計劃法"},{"start":1185.376,"end":1186.116,"text":"我覺得政策推動現在一定要因地制宜"},{"start":1214.932,"end":1215.613,"text":"我們之前有再問到我們才化法的部分"},{"start":1241.513,"end":1270.612,"text":"我們尊重行政院展現了很大的善意在上個會期我們也有先暫緩一下也希望我們行政院能夠提出政院版的財化法的修正案目前您行政院這邊有沒有什麼新的做法嗎有沒有新的計畫我應該了解財化法它本身是一個非常龐大的計算工程財政部在8月份跟9月份分別跟地方政府"},{"start":1272.178,"end":1283.086,"text":"是繼續做很多次的溝通那我想像現在他即使到目前為止也沒有辦法得出一個大家都能夠接受的方式出來那我會請財政部繼續來談這個事情是請財政部來說明一下嗎"},{"start":1291.672,"end":1312.244,"text":"這個照人口比例去分就好了嗎跟委員報告我想財化法的修正涉及到財政的資源的重分配對各級政府來說都是影響非常重大的所以我們在做這個財化法修正的時候第一個除了要照顧地方政府的一個需要同時中央的財政也一定要維持一定的一個韌性"},{"start":1313.244,"end":1333.231,"text":"那過往有5次 從88年到現在有5次送立法院審議都沒有能夠修正通過就是因為沒有共識沒有共識主要是因為分配的機制大家都還有爭議那所以這一次我們會在分配機制上我們認為要充分的討論你那時候是送立法院對不對那這一次立法院如果通過了你們遵不遵守"},{"start":1334.617,"end":1355.619,"text":"這部分我們認為應該要審慎的規劃來行動那這一次我們來幫你解決嘛這個如果是很貿然而是為了要求快通過的話那事實上會造成更大的爭議那未來在公平分配上其實會影響更大也跟委員報告才化法雖然沒有能夠修正但是我們在"},{"start":1356.34,"end":1358.022,"text":"你不要講那個啦,但是我就覺得我們要立民又補到錢啊"},{"start":1371.499,"end":1395.574,"text":"我苗栗就是沒有補到啦有啊苗栗也是有分啦你那是一般建設有些東西我們講難聽一點啦如果錢給我們自己我們來規劃那我們當然苗栗現在還因為負債嘛對不對我們可以更好的規劃我們的財政預算那現在完全靠中央給我們要還到什麼時候你們的錢只是建設啊那我們永遠苗栗在負債"},{"start":1397.643,"end":1408.425,"text":"財務的部分因為苗栗過往財務事實上是有超限目前來說在地方政府努力下已經有這樣子很多了那整個財政紀律沒有維持已經不符合現在的我們的需求了嗎不會我覺得這個部分在一般性的補助款中間種族也給予支持那我再問那就是現在假如立法院通過之後你們怎麼辦"},{"start":1427.915,"end":1455.791,"text":"我覺得這個是一個高度共識的一個法案才可以那雖然說過去幾年財法法沒有做過任何的修訂但是逐年中央對地方的補助是一再的增加剛剛部長也講到了明年度我們高達增加了900億我們中央的稅 國稅的部分那一般的補助增長超過一倍中央總預算已經突破三兆了可是地方稅收的成長率卻只有13%"},{"start":1457.438,"end":1483.164,"text":"而且法定支出越來越多你懂我意思嗎你這造成地方上的真的是非常的辛苦以前錢通通抓在中央沒有沒有沒有我們對一般補助統籌分配款都有相當的挹注給地方而且因為逐年的增加那過去的數字部長再說明一下像今年跟明年我們就明年又增加的相當大那今年實際上也增加了對地方所以院長您的意思"},{"start":1483.82,"end":1494.711,"text":"您的意思 財化法這一次 您還是不準備動啊 準備不調了我覺得要有充分討論 而且要有共識 這樣子通過才有意義你說這些縣市 妳們找來溝通 妳找誰來溝通"},{"start":1499.161,"end":1526.446,"text":"各地方政府以及部會都有來我們在這個分配的指標上在財政努力還有基本建設需求這部分都已經中國討論而且有初步的成果那後續必須對於權重還有調整係數的部分都還要做精緻的一個規劃我這樣講當然我們現在立法院的那個版本到底適不適用這個我不多講但是我認為大家要出來談你來談我們大家才會有空間"},{"start":1527.403,"end":1536.319,"text":"不是說一定要照我們立法院的版本你把你們的立場講出來但是你一定要願意退啊你懂我意思嗎你不能說我就是這樣子我就不跟你談"},{"start":1537.708,"end":1558.696,"text":"這不是中央退的問題是中央地方一起進步的問題我們一起進步就是中央會用更多的資源役注在地方需要的縣市我們絕對不是用人口來做唯一的標準比例剛剛部長講了很多有他各種的條件算出來這是一個複雜的財政資源分配的一個計算工程"},{"start":1560.092,"end":1579.88,"text":"我認為啦就是說現在我們台灣的政治氛圍我希望大家能夠坐下來好好談你們如果不談這個案子還是會通過那通過的時候我們要請我們大法官保姆來保護你們嗎所以立法院通過的東西你們都不承認是不是你乾脆請大法官出來把我們立法院講的都不算就好了"},{"start":1580.575,"end":1607.52,"text":"我當然希望立法行政兩院的互動能夠非常的平實而且非常能夠依照各種法律來進行願計分立這個問題要非常的遵守我真的希望台灣更好地方更好那我也不希望看到藍綠的惡鬥那我們希望我們大家一起努力往前走好不好是我們當然希望中央跟地方大家都一起好所以在整個分配的機制上我們必須要做更詳細更細緻的一個規劃好"},{"start":1616.266,"end":1638.731,"text":"我們全面開放輔導五縣市的食品你們的理由是回歸科學從2011年到現在邊境檢驗輻射23.5萬多批檢測結果均符合我國標準及日本標準不合格為零那你有沒有告訴大家日本的檢驗批數是多少"},{"start":1640.946,"end":1660.012,"text":"現在狀況是日本禁止的我國就禁止在周遭五線原來有一些禁止的所以我們是聽日本的跟著日本的腳步走日本說吃就是可以吃日本說不能吃我們就不能吃是這樣嗎這還是符合國際的標準國際的檢驗標準"},{"start":1662.232,"end":1664.373,"text":"我看了一下報告從110年到112年6月日本檢驗的P數總共183萬4681P這期間驗了21萬1370P也就是說我們的這個比例只有九分之一"},{"start":1683.288,"end":1690.429,"text":"我們是在我們的邊境我們在我們的邊境檢驗阿13年來我們在我們邊境檢驗的數量你有沒有檢驗到也沒有檢驗過到輻射嗎沒有13年來檢驗邊境檢驗的23.5萬批次都符合我們現在的標準那這個也跟國際檢測那我再問一下靜岡縣的那個抹茶靜岡還不是福島五縣市喔它今年2月到7月十幾趴的抽驗率就抽出兩批有輻射"},{"start":1714.758,"end":1739.977,"text":"那除了日本禁止之外原來我們禁止的我們還是會採取雙證件的方式第一個他的產地第一個他的輻射證明會用雙證件來審查這樣子啦我覺得是這樣啦人民的標準他只有0跟1啦沒有什麼我一點點你只能告訴他這個能不能吃能不能吃我們希望政府我們邱部長你應該好好把這個把關好"},{"start":1741.204,"end":1766.583,"text":"這是我們第一個原則優先食品安全那是以科學的證據以及跟國際的接軌這個是共同的標準我曾經看了一個報導我們對日本很好我們那個毛豆我們進口到他們的關稅是6%多其他國家是4%多他其實也沒有對我們很好"},{"start":1767.589,"end":1767.709,"text":"時間剩下40秒了"},{"start":1795.413,"end":1810.832,"text":"我希望最後來,我們碳費審議的作業,現在大概決定是300塊開始還是?我們還有自主減量,我們還有優惠措施,那明年會開始計算明年已經出來了嗎?"},{"start":1813.946,"end":1833.409,"text":"報告委員那個10月7號有最後一次的審議委員會預計優惠費率應該會出來那您預計是多少目前我看到委員的討論大概是100塊的上下應該會先這樣走對一個範圍你要循序漸進不要讓我們企業一下通通沒辦法大家都沒辦法接受大家都跑掉了"},{"start":1842.213,"end":1843.116,"text":"好,謝謝邱委員也謝謝卓院長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:47:22.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:47:41.914000+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩請院長。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-01T10:47:41.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:47:42.114000+08:00","text":"請卓院長備詢。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:47:53.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:47:53.490000+08:00","text":"邱委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:47:53.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:47:54.231000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:47:55.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:48:21.207000+08:00","text":"我想問一下，您在宣布內閣人事的時候說過支持客家朋友的權益及客家文化的保存是我們執政黨長期以來的一個目標，我身為客家人，聽到是非常的高興，也滿感動的，但是最近教育部說行政院要把閩南語改成臺語，我就覺得很奇怪，我請教一下院長，客語是臺灣的語言嗎？","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:48:22.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:48:31.925000+08:00","text":"我曾經說過幾次，這個都是國家語言，我們就用國家語言來認定所有在這裡通用的語言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:48:31.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:48:33.085000+08:00","text":"原住民語言也是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:48:33.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:48:34.326000+08:00","text":"包括手語都是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:48:35.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:48:49.171000+08:00","text":"剛剛我看到陳玉珍委員也提到他們的金門話、金門語言也算是我們臺灣的語言，既然通通都是，那為什麼行政院這一次要把閩南語特別改成臺語呢？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2024-10-01T10:48:50.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:48:52.052000+08:00","text":"我可以回答嗎？可以。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2024-10-01T10:48:53.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:49:08.936000+08:00","text":"我覺得今天會有這個規定是因為早期大家獨尊華語，把所有其他語言都消滅，這個語言法是要把一些要被消滅的語言重新恢復，所以才會有這個法，那麼全部加一個「臺灣」是因為……","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:49:08.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:49:10.357000+08:00","text":"你說閩南語會被消滅啊？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2024-10-01T10:49:11.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:49:13.999000+08:00","text":"差不多啊，其實會講閩南語的人不多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2024-10-01T10:49:15.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:49:21.382000+08:00","text":"今天我們講閩南語也好、臺語也好，的確是跟過去比起來，差不多四十幾歲以下的人就不會講了，閩南語或者臺語的確一直在消滅中，所以我們會訂這個法，其實是想把所有在臺灣的語言都變成國家語言，以前我們的國家語言是華語嘛！","quality":0.354},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:49:21.382000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:49:22.382000+08:00","text":"所以您是覺得客家話跟原住民語都不重要嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2024-10-01T10:49:22.382000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:49:23.382000+08:00","text":"同時在消失，所以……對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:49:23.382000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:49:24.382000+08:00","text":"那為什麼這些沒有一起編列……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2024-10-01T10:49:23.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:01.664000+08:00","text":"對於客家或者原住民語的消失跟文化保存，我們專門設了委員會，其實對於整個語言今天大家會有爭辯，都來自於早期我們獨尊華語，把它定義成國語，其他語言都慢慢被消失。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:01.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:05.186000+08:00","text":"其實我們的語言法就是這麼簡單，現在的國家語言是保障沒看到……","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:06.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:20.038000+08:00","text":"我也看到我們國家語言發展報告的網站，特別標註我們行政院請各機關優先使用臺灣原住民語言、臺灣客語、臺灣臺語，還有馬祖語、臺灣手語等等，都算是。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:20.038000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:21.038000+08:00","text":"當然，我也認同我們生長在中華民國這塊土地上，所有的族群都是臺灣人，所以每個族群用的語言都是我們臺灣話，也是臺語，尤其在教育上，文化、藝術不應該有政治的考量來介入。是。","quality":0.027},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:21.038000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:22.038000+08:00","text":"我希望大家一視同仁，因為都是住在這一塊土地，好不好？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:22.038000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:23.038000+08:00","text":"這個可以把它編進去，我們可以把它編在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:21.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:22.416000+08:00","text":"是，我們會公平對待所有語言。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:22.416000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:50.690000+08:00","text":"客委會，你認同嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:50.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:51.090000+08:00","text":"委員好，委員好，委員好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:51.090000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:50:56.087000+08:00","text":"你認同剛才講的這個嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:50:56.087000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:01.084000+08:00","text":"當時你怎麼沒出來講話？","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:01.084000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:06.081000+08:00","text":"有，我們有出來表達，我們有出來表達，就是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:06.081000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:11.078000+08:00","text":"在哪裡表達？","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:11.078000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:16.075000+08:00","text":"我們在媒體上也有說過，就是基於名從主人……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:16.075000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:21.072000+08:00","text":"你可以講客家話嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:21.072000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:26.069000+08:00","text":"可以、可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:26.069000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:31.066000+08:00","text":"就是過去我們講的河洛人，他們講河洛話，他們自己本身就說「我說臺語」這樣，所以他們長期都這樣講，現在就是名從主人，稱為臺灣臺語，是這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:31.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:47.569000+08:00","text":"同樣地，我們也尊重客家人對河洛人，因為我們就說它是河洛話，不會說它是臺語，所以自稱跟他稱我們都會尊重，這其實就包含所有的族群尊重跟包容的特性。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:48.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:51:51.990000+08:00","text":"主委，我相信是這樣，我希望你站在我們客家人的立場上，為我們客家鄉親、客家人多爭取，不要被人說看不起……好。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:51:51.990000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:01.277000+08:00","text":"因為我們越來越弱勢，年輕人現在說真的越來越少人會講客家話，我們在苗栗、我們在地方上，我只要跑行程，我一定講客家話，我一定講客家話。","quality":0.276},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:01.277000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:10.564000+08:00","text":"是，這需要大家努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:10.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:14.246000+08:00","text":"因為這是我們的母語，不能說我們不記得，我們一定要帶頭，尤其客家委員會是我們一個很重要的單位。","quality":0.31},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:15.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:15.686000+08:00","text":"我再問一件事情，為什麼我們現在沒看到客委會副主委？","quality":0.304},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:15.686000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:28.880000+08:00","text":"因為這個部分有去找，但是很多……","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:28.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:35.523000+08:00","text":"我記得以前是這樣，主委是南客，我們副主委就要北客，對嗎？","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:35.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:36.523000+08:00","text":"北客做主委，副主委就要到南客找，我也認同這樣，為什麼到現在我們北客沒人才，是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:36.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:37.523000+08:00","text":"這是你決定，還是上面決定的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:37.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:38.523000+08:00","text":"我們可以來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:38.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:39.523000+08:00","text":"你可以決定嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:39.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:40.523000+08:00","text":"我們可以來找人才、請人才。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:40.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:41.523000+08:00","text":"我問主委，你可以決定嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:41.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:42.523000+08:00","text":"聘用的權力還是要由院長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:42.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:43.523000+08:00","text":"還是要院長決定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:37.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:37.504000+08:00","text":"副主委是要院長決定嗎？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:39.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:52:39.746000+08:00","text":"還是要……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:52:49.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:53:18.559000+08:00","text":"我覺得我還有很大的遺憾，就是古主委來之後，我們一直想看他自己的狀況來填補一位副主委協助他，到目前還沒有適當的人選。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:53:18.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:53:21.962000+08:00","text":"外界直在猜測，是不是北客沒有我們賴清德總統的人？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:53:21.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:53:34.771000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，剛剛我聽出來了，委員有說到南客、北客，因為古主委來自南部，我們一直希望在北部找一位熟悉地方、熟悉文化、也熟悉公共體系的人。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:53:34.771000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:53:35.901750+08:00","text":"我們是這樣講，我現在是希望我們客家、客委會也好，客委會現在無論主委是南客、還是北客，我們都歡迎，只要是為客家人做事情，我們當然全部都支持，只是我希望在北客、我們副主委的部分趕快提出來，讓我們多一個溝通的管道，這樣對主委來講，我們地方上才能夠發展得更平均一點，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.165},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:53:35.901750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:53:37.032500+08:00","text":"好的、好的，我們儘快來處理……","quality":0},{"speaker":"古主任委員秀妃","start":"2024-10-01T10:53:37.032500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:53:38.163250+08:00","text":"是，我們來找人才。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:53:38.163250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:53:39.294000+08:00","text":"我也請主委能夠尋找一個優秀的人選來出任副主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:53:39.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:53:40.035000+08:00","text":"好，請兩位部長回去。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:54:09.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:54:30.761000+08:00","text":"院長，我聽說了，本週五要喝一個溫暖的咖啡，當然，我希望這一杯咖啡能夠融化你的心，能夠把我們立法院的立場讓你了解，我也希望你不要點到冰的，你要儘量喝熱一點的，好不好？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:54:31.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:54:36.284000+08:00","text":"上週五咖啡很溫暖，已經喝過了，本週五希望有更溫暖的大火鍋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:54:36.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:54:38.496000+08:00","text":"事實上，查核中心告訴大家，預算被退回、福利沒了、津貼領不到是假消息，但民進黨網軍、民意代表一直在散播假的消息，就這個部分你要不要跟大家說明一下？","quality":0.078},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:54:38.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:54:40.877000+08:00","text":"第一個，網路上的訊息指責的是哪一方面的假消息，這個要進一步……","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:54:41.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:54:43.679000+08:00","text":"就是福利會沒有、津貼會領不到這個部分，院長，你認為呢？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:05.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:14.595000+08:00","text":"因為預算整體到目前對我來講，明年的預算到現在為止就是空的，因為還沒有付委，付委之後實質審查就會產生……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:14.595000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:17.917000+08:00","text":"一般性的支出是不會影響的。","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:17.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:20.858000+08:00","text":"但新增的事項、新增的計畫就完全停擺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:20.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:22.938000+08:00","text":"跟原來的福利、原來的津貼有什麼差別？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:23.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:23.919000+08:00","text":"有什麼不一樣呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:25.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:28.766000+08:00","text":"重點在於新增的，明年有很多……對嘛！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:29.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:37.022000+08:00","text":"你不要把這些事情用混淆的方式模糊焦點，整個這樣帶動這個風向……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:37.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:41.705000+08:00","text":"我們從來沒有這樣表達過，我們說預算是整體的，希望能夠實質審查。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:42.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:42.605000+08:00","text":"當然啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:46.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:55:58.535000+08:00","text":"我舉個例子，就像我們小學的時候寫作業交了作業，但是我們寫錯了，老師叫我回去改，當然也是應該，這是很正常的，對不對？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:55:58.535000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:56:11.258333+08:00","text":"不能說寫錯了，你沒有依法編列預算，你沒有照著法規編列預算的時候，我們跟你講，然後你卻跟我說是老師不對。","quality":0.261},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:56:11.258333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:56:23.981667+08:00","text":"我們預算編列制定的過程、程序是有它一定的，行政院負責制定和編列，立法院負責審議，在制定的過程當中，行政院有整體的考量，如果一個提案或一個法律就能夠增加一些預算的話……","quality":0.013},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:56:23.981667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:56:36.705000+08:00","text":"那要立法院幹什麼呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:56:36.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:56:39.946000+08:00","text":"那以後沒有辦法編預算，以後預算會膨脹到無法控制，因為今天這個委員會來一個……","quality":0.471},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:56:41.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:57:05.335000+08:00","text":"我認同，院長講的都沒有錯，我認同你的論點，但是立法院也不會無限上綱地隨便編列預算，當然，你們是編列預算的單位，我們是審預算的單位，如果我們立了法造成國家財政預算沒有辦法編列的時候，你是不是就要主動出來溝通，對不對？","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:57:05.335000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:57:06.770000+08:00","text":"當時我們希望不要朝那個方向跟結果發展，結果變成跟原意不一樣，所以會變成現在此例一開……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:57:06.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:57:08.071000+08:00","text":"原住民的預算才二十幾億，這會影響嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:57:24.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:57:33.468000+08:00","text":"這不是錢多錢少的問題，而且你要想想看，從三萬塊的補償一下子增加為六萬，比例上是百分之百的增加。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:57:35.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:57:36.989000+08:00","text":"它已經十幾年沒有編列了、沒有修改了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:57:37.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:57:42.631000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，但是也未曾有一項是這樣子，況且這應該是由行政機關……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:57:42.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:57:59.419000+08:00","text":"當時的時空背景、當時的通膨也好，或是以當時的匯率來講也沒有那麼高，現在錢越來越小，我們只是把它提高，請問原民會，主委還在帛琉玩啊？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:57:59.419000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:00.419000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:57:59.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:03.721000+08:00","text":"是，擔任總統特使參加帛琉建國30週年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:04.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:10.063000+08:00","text":"你剛才講到你的意思是不足的錢要用原住民綜合發展基金來補，是嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:11.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:26.250000+08:00","text":"這個主計總處在105年的時候有做出函釋，有關於禁伐補償的工作就是由公務預算跟原住民綜合發展基金對半來負擔，不足的部分，未來基金有不敷使用的部分……","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:26.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:30.291000+08:00","text":"現在基金有多少？抱歉！","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:30.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:31.572000+08:00","text":"委員，我沒聽清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:32.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:36.253000+08:00","text":"原住民的發展基金。","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:37.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:38.338000+08:00","text":"我們現在還有二十幾億。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:39.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:40.519000+08:00","text":"28億是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:40.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:43.361000+08:00","text":"我們公務預算編列28億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:45.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:53.107000+08:00","text":"禁伐補償條例就要42億，你們說會慢慢如期如額來發放，這是你講過的嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:53.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:55.728000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們會合法合理的來做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:56.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:57.149000+08:00","text":"什麼叫做合法合理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:57.149000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:58.570000+08:00","text":"就是依法來辦理。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:58:58.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:58:59.230000+08:00","text":"依立法院的法還是行政院的法？","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:00.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:03.413000+08:00","text":"我想行政機關就是依法來處理我們的政務。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:03.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:04.314000+08:00","text":"那你有編預算嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:05.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:06.992000+08:00","text":"有，公務預算編列28億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:06.992000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:09.034000+08:00","text":"不夠啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:09.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:10.215000+08:00","text":"剩下的怎麼辦？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:10.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:12.196000+08:00","text":"我們基金有相關的預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:13.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:14.498000+08:00","text":"你是挪用，還是編列？","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:15.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:16.199000+08:00","text":"不是挪用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:18.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:19.402000+08:00","text":"基金只有28億，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:19.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:23.025000+08:00","text":"我們的基金管理辦法裡面支出的工作項目就包含禁伐補償工作這個項目。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:24.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:25.046000+08:00","text":"但是你只有28億，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:26.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:30.484000+08:00","text":"公務預算28億，我們的基金有20億可以去支應。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:30.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:31.644000+08:00","text":"所以可以發放就對了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:32.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:33.986000+08:00","text":"我們會合法合理來做這個工作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:34.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:36.568000+08:00","text":"我不希望這變成一個詐騙案，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:36.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:37.769000+08:00","text":"我希望說這個事情趕快進行。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:37.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:38.589000+08:00","text":"政府不會詐騙。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:45.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:46.515000+08:00","text":"副主委請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:46.515000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T10:59:57.904500+08:00","text":"我再請教院長，上個會期我們在6月的時候有質詢過，本席向院長請教過我們桃竹苗大矽谷計畫，當然地方上是非常重視這個案子，我想請教目前的進度到哪裡？","quality":0.169},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T10:59:57.904500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:09.294000+08:00","text":"請劉主委回答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:09.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:20.607000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個進度是昨天院已經核下來了，所以本會就會準備行文到各部會開始進入規劃跟可研等進度。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:21.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:24.691000+08:00","text":"所以現在已經剛通過就對了？對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:24.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:28.809000+08:00","text":"那苗栗的部分現在怎麼規劃，您這邊有計畫嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:28.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:33.550000+08:00","text":"苗栗像頭份、竹南、後龍都有匡列在裡面。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:34.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:35.211000+08:00","text":"這三塊地都有匡列在裡面？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:35.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:35.951000+08:00","text":"Yes，是的。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:37.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:50.656000+08:00","text":"因為這對地方來講是非常重要的一件事情，包含桃竹苗整個廊帶，如果能夠發展起來，尤其對苗栗來講，苗南地區特別需要這樣的一個辦法，聽說你們有編列兩百億的預算是嗎？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:55.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:59.293000+08:00","text":"主要細部還是要看各部會的規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:00:59.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:00:59.793000+08:00","text":"各部會是誰？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-10-01T11:01:00.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:01:12.557000+08:00","text":"對，我們這邊是上位政策做整體桃竹苗的規劃以後進入細部規劃，譬如說經濟部會規劃產業園區，然後各單位像交通部等等都會有各項的建設。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:01:12.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:01:12.657000+08:00","text":"請部長講一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-10-01T11:01:14.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:01:34.840000+08:00","text":"報告委員，在後龍產業籌備用地的部分，苗栗縣政府已經完成設置可行性的評估報告書之後，將依產創條例儘速審查，並函轉行政院審議核定為重大建設，所以這個案子在進行中。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:01:35.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:01:35.963000+08:00","text":"已經進行了啦！對！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:01:36.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:01:38.125000+08:00","text":"我希望儘快啦，好不好？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:01:38.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:01:51.577000+08:00","text":"讓地方上能夠有一個依據，其實地方上是非常期待，也希望這個案子趕快確定，我們可以先做其他的事情，讓我們地方知道，再讓地方來配合，好不好？好。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:01:56.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:01:56.882000+08:00","text":"兩位部長請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:01:59.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:00.725000+08:00","text":"委員，這就是新增計畫。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:00.725000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:01.725000+08:00","text":"新增的嘛？對！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:01.725000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:02.725000+08:00","text":"一定要有預算才能執行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:02.725000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:03.725000+08:00","text":"我希望這樣子啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:00.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:01.605000+08:00","text":"這也是賴總統選前的一個政見，我們一定是全力支持、一定全力支持。","quality":0.464},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:01.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:03.806000+08:00","text":"所以拜託委員支持，這個新增計畫才能夠如期去推動。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:03.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:03.806000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:03.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:05.947000+08:00","text":"院長，我再請教一下，你有沒有覺得潘孟安秘書長是一位優秀的屏東縣長？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:05.947000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:17.505000+08:00","text":"優秀的什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:17.505000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:29.063000+08:00","text":"屏東縣長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:29.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:34.624000+08:00","text":"他在縣長任期內評比很高，地方民眾對他的支持度也很高。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:35.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:02:35.865000+08:00","text":"我也很佩服他啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:02:36.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:03:08.093000+08:00","text":"他把限制嚴格的農1劃在公有地，4萬公頃的優良私有農地劃在農2，還把應該劃為農5的都計內農地全部改劃到城鄉發展區，在我看來他非常勇於挑戰中央，而且最後還讓中央妥協，你們說地方政府作為規劃主體，屏東農地設置的爭議中，中央向地方妥協是符合國土規劃原則，這句話沒有錯吧？","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:03:09.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:03:13.497000+08:00","text":"國土規劃是整體國家土地充分利用、資源利用的一個規劃。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:03:13.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:03:25.207000+08:00","text":"既然權限在地方，還有縣市也還沒交，有的也還沒審過，其他縣市如果比照屏東這樣劃，您會支持嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:03:26.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:03:34.773000+08:00","text":"這要地方政府、農業單位跟內政部都充分地協調出一個合理的狀況，請部長說明。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-01T11:03:34.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:04:05.825000+08:00","text":"我跟委員說明，現在地方政府在劃的農業發展區，不只是農1、農2，農1到農5的劃設區域，它是有其相關的規範跟指引，最主要是由原來的特農或一般農為基底去做轉成的，至於地方政府劃出來以後，很多東西是可以有調整的空間，我們會依據實際狀況跟縣政府當地的產業發展需求而做一個溝通。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:04:06.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:04:08.346000+08:00","text":"您講的意思是每個縣市不同喔？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-01T11:04:10.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:04:25.932000+08:00","text":"因為到目前為止，整個農地是用總量管制的概念，但是並沒有規定地方政府一定要劃多少，我們有一個劃設指引，劃設指引如果有一些調整的時候，我們可以跟地方政府一起努力來做一個最有效地調整，最主要是……","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:04:25.932000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:04:26.932000+08:00","text":"所以苗栗縣政府如果發現有問題、有爭議的時候，是不是可以來做一個調整？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:04:26.932000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:04:27.932000+08:00","text":"可以嘛？對！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-01T11:04:27.932000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:04:28.932000+08:00","text":"是可以經過溝通以後去做一個調整。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:04:26.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:04:59.109000+08:00","text":"我憑良心講，因為苗栗縣五個水庫，影響了非常多農民的權益，農業影響非常大，再加上石虎保育又匡了很多土地，不好動啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:04:59.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:05:17.976000+08:00","text":"因為管制又更嚴了，現在再加上國土計畫法，我希望我們中央一定要多為我們苗栗的鄉親來考量，因為說真的，務農的人他們日子過得真的不是很好，當土地越來越沒有價值的時候，你要叫他們怎麼活下去？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:05:18.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:05:21.768000+08:00","text":"我希望我們中央能夠考量到這一點……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-01T11:05:21.768000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:05:22.768000+08:00","text":"會，我們會持續……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:05:21.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:05:29.614000+08:00","text":"因為苗栗比較特殊，我更希望苗栗有一種特別的規劃方式，這樣可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-10-01T11:05:29.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:05:44.604000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，只要苗栗縣政府把相關的國土計畫法送上來，那麼我們內政部會秉持相關的原則來跟苗栗縣做討論，所有的各縣市基本上也都是這樣子。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:05:44.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:05:45.865000+08:00","text":"好，那我再請問，你們現在急著明年要實施嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-10-01T11:05:46.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:05:50.813000+08:00","text":"我們現在奉行政院的指示，我們會積極跟各縣市政府溝通，我們會依法去執行。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:05:53.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:06:14.777000+08:00","text":"我覺得現在我們藍綠的委員，大家都非常重視這個問題，因為地方上確實聽到非常多的聲音，我希望我們行政院這邊能夠聽取民意，如果能夠把這個事情暫緩兩年，我們不是不執行，只是說暫緩兩年，讓大家有更多一點的時間來溝通，我覺得這才是好的啦！","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:06:15.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:06:22.019000+08:00","text":"一個這麼重要的法案如果直接推動的時候，如果沒有配套、沒有做好，真的會引起民怨。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-10-01T11:06:23.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:06:33.746000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，第一個，站在內政部的立場，我們當然要依法執行；第二個就是說，行政院已經有指示，我們會進行全面的跟地方溝通……","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:06:33.746000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:06:35.447000+08:00","text":"我們立法院就已經給你們下台階了嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:06:35.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:06:35.447000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-10-01T11:06:35.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:06:40.530000+08:00","text":"對，相關的溝通也包括跟大院這邊的溝通，大院這邊有什麼決定，我們會遵從，我們會積極跟地方上去協商討論……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:06:40.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:06:41.351000+08:00","text":"我相信這個案子一定會過啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:06:41.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:06:53.317000+08:00","text":"就是說延緩兩年這個部分，我們已經給你台階下了，那你們趕快趁這兩年時間趕快去處理好不好？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-10-01T11:06:53.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:07:05.721000+08:00","text":"我們會積極努力去處理相關法令的修訂，包括子法，也跟委員報告，其實苗栗縣跟嘉義市也已經在媒體上告訴大家說他們會送國土計畫法進來。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-01T11:07:05.721000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:07:07.376000+08:00","text":"我在這邊也跟委員補充說明，就是委員關心的，就是剛才講的石虎保育區之類的，農業部對於整個農業政策的推動跟協助，不會因為國土計畫的改變、如期或是延後而有所延宕，所以針對這個部分，像石虎保育區的話，我們也在規劃所謂的生態給付的部分，來表彰這些農民守護這片土地、守護這個生態的貢獻。","quality":0.008},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:07:07.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:07:08.096000+08:00","text":"我覺得政策推動現在一定要因地制宜啦，好不好？是。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:07:08.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:07:22.514000+08:00","text":"讓我們地方上能夠更加地和諧，這才是我們要的，因為老百姓真的是很可憐，你如果一個法令定下去之後，搞不好他就因為這樣子整個生計就受到影響，所以我們應該要從長計議，好不好？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:07:22.514000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:07:36.932000+08:00","text":"好，請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:07:36.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:08:07.636000+08:00","text":"院長，不好意思，我再問，我們之前有問到財劃法的部分，我們尊重行政院，展現了很大的善意嘛！","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:08:08.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:08:22.865000+08:00","text":"在上個會期我們也有先暫緩一下，也希望我們行政院能夠提出政院版的財劃法修正案，目前您行政院這邊有沒有什麼新的做法嗎？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:08:22.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:08:24.266000+08:00","text":"有沒有新的計畫？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:08:24.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:08:45.086000+08:00","text":"委員應該了解財劃法本身是一個非常龐大的計算工程，財政部在8月份跟9月份分別跟地方政府繼續做很多次的溝通，我想像即使到目前為止也沒有辦法得出一個大家都能夠接受的方式出來，我會請財政部繼續來談這個事情，請財政部來說明一下好嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:08:45.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:08:47.948000+08:00","text":"我覺得不會沒有辦法啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:08:47.948000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:08:50.810000+08:00","text":"只要行政院願意撥一些空間出來，大家怎麼會不願意呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:08:50.810000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:08:53.672000+08:00","text":"不是，這是水平分配的問題，請財政部說明。","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:08:53.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:08:55.052000+08:00","text":"照人口比例去分就好了嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:08:56.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:26.808000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想財劃法的修正涉及到財政的資源重分配，對各級政府來說都是影響非常重大的，所以我們在做財劃法修正的時候，第一個，除了要照顧地方政府的需要，同時中央的財政也一定要維持一定的韌性，過往有5次，從88年到現在有5次送立法院審議，都沒有能夠修正通過，就是因為沒有共識，沒有共識主要是因為分配的機制大家都還有爭議……","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:26.808000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:27.808000+08:00","text":"那個時候是送立法院對不對？","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:26.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:31.249000+08:00","text":"所以這一次我們會在分配機制上，我們認為要充分地討論，凝聚最大的共識。","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:31.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:33.130000+08:00","text":"你那時候是送立法院對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:33.130000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:34.130000+08:00","text":"5次都是送到立法院。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:33.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:35.211000+08:00","text":"那這一次立法院如果通過了，你們遵不遵守？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:36.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:42.002000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們認為應該要審慎地規劃來推動……","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:42.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:43.344000+08:00","text":"你看那時候又說送立法院沒辦法解決，那這一次我們來幫你解決嘛！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:43.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:45.186000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:45.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:56.638000+08:00","text":"如果是很貿然，為了要求快通過的話，事實上會造成更大的爭議，未來在公平分配上其實會影響更大，也跟委員報告，財劃法雖然沒有能夠修正……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:56.638000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:57.638000+08:00","text":"你們不能說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:57.638000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:58.638000+08:00","text":"但是我們在對地方政府的財政挹注事實上是成長很多，尤其114年比113年，加上統籌加上一般補助款會增加到900億，是歷年來最高，已經達到七千多億……","quality":0.086},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:58.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:09:58.600000+08:00","text":"你不要講那個啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:09:58.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:00.002000+08:00","text":"我就覺得我苗栗沒有補到錢啊！什麼？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:13.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:15.740000+08:00","text":"我苗栗就是沒有補到啦！有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:16.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:17.141000+08:00","text":"苗栗也是有的。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:17.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:19.983000+08:00","text":"你那是一般建設，我們講難聽一點啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:20.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:26.067000+08:00","text":"如果錢給我們自己來規劃，苗栗縣因為負債，對不對？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:26.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:31.970000+08:00","text":"我們可以更好的規劃財政預算，現在完全靠中央給，我們要還到什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:31.970000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:34.312000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:34.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:37.574000+08:00","text":"你們的錢只是建設，苗栗永遠在負債。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:39.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:46.124000+08:00","text":"債務的部分，因為苗栗過往債務事實上是有超限，目前來說，在地方政府努力下已經有降低很多了，那整個是財政紀律沒有維持……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:46.124000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:47.505000+08:00","text":"這個問題當然就是財劃法不公平，就是沒有劃出來，它當初的設計有問題，因為太多年沒有修改了，已經不符合我們現在的需求了。","quality":0.208},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:47.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:48.705000+08:00","text":"不會，我覺得這個部分在一般性的補助款，主計總處也有給予支持……","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:48.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:49.125000+08:00","text":"那我再問啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:10:49.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:10:50.425000+08:00","text":"你不要講了，現在假如立法院通過之後，你們要怎麼辦？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:11:09.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:11:13.137000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個是一個高度共識的法案才可以……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:11:13.137000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:11:14.698000+08:00","text":"所以不要再提釋憲……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:11:14.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:11:27.685000+08:00","text":"雖然過去幾年財劃法沒有做過任何的修訂，但是中央對地方的補助是逐年一再的增加，剛剛部長也講到了，明年度我們增加高達900億，一般的補助……","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:11:27.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:11:42.139000+08:00","text":"我們中央國稅的部分成長超過一倍，中央總預算已經突破3兆了，可是地方稅收的成長率卻只有13%，而且法定支出越來越多，你懂我意思嗎？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:11:42.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:11:47.720000+08:00","text":"你這樣造成地方真的是非常的辛苦，你錢通通抓在中央，聽話的給你，不聽話的不給你……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:11:48.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:12:04.104000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，我們對一般補助、統籌分配款都有相當的挹注給地方，而且會逐年的增加，過去的數字我請部長再說明一下，像今年跟明年，我們明年又增加的相當大，今年實際上也增加了對地方的補助……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:12:04.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:12:09.304000+08:00","text":"所以院長您的意思是財劃法這一次你還是不準備動了，你們準備不調了？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:12:09.304000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:12:10.785000+08:00","text":"還在討論當中。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:12:10.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:12:15.010000+08:00","text":"我覺得要有充分的討論，而且要有共識，這樣子通過才有意義，如果只是……","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:12:15.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:12:16.691000+08:00","text":"你說的這些縣市你們找來溝通，你找誰來溝通？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:12:21.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:12:36.844000+08:00","text":"各地方政府以及部會都有來，我們在分配的指標上，在財政努力還有基本建設需求這部分都已經做過討論，而且有初步的成果，後續對於權重還有調整係數的部分必須都還要做精緻的規劃。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:12:36.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:12:56.676000+08:00","text":"我這樣講，當然現在立法院的那個版本到底適不適用，這個我不多講，但是我認為大家要出來談，你來談，大家才會有空間，不是說一定要照立法院的版本，你把你們的立場講出來，但是你一定要願意退，你懂我意思嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:12:56.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:12:58.319000+08:00","text":"你不能說我就是這樣子，我就不跟你談。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:12:59.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:13:03.249000+08:00","text":"這不是中央退的問題，是中央、地方一起進步的問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:13:03.249000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:13:04.249000+08:00","text":"你該分出來的還是要分出來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:13:03.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:13:20.676000+08:00","text":"我們一起進步，就是中央會用更多的資源挹注在需要的地方縣市，我們絕對不是用人口比例來做唯一的標準，剛剛部長講了很多，有它各種的條件算出來，這是一個複雜的財政資源分配的計算工程。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:13:22.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:13:34.217000+08:00","text":"我認為現在臺灣的政治氛圍，我希望大家能夠坐下來好好談，你們如果不談，這個案子還是會通過，那通過的時候，我們要請我們的大法官保姆來保護你們嗎？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:13:34.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:13:41.860000+08:00","text":"所以立法院通過的東西，你們都不承認，是不是你乾脆請大法官出來，把立法院講的都不算就好了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:13:42.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:13:53.757000+08:00","text":"我當然希望立法、行政兩院的互動能夠非常的平實而且能夠依照各種法律來進行，院際分立這個問題要非常的遵守……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:13:53.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:14:01.679000+08:00","text":"我真的是希望臺灣要更好，我真的希望臺灣更好、地方更好，我也不希望看到藍綠惡鬥，我們希望我們大家一起努力往前走，好不好？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-01T11:14:03.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:14:09.500000+08:00","text":"是，我們當然希望中央跟地方大家都一起好，所以在整個分配的機制上，我們必須要做更詳細跟細緻的規劃。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:14:09.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:14:18.266000+08:00","text":"部長請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:14:18.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:14:40.711000+08:00","text":"院長，我再請問一下，我們全面開放福島5縣市的食品，你們的理由是回歸科學，從2011年到現在，邊境檢驗輻射23.5萬多批，檢測結果均符合我國標準及日本標準，不合格為0，你有沒有告訴大家日本的檢驗批數是多少？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:14:42.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:14:50.988000+08:00","text":"現在狀況是日本禁止的，我國就禁止，在周遭5縣原來有一些禁止的，所以我們現在用雙證件的方式來檢驗它……","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:14:51.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:14:55.630000+08:00","text":"所以我們是聽日本的、跟著日本的腳步走？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:14:56.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:00.911000+08:00","text":"日本說吃，就是可以吃；日本說不能吃，我們就不能吃，是這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:00.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:01.992000+08:00","text":"不是，因為這還是符合國際的檢驗標準，日方它自己……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:04.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:06.353000+08:00","text":"我看了一下報告，從110年到112年6月，日本檢驗的批數總共是183萬4,681批，這期間驗了21萬1,370批，也就是說，我們的這個比例只有九分之一。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:25.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:25.548000+08:00","text":"我們是在我們的邊境……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:25.548000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:26.548000+08:00","text":"我們驗了大概就12%，對嘛？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:25.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:26.748000+08:00","text":"我們是在我們的邊境檢驗，13年來我們在我們邊境檢驗的數量就是剛剛委員說的……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:26.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:27.548000+08:00","text":"你有沒有檢驗到輻射？沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:27.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:29.769000+08:00","text":"13年來邊境檢驗的23.5萬批次都符合我們現在的標準，這個也跟國際接軌。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:29.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:15:32.409000+08:00","text":"我再問一下，靜岡縣的抹茶，靜岡還不是福島五縣市，它今年2月到7月在百分之十幾的抽驗率中，就抽出兩批有輻射。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:15:56.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:05.945000+08:00","text":"除了日本禁止的之外，原來我們禁止的，我們還是會採取雙證件的方式，第一個它的產地；第二個它的輻射證明，會用雙證件來審查。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:08.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:21.956000+08:00","text":"我覺得是這樣啦，人民的標準只有0跟1，沒有什麼一點點，你只能告訴他這個能不能吃，邱部長，你應該好好把這個把關好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:23.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:27.727000+08:00","text":"這是我們第一個原則，我們優先食品安全。","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:27.727000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:28.727000+08:00","text":"我們民眾食安的問題是最優先的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:27.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:33.412000+08:00","text":"優先食品安全，那是以科學的證據以及跟國際接軌，這個是共通的標準。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:33.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:48.563000+08:00","text":"我曾經看到一篇報導，我們對日本很好，我們的毛豆，進口到他們的關稅是百分之六點多，其他國家是百分之四點多，他其實也沒有對我們很好。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:48.563000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:49.563000+08:00","text":"院長，所以我覺得該怎麼樣就怎麼樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:49.563000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:50.563000+08:00","text":"有關農產品，互相之間，這種進口關稅以及其他產品，我覺得我們有空間，就會繼續爭取，讓大家能夠在平等互惠的原則底下……對啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:50.563000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:51.563000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說，如果今天我們進的關稅比別人低，當然你們有一些去談了，但是不能夠犧牲我們民眾的健康。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:51.563000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:52.563000+08:00","text":"絕對不會，食品安全是第一優先的考量。好啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:16:49.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:16:49.689000+08:00","text":"我時間剩下40秒。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:18.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:26.825000+08:00","text":"最後，院長，我們碳費審議的作業，現在決定大概是從300塊開始，還是……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:27.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:32.311000+08:00","text":"我們還有自主減量，還有一些優惠措施，明年會開始計算。明年？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:32.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:32.832000+08:00","text":"已經出來了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:32.832000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:35.946000+08:00","text":"彭部長，講一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:35.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:41.572000+08:00","text":"報告委員，10月7號有最後一次的審議委員會，預計那時優惠費率應該會出來。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:41.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:42.534000+08:00","text":"您預計是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:43.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:46.138000+08:00","text":"目前我看到委員的討論，大概是100塊上下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:48.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:48.881000+08:00","text":"對，應該會先這樣走嘛？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:49.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:50.483000+08:00","text":"對，有一個範圍。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:50.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:55.389000+08:00","text":"你要循序漸進，不要讓我們的企業大家都沒辦法接受，大家都跑掉了怎麼辦？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:55.389000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:17:58.330333+08:00","text":"對，我們的確是這樣做的，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2024-10-01T11:17:58.330333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:18:01.271667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-01T11:18:01.271667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:18:04.213000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-01T11:18:04.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-01T11:18:05.116000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝邱委員，也謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-01T11:18:05.616000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:18:15.901714+08:00","text":"報告院會，現在在議場2樓旁聽的是雲林縣斗南鎮里長聯誼會的朋友，是不是鎮長也有來？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-01T11:18:16.201714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:18:21.630286+08:00","text":"我們在此歡迎斗南鎮的里長聯誼會，還有鎮長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-01T11:18:21.930286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-01T11:18:26.787429+08:00","text":"接下來我們繼續質詢，請蘇巧慧委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-01T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:47:22 - 11:18:08","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第2次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢）","gazette":{"lineno":713,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時47分）主席，麻煩請院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長好。我想問一下，您在宣布內閣人事的時候說過支持客家朋友的權益及客家文化的保存是我們執政黨長期以來的一個目標，我身為客家人，聽到是非常的高興，也滿感動的，但是最近教育部說行政院要把閩南語改成臺語，我就覺得很奇怪，我請教一下院長，客語是臺灣的語言嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我曾經說過幾次，這個都是國家語言，我們就用國家語言來認定所有在這裡通用的語言。"],["邱委員鎮軍：原住民語言也是……"],["卓院長榮泰：包括手語都是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：剛剛我看到陳玉珍委員也提到他們的金門話、金門語言也算是我們臺灣的語言，既然通通都是，那為什麼行政院這一次要把閩南語特別改成臺語呢？"],["李部長遠：我可以回答嗎？"],["邱委員鎮軍：可以。"],["李部長遠：我覺得今天會有這個規定是因為早期大家獨尊華語，把所有其他語言都消滅，這個語言法是要把一些要被消滅的語言重新恢復，所以才會有這個法，那麼全部加一個「臺灣」是因為……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你說閩南語會被消滅啊？"],["李部長遠：差不多啊，其實會講閩南語的人不多。今天我們講閩南語也好、臺語也好，的確是跟過去比起來，差不多四十幾歲以下的人就不會講了，閩南語或者臺語的確一直在消滅中，所以我們會訂這個法，其實是想把所有在臺灣的語言都變成國家語言，以前我們的國家語言是華語嘛！"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以您是覺得客家話跟原住民語都不重要嗎？"],["李部長遠：同時在消失，所以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊！那為什麼這些沒有一起編列……"],["李部長遠：對於客家或者原住民語的消失跟文化保存，我們專門設了委員會，其實對於整個語言今天大家會有爭辯，都來自於早期我們獨尊華語，把它定義成國語，其他語言都慢慢被消失。其實我們的語言法就是這麼簡單，現在的國家語言是保障沒看到……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我也看到我們國家語言發展報告的網站，特別標註我們行政院請各機關優先使用臺灣原住民語言、臺灣客語、臺灣臺語，還有馬祖語、臺灣手語等等，都算是。當然，我也認同我們生長在中華民國這塊土地上，所有的族群都是臺灣人，所以每個族群用的語言都是我們臺灣話，也是臺語，尤其在教育上，文化、藝術不應該有政治的考量來介入。"],["李部長遠：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望大家一視同仁，因為都是住在這一塊土地，好不好？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個可以把它編進去，我們可以把它編在……"],["李部長遠：是，我們會公平對待所有語言。"],["邱委員鎮軍：客委會，你認同嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：委員好，委員好，委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你認同剛才講的這個嗎？當時你怎麼沒出來講話？"],["古主任委員秀妃：有，我們有出來表達，我們有出來表達，就是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：在哪裡表達？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我們在媒體上也有說過，就是基於名從主人……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你可以講客家話嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：可以、可以。就是過去我們講的河洛人，他們講河洛話，他們自己本身就說「我說臺語」這樣，所以他們長期都這樣講，現在就是名從主人，稱為臺灣臺語，是這樣。同樣地，我們也尊重客家人對河洛人，因為我們就說它是河洛話，不會說它是臺語，所以自稱跟他稱我們都會尊重，這其實就包含所有的族群尊重跟包容的特性。"],["邱委員鎮軍：主委，我相信是這樣，我希望你站在我們客家人的立場上，為我們客家鄉親、客家人多爭取，不要被人說看不起……"],["古主任委員秀妃：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為我們越來越弱勢，年輕人現在說真的越來越少人會講客家話，我們在苗栗、我們在地方上，我只要跑行程，我一定講客家話，我一定講客家話。"],["古主任委員秀妃：是，這需要大家努力。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為這是我們的母語，不能說我們不記得，我們一定要帶頭，尤其客家委員會是我們一個很重要的單位。我再問一件事情，為什麼我們現在沒看到客委會副主委？"],["古主任委員秀妃：因為這個部分有去找，但是很多……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我記得以前是這樣，主委是南客，我們副主委就要北客，對嗎？北客做主委，副主委就要到南客找，我也認同這樣，為什麼到現在我們北客沒人才，是不是？這是你決定，還是上面決定的？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我們可以來……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你可以決定嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我們可以來找人才、請人才。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我問主委，你可以決定嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：聘用的權力還是要由院長……"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是要院長決定。副主委是要院長決定嗎？還是要……"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得我還有很大的遺憾，就是古主委來之後，我們一直想看他自己的狀況來填補一位副主委協助他，到目前還沒有適當的人選。"],["邱委員鎮軍：外界直在猜測，是不是北客沒有我們賴清德總統的人？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有，剛剛我聽出來了，委員有說到南客、北客，因為古主委來自南部，我們一直希望在北部找一位熟悉地方、熟悉文化、也熟悉公共體系的人。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們是這樣講，我現在是希望我們客家、客委會也好，客委會現在無論主委是南客、還是北客，我們都歡迎，只要是為客家人做事情，我們當然全部都支持，只是我希望在北客、我們副主委的部分趕快提出來，讓我們多一個溝通的管道，這樣對主委來講，我們地方上才能夠發展得更平均一點，這樣可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的、好的，我們儘快來處理……"],["古主任委員秀妃：是，我們來找人才。"],["卓院長榮泰：我也請主委能夠尋找一個優秀的人選來出任副主委。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，請兩位部長回去。院長，我聽說了，本週五要喝一個溫暖的咖啡，當然，我希望這一杯咖啡能夠融化你的心，能夠把我們立法院的立場讓你了解，我也希望你不要點到冰的，你要儘量喝熱一點的，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：上週五咖啡很溫暖，已經喝過了，本週五希望有更溫暖的大火鍋。"],["邱委員鎮軍：事實上，查核中心告訴大家，預算被退回、福利沒了、津貼領不到是假消息，但民進黨網軍、民意代表一直在散播假的消息，就這個部分你要不要跟大家說明一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個，網路上的訊息指責的是哪一方面的假消息，這個要進一步……"],["邱委員鎮軍：就是福利會沒有、津貼會領不到這個部分，院長，你認為呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為預算整體到目前對我來講，明年的預算到現在為止就是空的，因為還沒有付委，付委之後實質審查就會產生……"],["邱委員鎮軍：一般性的支出是不會影響的。"],["卓院長榮泰：但新增的事項、新增的計畫就完全停擺。"],["邱委員鎮軍：跟原來的福利、原來的津貼有什麼差別？有什麼不一樣呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：重點在於新增的，明年有很多……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對嘛！你不要把這些事情用混淆的方式模糊焦點，整個這樣帶動這個風向……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們從來沒有這樣表達過，我們說預算是整體的，希望能夠實質審查。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然啊！我舉個例子，就像我們小學的時候寫作業交了作業，但是我們寫錯了，老師叫我回去改，當然也是應該，這是很正常的，對不對？不能說寫錯了，你沒有依法編列預算，你沒有照著法規編列預算的時候，我們跟你講，然後你卻跟我說是老師不對。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們預算編列制定的過程、程序是有它一定的，行政院負責制定和編列，立法院負責審議，在制定的過程當中，行政院有整體的考量，如果一個提案或一個法律就能夠增加一些預算的話……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那要立法院幹什麼呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：那以後沒有辦法編預算，以後預算會膨脹到無法控制，因為今天這個委員會來一個……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我認同，院長講的都沒有錯，我認同你的論點，但是立法院也不會無限上綱地隨便編列預算，當然，你們是編列預算的單位，我們是審預算的單位，如果我們立了法造成國家財政預算沒有辦法編列的時候，你是不是就要主動出來溝通，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：當時我們希望不要朝那個方向跟結果發展，結果變成跟原意不一樣，所以會變成現在此例一開……"],["邱委員鎮軍：原住民的預算才二十幾億，這會影響嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是錢多錢少的問題，而且你要想想看，從三萬塊的補償一下子增加為六萬，比例上是百分之百的增加。"],["邱委員鎮軍：它已經十幾年沒有編列了、沒有修改了。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯，但是也未曾有一項是這樣子，況且這應該是由行政機關……"],["邱委員鎮軍：當時的時空背景、當時的通膨也好，或是以當時的匯率來講也沒有那麼高，現在錢越來越小，我們只是把它提高，請問原民會，主委還在帛琉玩啊？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：委員好。是，擔任總統特使參加帛琉建國30週年。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你剛才講到你的意思是不足的錢要用原住民綜合發展基金來補，是嗎？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：這個主計總處在105年的時候有做出函釋，有關於禁伐補償的工作就是由公務預算跟原住民綜合發展基金對半來負擔，不足的部分，未來基金有不敷使用的部分……"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在基金有多少？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：抱歉！委員，我沒聽清楚。"],["邱委員鎮軍：原住民的發展基金。"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：我們現在還有二十幾億。"],["邱委員鎮軍：28億是嗎？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：我們公務預算編列28億。"],["邱委員鎮軍：禁伐補償條例就要42億，你們說會慢慢如期如額來發放，這是你講過的嗎？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：這個部分我們會合法合理的來做。"],["邱委員鎮軍：什麼叫做合法合理？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：就是依法來辦理。"],["邱委員鎮軍：依立法院的法還是行政院的法？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：我想行政機關就是依法來處理我們的政務。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你有編預算嗎？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：有，公務預算編列28億。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不夠啊！剩下的怎麼辦？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：我們基金有相關的預算。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你是挪用，還是編列？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：不是挪用。"],["邱委員鎮軍：基金只有28億，不是嗎？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：我們的基金管理辦法裡面支出的工作項目就包含禁伐補償工作這個項目。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是你只有28億，不是嗎？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：公務預算28億，我們的基金有20億可以去支應。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以可以發放就對了？"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：我們會合法合理來做這個工作。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我不希望這變成一個詐騙案，好不好？我希望說這個事情趕快進行。"],["谷縱．喀勒芳安副主任委員：政府不會詐騙。"],["邱委員鎮軍：副主委請回。我再請教院長，上個會期我們在6月的時候有質詢過，本席向院長請教過我們桃竹苗大矽谷計畫，當然地方上是非常重視這個案子，我想請教目前的進度到哪裡？"],["卓院長榮泰：請劉主委回答。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：報告委員，這個進度是昨天院已經核下來了，所以本會就會準備行文到各部會開始進入規劃跟可研等進度。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以現在已經剛通過就對了？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對！"],["邱委員鎮軍：那苗栗的部分現在怎麼規劃，您這邊有計畫嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：苗栗像頭份、竹南、後龍都有匡列在裡面。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這三塊地都有匡列在裡面？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：Yes，是的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為這對地方來講是非常重要的一件事情，包含桃竹苗整個廊帶，如果能夠發展起來，尤其對苗栗來講，苗南地區特別需要這樣的一個辦法，聽說你們有編列兩百億的預算是嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：主要細部還是要看各部會的規劃。"],["邱委員鎮軍：各部會是誰？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我們這邊是上位政策做整體桃竹苗的規劃以後進入細部規劃，譬如說經濟部會規劃產業園區，然後各單位像交通部等等都會有各項的建設。"],["邱委員鎮軍：請部長講一下。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，在後龍產業籌備用地的部分，苗栗縣政府已經完成設置可行性的評估報告書之後，將依產創條例儘速審查，並函轉行政院審議核定為重大建設，所以這個案子在進行中。"],["邱委員鎮軍：已經進行了啦！"],["郭部長智輝：對！"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望儘快啦，好不好？讓地方上能夠有一個依據，其實地方上是非常期待，也希望這個案子趕快確定，我們可以先做其他的事情，讓我們地方知道，再讓地方來配合，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：兩位部長請回。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，這就是新增計畫。"],["邱委員鎮軍：新增的嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：對！一定要有預算才能執行。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望這樣子啦！這也是賴總統選前的一個政見，我們一定是全力支持、一定全力支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以拜託委員支持，這個新增計畫才能夠如期去推動。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝院長。院長，我再請教一下，你有沒有覺得潘孟安秘書長是一位優秀的屏東縣長？"],["卓院長榮泰：優秀的什麼？"],["邱委員鎮軍：屏東縣長。"],["卓院長榮泰：他在縣長任期內評比很高，地方民眾對他的支持度也很高。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我也很佩服他啦！他把限制嚴格的農1劃在公有地，4萬公頃的優良私有農地劃在農2，還把應該劃為農5的都計內農地全部改劃到城鄉發展區，在我看來他非常勇於挑戰中央，而且最後還讓中央妥協，你們說地方政府作為規劃主體，屏東農地設置的爭議中，中央向地方妥協是符合國土規劃原則，這句話沒有錯吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：國土規劃是整體國家土地充分利用、資源利用的一個規劃。"],["邱委員鎮軍：既然權限在地方，還有縣市也還沒交，有的也還沒審過，其他縣市如果比照屏東這樣劃，您會支持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這要地方政府、農業單位跟內政部都充分地協調出一個合理的狀況，請部長說明。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，現在地方政府在劃的農業發展區，不只是農1、農2，農1到農5的劃設區域，它是有其相關的規範跟指引，最主要是由原來的特農或一般農為基底去做轉成的，至於地方政府劃出來以後，很多東西是可以有調整的空間，我們會依據實際狀況跟縣政府當地的產業發展需求而做一個溝通。"],["邱委員鎮軍：您講的意思是每個縣市不同喔？"],["陳部長駿季：因為到目前為止，整個農地是用總量管制的概念，但是並沒有規定地方政府一定要劃多少，我們有一個劃設指引，劃設指引如果有一些調整的時候，我們可以跟地方政府一起努力來做一個最有效地調整，最主要是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以苗栗縣政府如果發現有問題、有爭議的時候，是不是可以來做一個調整？可以嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：對！是可以經過溝通以後去做一個調整。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我憑良心講，因為苗栗縣五個水庫，影響了非常多農民的權益，農業影響非常大，再加上石虎保育又匡了很多土地，不好動啦！因為管制又更嚴了，現在再加上國土計畫法，我希望我們中央一定要多為我們苗栗的鄉親來考量，因為說真的，務農的人他們日子過得真的不是很好，當土地越來越沒有價值的時候，你要叫他們怎麼活下去？我希望我們中央能夠考量到這一點……"],["陳部長駿季：會，我們會持續……"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為苗栗比較特殊，我更希望苗栗有一種特別的規劃方式，這樣可以嗎？"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，只要苗栗縣政府把相關的國土計畫法送上來，那麼我們內政部會秉持相關的原則來跟苗栗縣做討論，所有的各縣市基本上也都是這樣子。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，那我再請問，你們現在急著明年要實施嗎？"],["董次長建宏：我們現在奉行政院的指示，我們會積極跟各縣市政府溝通，我們會依法去執行。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得現在我們藍綠的委員，大家都非常重視這個問題，因為地方上確實聽到非常多的聲音，我希望我們行政院這邊能夠聽取民意，如果能夠把這個事情暫緩兩年，我們不是不執行，只是說暫緩兩年，讓大家有更多一點的時間來溝通，我覺得這才是好的啦！一個這麼重要的法案如果直接推動的時候，如果沒有配套、沒有做好，真的會引起民怨。"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，第一個，站在內政部的立場，我們當然要依法執行；第二個就是說，行政院已經有指示，我們會進行全面的跟地方溝通……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們立法院就已經給你們下台階了嘛！對不對？"],["董次長建宏：對，相關的溝通也包括跟大院這邊的溝通，大院這邊有什麼決定，我們會遵從，我們會積極跟地方上去協商討論……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我相信這個案子一定會過啦！就是說延緩兩年這個部分，我們已經給你台階下了，那你們趕快趁這兩年時間趕快去處理好不好？"],["董次長建宏：我們會積極努力去處理相關法令的修訂，包括子法，也跟委員報告，其實苗栗縣跟嘉義市也已經在媒體上告訴大家說他們會送國土計畫法進來。"],["陳部長駿季：我在這邊也跟委員補充說明，就是委員關心的，就是剛才講的石虎保育區之類的，農業部對於整個農業政策的推動跟協助，不會因為國土計畫的改變、如期或是延後而有所延宕，所以針對這個部分，像石虎保育區的話，我們也在規劃所謂的生態給付的部分，來表彰這些農民守護這片土地、守護這個生態的貢獻。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得政策推動現在一定要因地制宜啦，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：讓我們地方上能夠更加地和諧，這才是我們要的，因為老百姓真的是很可憐，你如果一個法令定下去之後，搞不好他就因為這樣子整個生計就受到影響，所以我們應該要從長計議，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，請回。院長，不好意思，我再問，我們之前有問到財劃法的部分，我們尊重行政院，展現了很大的善意嘛！在上個會期我們也有先暫緩一下，也希望我們行政院能夠提出政院版的財劃法修正案，目前您行政院這邊有沒有什麼新的做法嗎？有沒有新的計畫？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員應該了解財劃法本身是一個非常龐大的計算工程，財政部在8月份跟9月份分別跟地方政府繼續做很多次的溝通，我想像即使到目前為止也沒有辦法得出一個大家都能夠接受的方式出來，我會請財政部繼續來談這個事情，請財政部來說明一下好嗎？"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得不會沒有辦法啦！只要行政院願意撥一些空間出來，大家怎麼會不願意呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，這是水平分配的問題，請財政部說明。"],["邱委員鎮軍：照人口比例去分就好了嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我想財劃法的修正涉及到財政的資源重分配，對各級政府來說都是影響非常重大的，所以我們在做財劃法修正的時候，第一個，除了要照顧地方政府的需要，同時中央的財政也一定要維持一定的韌性，過往有5次，從88年到現在有5次送立法院審議，都沒有能夠修正通過，就是因為沒有共識，沒有共識主要是因為分配的機制大家都還有爭議……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那個時候是送立法院對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：所以這一次我們會在分配機制上，我們認為要充分地討論，凝聚最大的共識。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你那時候是送立法院對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：5次都是送到立法院。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那這一次立法院如果通過了，你們遵不遵守？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們認為應該要審慎地規劃來推動……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你看那時候又說送立法院沒辦法解決，那這一次我們來幫你解決嘛！對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：如果是很貿然，為了要求快通過的話，事實上會造成更大的爭議，未來在公平分配上其實會影響更大，也跟委員報告，財劃法雖然沒有能夠修正……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們不能說……"],["莊部長翠雲：但是我們在對地方政府的財政挹注事實上是成長很多，尤其114年比113年，加上統籌加上一般補助款會增加到900億，是歷年來最高，已經達到七千多億……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你不要講那個啦！我就覺得我苗栗沒有補到錢啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：什麼？"],["邱委員鎮軍：我苗栗就是沒有補到啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：有啊！苗栗也是有的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你那是一般建設，我們講難聽一點啦！如果錢給我們自己來規劃，苗栗縣因為負債，對不對？我們可以更好的規劃財政預算，現在完全靠中央給，我們要還到什麼時候？對不對？你們的錢只是建設，苗栗永遠在負債。"],["莊部長翠雲：債務的部分，因為苗栗過往債務事實上是有超限，目前來說，在地方政府努力下已經有降低很多了，那整個是財政紀律沒有維持……"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個問題當然就是財劃法不公平，就是沒有劃出來，它當初的設計有問題，因為太多年沒有修改了，已經不符合我們現在的需求了。"],["莊部長翠雲：不會，我覺得這個部分在一般性的補助款，主計總處也有給予支持……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我再問啦！你不要講了，現在假如立法院通過之後，你們要怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得這個是一個高度共識的法案才可以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以不要再提釋憲……"],["卓院長榮泰：雖然過去幾年財劃法沒有做過任何的修訂，但是中央對地方的補助是逐年一再的增加，剛剛部長也講到了，明年度我們增加高達900億，一般的補助……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們中央國稅的部分成長超過一倍，中央總預算已經突破3兆了，可是地方稅收的成長率卻只有13%，而且法定支出越來越多，你懂我意思嗎？你這樣造成地方真的是非常的辛苦，你錢通通抓在中央，聽話的給你，不聽話的不給你……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有，我們對一般補助、統籌分配款都有相當的挹注給地方，而且會逐年的增加，過去的數字我請部長再說明一下，像今年跟明年，我們明年又增加的相當大，今年實際上也增加了對地方的補助……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以院長您的意思是財劃法這一次你還是不準備動了，你們準備不調了？"],["卓院長榮泰：還在討論當中。"],["莊部長翠雲：我覺得要有充分的討論，而且要有共識，這樣子通過才有意義，如果只是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你說的這些縣市你們找來溝通，你找誰來溝通？"],["莊部長翠雲：各地方政府以及部會都有來，我們在分配的指標上，在財政努力還有基本建設需求這部分都已經做過討論，而且有初步的成果，後續對於權重還有調整係數的部分必須都還要做精緻的規劃。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我這樣講，當然現在立法院的那個版本到底適不適用，這個我不多講，但是我認為大家要出來談，你來談，大家才會有空間，不是說一定要照立法院的版本，你把你們的立場講出來，但是你一定要願意退，你懂我意思嗎？你不能說我就是這樣子，我就不跟你談。"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是中央退的問題，是中央、地方一起進步的問題……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你該分出來的還是要分出來。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一起進步，就是中央會用更多的資源挹注在需要的地方縣市，我們絕對不是用人口比例來做唯一的標準，剛剛部長講了很多，有它各種的條件算出來，這是一個複雜的財政資源分配的計算工程。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我認為現在臺灣的政治氛圍，我希望大家能夠坐下來好好談，你們如果不談，這個案子還是會通過，那通過的時候，我們要請我們的大法官保姆來保護你們嗎？所以立法院通過的東西，你們都不承認，是不是你乾脆請大法官出來，把立法院講的都不算就好了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我當然希望立法、行政兩院的互動能夠非常的平實而且能夠依照各種法律來進行，院際分立這個問題要非常的遵守……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我真的是希望臺灣要更好，我真的希望臺灣更好、地方更好，我也不希望看到藍綠惡鬥，我們希望我們大家一起努力往前走，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們當然希望中央跟地方大家都一起好，所以在整個分配的機制上，我們必須要做更詳細跟細緻的規劃。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長請回。院長，我再請問一下，我們全面開放福島5縣市的食品，你們的理由是回歸科學，從2011年到現在，邊境檢驗輻射23.5萬多批，檢測結果均符合我國標準及日本標準，不合格為0，你有沒有告訴大家日本的檢驗批數是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在狀況是日本禁止的，我國就禁止，在周遭5縣原來有一些禁止的，所以我們現在用雙證件的方式來檢驗它……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以我們是聽日本的、跟著日本的腳步走？日本說吃，就是可以吃；日本說不能吃，我們就不能吃，是這樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，因為這還是符合國際的檢驗標準，日方它自己……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看了一下報告，從110年到112年6月，日本檢驗的批數總共是183萬4,681批，這期間驗了21萬1,370批，也就是說，我們的這個比例只有九分之一。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是在我們的邊境……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們驗了大概就12%，對嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是在我們的邊境檢驗，13年來我們在我們邊境檢驗的數量就是剛剛委員說的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你有沒有檢驗到輻射？沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：13年來邊境檢驗的23.5萬批次都符合我們現在的標準，這個也跟國際接軌。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我再問一下，靜岡縣的抹茶，靜岡還不是福島五縣市，它今年2月到7月在百分之十幾的抽驗率中，就抽出兩批有輻射。"],["卓院長榮泰：除了日本禁止的之外，原來我們禁止的，我們還是會採取雙證件的方式，第一個它的產地；第二個它的輻射證明，會用雙證件來審查。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得是這樣啦，人民的標準只有0跟1，沒有什麼一點點，你只能告訴他這個能不能吃，邱部長，你應該好好把這個把關好。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們第一個原則，我們優先食品安全。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們民眾食安的問題是最優先的問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：優先食品安全，那是以科學的證據以及跟國際接軌，這個是共通的標準。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我曾經看到一篇報導，我們對日本很好，我們的毛豆，進口到他們的關稅是百分之六點多，其他國家是百分之四點多，他其實也沒有對我們很好。院長，所以我覺得該怎麼樣就怎麼樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：有關農產品，互相之間，這種進口關稅以及其他產品，我覺得我們有空間，就會繼續爭取，讓大家能夠在平等互惠的原則底下……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦！我的意思是說，如果今天我們進的關稅比別人低，當然你們有一些去談了，但是不能夠犧牲我們民眾的健康。"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對不會，食品安全是第一優先的考量。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦！我時間剩下40秒。最後，院長，我們碳費審議的作業，現在決定大概是從300塊開始，還是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們還有自主減量，還有一些優惠措施，明年會開始計算。"],["邱委員鎮軍：明年？已經出來了嗎？彭部長，講一下。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，10月7號有最後一次的審議委員會，預計那時優惠費率應該會出來。"],["邱委員鎮軍：您預計是多少？"],["彭部長啓明：目前我看到委員的討論，大概是100塊上下。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，應該會先這樣走嘛？"],["彭部長啓明：對，有一個範圍。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你要循序漸進，不要讓我們的企業大家都沒辦法接受，大家都跑掉了怎麼辦？"],["彭部長啓明：對，我們的確是這樣做的，謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝邱委員，也謝謝卓院長。","報告院會，現在在議場2樓旁聽的是雲林縣斗南鎮里長聯誼會的朋友，是不是鎮長也有來？我們在此歡迎斗南鎮的里長聯誼會，還有鎮長。","接下來我們繼續質詢，請蘇巧慧委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":204,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-2","speakers":["江啟臣","楊瓊瓔","吳秉叡","陳玉珍","王定宇","邱鎮軍","蘇巧慧","吳宗憲","楊曜","游顥","蘇清泉","林淑芬","廖偉翔","許宇甄","張宏陸"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2024-10-01"],"gazette_id":"1137601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第2次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137601_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}