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包含這個海體也已經三四十年了這個整個結構都已經有問題所以也必須這個海體的部分也必須從來來檢視我們會全面來檢視那除了這個海體跟離岸鐵工程之外那我還是要再麻煩一下我們經濟部水利署因為我們現在我們也喊包含加東"},{"start":280.135,"end":280.516,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":297.756,"end":297.816,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":313.037,"end":334.095,"text":"報告委員這一部分我想我們會因為這個極端氣候然後造成現在的這個颱風這樣的一個變遷我想這個是我們第一次碰到那我們會根據現在的這個狀況然後會趕快來瞭解深入瞭解以後然後會提報然後會向院長報告然後提出一個解決的方案"},{"start":334.79,"end":357.502,"text":"因為屏東縣其實從過去我們八年八百億到六年六百億的治水預算已經也幫屏東做了很多的一個治水的一個工程那確實也造成我們以前所謂很多的明星的淹水熱點現在都已經慢慢的其實大幅的改善但是因為這些還有幾座的一些這個老舊的抽水站的設備這個五年一回比外走力比較多"},{"start":358.643,"end":360.385,"text":"這一部分我們會請這個水利署趕快加速來了解再來提報"},{"start":375.85,"end":397.86,"text":"各位委員報告明後兩天如果不妨礙到地方第一線的救災我們會到第一線去看看實際上的狀況以及準備來善後水退了重建正要開始我們要全力來爭取足夠的預算來支應各地的需求謝謝院長我們也期待院長趕快來所以下一張照片要讓院長看一下"},{"start":400.27,"end":400.43,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":424.124,"end":452.586,"text":"我們在蘇貞昌前院長的時候平中線是一個颱風容易侵襲的一個縣市所以當時針對我們的平俄公路有做了一個電纜地下化的工程所以這一次凱米颱風包含這次的山陀爾颱風恆春半島受停電的戶數就相對已經少了很多但是我們整個平安地區大停電的問題還是沒有改善那包含我們整個養殖專區他們現在面臨的就是"},{"start":453.506,"end":470.531,"text":"這個整個電纜只要電感一斷線 整個都停電這個一坨東西都幾百萬的這個一損失而言 這個不是只有幾百萬幾千萬這個整個產值的損失非常非常的大有沒有考慮這個整個針對我們養殖鑽區做一個電纜地消化的一個改善工程"},{"start":471.904,"end":486.233,"text":"報告委員 我想這個我們會加速評估但是這個我想你也清楚啦這個地下電纜的這個成本跟這個地上電纜的成本我們會看這個效益跟成本然後再提供給這個委員參考"},{"start":487.974,"end":490.136,"text":"我們會綜合來評估這一部分我們會盡快把這個結果跟委員報告"},{"start":512.095,"end":537.14,"text":"副部長說明一下我要向委員報告關於停電的部分 農業部有針對發電機做它的補助所以這個部分是第一部分就是說當電缺電的時候我們發電機可以啟動這是第一個部分那第二個部分就是我們也針對有關於養殖區的這些電纜是不是要地下化我們先前也啟動了一些調查"},{"start":538.28,"end":538.7,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":558.74,"end":558.96,"text":"﹚徐富癸﹚"},{"start":584.632,"end":610.205,"text":"部長謝謝你提到我下一個要提的問題我們如果趕快把海水公民站完成我們的鄉親不用把海港又到海景去取水因為這次很多水管因為海浪的關係整個都沖破了你現在沒辦法抽海水進來鹹度不夠魚也趕快洗完一樣的問題都會產生所以這邊要拜託院長如果我們的地下化有困難"},{"start":610.825,"end":611.285,"text":"發言委員：徐富癸"},{"start":627.64,"end":652.321,"text":"報告委員每次的災害之後我們都會產生也發現新的問題我們就必須來面對它將來如果我們衡量之後有這種防災的需要而且在技術上也是可行的那麼是不是地方政府來提出一個需求也提出一個配合的計畫那請經濟部台電再來就個案我們來做處理希望是區域性的而不是一家一家的"},{"start":653.361,"end":682.183,"text":"對 院長因為我們都有所謂的養殖生產區我們可以用這樣的方式來跟我們當地的生產區來溝通我們一戶一戶來做改善來做處理最起碼有個中繼的電力的一個系統像地下化還是加強它的發電的設備這個我想技術問題我們就請要拜託院長海水供應站也要趕快完成那些公路就不用再移完就直接從海水供應站可以直接處理阿銀我怎樣部長這個預算喔本市講到預算喔都很頭痛但是一定要面對的事情"},{"start":682.637,"end":684.618,"text":"另外還有一個造成的問題從上一次凱米颱風到這次山陀爾颱風造成的就是所謂一個漂流幕"},{"start":711.377,"end":716.819,"text":"我可不可以來說明一下特別是建拜紅開來以後從上游開始就有一些漂泥木一直往漁港這邊往河口"},{"start":737.725,"end":759.345,"text":"一個很重要的就是漂泥木在各部會都是認為屬地主義啦就是他漂到哪邊是屬於誰管但是農業部一直主動的跟縣市政府合作現在就是說縣市政府有開口合約那我們農業部的林保署跟我們的那個漁業署也有開口合約那以這個來講在漁港的部分我們就已經請開口合約叫人家進駐"},{"start":760.026,"end":760.306,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":773.852,"end":802.124,"text":"我現在知道的狀況是我們向延埔漁港我們是由恆春農會每年派熱資來載這路剛才很奇怪阿我們為什麼漁業署不能在地有開口合約我們是用開口合約而且我們是已經進駐在漁港裡面只要有那個出來特別是在東港延埔的部分那其他的漁港的部分我想我們也會比照就是希望說用開口合約的部分讓廠商直接去打撈上來而不是讓農會或其他的來處理"},{"start":803.806,"end":827.044,"text":"這個也要跟秦院長幫忙因為只要一發生這個風災這個漂流木光是討論誰要處理可能就是影響到很多的問題剛剛部長答覆過我們用開口合約進駐各港區在方式方面要用打撈的方式進駐把它撈起來對 開口合約廠商也要積極不是只有有合約沒有行動也沒有用對 是"},{"start":829.144,"end":836.177,"text":"那另外針對上次凱米颱風清洗之後﹐屏東縣政府提出的一個災損的重建金額高達8.2億"},{"start":837.523,"end":859.79,"text":"那這次山坨的颱風一樣也重創了屏東那所以屏東的許多建設需要我們中央全力來支持尤其我們許多的農民漁民一年的辛勞有可能瞬間化為無有尤其我們的基礎建設包含治水預算也好重建建設也好還有一些基礎建設的一些經費我們需要中央大力的來支持"},{"start":860.37,"end":885.108,"text":"那院長剛剛我想我們民進黨團也表達我們的立場我們不希望政爭我們也不希望這個因為所謂的一個政治的對抗影響到我們的民生所以前兩天我們我在跟我們的周縣長我們在訪寮看災的時候我們有一位我們的國民黨委員一到現場就當場被我們的鄉親"},{"start":887.034,"end":887.735,"text":"徹幹六條﹚徐富癸"},{"start":909.502,"end":909.622,"text":"徐富癸議員"},{"start":950.831,"end":951.091,"text":"徐富癸議員"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-04T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:43:00 - 11:58:55","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第3次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢）","gazette":{"lineno":731,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（11時43分）謝謝主席。我們有請卓院長、經濟部郭部長、農業部陳部長。"],["主席：卓院長，請備詢，經濟部長、農業部長，請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：徐委員好！在屏東這兩天非常辛苦，謝謝你。"],["徐委員富癸：院長及兩位部長，早安！誠如院長剛剛講的，這兩天高屏地區歷經了大災難，山陀兒颱風路徑詭異多變，讓很多我們的氣象專家也跌破眼鏡，同時也對我們高屏地區造成很大的損害。剛剛我們還在跟屏東通電話，截至目前為止，屏東還有四萬多戶停電，我們台電的同仁也很辛苦，全力在搶救，包含剛剛我們也請海巡的管主委緊急支援海巡的艦艇，把我們中油、台電、台水一些相關國營事業的同仁載到小琉球去，現在在搶救一些災情，我想雖然是遇到了這樣子的災難，但是後續針對屏東縣的一些重建工程，還有一些基礎建設，本席藉這個機會特別拜託院長及我們行政院的團隊要來大力的支持，讓屏東縣未來能夠更好。","首先，我們第一張照片先秀出來，院長，右手邊這張就是前兩天枋寮大庄海堤破損的照片，你看缺口的前端有一個叫做離岸堤，我要跟院長說明的是，在現在極端氣候的影響之下，我記得從潘前縣長及周縣長擔任立委到縣長的任內，一直都有向經濟部爭取離岸堤的建設，因為時代久遠，加上極端氣候天候的因素，離岸堤這個第一道防線的高度跟寬度已經不夠，沒辦法阻擋海浪，所以第一道被打破之後，第二道我們又緊急請第七河川分署吊消波塊，結果同樣也無法阻擋海浪的巨大侵襲，所以才會造成海堤的破損。在這邊要特別請教院長及拜託院長，針對我們沿線包含東港、林邊、佳冬、枋寮整個離岸堤的建設，是不是有必要重新全面檢討、重新全面建置，加強離岸的保護措施？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，雖然歷年來我們對於任何治山防洪工程做得非常、非常的多，但是面對這樣的極端氣候，來得非常快、又大又急，可能很多原來的設計、安全的係數，都不足以應付現在的狀況，我們需要全面提升，這也是為什麼明年度我們率先編列了大概550億系統性治水預算，希望能夠做比較有系統性的治水，雖然我覺得這個還是不夠，但至少我們馬上這樣開始，就緊急的部分先來處理。"],["徐委員富癸：院長，7月份凱米颱風的時候我就已經約了水利署跟縣政府的同仁到現場去看過，也準備爭取明年度的預算6,000萬來增加離岸堤，可是這一次來不及，海堤還是被沖破了。"],["卓院長榮泰：非常抱歉。"],["徐委員富癸：所以是不是請院長除了針對枋寮這一段之外，是不是能夠把整個屏東沿海鄉鎮的部分做全面的檢視跟盤點，我們一次把它到位好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們如果做得到，整個臺灣環島的地方我們都希望能夠有安全的維護。"],["徐委員富癸：對，也跟院長說明，這個海堤已經三、四十年了，整個結構都已經有問題，所以針對海堤的部分也必須全面來檢視，這要特別麻煩……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會全面來檢視。"],["徐委員富癸：除了海堤跟離岸堤的工程之外，我還是要再麻煩一下經濟部水利署，因為現在我們沿海包含佳冬、林邊有幾個抽水站年齡都已經二十幾年，他們原本設計的抽水容量已經沒辦法應付現在的豪大雨，所以現在面臨的狀況就是外面有大浪的衝襲，裡面有豪大雨造成的淹水我們要迅速的把它排出來，可是因為抽水站老舊、設備不足，造成抽水的量能不足，這部分是不是也請院長跟部長來支持全面更新屏東縣的抽水設備？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這一部分因為極端氣候，造成現在的颱風這樣的變遷我們是第一次碰到，我們會根據現在的狀況趕快來了解，深入了解以後會提報、向院長報告，然後提出一個解決的方案。"],["徐委員富癸：其實從過去8年800億到6年600億的治水預算，已經幫屏東做了很多的治水工程，確實以前很多的明星淹水熱點現在都已經慢慢的大幅改善，但是因為還有幾座老舊抽水站的設備，有的年紀比我的助理還要大，而且設備已經相當老舊，所以確實有必要馬上來替換，才能讓鄉親有個安心的環境。"],["郭部長智輝：這一部分我們會請水利署趕快加速了解再來提報。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，明、後兩天如果不妨礙到地方第一線的救災，我們會到第一線去，我會跟著部長到第一線去看看實際上的狀況以及怎麼來善後。水退了，重建正要開始，我們要全力爭取足夠的預算來支應各地的需求。"],["徐委員富癸：謝謝院長，我們也期待院長趕快來。","下一張照片要讓院長看一下，你看我們的鄉親因為海堤破了要堆沙包，他們非常擔心，從昨天停電到現在，他們準備了自己的發電機，但是發電機的油不夠，也容易燒壞，所以下一個議題就是要請院長特別來幫忙，針對屏東縣，我記得在蘇貞昌前院長的時候，屏東縣是一個颱風容易侵襲的縣市，當時針對我們的屏鵝公路有做了一個電纜地下化的工程，所以這次凱米颱風、包含山陀兒颱風來襲，恆春半島受停電的戶數就相對已經少了很多，但是我們整個屏南地區大停電的問題還是沒有改善。包含我們整個養殖專區，他們現在面臨的就是整個電纜只要電桿一斷線，整個都停電，一窟魚塭的魚都價值幾百萬，以損失而言，不是只有幾百萬、幾千萬，而是整個產值的損失非常、非常地大，有沒有考慮針對我們養殖專區做一個電纜地下化的改善工程？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們會加速評估，但是我想你也清楚地下電纜的成本跟地上電纜的成本，我們會看這個效益跟成本，然後再提供給委員參考，我們當然是……"],["徐委員富癸：部長，這涉及百姓的生命安全跟財產，可以用成本來考量嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：當然、當然，因為我的親戚也有很多人在這裡……"],["徐委員富癸：是啊，你自己是在地的，又是北旗尾的鄉親，你相當清楚我們這裡的情形。"],["郭部長智輝：是，我知道，我也有親戚在這裡做，但是我們會綜合來評估，這部分我們會儘快把結果跟委員報告。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳部長說明一下。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，關於停電的部分，農業部有針對發電機做補助，所以這個部分是第一部分，就是當缺電的時候，發電機可以啟動，這是第一個部分。","第二個部分就是我們針對有關於養殖區的電纜是不是要地下化，先前也啟動了一些調查，然後看看漁民的意願。現在這個意見有些認為反而不好，有些認為不錯，所以我們會再跟經濟部、台電公司去做專案的評估，某一些地區沒有經常淹水的部分就OK，有些地區如果經常淹水的時候，可能會造成一些地下電纜本身的維修困難，所以這個部分我們後續會去努力。","第三個部分是海水供應站的部分，我們在屏東地區，特別是剛才提到那個海堤破口的部分，其實我們這兩年也啟動了很多海水的供應，讓它變成一個專區，而不是由每一個養殖漁戶個別拉管，這樣的話，會讓整個養殖專區更有效率，以上。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，謝謝你提到我下一個要提的問題，我們如果趕快把海水供應站完成，我們的鄉親就不用把海水管拉到海邊去取水……"],["陳部長駿季：對，每一個自己去接……"],["徐委員富癸：這次很多水管因為海浪的關係，整個都被沖破了……"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["徐委員富癸：現在沒辦法抽海水進來，鹽度不夠，魚也一樣死光光，一樣的問題都會產生。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["徐委員富癸：所以這邊要拜託院長，如果我們的地下化有困難，是不是針對剛剛講的，發電機是一個初步的計畫，但是畢竟如果路沒通的時候，你也沒辦法在有油的時候出去買油，台電也沒辦法進來維修的時候怎麼辦？是不是針對這樣子的改善工程，我們要有一個更先進的做法？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，每次的災害之後，我們都會產生、也發現新的問題，我們就必須來面對它。將來如果我們衡量之後有這種防災的需要，而且在技術上也是可行的，是不是地方政府來提出一個需求，也提出一個配合的計畫，請經濟部、台電再來就個案我們來做處理？我希望是區域性的，而不是一家、一家的。"],["徐委員富癸：對，院長，因為我們都有所謂的養殖生產區，我們可以用這樣的方式跟當地的生產區來溝通，我們一窟、一窟來做改善、處理，最起碼有個中繼的電力系統。"],["卓院長榮泰：是要地下化還是要加強它的發電的設備，我想這個技術問題我們就請經濟部來協調。"],["徐委員富癸：要拜託院長，海水供應站也要趕快完成……"],["卓院長榮泰：好、好、好。"],["徐委員富癸：這樣那個管線就不用再拉了。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["徐委員富癸：就直接從海水供應站可以直接處理。"],["卓院長榮泰：好、好。"],["徐委員富癸：因為我知道，部長，每次講到預算都很頭痛，但這是一定要面對的事情，因為屏東縣是我們全國第二大養殖專區的縣市，我們的產量非常、非常地大，非常需要農業部大力來支持。"],["陳部長駿季：是，我們在屏東已經有大概3處的海水集中供應站，我們是透過疫後特別預算去支持的，所以這個部分會儘快地把它興建完成。"],["徐委員富癸：好，另外還有一個颱風造成的問題，從上一次凱米颱風到這次山陀兒颱風造成的就是所謂漂流木的問題，我們的鹽埔漁港也好、東港漁港也好，整個都是漂流木，交通船、漁船都沒辦法行駛，我聽到的部分是我們幾個單位都在踢皮球，都沒辦法協調，請教院長，這部分怎麼來整合？"],["陳部長駿季：我可不可以先說明一下，特別是上次颱風來以後，從上游開始就有一些漂流木一直漂往漁港、河口，很重要的是漂流木在各部會都是認為屬地主義，它漂到哪邊就屬於誰管。但是農業部一直主動跟縣市政府合作，現在縣市政府有開口合約，農業部林保署和漁業署也有開口合約，以現在的情況來講，在漁港的部分，我們已經用開口合約請人家進駐，只要有漂下來的時候就會把它打撈。另外，林保署會在靠近漁港部分的一些河流做一些攔截索，所以這個部分我們會跟地方政府一起來努力。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，我現在知道的狀況是，像鹽埔漁港是由恆春農會每天派車子來載，路途這麼遠，很奇怪！為什麼漁業署不能在地有開口合約馬上來做處理？"],["陳部長駿季：我們是用開口合約，而且我們是已經進駐在漁港裡面，只要有漂出來，在特別是在東港、鹽埔的部分，其他漁港的部分，我們也會比照，就是希望用開口合約的部分讓廠商直接去打撈上來，而不是讓農會或其他的來處理。"],["徐委員富癸：這個也要請院長幫忙，因為只要一發生風災，漂流木光是討論誰要處理，可能就是影響很大的問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛部長答復過，我們用開口合約進駐各港區，在方式方面要用打撈的方式儘速把它撈起來，避免造成傷害。"],["徐委員富癸：開口合約廠商也要積極，有合約，沒有行動也沒有用。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["徐委員富癸：另外，針對上次凱米颱風侵襲之後，屏東縣政府提出的災損重建金額高達8.2億，這次山陀兒颱風也一樣重創了屏東，所以屏東的許多建設需要中央全力來支持，尤其我們許多的農民、漁民一年的辛勞有可能瞬間化為烏有，尤其我們的基礎建設包含治水預算也好、重建建設也好，還有一些基礎建設的經費，都需要中央大力的支持。院長，剛剛民進黨團也表達我們的立場，我們不希望政爭，我們也不希望因為所謂的政治對抗，影響到我們的民生，前兩天我跟周縣長在枋寮勘災的時候，有一位國民黨委員也到現場，結果當場被我們的鄉親在那邊「𧮙姦搦撟」，他說你為什麼阻擋我們的預算，不要影響到我們的治水，甚至明年的災損。以本席的統計，明年我們光編列治水就有159億，加上災防、第二預備金，總共加起來有三百多億，院長，如果藍白執意要阻擋，我們後續該怎麼處理？"],["卓院長榮泰：預算的部分我們當然會極力爭取，剛剛委員的大力疾呼，我想國人都聽見了，大家心裡都有同樣的感受。"],["徐委員富癸：中央和地方的資源調配應該是我們災後重建的核心機制，現在因為我們的總預算被擱置，不只是屏東，很多縣市的重建計畫也沒辦法啟動，這不僅對屏東鄉親不公平，也是對臺灣整體防災的忽視，我們需要的是效率和行動，而不是無止盡的政治僵局和政治對抗籌碼的談判，請院長大力支持屏東的建設，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的指教，我們再加油，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員，也謝謝卓院長。","報告院會，上午質詢到此為止，下午2時30分繼續開會，進行施政報告之質詢，現在休息。","休息（11時59分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":25,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-04"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1137701_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}