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天早上到剛剛為止還在大樹還在修補最後零星的幾戶"},{"start":54.389,"end":71.705,"text":"次長您看一下這個是這一次臺電跨區搶修的工作大寮臨源算是這一次停電受創最嚴重的地區那當然總統這個昨天到了金山萬里去勘栽那媒體的報導說總統說電器購買跟貸款最高補助50萬元"},{"start":78.351,"end":97.731,"text":"所以很多人就想說為什麼金山萬里可以補助電器那我們高雄這一次風災受損也嚴重為什麼沒有這個相對剝奪感是很重的那到底這個補助是怎麼來的因為現在還有一些消息說連家具都可以補助"},{"start":99.685,"end":119.636,"text":"連鐵卷門都可以補助連鋁門窗都可以補助真的是這樣嗎可是我上了你們經濟部的網站去看這個補助內容跟過去的災後的補助是一樣的嘛而且那個補助是最高是50萬所以你每一個品項都有它的補助最高上限"},{"start":120.436,"end":140.451,"text":"其實你們是不是希望趁這個時候把一些老舊的電器汰換換成節能的可是這樣的簡短的談話其實就會造成很大很大的誤解啊次長我請教你我剛剛舉的那些例子有哪些地方是不對的你可不可以利用這個時間完整或者是簡單清楚的說明"},{"start":141.199,"end":163.738,"text":"好 謝謝委員那這個這次的補助分兩個部分一個部分就是貸款的補助那貸款的補助大概就是我們會比照楷米台風那就是針對小微企業、中小企業以及有稅期登記的這個企業最高補助50萬然後補貼這個利息全額半年"},{"start":164.658,"end":190.232,"text":"所以這個是第一項利息補貼的部分那第二項就是剛剛委員垂詢的就是一些家電的補助這應該是精準講應該是節能的補助節能設備的補助那其實我們知道高雄很多的商圈也受到影響我們其實都有把它納進來好 次長如果是這樣我覺得我希望經濟部能夠再發一些更精準的"},{"start":191.172,"end":209.229,"text":"文字或者是圖卡包括給各縣市政府包括高雄市政府都必須要有這樣的精準的訊息提供另外你們剛剛講到的這些補助都是補助給商圈但是有很多的受災戶其實是一般的民眾"},{"start":210.45,"end":237.52,"text":"比如說像在大寮我們到昨天下午一直還在協調大寮還有很多人是停電而且是停電大概超過48小時以上如果對於這些家戶因為停電所造成的不便或損失是不是經濟部也能夠演繹給他們有一些減免不管是電費或者是其他的這一些稅制上的減免這個是不是能夠請經濟部下去演繹"},{"start":238.393,"end":247.25,"text":"好 我們再來研究一下好 這個我在這邊也是具體建議啦那請次長您把這個帶回去讓經濟部去做研議好嗎好 那我接下來請國發會請國發會的主委"},{"start":252.254,"end":280.344,"text":"來 主委 這個剛剛您談到很多未來的這個發展的這些契機國發會在8月份的景氣燈號再亮紅燈你們說的分數大概39分是逼近了新高但是我覺得台灣現在大家都一直在關注AI產業包括主委你們談的內容很多都是跟AI相關的但是台灣應該不只AI我們要關注的地方也不只AI"},{"start":281.664,"end":303.8,"text":"來主委這個看一下公總他們發表了2024的白皮書他們認為產業失衡加劇現在有比過去他們一直在講缺水缺電更嚴重的問題就是缺工缺人才我們剛剛講到台電的維修其實台電也嚴重短缺維修的人力"},{"start":305.201,"end":329.918,"text":"這個都是不爭的事實當然國發會一直在談到這個外補人力主委您看一下這個是也是勞動部發表的今年10月底還比7月底的人力需求竟增加5.6萬人10月就比7月還要增加5.6萬人請問這些人力從哪裡來"},{"start":334.468,"end":354.562,"text":"主委你們有沒有跟勞動部討論過或者是說國發會有沒有一套策略勞動部我們在我們的定期的這個會議裡面勞動部會負責在主要是勞工的部分那是因為是以他為主政單位我們只有在那個會議裡面做檢疫的溝通並沒有談那麼細"},{"start":356.484,"end":376.18,"text":"這個我覺得是這樣啦齁國發會其實很多東西齁是主導國家發展所以比如說剛剛陳寧菲委員問到你們問到您的那個問題誰要來主責當然是國發會要主責啊結果你說叫提案的單位來主責我現在就問你嘛人力短缺的問題整個人力配置的規劃"},{"start":377.601,"end":392.165,"text":"當然也是國發會要來主責啊勞動部是依照這個現實的發展各產業的需求去釋放但是整體人力的配置規劃這當然是國發會要來主責是的整體是由我們在規劃沒有錯這個講到中階人力"},{"start":395.666,"end":409.845,"text":"的短缺,你現在除了我剛剛講啦,比如說這抽單慷慨,台電維修人力的短缺,照護輔佐員的短缺,防務員的短缺,物流運輸業的短缺營造業的短缺,等等"},{"start":411.269,"end":425.298,"text":"這一些人要從哪裡來?人要從哪裡補?你們現在提到的有一些部分說比如說靠大專院校梅和喬外申從事中間的工作或者是這些移工讓他久用服務"},{"start":426.84,"end":444.855,"text":"但是主委我還是看不出你現階段我們能夠多久之內補足這些人力這個當然是這個所謂的外國專業人才的纜財僱用辦法我們推了這麼多年現在也不過才五萬多人那"},{"start":448.443,"end":457.156,"text":"這個國發會說2028年要增加到12萬人是2028年增加12萬人呢還是從以前到2028年累計要有12萬人"},{"start":459.777,"end":485.175,"text":"就是從現在開始2024年到2028年要有12萬人要有12萬嘛,好,4年之內要有12萬那4年之內如何有12萬你這個是全球精英喔,就是這個專業人才喔但是我跟您談到如果再加上剛剛的這些中階技術人力短缺的部分加起來所需要的人力比其實是相對多的"},{"start":486.778,"end":498.159,"text":"國發會應該要擔起責任去做所謂的人力短缺、缺工缺財的這一些整體勞動力的配置主委您同意我的建議嗎"},{"start":501.717,"end":515.064,"text":"呃整體配置你不能讓你不能讓勞動部一個人去決定他營造業要放多少人服務業要放多少人教育要放多少人所以我覺得你們應該把"},{"start":516.865,"end":539.801,"text":"這個整合起來針對臺灣整體的缺工、缺財的問題做一個整體性的盤點主席已經站起來了啦這個是我們已經有負起責任在做整體的盤點也包括勞動人口的需求所以整體盤點包括整個政策上面應該如何放寬跟落實好不好這個有機會我們再詳談這個我們可以來往這方向來"},{"start":546.774,"end":546.937,"text":"消息。"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:56:05 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10:05:11","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":178,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時56分）謝謝主席，我先請一下經濟部次長。"],["主席：請何次長。"],["何次長晉滄：委員好。"],["邱委員議瑩：次長，颱風剛過，我還是要先請教您一下，山陀兒颱風造成高雄大概超過十五萬戶停電，我想你們經濟部也應該有全程掌控。首先我還是要表達對台電的所有工作同仁這三天以來不眠不休，到今天早上、到剛剛為止還在大樹修補最後零星幾戶。次長您看一下，這個是這次台電跨區搶修的工作，大寮、林園算是這次停電受創最嚴重的地區，當然總統昨天到了金山、萬里去勘災，媒體的報導說，總統說電器購買跟貸款最高補助50萬元，所以很多人就想說，為什麼金山、萬里可以補助電器，那我們高雄這次風災受損也嚴重，為什麼沒有？這個相對剝奪感是很重的，到底這個補助是怎麼來的？因為現在還有一些消息說，連家具都可以補助、連鐵捲門都可以補助、連鋁門窗都可以補助，真的是這樣嗎？可是我上了你們經濟部的網站去看，這個補助內容跟過去的災後補助是一樣的嘛，而且那個補助最高是50萬，所以你每一個品項都有它的補助最高上限，你們是不是希望趁這個時候把一些老舊的電器汰換成節能的？可是這樣簡短的談話其實就會造成很大很大的誤解。次長，我請教你，我剛剛舉的那些例子有哪些地方是不對的？您可不可以利用這個時間完整或者是簡單清楚的說明？"],["何次長晉滄：好，謝謝委員。這次的補助分兩個部分，一個部分就是貸款的補助，貸款的補助我們會比照凱米颱風，就是針對小微企業、中小企業以及有稅籍登記的企業，最高補助50萬，然後補貼利息全額半年，這個是第一項利息補貼的部分；第二項是剛剛委員垂詢的，就是一些家電的補助，精準講這應該是節能的補助、節能設備的補助，我們知道高雄很多商圈也受到影響，我們其實都有把它納進來。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，次長，如果是這樣，我希望經濟部能夠再發一些更精準的文字或者是圖卡，包括給各縣市政府、包括高雄市政府，都必須要有這樣精準的訊息提供。"],["何次長晉滄：好。"],["邱委員議瑩：另外，你們剛剛講到了這些補助都是補助給商圈，但是有很多受災戶其實是一般的民眾，比如說在大寮，我們到昨天下午一直還在協調，大寮還有很多人是停電，而且是停電大概超過四十八小時以上，如果對於這些家戶因為停電所造成的不便或損失，是不是經濟部也能夠研議給他們有一些減免？不管是電費或者是其他稅制上的減免，這個是不是能夠請經濟部下去研議？"],["何次長晉滄：好，我們再來研究一下。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，這個我在這邊也是具體建議，請次長您把這個帶回去讓經濟部去研議好嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：是，謝謝委員。"],["邱委員議瑩：我接下來請國發會。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委，剛剛您談到很多未來的發展契機，國發會在8月份的景氣燈號再亮紅燈，你們說分數大概39分是逼近了新高，但是我覺得臺灣現在大家都一直在關注AI產業，包括主委你們談的內容很多都是跟AI相關，但是臺灣應該不只AI，我們要關注的地方也不只AI。","來，主委，這個看一下，工總他們發表了2024的白皮書，他們認為產業失衡加劇，現在有比過去他們一直在講的缺水、缺電更嚴重的問題，就是缺工、缺人才！我們剛剛講到台電的維修，其實台電也嚴重短缺維修的人力，這個都是不爭的事實。當然，國發會一直談到外補人力，主委，您看一下，這個也是勞動部發表的，今年10月底還比7月底的人力需求淨增加5.6萬人，10月就比7月還要增加5.6萬人。請問這些人力從哪裡來？主委，你們有沒有跟勞動部討論過，或者是國發會有沒有一套策略？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：關於勞動部，在我們的定期會議裡面，勞動部主要負責的是勞工的部分，因為是以它為主政單位，我們只有在那個會議裡面做簡易的溝通，並沒有談那麼細。"],["邱委員議瑩：我覺得是這樣，國發會其實很多東西是主導國家發展，比如說剛剛陳亭妃委員問到您的那個問題，誰要來主責？當然是國發會要主責啊！結果你說叫提案的單位來主責，我現在就問你人力短缺的問題，整個人力配置的規劃當然也是國發會要來主責啊！勞動部是依照現實的發展、各產業的需求去釋放，但是整體人力的配置、規劃，當然是國發會要來主責嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的，整體是由我們在規劃，沒有錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：講到中階人力的短缺，現在除了我剛剛講的，比如說粗重的工作、台電維修人力的短缺、照護輔佐員的短缺、防護員的短缺、物流運輸業的短缺、營造業的短缺等等，這些人要從哪裡來？人要從哪裡補？你們現在提到的有一些部分，比如說靠大專院校媒合僑外生從事中階的工作，或者是這些移工讓他久用服務，但是，主委，我還是看不出現階段我們能夠在多久之內補足這些人力，這個當然是所謂的外國專業人才攬才僱用辦法，我們推了這麼多年，現在也不過才五萬多人，國發會說2028年要增加到12萬人，是2028年增加12萬人呢？還是從以前到2028年累計要有12萬人？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：就是從現在開始，2024年到2028年要有12萬人。"],["邱委員議瑩：要有12萬嘛，4年之內要有12萬。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：那4年之內如何有12萬？你這個是全球菁英，就是專業人才喔！但是我跟您談到，如果再加上剛剛這些中階技術人力短缺的部分，加起來所需要的人力比其實是相對多的。國發會應該要擔起責任，去做所謂的人力短缺、缺工、缺才整體勞動力的配置，主委，您同意我的建議嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：整體配置必須是……"],["邱委員議瑩：你不能讓勞動部一個人去決定營造業要放多少人、服務業要放多少人、教育要放多少人，所以我覺得你們應該把這個整合起來，針對臺灣整體的缺工、缺才問題做一個整體性的盤點。主席已經站起來了啦！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我們已經有負起責任在做整體的盤點。"],["主席：謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：也包括勞動人口的需求。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以整體盤點包括整個政策上面應該如何放寬跟落實，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好。"],["邱委員議瑩：這個有機會我們再詳談。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，這個我們可以往這個方向來努力。"],["主席：好，非常感謝邱議瑩委員，請主委回座。","邱議瑩委員質詢是本會的楷模，賴瑞隆比照辦理！下一位質詢請賴瑞隆，發言時間8分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","speakers":["邱志偉","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","陳超明","謝衣鳯","吳春城","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","黃國昌","黃建賓","廖偉翔","羅智強","牛煦庭"],"page_start":237,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家發展委員會主任\n委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、\n人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}