{"error":false,"id":["155100"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":155100,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155100","日期":"2024-10-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-23-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-10-07T09:44:52+08:00","結束時間":"2024-10-07T09:55:27+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"委員名稱":"林國成","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fbd4f581a444b4939904dedac4f4a854bb8e3b5ddc0e7677772a8a89b87e03824afa53514610baff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.7897187500000005,"end":5.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.40971875,"end":8.282843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.56534375,"end":10.341593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.45534375,"end":12.653468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.51409375,"end":14.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.134093750000002,"end":16.450343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.85534375,"end":17.496593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.96909375,"end":30.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.50284375,"end":33.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.494093750000005,"end":42.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.56846875,"end":46.673468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.736593750000004,"end":48.900968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.54221875,"end":62.822843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.71721875,"end":64.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.37096875,"end":68.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.31534375000001,"end":71.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.20971875000001,"end":72.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.57659375,"end":74.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.88846875,"end":76.01909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.06971875,"end":76.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.39721875000001,"end":86.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.07221875,"end":88.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.21534375,"end":91.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.64534375000001,"end":92.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.07971875000001,"end":94.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.20596875000001,"end":96.67409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.45034375,"end":98.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.76659375000001,"end":102.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.00221875000001,"end":107.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.57534375,"end":115.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.72596875,"end":135.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.19971875000002,"end":136.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.92096875000001,"end":140.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.15659375,"end":141.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.40534375000001,"end":144.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.27409375000002,"end":145.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.57346875000002,"end":147.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.83909375000002,"end":148.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.61096875,"end":154.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.23034375,"end":155.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.98534375,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.32659375,"end":161.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.92971875,"end":162.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.14034375,"end":166.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.87409375000001,"end":167.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.34221875,"end":170.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.35034375,"end":178.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.88909375,"end":179.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.07034375,"end":180.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.89721875,"end":181.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.07846875,"end":182.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.66471875000002,"end":184.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.63909375,"end":186.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.04409375,"end":186.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.21284375000002,"end":187.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.02284375000002,"end":189.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.85784375,"end":219.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.72721875000002,"end":216.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.97596875000002,"end":217.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.55784375000002,"end":245.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.30471875,"end":246.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.32159375,"end":250.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.84409375,"end":309.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.41284375000004,"end":314.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.74971875,"end":328.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.07659375000003,"end":331.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.58221875000004,"end":350.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.05346875000004,"end":342.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.01846875,"end":350.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.96346875,"end":351.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.01409375000003,"end":352.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.20784375,"end":354.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.62096875000003,"end":357.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.10159375,"end":360.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.16034375000004,"end":368.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.98596875000004,"end":373.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.64346875,"end":378.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.90846875,"end":385.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.80159375000005,"end":388.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.89846875,"end":390.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.00784375,"end":392.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.23534375,"end":394.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.83846875,"end":397.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.33596875,"end":402.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.00596875,"end":404.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.99721875,"end":424.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.36534375,"end":438.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.08034375000005,"end":441.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.18971875000005,"end":443.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.01221875000005,"end":449.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.67784375,"end":453.96846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.51284375,"end":453.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.96846875000006,"end":455.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.09471875,"end":457.76534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.20409375,"end":459.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.79034375000003,"end":459.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.35971875,"end":471.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.61596875000004,"end":469.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.97409375,"end":473.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.80909375000005,"end":475.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.65284375000005,"end":477.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.65659375,"end":478.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.06159375000004,"end":480.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.34409375,"end":482.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.00221875000005,"end":481.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.40284375000005,"end":486.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.10659375000006,"end":493.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":491.34659375,"end":492.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.96221875000003,"end":495.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.68346875000003,"end":495.70034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.35846875000004,"end":497.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.45971875000004,"end":496.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.86034375,"end":503.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.86409375000005,"end":501.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.72034375000004,"end":503.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.27284375000005,"end":513.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.3684687499999,"end":514.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.9209687499999,"end":515.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.8997187499999,"end":516.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.21596875,"end":517.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.1440937500001,"end":519.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.0678437500001,"end":524.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.82659375,"end":525.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.05846875,"end":528.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.2309687500001,"end":529.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.2265937500001,"end":531.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.57659375,"end":533.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.4622187500001,"end":555.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.6572187500001,"end":556.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.56409375,"end":558.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.8803437500001,"end":560.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.07409375,"end":566.3897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.87909375,"end":586.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.21346875,"end":595.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.8703437500001,"end":596.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.56221875,"end":598.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.9753437500001,"end":600.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.5278437500001,"end":601.4897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.99596875,"end":608.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.62346875,"end":614.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.39471875,"end":631.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.64221875,"end":626.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.10096875,"end":632.7422187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.44,"end":14.233,"text":"我特別要強調一下我跟翁代理副主委無厭無仇"},{"start":15.262,"end":42.563,"text":"施交也不錯但是公事公辦、行政院院會韓院長做出裁定的時候行政院到現在為止針對代理合法與否都未曾交代所以雖然看起來應邀到本院來但是最起碼這是一個對法治一個尊重"},{"start":43.635,"end":68.123,"text":"所以特別在這裡要重申違法代理應不應該下台行政院要盡快的去做適當的一個處置讓他明確化所以這裡特別要重申那另外一個我在想主席我要請黃部長"},{"start":70.582,"end":74.965,"text":"還有打詐的黃主任秘書來黃執銘好兩位首長其實為什麼不讓NCC上來第一個連媒體都管不好打詐怎麼會做得好"},{"start":97.726,"end":113.933,"text":"連媒體公正公平都督導的做不到那今天報告了這麼多當然我們還是期待因為我們立法院也適度修了一些法規讓你們在偵辦的時候"},{"start":116.154,"end":141.546,"text":"包括調查局包括刑事警察局在本黨團黃總召去訪問的時候我們就認為這個華是缺華所以有很多華我們都提供我們的意見也提供讓我們在執行法律的時候當然要事半功倍也就是你們有羅波"},{"start":142.446,"end":158.116,"text":"也有棍子這樣才有辦法去防止這些那另外一個我簡單的問一下黃部長跟我們黃執行秘書昨天我們民營機構的聯電偽創台塑化都被駭客入侵請問"},{"start":168.456,"end":184.304,"text":"我們國內的資安到底誰在把關連民營的這些生產公司都會被駭客入侵請問黃部長請問黃執行秘書針對這個事情你簡單回答一下"},{"start":190.212,"end":211.61,"text":"林委員好 那個我們有持續在關注而且我們警戒也升級因為這個國外的攻擊一直存在那這次攻擊的太陽叫做DDOS那主要是阻斷式攻擊那我們有一些聯防的機制跟公司協力的機制所以目前我們看到的是有攻擊但是都沒有造成真正所謂的入境或是資料外洩"},{"start":212.671,"end":213.011,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":232.858,"end":233.759,"text":"其實駭客的問題不是今天才發生啦"},{"start":250.948,"end":255.672,"text":"其實我們前一段時間我們公家機關也被駭客入侵啊這個也是一個問題這個也跟打詐是有關欸不要這裡只有黃片但是駭客倉皇這樣也不好吧這不是一系列執行秘書就變成行政院有一個打詐黃片的一個指揮中心結果呢"},{"start":278.268,"end":303.415,"text":"明有設置但是事實上會更糟糕這個不好所以我特別啊特別要提醒黃部長特別要聽我們黃子密在這個部分你我跟你講啊真正會做壞事的都是日新夜異的技術有時候你們都抓不到啦所以我特別要請黃部長我說實在的接下來"},{"start":304.715,"end":316.023,"text":"我就要特別提醒我們的施策會有很多東西是很重要的所以我現在就是要來請教我們施策會這幾天剛換的這些人事的問題我請問一下施策會這個董事長執行長有沒有任期制部長"},{"start":333.649,"end":353.714,"text":"施策會原則上我們尊重董事會的那個因為這是董事會的機制嘛那執行長的任命是由董事長任命的所以我們有沒有權督導我們是屬於我們素產署的督導但是我跟你講我跟你投訴一下不能因為"},{"start":355.68,"end":372.834,"text":"我說實在就是濫油油那什麼事情通通可以做你知道現在董事長跟執行長任期未到阿你們就是拿了一個這個濫油油的牌子他就可以去馬上"},{"start":373.715,"end":401.018,"text":"你知道現在換的黃仲明董事長你知道他是做什麼起家嗎他有辦法去設計這些我們需要的這些網路嗎當然你這個人不是你派但是我要拜託你嚴格監督不能因為他是賴游游那大家你是資料去提供一下阿最近賴游游不是很慘嗎"},{"start":403.089,"end":420.837,"text":"所以這個部分因為他所有的委辦都是我們政府機關給這個單位所以我希望大家不能把這些知通的東西當兒校這是一個專業的單位知錯會是一個專業的單位耶"},{"start":425.579,"end":438.451,"text":"黃部長我知道你無權去干涉可是你要去盡到監督之責任啊不能因為他是賴油油啊什麼都不管加入信賴就吃香喝辣還有一點我要請教我們這個部長打破慣例他上任就要知心請問這合不合理嗎"},{"start":450.697,"end":477.435,"text":"一切按照這個組織法事實上是並沒有說好來你來說你想說你說合不合理合不合法嘛這個財團法人他有資心比如說他過去都是教授間的因為他在學校本來就有資心說他多領社馬會那這個那本來就可以資心對那他這個資心多高你知道嗎知不知道你你你是不是董事會成員"},{"start":479.14,"end":486.106,"text":"我是董事會成員那怎麼通過的你大聲告訴人家過去是怎麼樣現在是怎麼樣過去因為都是學校教授兼任現在是專任拜託他有專才嗎"},{"start":497.935,"end":515.184,"text":"他以前是做什麼?遊戲公司的董事長啦!只有這些跟我們這個業務有什麼關係?所以喔!別說又比較難得啦!你是一個董事還是要有董事的尊嚴但是我要拜託我們黃部長"},{"start":517.485,"end":533.514,"text":"當然你無法去抗計但是你總是有一個政務官的擔當不對就不對不可以就不可以該就正就要就正所以這點我還要請我們黃部長要有所作為"},{"start":534.614,"end":556.196,"text":"我會督導我們會督導要督導因為他所有不要忘了喔他現在在領專業加薪去年度還虧損了2億喔這些花名單位他編類預算他說來自我們政府機關的委託案所以在這個部分黃部長我也知道"},{"start":557.625,"end":586.133,"text":"包括我在內無法抵抗賴友友但是最起碼我們政府官要有尊嚴啊我們立法委員要有尊嚴啊不是嗎所以我希望黃部長你是一個老實人想要做事情但是也要有擔當啊不能因為為首亦為支撤會變成賴友友之友會那這樣就不好因為那個支撤會是多麼重要的單位欸"},{"start":587.293,"end":608.256,"text":"好不好 因為打詐還是需要他提供很多的專業的知識嘛 所以這個部分我要拜託黃部長 你的骨頭要硬一點啦該有所為 有所不為 人情世故我贊成 但是不要連人情世故都沒有 自己本身"},{"start":609.656,"end":614.441,"text":"鼓頭不夠硬,這樣的話就不是一個有為的政務官,好不好?"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:44:52 - 09:55:27","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":252,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時44分）謝謝主席。我特別要強調一下，我跟翁代理主委、副主委無冤無仇，私交也不錯，但是公事公辦。立法院院會韓院長作出裁定的時候，行政院到現在為止，針對代理合法與否都未曾交代，所以雖然看起來應邀到本院來，但是最起碼這是對法制的一個尊重，所以特別在這裡要重申，違法代理應不應該下臺？行政院要儘快去做適當的處置，讓它明確化，所以在這裡要特別重申。另外，主席，我要請黃部長。"],["主席：數位部黃部長。"],["林委員國成：還有打詐的黃執行秘書。"],["主席：黃執秘。"],["林委員國成：兩位首長，為什麼不讓NCC上來？第一個，連媒體都管不好，打詐怎麼會做得好？連媒體公正、公平的督導都做不到，今天報告了這麼多，當然我們還是期待，因為我們立法院也適度修了一些法規，讓你們在偵辦的時候，包括調查局、包括刑事警察局，在本黨團黃總召去訪問的時候，我們就認為這個法是缺乏的，所以有很多法，我們都有提供我們的意見，讓我們在執行法律的時候能夠事半功倍，也就是你們有蘿蔔也有棍子，這樣才有辦法去防止這些。","另外，我簡單問一下黃部長跟我們黃執行秘書，昨天我們民營機構的聯電、緯創、台塑化都被駭客入侵，請問我們國內的資安到底誰在把關？連民營的這些生產公司都會被駭客入侵，請問黃部長、請問黃執行秘書，針對這個事情，請簡單回答一下。"],["黃部長彥男：林委員好。我們有持續在關注，而且我們的警戒也升級，因為國外的攻擊一直存在，這次攻擊的態樣叫做DDoS，主要是阻斷式攻擊，我們有一些聯防的機制跟公私協力的機制，所以目前我們看到的是有攻擊，但是都沒有造成真正所謂的入侵或是資料外洩，所以我想這個也是民間業者一起努力……"],["林委員國成：對，部長，你們發現這個問題怎麼處理？"],["黃部長彥男：這部分剛剛講了就是說，因為攻擊來自全世界各方，它要攻擊，我們在網路上沒辦法完全的阻斷，但是就是剛剛講的情資分享，就是說我們看到攻擊的態樣，我們會通知有加入我們的所謂CERT的一些機構，跟它講我們看到什麼樣的攻擊，開始注意，所以當攻擊來的時候，我們會有所謂的洗流量、各式各樣的技術，把這些攻擊……"],["林委員國成：黃部長，其實駭客的問題不是今天才發生啦，前一段時間我們公家機關也被駭客入侵，這個也是一個問題，這個也跟打詐有關，不要這裡只有防騙，但是駭客猖獗，這樣也不好吧！執行秘書，行政院有一個打詐防騙的指揮中心，結果呢？明有設置，但是事實上會更糟糕，這個不好，所以我特別要提醒黃部長、特別要提醒我們黃執秘，在這個部分，我跟你講，真正會做壞事的都是日新月異的技術，有時候你們都抓不到啦，所以我特別要請黃部長，說實在的，接下來我就要特別提醒，我們的資策會有很多東西是很重要的，所以我現在就是要來請教我們資策會這幾天剛換的這些人事的問題，請問一下部長，資策會董事長、執行長有沒有任期制？"],["黃部長彥男：資策會，原則上我們尊重董事會，因為這是董事會的機制，執行長的任命是由董事長任命的，所以……"],["林委員國成：對，我們有沒有權督導？"],["黃部長彥男：是屬於我們數產署督導的。"],["林委員國成：但是我跟你講，我跟你投訴一下，我說實在的，就是賴友友什麼事情統統可以做，你知道現在董事長和執行長任期未到，你們拿了一個賴友友的牌子就馬上可以去，你知道現在換的黃仲銘董事長是做什麼起家的嗎？他有辦法設計這些我們需要的網路嗎？當然這個人不是你派的，但是我拜託你要嚴格監督，不能因為他是賴友友。我們可以提供資料，最近賴友友不是很慘嗎？因為這個單位所有的委辦都是政府機關給的，所以我希望大家不能把這些資通的東西當兒戲，這是一個專業的單位，資策會是一個專業的單位。黃部長，我知道你無權干涉，可是你要盡到監督之責任，不能因為他是賴友友就什麼都不管，加入信賴就吃香喝辣。還有一點，我要請教部長，打破慣例，他上任就要支薪，請問這合不合理？"],["黃部長彥男：一切按照組織法，事實上並沒有……"],["林委員國成：你來說，你想說你說，合不合理、合不合法？"],["林副署長俊秀：這個財團法人有支薪，比如它過去都是教授兼任，因為學校本來就有支薪，所以他都領車馬費。"],["林委員國成：本來就可以支薪？"],["林副署長俊秀：對。"],["林委員國成：他的支薪多高，你知道嗎？知不知道？你是不是董事會成員？"],["林副署長俊秀：我是董事會成員，我剛上任。"],["林委員國成：那怎麼通過的？你大聲告訴人家過去是怎麼樣，現在是怎麼樣。"],["林副署長俊秀：過去因為都是學校教授兼任，所以他都是2萬……"],["林委員國成：現在是專任？"],["林副署長俊秀：現在是專任。"],["林委員國成：拜託！他有專才嗎？他以前是做什麼的？"],["林副署長俊秀：是智崴，就是體感科技的……"],["林委員國成：是遊戲公司的董事長，只有這些，這跟我們這個業務有什麼關係，所以別說還比較不會……你是一個董事還是要有董事的尊嚴。不過我要拜託黃部長，雖然你無法抗拒，但是你總是要有政務官的擔當，不對就不對，不可以就不可以，該糾正就要糾正，所以我還是要請黃部長要有所作為。"],["黃部長彥男：我們會督導。"],["林委員國成：因為不要忘了，他現在在領專業加薪，去年度還虧損了2億，這些發明單位編列預算都來自政府機關的委託案，所以在這個部分，黃部長，我也知道包括我在內都無法抵抗賴友友，但是最起碼我們政務官要有尊嚴，我們立法委員要有尊嚴，不是嗎？黃部長是一個老實人，想要做事情，但是也是要有擔當，不能因為為所欲為，資策會變成賴友友之友會，這樣就不好了，因為資策會是多麼重要的單位，好不好？打詐還是需要它提供很多的專業知識，所以在這個部分我要拜託黃部長，你的骨頭要硬一點，該有所為有所不為，人情世故我贊成，但是不要連人情世故都沒有，自己本身骨頭不夠硬，這樣的話就不是一個有為的政務官，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的指教，基本上，我會先從制度面，也就是剛剛講的法規面來處理。"],["林委員國成：對啦！不行就不行，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：我們一切依照法規，組織法怎麼訂，我們就根據組織法來處理。"],["林委員國成：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。接下來有請許智傑委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":88,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-4","speakers":["魯明哲","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","邱若華","廖先翔","陳雪生","徐富癸","洪孟楷","李坤城","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","郭國文","林月琴","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、\n內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}