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注意這樣人民會不會太苦了人民要被剝好幾層皮嗎電價漲了漲完之後臺鐵先漲現在可能其他國營事業跟著要漲"},{"start":82.144,"end":103.791,"text":"這人民怎麼辦?就我了解我們分兩個事情來看我們自己在評估因為他這次是有範圍的成長對CPI的影響我們評估下來整個一年期的期間大概是0.2那台鐵的部分台鐵我踩個煞車好不好你這個話已經講好幾次了今天是最新的進度我現在問你"},{"start":105.291,"end":131.611,"text":"台鐵因為增加了2.28億的經費預算他現在準備要送到他的22號送到他董事會他把他的台鐵的票價要漲那這樣人民不就這第一個衝擊到物價對不對人民去搭台鐵不就是要多付錢了嗎?就我了解台鐵的漲價他是因為29年沒有漲那這是其中一個因素而已那他因為29年沒有漲所以所以看新聞一下看新聞一下"},{"start":133.305,"end":161.023,"text":"二十九年當然是一個因素啊那他現在提出去了是把這個新的帳價又把它放進去那你們做個贏囉所以你們去爭取這個不要轉嫁到人民身上可不可以 如果照你講的能不能不要轉嫁到人民身上這2.28億我想經濟部在這裡喔他也許 呃 他們自己我等一下問經濟部經濟部的國運事業很多嘛等一下問台水我先講一下齁台水今年4月1號"},{"start":163.089,"end":173.398,"text":"長電價以後一年增加多少?5.62億那你現在又漲喔這是台水也是有影響的喔台水會增加3.56億那我現在今天要執行非常清楚"},{"start":175.122,"end":195.618,"text":"臺電漲了臺鐵,臺鐵不要轉嫁到人民身上來。第二個,一樣,臺水增加了3.56億,也不能漲到人民身上來。所以,我先問你啦,因為交通部嘛,交通部你不就去講,我等一下問經濟部,臺水,還有經濟部主管的國營事業,絕對不能轉嫁到人民身上去,好不好?"},{"start":196.218,"end":222.165,"text":"委員第一個我一定會去轉達給交通部第二個事情我也跟您說明一下這個還是要看台鐵的輸贏人次他如果輸贏人次是兩億的話攤下來是一個人才一塊錢所以還是要看實際的狀況那我還是會去表達從人民的角度去看這個事情人民的合估你台電漲了價你還講說沒有衝擊行政院長跟你們都講說沒有衝擊到民生沒有衝擊到物價對不對這有沒有衝擊到"},{"start":224.437,"end":239.793,"text":"我去搭台鐵我就影響到啦怎麼沒有勒這物價不會跟著漲嗎這兩個層面都是衝擊喔我掏錢我本來搭台鐵的因為你漲了電價之後有要多付錢嘛對不對所以這常識嘛對沒問題吧這常識嘛這邏輯沒問題嘛然後第二個因為國營世界漲了價之後"},{"start":245.56,"end":270.353,"text":"有沒有帶動物價?怎麼樣影響到民生呢?這個其實還是要看影響的多寡啦那我們自己在看的話在工業部門是2%左右那當然有些多耗電的會到10%那其實他的影響並沒有那麼大啦那尤其他這次有限定範圍嘛所以實際上我想我會去溝通然後看看他到底影響有多大那有必要我會我們會來做一個整合性的溝通部門"},{"start":272.434,"end":289.204,"text":"這個責任重大,人民會不會繼續太苦下去,要看你了所以你現在一方面是交通部那邊你要溝通所有國營事業,財政部其實都哪有啦那等一下經濟部這邊,次長在,我在這邊次長,海水因為這次的調漲會增加3.56億"},{"start":291.616,"end":310.823,"text":"那臺水應該不會轉嫁,因為這樣漲價吧?巴韋目前臺水沒有漲價的規劃沒有齁?是好,那我們今天能不能做一個簡單的一個結論這次臺電漲了電價,所有的國營、事業不能夠因為漲了、增加了這個電價轉嫁到人民的身上兩位都要說承諾好不好?"},{"start":313.337,"end":336.298,"text":"兩個都要承諾喔不要過幾天這個馬上見真章喔22號臺電臺鐵如果開了會長的話人民就找你們算帳了立法院找你們算帳阿第二個臺水剛剛次長講的臺水沒去嘛對不對所有經濟部的所有的國營事業若因為臺電漲了電價有增加這個我們到追究責任OK好我們先做這個簡單結論來我來看另外一個來"},{"start":339.05,"end":353.43,"text":"次長你先請回我問一下次那個諸位國發基金啊以前投資都是投資股權結果最近變成有些專案投資啊連影片都投資了我們看一下下一張在111年的時候啊"},{"start":354.96,"end":374.756,"text":"那時候投資啊專案投資啊電影或者是影片只有兩部投資了3500萬結果到112年的時候一下子跳到多少34部發了國發基金4億7495萬文化是一個國家的根本你要投資文化我沒有意見文化讓一個國家偉大"},{"start":376.854,"end":396.802,"text":"可是不能夠偏頗國發基金這個投資應該是以這個公司為主對不對盡量少是影片我們看下一張最近有一個引起很大爭議的這是不是又是超市的翻版以小博大之前前8年我們在抗議什麼總資額200萬的小吃店可以取得16.5億的快篩50萬的超市獲得農業部10億的大訂單今天又有一個很離譜的有一家公司啊"},{"start":406.015,"end":411.739,"text":"他的持收的資本額不到86萬結果從我們國家搬了1.13億的投資包括國發基金都搬出來了主委 這個要好不好檢討一下"},{"start":420.531,"end":447.537,"text":"這個我們找文化部檢討過了一次跟您報告一下就是說他過去是因為投資效益不好的時候他投了很多在專案上面然後呢創造了比較多的投資解脫你講的是通案我在講的是這家公司一個持收資本額不到86萬的政府從文化部跟國發基金可以搬1.13億去投資嗎我給你看下一張來這個投資的什麼去拍這個叫做凌日攻擊我們比一下好不好"},{"start":448.857,"end":471.644,"text":"最近右邊這個臺灣三部曲導演過有名吧魏德勝左邊這個導演雖然也是有名可是跟魏德勝比起來羅景仁羅先生魏德勝以前有海角7號賽德克巴萊你看他這個本來金額多少總金會是45億結果國發基金要請國發基金去投資"},{"start":476.343,"end":499.564,"text":"本來還不願意的後來只投資了三千萬這個一般人的民眾會怎麼看這個事情這兩個當然是投資魏德勝這一邊阿台灣三部曲阿都是以台灣為題材阿這個是嘗試的問題吧一定是右邊嘛為什麼左邊反而更多主委你看凌日攻擊這個被稱為綠色的這個不要說一定是什麼"},{"start":501.195,"end":518.358,"text":"什麼對民進黨是都好的可是我要問喔兩個對比之下投資台灣的體裁為什麼一個0日攻擊國發基金那些投資4170萬高達16.09%這是到目前為止喔國發基金所有的投資裡面一個片子最多的"},{"start":519.216,"end":534.654,"text":"這人民不會有意見嗎?好,謝謝委員這個我會找文化部來瞭解主委,我問你一個更直接的,我問一個最後的問題主委,馬上馬上主委,我問一個最後的問題主委,這個影片講的是兩岸戰爭我問你,站在國家發展的角度我問在國家發展的角度"},{"start":535.851,"end":544.055,"text":"如果外資要來投資,去找了你,你願意、你敢找外資來看這個片子嗎?最後一句話,最後一句話,站在國家發展的角度,你說我是一個國外的資金要進來對不對?"},{"start":551.999,"end":576.762,"text":"我看了這個片子是未來投資還是不投資這個是我們委有文化部執行的文化創意這是文化創意可是對國家發展你外資就進不來阿因為講的是兩岸戰爭阿這個你國發經濟還去投資我在事後跟您報告國發經濟不是打自己嘴巴嗎好那個抱歉喔這個投資有他的那個審核啦你把這個相關資料給我好不好好相關資料請提供"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:14:09 - 10:23:45","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":267,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時14分）請主委和次長。"],["主席：請劉主委和何次長。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員早。"],["張委員啓楷：主委、次長，電價調漲以後是不是會變成萬物齊漲？今天最重要的新聞是臺鐵說因為台電漲了臺鐵的電價之後，臺鐵一年會增加2.28億的預算，所以現在漲完之後換臺鐵漲人民了，這變成一個惡性循環，台電漲臺鐵、臺鐵漲人民。我現在請教主委，這對民生會不會是很大的一個衝擊，而且現在是國營事業帶頭漲嗎？主委，這樣人民會不會太苦了，人民要被剝好幾層皮嗎？電價漲了，漲完之後臺鐵先漲，現在其他國營事業也可能要跟著漲，人民要怎麼辦？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：就我瞭解，我們分兩個事情來看，因為它這次是有範圍的成長，我們評估下來對CPI的影響一年期的期間大概是0.2，臺鐵的部分……"],["張委員啓楷：抱歉！我踩個煞車，你這個話已經講好幾次了，今天是最新的進度，我現在問你，臺鐵因為增加了2.28億的經費預算，它準備22日要送到董事會，它要漲臺鐵的票價，第一個衝擊到物價，這樣人民去搭臺鐵不就要多付錢了嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：就我瞭解，臺鐵的漲價是因為29年沒有漲，這只是其中一個因素而已，它因為29年沒有漲，所以……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，看一下新聞，29年當然是一個因素，它現在提出去的是又把新的漲價放進去，主委，你們有沒有去爭取這個不要轉嫁到人民身上，可不可以？如果照你講的，這2.28億能不能不要轉嫁到人民身上？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：經濟部在這裡，它也許……"],["張委員啓楷：這是關於交通部，我等一下會問經濟部，經濟部的國營事業很多，我等一下會問台水，我先講一下，台水今年4月1日漲電價以後，一年增加5.62億，現在又漲，這次台水也是有受影響，台水會增加3.56億。我今天的質詢非常清楚，台電漲了，臺鐵，臺鐵不要轉嫁到人民身上來。第二個，一樣，台水增加了3.56億，也不能漲到人民身上來，我先問主委，交通部你負責去講，我等一下會問經濟部台水，還有經濟部主管的國營事業，絕對不能轉嫁到人民身上去，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員，第一個，我一定會去轉達給交通部。第二個事情我也跟你說明一下，這個還是要看臺鐵的輸運人次，如果輸運人次是2億的話，攤下來是1個人才1塊錢，所以還是要看實際的狀況，我還是會去表達。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，從人民的角度去看這個事情，人民何辜？台電漲了價，你還講沒有衝擊，行政院長跟你們都講沒有衝擊到民生、沒有衝擊到物價，這有沒有衝擊到？我去搭臺鐵就被影響到了，怎麼沒有呢？物價不會跟著漲嗎？兩個層面都是衝擊，我本來掏錢搭臺鐵，因為你漲了電價之後要多付錢，主委，這是常識，沒問題吧？這是常識，這個邏輯沒問題。第二個，因為國營事業漲了價之後，有沒有帶動物價，有沒有影響到民生呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個其實還是要看影響的多寡，我們自己在看的話，在工業部門是2%左右，當然有些多耗電的會到10%，所以其實它的影響並沒有那麼大，尤其它這次有限定範圍，實際上我會去溝通，然後看看它到底影響有多大，有必要的話我們會來做一個整合性的溝通部門。"],["張委員啓楷：主委的責任重大，人民會不會繼續太苦下去要看你囉！所以現在一方面是交通部那邊你要溝通，所有的國營事業，財政部其實也有，經濟部次長在場，我直接請問次長，台水因為這次的調漲會增加3.56億，台水應該不會轉嫁或因為這樣漲價吧？"],["何次長晉滄：報告委員，目前台水沒有漲價的規劃。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有，好。我們今天能不能做一個簡單的結論，這次台電漲了電價，所有的國營事業不能夠因為漲了、增加的電價，轉嫁到人民的身上，兩位都要做出承諾，好不好？兩個都要承諾，不要過幾天……這個馬上見真章，22日臺鐵如果開了會漲價的話，人民就找你們算帳，立法院也找你們算帳！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個超過我們能承諾的範圍。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，剛剛次長說台水沒有漲，經濟部所有的國營事業若因為台電漲了電價有增加，我們都要追究責任，我們先做這個簡單結論。我們來看另外一個議題，請問主委，國發基金以前的投資都是投資股權，結果最近變成有些專案投資連影片都投資了。我們來看下一張簡報，在111年的時候，那時候專案投資電影或影片只有兩部，投資了3,500萬；結果到112年的時候，一下子跳到多少？34部，花了國發基金4億7,495萬。文化是一個國家的根本，你要投資文化，我沒有意見，文化讓一個國家偉大，可是不能夠偏頗，國發基金這個投資應該是以公司為主，儘量少是影片。","最近有一個引起很大爭議的，這是不是又是超思的翻版，以小博大？前八年我們在抗議什麼？總資額200萬的小吃店，可以取得16.5億的快篩，50萬的超思獲得農業部10億的大訂單。今天又有一個很離譜的消息，有一家公司實收資本額不到86萬，結果從我們國家搬了1.13億的投資，包括國發基金都搬出來了。主委，這個要不要檢討一下？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我們找文化部檢討過一次，跟您報告一下，過去是因為投資效益不好的時候，它投了很多在專案上面，然後創造了比較多的投資結果。"],["張委員啓楷：你講的是通案，我在講的是這家公司，一個實收資本額不到86萬的公司，政府從文化部跟國發基金可以搬1.13億去投資嗎？我給你看下一張簡報，這個投資了什麼？去拍這部叫「零日攻擊」，我們比一下好不好？最近右邊這部「臺灣三部曲」，導演魏德聖夠有名吧！左邊這位導演雖然也是有名，羅景壬羅先生，可是跟魏德聖比起來，魏德聖以前有「海角七號」、「賽德克．巴萊」，你看本來這個金額多少？總經費是45億喔！結果要請國發基金去投資，本來還不願意的，後來只投資了3,000萬，一般民眾會怎麼看這個事情？這兩個當然是投資魏德聖這邊啊！臺灣三部曲啊！都是以臺灣為題材啊！這個是常識問題，一定是右邊嘛！為什麼左邊反而更多？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，你看「零日攻擊」這個被稱為綠色的，不要說什麼一定是對民進黨多好的，可是我要問喔！兩個對比之下，投資臺灣的題材，為什麼一個「零日攻擊」國發基金投資4,170萬，高達16.09%，這是到目前為止國發基金所有的投資裡面一部片子最多的，這個人民不會有意見嗎？"],["主席：好，謝謝……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員，這個我會找文化部來瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：主委，我問你一個更直接的、問最後一個問題……"],["主席：不好意思，委員時間到了……"],["張委員啓楷：馬上好、馬上好！我問最後一個問題……"],["主席：不是，我們要考慮到公平性，因為人家在等……"],["張委員啓楷：主委，這個影片講的是兩岸戰爭，我問你站在國家發展的角度……"],["主席：好，麻煩時間到了。"],["張委員啓楷：如果有外資要來投資，去找了你，你願意、你敢找外資來看這部片子嗎？"],["主席：張委員，不好意思，時間到了，書面資料補充……"],["張委員啓楷：主席，我馬上就好了。最後一句話、最後一句話！"],["主席：不是啦！大家都在等你！"],["張委員啓楷：主委，站在國家發展的角度，例如我是一個國外的資金要進來，對不對？"],["主席：你不是說一句話嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：我看了這部片子是會來投資，還是不投資？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個是我們委由文化部執行的文化創意產業投資啊！"],["主席：好，謝謝，發言時間到，還有委員在等啊！"],["張委員啓楷：這個是文化創意，可是對國家發展而言，外資就進不來啊！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：文化是國……"],["張委員啓楷：因為講的是兩岸戰爭啊！結果國發基金還去投資？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我們有檢討過，我事後再跟你報告。"],["主席：好，謝謝，發言時間到……"],["張委員啓楷：國發會跟國發基金不是打自己嘴巴嗎？"],["主席：請書面答復，謝謝！"],["張委員啓楷：好，抱歉喔！這個投資有其審核，請你把相關資料給我，好不好？"],["主席：有人在等了。好，相關資料請提供。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，好。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝！主委請回座。","下一位質詢請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員之後休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","speakers":["邱志偉","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","陳超明","謝衣鳯","吳春城","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","黃國昌","黃建賓","廖偉翔","羅智強","牛煦庭"],"page_start":237,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家發展委員會主任\n委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、\n人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}