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- 10:40:05","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、殯葬管理條例：\n(一)審查委員丁學忠等16人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(二)審查委員張嘉郡等29人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(三)審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)審查委員許宇甄等18人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(五)審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【詢答及處理；「本案歡迎各直轄市及縣(市)政府提供書面意見」】\n\n二、都市計畫法：\n(一)審查委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(二)審查委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(三)審查委員黃健豪等19人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(五)審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六)審查委員林沛祥等20人擬具「都市計畫法第八十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)審查委員廖先翔等16人擬具「都市計畫法第十九條及第八十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【本案僅詢答】）","gazette":{"lineno":444,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（10時30分）主席，請部長、還有司長。"],["主席：請部長、林司長。"],["林司長清淇：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：司長，我先請教一個問題，你去過嘉義市的公塔吧？"],["林司長清淇：是。"],["王委員美惠：現在公塔、特別是基督教的公塔不夠用，為此，我曾拜託你回來後研議，與嘉義市政府配合，請問現在如何？"],["林司長清淇：現在因為土地分區問題，包括坡度問題沒有解決，所以那部分還沒有下文。"],["王委員美惠：尚無下文？"],["林司長清淇：對。"],["王委員美惠：差不多何時才會有下文？"],["林司長清淇：我們會再跟嘉義市政府積極協調，看有沒有辦法找到地，這是一個比較關鍵的問題。"],["王委員美惠：對。說實在的，就算要蓋，也要蓋在安全的地方。其實嘉義市是比較特別的，因為那地方位在嘉義縣，以前多為墓地，至少項目為墓地，真要找並不困難。所以我希望司長與嘉義市政府用心找，不能因為不夠用就全部混在一起放。說實在的，要尊重大家的宗教信仰，而且有的宗教並不拿香拜拜，也不誦經，你要人家如何進入一個既拿香拜拜又誦經的地方？司長，這件事情拜託你費心一下。"],["林司長清淇：好，我再跟嘉義市政府積極協調，看有沒有辦法找到地，因為未來後面的公墓有沒有計畫要做，這些事情的取決都要有搭配。"],["王委員美惠：在基督教公塔前其實有一座基督教公墓，但如果蓋在那裡，會怕遮到後面告別式的舉辦，恐怕行不通。所以司長要協助嘉義市政府與教會，找一塊比較好的地方來蓋，畢竟現在已經滿了，拜託！"],["林司長清淇：好。"],["王委員美惠：部長、司長，本席現在要講的是，今天我們討論殯葬所條款，我覺得現在政府的環保做得很好，很多縣市都有樹葬，像臺北市樹葬不僅不用花錢，若先前祖先已經入塔但想改為樹葬的話，還可以領獎勵金。部長，今天我們剛好討論到這條條款，我們不是要中低收入戶就一定要樹葬，不過本席認為要宣導，因為未來樹葬很重要。差不多在15年到20年前，一提到火化大家都說不好，可是現在不但可以接受火化，還有樹葬。像臺北市的做法就可以推廣到各縣市去，司長、部長，你們覺得是不是應該讓各地方政府鼓勵民眾採用樹葬？請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員關心，委員站在環保與土地利用的角度來看問題，讓我非常敬佩。現階段全國採樹葬的總共有2萬7,375位，跟93年相比增加很多。但我們認為可以再加強，因為臺灣土地有限，如果大家都要入塔、都要用到墓地的話，會占到比較多的殯葬用地。但採樹葬就是讓屬於大自然的回歸到大自然，這其實是一個非常好的方向，所以我們會努力來宣導。"],["王委員美惠：部長，我覺得對於樹葬的宣導還不夠，最近臺北市就做得很好，甚至鼓勵已經火化的或已經入塔的祖先遷出改樹葬，且整個過程都仔細處理，這樣是行得通的。剛才部長說要用心做，也有很多同仁說這個條款是在幫助「艱苦人」，即使如此也要有配套。說實在，身為立委看到有人日子不好過，我們心裡也很難過，而且人生走到死亡階段，如果沒地方可埋葬是何等悲哀啊！地方上或許有慈善團體可以幫忙，但我們還是必須面對問題，讓問題可以處理得更好。部長，剛才大家說這是「艱苦人」條款，所謂的「艱苦人」條款就是要把條款修得更好，讓地方政府好好溝通。剛才部長提到，每個地方政府的政策不一定都一樣，所以必須給予協助，看未來遇到這問題時該怎麼做。像嘉義市也有這問題，也有很多慈善團體願意幫忙，但我認為其實不需要他們出面，因為政府就可以幫忙了，這是地方政府的問題，部長要補充說明嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：感謝委員，委員非常瞭解。跟委員報告，嘉義市現在有自辦樹葬……"],["王委員美惠：我知道。"],["劉部長世芳：不過是安置在嘉義縣……"],["王委員美惠：我知道在嘉義縣，這點非常特別。因為嘉義縣市分家時，那塊地就是嘉義市的財產，地點在嘉義縣三界埔。"],["劉部長世芳：對。至於委員提到的第二個部分，我剛才為什麼這樣說？大家都知道若要增加中低收入戶的優惠措施，「免收」聽起來是很不錯，但「免收」會變成各地方縣市政府要吸收費用，所以我們是站在中央的立場替所有的縣市政府講話。所謂「免收」並不是另外編一筆預算補助，不是這樣子的，而是「免收」！既然是「免收」，就是免除縣市地方政府收錢，這樣收入就會遞減；收入遞減的話，會造成各縣市地方政府財政上有些困擾。我剛剛有提到，我們每個縣市政府都去問過了，其實百分之百贊成的並不多，所以這就是我們面臨最大的一個困難跟挑戰，在這裡跟委員報告。"],["王委員美惠：目前我知道雲林有辦，所以可以問雲林的意見以及不辦理的意見，由中央來擔任橋梁解決問題，這點非常重要。"],["劉部長世芳：雲林縣有提到特殊境遇與其他經濟困頓者不希望納入……"],["王委員美惠：對、對。"],["劉部長世芳：也限制只有雲林縣縣民可以，事實上大家都有各種不同的困難……"],["王委員美惠：各縣市都會照顧自己的縣市民眾，這是理所當然的，只是要如何把這個福利做得更好，不要重複補助，以上。"],["劉部長世芳：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王美惠委員。","接下來請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":164,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-3","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張嘉郡","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","王育敏","丁學忠","許宇甄","廖先翔","林沛祥","黃健豪","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","李柏毅","黃捷","牛煦庭","黃國昌","李坤城","吳琪銘","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","廖偉翔","高金素梅","傅崐萁"],"page_start":87,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、殯葬管理條例：(一)審查委員丁學忠等16人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草\n案」案、( 二 ) 審查委員張嘉郡等29 人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(三)審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)審查委\n員許宇甄等18人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員羅廷瑋等\n17 人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案、 ( 六 ) 審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等16人擬具「殯葬管理條例第二十一條之一條文修正草案」案；二、都市計畫法：\n(一)審查委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員\n楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員黃健豪等19人\n擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「都市計\n畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三\n條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員林沛祥等20人擬具「都市計畫法第八十五條條文修正草\n案」案、( 七 ) 審查委員廖先翔等16 人擬具「都市計畫法第十九條及第八十二條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)審查委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「都市計畫法第八十三條之一條文修正草案」案【本案僅詢\n答】","agenda_id":"1137901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}