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主委"},{"start":157.01,"end":162.831,"text":"你認為社會安全網的執行成效究竟是如何?請做說明"},{"start":169.669,"end":183.593,"text":"成效的好壞要有前後期的比較因為我沒有前期的數字來比較我很難講他本期已經叫數字花了那麼多時間告訴你但是這個內容看起來是的確讓人覺得是比較讓人遺憾的數字這個是"},{"start":191.221,"end":214.301,"text":"選舉再強調一次政府花了475億做社會安全網我再給你一個數字2019年到2023年全台約有12000名的兒童跟少年受虐那換句話說每一年約有20名的未成年人在家中受虐致死"},{"start":215.265,"end":229.463,"text":"大家都說政府要做我們人民的靠山政府繳了稅金你花了475億做成的這樣子的成效請你告訴我要怎麼樣去保護呢請就說明"},{"start":235.641,"end":261.752,"text":"這個我並不清楚那470幾億的預算實際內容但是我想這個這個減少售內額的話應該會要從整個社會環境的改善跟預防我想這個也許我們會來請教一下那個相關的部會你現在給我這個回答我真的是非常難過我經常說國發會呢它不是單一單位"},{"start":262.847,"end":286.337,"text":"他橫向的因為你一個政策下去你必須要去了解你的KPI你達成的成效是什麼你現在告訴我你什麼都不知道我怎麼跟你討論本席再告訴你當時凱凱慘死的時候七年前我們台灣我們的政府你學到了什麼"},{"start":287.82,"end":306.57,"text":"預算下了你學到了什麼我們又看到發育不良的這個招募器的八天餓死高雄女嬰火化他沒有骨灰阿嬤累本所苦了你苦了你在這樣的情況之下10月1號的新聞連這麼重大我們花了475億五個鋪會"},{"start":317.628,"end":341.682,"text":"我們都不不清楚不痛不癢這個讓我們怎麼辦我把這個功課給你這五個部會你要發揮你國發會的一個本質一個政策社會安全往下去我們預算下去我們要怎麼樣去做怎麼去追蹤怎麼去改善這也就是為什麼預算要從議我們看不到答案"},{"start":347.677,"end":352.835,"text":"你去了解好不好把你的經濟方案給我們好不好多久時間可以告訴我們"},{"start":354.949,"end":380.275,"text":"一個月時間吧因為我們可能要去詢問各部分趕快去了解趕快去了解好不好趕快去了解一個月內將你的精進方案給我們好不好因為未來我們要審預算我們不希望只有看到預算下去我們看不到指標我們也不知道你們在做什麼但是社會新聞不斷的在產生這不是一個有為的政府"},{"start":381.015,"end":384.036,"text":"應當呈現的,好不好?他們都很努力,現在的現象!所以一個月內請將你今天的方案給我們,好不好?接下來本席要請問你,我們的人口統計的資料"},{"start":401.875,"end":413.709,"text":"那內政部、勞動部、教育部、主計單位都有各有職長國防會您每兩年一次的人口推估那包括了分析未來人口變動的趨勢今年8月29號你的"},{"start":418.675,"end":433.283,"text":"人口推估的國防會也發出了一個公告說表示配額行政院業務整體規劃有關未來人口出生死亡等推估原定在113年8月30延末到9月30下午4點發布但不到一個月"},{"start":437.845,"end":461.041,"text":"你的國發會又說了9月24號國發會又貼出了一個公告他寫了推估結果再一次延後到這個月的10月31號下午4點前發布所以我要請教主委一個政府兩年公告一次的你一言再言一言再言到底怎麼回事啊你還會在10月中再告訴我們再延嗎這個問題到底出了什麼問題人口推估的報告對於我們"},{"start":468.586,"end":481.236,"text":"對於我們優化生養的環境營運整個超高齡的社會充實能力的這一切資源都是非常的重要所以請問什麼時候要公布我們在10月16號國家發展委員會裡面會進行討論之後就會公布"},{"start":488.44,"end":511.627,"text":"確認你演了兩次什麼原因演原因我跟您報告一下第一次我希望他們瞭解國際的趨勢做一個比較而不是單純好你有作為我也給你認同第二次第二次是我要求他們要有準備答案不要公告數字沒有答案面對人民哇現任的國防會主任我讚許你沒有資料要怎麼怎麼怎麼去回應所以你打臉打了"},{"start":512.734,"end":534.655,"text":"前任主委的作為我希望我也認同你有作為請你在10月16日開完會也給社會大眾公布這一定會的好最後一個議題我功課給你就好地方創新本席非常非常的堅持113年4月16日你的報告當中國防會辦理清培站的計畫已經兩年我"},{"start":537.097,"end":552.506,"text":"所以你累進補助了4億本席一直關心也就是地方創新到目前為止你補助106案那總共只有6案是有產業的模式所以本席希望你要提出你的"},{"start":554.671,"end":579.793,"text":"這個績效評估機制本席要請教你什麼時候會提出我們也是會提供書面資料給委員所以這兩年來本席希望把制度做好你把我們可以量化的KPI市場競爭力要把你的制度定出來多久時間可以定出來我們之前的上個禮拜的外包案我就把它停下來我要求他們把KPI定好才能往下"},{"start":580.573,"end":590.406,"text":"請問什麼時候會公布我兩週內給你兩週內公布我們一起好好的來開創這個地方創新這是我們非常努力一定要做的事情好不好謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:43:15 - 10:53:08","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":371,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時43分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，請主委。"],["主席：請劉主委。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，我經常說國發會是我們國家的心臟跟頭腦，非常的重要，而一個國家必要的元素就是人民，所以今天我要跟你討論的是人口學的政策。我們2023年的新生兒是13萬5,571人，比較前一年，我們少了3,415人，以我屬龍的那一年總共將近41萬人。我用這個數據來告訴你，我們臺灣的出生額已經減少，但是我更憂心的一點就是看到我們新生兒的死亡率是年年在上升，2022年達到了千分之二點八，創下了15年來的最高。其中兒虐致死的部分，我們看到2021年的研究顯示，針對2011年至2020年5月28日居家保母與嬰幼兒事故傷害的108筆案件進行分析，就有109位受害者與118位被告，其中有69位受傷、40位死亡。我們看到這樣的一個情況，本席要請教國發會主委，就相關橫向的衛福部、教育部、勞動部、內政部、法務部這5個部會，你們花了475億的公帑來做社會安全網，但嬰幼兒事故傷害、死亡的新聞頻頻發生，主委，你認為社會安全網的執行成效究竟是如何？請做說明。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：成效的好壞要有前後期的比較，因為我沒有前期的數字來比較，我很難講它在短期間的改善……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席已經花了那麼多時間把數字告訴你了！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：但是這個內容看起來的確是比較讓人遺憾的數字，這個是我自己覺得的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席再強調一次，政府花了475億做社會安全網，我再給你一個數字，2019年到2023年全臺約有1萬2,000名的兒童跟少年受虐，每一年約有20名未成年人在家中受虐致死。大家都說，政府要做我們人民的靠山，政府將人民所繳的稅金花了475億卻做成了這樣子的成效，請你告訴我要怎麼樣去保護呢？請做說明。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我並不清楚那四百七十幾億預算的實際內容，但是我想減少受虐兒的話，應該要從整個社會環境來改善跟預防，我想這個也許我們會來請教一下相關的部會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，你現在給我這個回答，我真的是非常難過，我經常說國發會不是單一單位，是能橫向的，因為你一個政策下去，你必須要去了解你的KPI，你達成的成效是什麼，你現在告訴我你什麼都不知道，我怎麼跟你討論？","本席再告訴你，當時剴剴慘死的時候，7年前，我們臺灣、我們的政府學到了什麼？預算下了，你學到了什麼？我們又看到「發育不全遭母棄8天餓死！高雄女嬰火化沒骨灰，阿嬤淚崩：苦了妳」的新聞，這是10月1號的新聞，在這樣的情況下，連這麼重大的，我們花了475億，5個部會，我們都不清楚、不痛不癢，這個讓我們怎麼辦？我把這個功課給你，這5個部會，你要發揮國發會的本職，一個政策，社會安全網下去，我們預算下去，我們要怎麼樣去做、怎麼去追蹤、怎麼去改善，這也就是為什麼預算要重議，我們看不到答案。你去了解，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：把你的精進方案給我們，好不好？多久時間可以告訴我們？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：一個月的時間，因為我們可能要去詢問各部會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：趕快去了解，趕快去了解好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：趕快去了解，一個月內將你的精進方案給我們，好不好？因為未來我們要審預算，我們不希望只看到預算下去，我們看不到指標，也不知道你們在做什麼，但是社會新聞不斷地產生，這不是一個有為的政府應當呈現的，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我想各部會應該都……我們開會看下來，他們都很努力，我想我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：他們都很努力，但是現在的現象就是這樣！所以一個月內請將你精進的方案給我們，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要請問你，我們的人口統計資料，包括內政部、勞動部、教育部、主計單位都各有職掌，國發會您每兩年一次的人口推估，包括要分析未來人口變動的趨勢，今年8月29日負責人口推估的國發會發出公告表示，「配合行政院業務整體規劃，有關未來人口出生、死亡等推估結果由原訂113年8月30日延後到9月30日下午4時前發布」；但不到一個月，9月24日國發會又貼出一個公告，竟寫「推估結果再一次延後到這個月10月31日下午4時前發布。」所以我要請教主委，一個政府，兩年公告一次的人口推估，你一延再延、一延再延，到底怎麼回事？你還會在10月中再告訴我們再延嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個部分到底出了什麼問題？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：人口推估的報告，對於我們優化生養的環境，因應整個超高齡的社會，充實人力等一切資源，都非常的重要，所以請問，什麼時候要公布？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們在10月16號國家發展委員會的會議中進行討論之後就會公布，那我也……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：確認？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：確認。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你延了兩次，什麼原因延？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：原因我跟您報告一下，第一次，我希望他們了解國際的趨勢，做一個比較，而不是單純只看台灣的變化……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你有作為，我也給你認同。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：第二次是我要求他們要準備答案，不要只公告數字，卻沒有答案面對人民。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！哇，現任的國發會主委，我贊許你。沒有資料要怎麼去回應，所以你打了前任主委的作為，我希望、我也認同你有作為，請你在10月16號開完會，也給社會大眾公布，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這一定會的。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。最後一個議題，我給你功課就好。地方創新本席非常非常的堅持，監察院113年4月16日的調查報告指出：「國發會辦理青培站計畫已歷時2年餘……」……"],["主席：楊委員，時間到了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。你累計補助了4億元，本席一直關心，但地方創新施行至今，你補助106案，總共只有6案建立出產業模式，所以本席希望國發會要提出績效評估機制，本席要請教，你什麼時候會提出？"],["主席：好，謝謝，時間到。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們也會提供書面資料給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以這兩年來，本席希望把制度做好，你要把可以量化的KPI市場競爭力等制度訂出來，多久時間可以訂出來？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們上個禮拜的外包案，我已經把它停下來，我要求他們把KPI訂好才能往下做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，請問什麼時候會公布？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我兩週內給你。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：兩週內公布，我們一起好好來發展地方創新，這是我們非常努力一定要做的事情，好不好？謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員精準的發言。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：感恩。"],["主席：下一位請張嘉郡委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-3","speakers":["邱志偉","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","陳超明","謝衣鳯","吳春城","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","黃國昌","黃建賓","廖偉翔","羅智強","牛煦庭"],"page_start":237,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請國家發展委員會主任\n委員、經濟部次長就「我國政府對新創及中小企業扶植政策執行狀況與未來精進措施（含政策、\n人才、法制、稅制、資金、區域平衡等六大面向）」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}