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謝謝"},{"start":29.584,"end":52.071,"text":"那在這裡還是要感謝在這邊今天許多單位對於國內這個打詐的議題等同於是國安的議題在盡心盡力那在目前來講我們辦公室還其實有稍微看了一下這次的五個單位的一個報告那以及相關的資料我們剛才在辦公室也討論了很久"},{"start":53.692,"end":78.106,"text":"目前來講13億的經費在明年度希望能夠提升到73億提高的大約是4.8倍我們扣票封面在這次等於就是幾乎快年底了這五個在立法院的報告從上次的1.5到3月的時候在立法院專案報告到現在差不多也過了7個月那也算是一個期末考"},{"start":78.726,"end":104.026,"text":"那在這次的5個的專題報告行政院的報告是1308字通傳會是4895字書發部3626字金管會3886字法務部3078字共16793字這樣子的部分如果以13億的預算下去除大家今天在立法院的一個期末報告每個字價值是77413塊每一個字"},{"start":107.449,"end":125.788,"text":"那在明年度如果提升預算那在每個字的話換算他這個五份報告的成本每個字價值37萬每一個字那在這裡的話是提出的是錢要花在刀口上我們看到了其實是許多的提出的一個成效跟這個報告"},{"start":127.109,"end":146.26,"text":"當然跟民眾的期待還是有很大的落差啦所以還是期望說大家各單位各部會我們還是要持續的加油還讓這個打詐的這個績效還能夠更能夠有成果當然說字數跟報告的篇幅代表一切但是在目前來講大家看到許多的一個"},{"start":147.02,"end":166.403,"text":"打詐越打越多去年詐騙4萬件財損88億到今年的話甚至大幅的提高那在裡面有許多的部分我們都需要來做檢討那在這裡的話我想要先就教一下為什麼今天行政院打擊指揮中心的指揮官沒有來想請教一下子敏"},{"start":167.744,"end":181.954,"text":"感謝委員因為今天在排定的時候並沒有特別的指定層級那那個指揮官另外有其他的行程所以說我就先來如果有不周到的地方我們會立即轉達感謝委員"},{"start":182.935,"end":206.475,"text":"希望未來的話有關於打詐的議題這指揮關係一定要到當然我也肯定這個國師兄你的過去在偵察隊的這個對實務方面的這個經驗所以你才從不管是從我們看到不管是橫山分局長包括鳳林分局長到真六隊、真七隊還現在直接來擔綱如此重任"},{"start":207.296,"end":214.342,"text":"那我想問一下在目前行政院的打詐辦公室大概總共除了你之外有沒有副指揮官"},{"start":215.835,"end":244.317,"text":"跟委員報告目前整個那個設置條例是只有指揮官一名執行秘書一名但是我們各部會都有派駐相關的業務窗口進駐到打詐指揮中心那有沒有擴大其他還有多少新增的人力除了派駐是的目前我們也在研議有兩個部會因為有在實質上在施詐的面向是有需要的那指揮官也同時在跟院方的高層在討論要再增加新的人員"},{"start":246.86,"end":250.285,"text":"目前有需要的是會再多一到兩位會進來?"},{"start":262.179,"end":290.853,"text":"因為誠如各位委員都持續在關心的因為打詐的議題確實是一個目前牽涉到的國安問題那我們也希望發揮到團體打戰的力量那未來再需要的話今年度確實編列的不足那都只有在業務費用那未來會視狀況做滾動式的彈性調整本席還是要指出就是當然是肯定大家每一位打詐同仁的努力"},{"start":291.613,"end":320.664,"text":"那但是今天如果說這個等同於國安議題的這個打詐的問題啊還在這個指揮中心指揮官如果在重要會議沒關係下次的話邀請他一定要到那有沒有協同的副指揮官那以及說再增加一到兩名的人力這樣是否再整合這個相關的一些部會來講人力夠充足嗎派駐歸派駐因為這個指揮中心啊他的概念上他不是會診資料而已啊"},{"start":321.184,"end":348.029,"text":"他是要整合業務啊還要整合技術啊那如果說今天來講沒有增加更多的一個能力甚至專業的人才他就要來直接擔綱這個指揮中心的業務我坦白講這樣就單純就只是在會整個單位資料這樣是非常可惜那同樣的在指揮官從上一次的李憲明他是建築專業那帶到這次的馬思源那個副次長"},{"start":348.809,"end":377.503,"text":"他也是一個建築專業那本席在這裡還是要指出當然就是馬市長他過去來講這指揮官一定也有他的經驗在可是今天在打詐如此重要的這種議題上面這個不是賴游泳這個還是要以專業導向為主如果說今天是在警政或是在法務部檢察官等等或是相關通訊技術有專業的他包括像部長也是專業的大家在這個部分來去做整合"},{"start":378.263,"end":394.765,"text":"那我坦白講那這個大家相對不管朝野立委都比較能接受但是如果說只是做彙整的話我覺得話沒有辦法達到這個成效何況還要再把預算從13億提高到73億所以我覺得這個部分我覺得行政院必須要重新思考"},{"start":395.586,"end":422.352,"text":"那再來我們看到這個剛才有看到幾個就是通訊軟體不管是我們看到我們書發部其實有跟不管是Facebook、TikTok或是包括Line都來做這個相關的溝通或是喝咖啡那我想請教一下部長那目前這幾個就是廣告平台哪一個配合就是數位部的績效最好速度最快"},{"start":423.392,"end":451.792,"text":"報告委員其實這幾家平台都有誠意要配合因為他們也都覺得詐騙是一個很嚴重的問題那速度最快的是哪一個?大概你提的這6家的國華平台業者其實都有在配合這個速度我沒辦法講不過我也覺得就是說當然我們現在看到Facebook上的詐騙最多所以它下降的數目是最多因為目前我剛剛有講就是說在所謂有些是投資詐騙從過去一個月可以到8萬多假的投資詐騙到現在大概4萬"},{"start":452.793,"end":454.774,"text":"我相信各種的網路上虛擬都必須要以實名為主"},{"start":472.944,"end":495.719,"text":"那再來剛才有提到這個LINE的部分他們要傳票、搜索票才能夠提供這個進度儘不論目前有核定多少張、辦過多少案這一個概念啊今天家是自己買的找小偷了找警察把小偷趕走了就到說這個家變成不是自己的就變成是小偷的就像LINE的帳號被暴用的帳號一樣"},{"start":496.94,"end":511.234,"text":"所以我覺得說數大部還是要積極溝通不僅是實名制還有包括這些被盜用帳號的人能夠歸還帳號我覺得還是要有賴部長下一次溝通後能夠跟各界說明我這個回去再跟那裡去討論好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:04.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:05.749000+08:00","text":"感謝召委。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:07.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:13.292000+08:00","text":"先有請數位發展部部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:13.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:14.192000+08:00","text":"請黃部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:14.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:18.654000+08:00","text":"以及行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心黃國師執秘。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:18.654000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:22.210667+08:00","text":"請黃執秘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:22.210667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:25.767333+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:25.767333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:29.324000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:29.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:38.987000+08:00","text":"我還是要感謝今天在這邊的許多單位，對國內打詐議題─等同是國安的議題盡心盡力。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:41.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:13:58.475000+08:00","text":"我的辦公室稍微看了一下這次五個單位的報告以及相關資料，剛剛在辦公室也討論了很久，以目前來講13億元的經費，在明年度希望能夠提升到73億元嘛！","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:13:58.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:14:00.576000+08:00","text":"等於提高了大約4.8倍。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:14:02.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:14:17.086000+08:00","text":"扣掉封面……這次幾乎快要年底了，這五份立法院報告從今年三月在立法院專案報告到現在，差不多過了七個月，也算是期末考。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:14:17.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:14:43.006000+08:00","text":"在這次五個單位的專題報告中，行政院的報告是1,308字，通傳會是4,895字，數發部3,626字、金管會3,886字、法務部3,078字，共1萬6,793字，在這個部分，如果以13億元的預算下去除，大家今天在立法院的期末報告每個字價值是7萬7,413元──每個字！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:14:47.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:14:57.060000+08:00","text":"明年度如果提升預算，再換算五份報告的成本，每個字價值37萬元──每個字！","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:14:57.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:15:00.764000+08:00","text":"我在這裡要提出的是錢要花在刀口上！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:15:00.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:15:08.871000+08:00","text":"我們看到你們提出許多成效跟報告，但跟民眾的期待還是有很大的落差啦！","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:15:09.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:15:18.656000+08:00","text":"所以我還是期望各單位、各部會要持續加油，讓打詐績效更能夠有成果。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:15:19.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:15:37.073000+08:00","text":"當然，字數跟報告篇幅不代表一切，但是在目前來講，大家看到打詐愈打愈多，去年詐騙四萬件、財損88億元，到今年甚至大幅提高，在裡面有許多部分都需要檢討。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:15:37.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:15:44.441000+08:00","text":"我想先就教一下，為什麼今天行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心的指揮官沒有來？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:15:44.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:15:44.942000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下執秘。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T11:15:46.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:15:48.305000+08:00","text":"感謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T11:15:48.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:15:58.172000+08:00","text":"因為今天議程排定時並沒有特別指定層級，而指揮官另外有其他行程，所以我就先來。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T11:15:58.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:16:00.794000+08:00","text":"如果有不周到的地方，我們會立即轉達。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:16:02.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:16:05.338000+08:00","text":"請問未來的話有關打詐議題，指揮官是不是一定要到？是。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:16:06.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:16:25.455000+08:00","text":"當然我也肯定國師兄您過去在偵查隊對於實務方面的經驗，所以我們才看到您從橫山分局長、鳳林分局長，到偵六隊、偵七隊，現在還直接來擔綱如此重任。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:16:26.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:16:33.322000+08:00","text":"那我想問一下，在目前行政院的打詐辦公室，除了你之外，有沒有副指揮官？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T11:16:34.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:16:47.225000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前依整個設置條例是只有指揮官一名、執行秘書一名，但是各部會都有派駐相關業務窗口進駐打詐指揮中心。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:16:47.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:16:51.408000+08:00","text":"有沒有擴大、還有多少新增人力，除了派駐？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T11:16:51.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:17:03.317000+08:00","text":"是的，目前我們也在研議，有兩個部會因為實質上在識詐面向是有需要的，指揮官也同時在跟院方高層討論，要再增加新的人員跟能量。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:17:03.317000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:17:05.860000+08:00","text":"預計增加多少？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T11:17:05.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:17:09.285000+08:00","text":"目前有需要的是會再多一到兩位進來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:17:09.285000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:17:15.542000+08:00","text":"只有增加一到兩位？","quality":0},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:17:15.542000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:17:21.799000+08:00","text":"那這個辦公室預計還要增加多少預算、多少經費，以在明年達到快速打詐的目標？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T11:17:21.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:17:33.945000+08:00","text":"誠如各位委員都持續關心的，打詐議題目前確實牽涉到國安問題，我們也希望發揮團體打仗的力量。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T11:17:35.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:17:43.630000+08:00","text":"未來需要的話……今年度確實編列得不足，都只在業務費用，未來會視狀況作滾動式的彈性調整。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:17:44.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:17:49.833000+08:00","text":"本席還是要指出，我當然肯定大家、每一位打詐同仁的努力啦！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:17:50.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:18:01.617000+08:00","text":"但是今天面對等同國安議題的打詐問題，指揮官面對重要會議，下次邀請他一定要到。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:18:02.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:18:13.682000+08:00","text":"此外，有沒有協同的副指揮官以及再增加一到兩名人力、是否再整合一些相關部會，人力夠充足嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:18:13.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:18:21.284000+08:00","text":"派駐歸派駐，但指揮中心在概念上不是只有彙整資料而已，而是要整合業務啊！","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:18:21.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:18:22.524000+08:00","text":"還要整合技術啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:18:23.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:18:36.907000+08:00","text":"以今天來講，若沒有增加更多人力、甚至叫專業的人才直接擔綱這個指揮中心的業務，我坦白講，這樣就只是單純在彙整各單位資料，這樣非常可惜！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:18:37.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:19:05.397000+08:00","text":"同樣的，指揮官從上一次的李憲明是建築專業，再到這次的馬士元次長，也是建築專業，但本席在這裡還是要指出：當然，馬次長作為指揮官，過去一定也有他的經驗在，可是今天在打詐這種如此重要的議題上，真的不能找「賴友友」，還是要以專業導向為主。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:19:06.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:19:21.168000+08:00","text":"如果是警政或法務部檢察官等等、或是在通訊相關技術有專業者，包括部長也有專業，大家在這個部分做整合，我坦白講，這樣不管是朝野立委，大家都比較能接受。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:19:21.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:19:29.660000+08:00","text":"如果只是彙整的話，我覺得就沒有辦法達到成效，何況還要再把預算從13億元提高到73億元！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:19:29.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:19:33.745000+08:00","text":"所以就這個部分，我覺得行政院必須重新思考。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:19:34.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:20:01.332000+08:00","text":"再來，剛才有看到數發部其實有跟幾個通訊軟體業者─不管是Facebook、TikTok或LINE，都作了相關的溝通或是喝咖啡，那我想請教一下部長，目前在這幾個廣告平臺中，哪一個配合數發部的績效最好、速度最快？","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T11:20:02.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:20:08.417000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實這幾家平臺都有誠意要配合，因為他們也都覺得詐騙是個很嚴重的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:20:08.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:20:10.458000+08:00","text":"那剛才提的這六家廣告平臺業者速度最快的是哪一個？","quality":0.435},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T11:20:13.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:20:30.792000+08:00","text":"其實都有在配合，速度我沒辦法講，不過我們現在看到在Facebook上面的詐騙最多，所以它下降的數目最多，如同我剛才講的，尤其是投資詐騙，從過去一個月可以到八萬多個假投資詐騙，現在大概一萬多……","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:20:30.792000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:20:41.438000+08:00","text":"部長，因為時間有限，我跟你補充一下。","quality":0.067},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:20:41.438000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:20:52.084000+08:00","text":"延續剛才許多委員所提，包括Facebook，這些廣告平臺業者必須要以實名制來作登錄，這個一定要推動，因為不僅是詐騙，也包括網路霸凌，我相信網路上各種虛擬都必須以實名為主。","quality":0.103},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:20:52.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:20:57.808000+08:00","text":"再來，剛才提到LINE的部分，他們要求要有傳票、搜索票才能提供進一步資訊。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:20:58.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:21:14.719000+08:00","text":"先不論現在核定多少張、辦過多少案，我今天講一個概念：家是自己買的，遭小偷了，找警察把小偷趕走了，結果這個家卻變成不是自己的、變成小偷的，這就像LINE的帳號被盜用一樣。","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:21:15.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:21:27.792000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得數發部還是要積極溝通，不僅是實名制，還包括向被盜用帳號的人歸還帳號，還是有賴部長下一次溝通後能夠跟各界說明。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T11:21:28.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:21:30.214000+08:00","text":"好，這個我回去後會再跟LINE討論。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2024-10-07T11:21:30.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T11:21:30.234000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T11:21:30.734000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:21:32.448286+08:00","text":"謝謝游顥委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T11:21:32.748286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T11:21:36.176857+08:00","text":"接下來有請黃健豪委員發言。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:12:59 - 11:21:35","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":569,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（11時13分）感謝召委。先有請數位發展部部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["游委員顥：以及行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心黃國師執秘。"],["主席：請黃執秘。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["游委員顥：部長好。","我還是要感謝今天在這邊的許多單位，對國內打詐議題─等同是國安的議題盡心盡力。我的辦公室稍微看了一下這次五個單位的報告以及相關資料，剛剛在辦公室也討論了很久，以目前來講13億元的經費，在明年度希望能夠提升到73億元嘛！等於提高了大約4.8倍。扣掉封面……這次幾乎快要年底了，這五份立法院報告從今年三月在立法院專案報告到現在，差不多過了七個月，也算是期末考。在這次五個單位的專題報告中，行政院的報告是1,308字，通傳會是4,895字，數發部3,626字、金管會3,886字、法務部3,078字，共1萬6,793字，在這個部分，如果以13億元的預算下去除，大家今天在立法院的期末報告每個字價值是7萬7,413元──每個字！明年度如果提升預算，再換算五份報告的成本，每個字價值37萬元──每個字！","我在這裡要提出的是錢要花在刀口上！我們看到你們提出許多成效跟報告，但跟民眾的期待還是有很大的落差啦！所以我還是期望各單位、各部會要持續加油，讓打詐績效更能夠有成果。當然，字數跟報告篇幅不代表一切，但是在目前來講，大家看到打詐愈打愈多，去年詐騙四萬件、財損88億元，到今年甚至大幅提高，在裡面有許多部分都需要檢討。我想先就教一下，為什麼今天行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心的指揮官沒有來？我想請教一下執秘。"],["黃執行秘書國師：感謝委員。因為今天議程排定時並沒有特別指定層級，而指揮官另外有其他行程，所以我就先來。如果有不周到的地方，我們會立即轉達。"],["游委員顥：請問未來的話有關打詐議題，指揮官是不是一定要到？"],["黃執行秘書國師：是。"],["游委員顥：當然我也肯定國師兄您過去在偵查隊對於實務方面的經驗，所以我們才看到您從橫山分局長、鳳林分局長，到偵六隊、偵七隊，現在還直接來擔綱如此重任。","那我想問一下，在目前行政院的打詐辦公室，除了你之外，有沒有副指揮官？"],["黃執行秘書國師：跟委員報告，目前依整個設置條例是只有指揮官一名、執行秘書一名，但是各部會都有派駐相關業務窗口進駐打詐指揮中心。"],["游委員顥：有沒有擴大、還有多少新增人力，除了派駐？"],["黃執行秘書國師：是的，目前我們也在研議，有兩個部會因為實質上在識詐面向是有需要的，指揮官也同時在跟院方高層討論，要再增加新的人員跟能量。"],["游委員顥：預計增加多少？"],["黃執行秘書國師：目前有需要的是會再多一到兩位進來。"],["游委員顥：只有增加一到兩位？","那這個辦公室預計還要增加多少預算、多少經費，以在明年達到快速打詐的目標？"],["黃執行秘書國師：誠如各位委員都持續關心的，打詐議題目前確實牽涉到國安問題，我們也希望發揮團體打仗的力量。未來需要的話……今年度確實編列得不足，都只在業務費用，未來會視狀況作滾動式的彈性調整。"],["游委員顥：本席還是要指出，我當然肯定大家、每一位打詐同仁的努力啦！但是今天面對等同國安議題的打詐問題，指揮官面對重要會議，下次邀請他一定要到。此外，有沒有協同的副指揮官以及再增加一到兩名人力、是否再整合一些相關部會，人力夠充足嗎？派駐歸派駐，但指揮中心在概念上不是只有彙整資料而已，而是要整合業務啊！還要整合技術啊！以今天來講，若沒有增加更多人力、甚至叫專業的人才直接擔綱這個指揮中心的業務，我坦白講，這樣就只是單純在彙整各單位資料，這樣非常可惜！同樣的，指揮官從上一次的李憲明是建築專業，再到這次的馬士元次長，也是建築專業，但本席在這裡還是要指出：當然，馬次長作為指揮官，過去一定也有他的經驗在，可是今天在打詐這種如此重要的議題上，真的不能找「賴友友」，還是要以專業導向為主。如果是警政或法務部檢察官等等、或是在通訊相關技術有專業者，包括部長也有專業，大家在這個部分做整合，我坦白講，這樣不管是朝野立委，大家都比較能接受。如果只是彙整的話，我覺得就沒有辦法達到成效，何況還要再把預算從13億元提高到73億元！所以就這個部分，我覺得行政院必須重新思考。","再來，剛才有看到數發部其實有跟幾個通訊軟體業者─不管是Facebook、TikTok或LINE，都作了相關的溝通或是喝咖啡，那我想請教一下部長，目前在這幾個廣告平臺中，哪一個配合數發部的績效最好、速度最快？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，其實這幾家平臺都有誠意要配合，因為他們也都覺得詐騙是個很嚴重的問題。"],["游委員顥：那剛才提的這六家廣告平臺業者速度最快的是哪一個？"],["黃部長彥男：其實都有在配合，速度我沒辦法講，不過我們現在看到在Facebook上面的詐騙最多，所以它下降的數目最多，如同我剛才講的，尤其是投資詐騙，從過去一個月可以到八萬多個假投資詐騙，現在大概一萬多……"],["游委員顥：部長，因為時間有限，我跟你補充一下。延續剛才許多委員所提，包括Facebook，這些廣告平臺業者必須要以實名制來作登錄，這個一定要推動，因為不僅是詐騙，也包括網路霸凌，我相信網路上各種虛擬都必須以實名為主。","再來，剛才提到LINE的部分，他們要求要有傳票、搜索票才能提供進一步資訊。先不論現在核定多少張、辦過多少案，我今天講一個概念：家是自己買的，遭小偷了，找警察把小偷趕走了，結果這個家卻變成不是自己的、變成小偷的，這就像LINE的帳號被盜用一樣。所以我覺得數發部還是要積極溝通，不僅是實名制，還包括向被盜用帳號的人歸還帳號，還是有賴部長下一次溝通後能夠跟各界說明。"],["黃部長彥男：好，這個我回去後會再跟LINE討論。"],["游委員顥：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝游顥委員。","接下來有請黃健豪委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":88,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-4","speakers":["魯明哲","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","邱若華","廖先翔","陳雪生","徐富癸","洪孟楷","李坤城","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","郭國文","林月琴","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、\n內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}