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對不對你是被動的去檢舉人家檢舉8天之後你再去處理還是你們主動去上網去看這個是民眾他去"},{"start":253.191,"end":267.965,"text":"接到詐騙以後然後詐騙集團他到請他到金融機關去匯款所以他才攔住金融機關的攔住一天50次一天50件有報案的那沒有報案的黑書有幾件可能更多啊"},{"start":270.137,"end":295.763,"text":"所以為什麼會有這個問題就是他們透過網路平台得到這些訊息得到這些詐騙的訊息之後他才被誘騙去轉帳或之類的對不對對 所以我們才會其他的部會就數位部還有其他部會你們是執行單位但是誰是網路平台的這個主管機關數位部數位部是哪一位代表部長嗎黃部長"},{"start":299.019,"end":299.66,"text":"網路平台的配合度怎麼樣?"},{"start":320.003,"end":333.197,"text":"我實驗到了,因為我遵守這個發言的規定你能不能在書面資料給我就是說你作為一個網路平台的主觀者你要怎麼樣去打詐防詐目前最新的資料給我謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:50:31.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:50:37.559000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請打詐辦公室指揮中心黃執秘、警政署李副署長和黃副局長。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T13:50:37.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:50:37.699000+08:00","text":"請黃執秘、李副署長。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:50:37.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:51:07.193000+08:00","text":"大概主席也有同感，每個會期在各個委員會召開打詐的專案會議最起碼有10次以上，內政委員會也召開，今天交通委員會召開，司法及法制委員會也召開，財政委員會也召開，也許連我經濟委員會也會召開，為什麼那麼多的委員會都要召開？","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:51:07.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:51:25.886000+08:00","text":"如果你真的打詐有用的話，產生嚇阻效果，而且讓人民有感，我們透過打詐四法，以前的五法，現在的四法，如果確實發揮作用，讓人民受損的金額降低，案件數減少，我想就不會那麼密集的來召開打詐會議。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:51:27.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:51:36.846000+08:00","text":"我先請教一下指揮中心黃執秘，你的角色，站在行政院的高度，打詐辦公室有多少編制？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T13:51:38.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:51:47.261000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前打詐辦公室除了指揮官一人、執行秘書一人以外，各部會目前還有6位……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:51:47.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:51:49.082000+08:00","text":"你們是任務編組嘛！是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:51:50.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:51:50.822000+08:00","text":"你們是指揮協調嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:51:50.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:51:51.463000+08:00","text":"還是什麼？我們……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:51:51.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:51:58.506000+08:00","text":"還是做為一個匯報中心，各部會的資料你要匯報給行政院長？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T13:51:58.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:03.769000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，打詐指揮中心的核心目標是要統合跨部會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:04.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:05.110000+08:00","text":"這個統合的功能有沒有出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:05.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:07.733000+08:00","text":"目前持續在推動努力當中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:07.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:08.675000+08:00","text":"指揮官是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:08.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:09.556000+08:00","text":"內政部長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:09.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:11.500000+08:00","text":"是內政部政務次長馬士元。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:13.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:14.865000+08:00","text":"馬次長可以協調那麼多部會嗎？目前……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:15.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:16.468000+08:00","text":"這個指揮中心多久開一次會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃執行秘書國師","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:21.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:29.782000+08:00","text":"從8月27日馬次長擔任指揮官以來，已經有二次召開跨部會的會議，目前……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:30.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:31.483000+08:00","text":"有這個任務編組要發揮功能啦！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:32.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:39.947000+08:00","text":"你要協助各部會，在執行面有碰到哪些問題、資源有哪些不夠、法制面的不足，你們要去了解。是。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:40.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:52:44.350000+08:00","text":"而不是為了成立任務編組而編組。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:52:45.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:53:33.987000+08:00","text":"警政署李副署長、黃副局長，你們的新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領112年打詐五法，113年要通過打詐四法，這個打詐四法通過之後，你們警政署透過金融機構合作，今年1月到8月阻攔了1萬2,000件，我算了一下，平均一天會發生50件，沒有錯嘛？是。","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:53:37.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:53:40.465000+08:00","text":"有沒有做過相關統計，是在都會區比較多還是非都會區比較多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:53:41.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:53:43.285000+08:00","text":"區域別有沒有做過統計，是北部比較多還是南部比較多？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"李副署長政曉","start":"2024-10-07T13:53:44.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:53:46.106000+08:00","text":"六都的件數會比較多一點。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:53:48.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:53:49.047000+08:00","text":"六都的件數比較多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:53:50.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:53:58.449000+08:00","text":"所以你要分析為什麼六都的件數會比較多，因為他使用網路平臺的機會比較大，所以犯罪的淵藪在哪裡？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:00.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:54:01.085000+08:00","text":"魔鬼藏在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:01.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:54:01.966000+08:00","text":"就在平臺嘛！對。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:03.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:54:20.181000+08:00","text":"你沒有一個平臺就沒有給他犯罪的可能性跟空間嘛，所以那麼多的打詐作為，你就是把平臺管理好就好，要嚴管平臺、嚴打平臺，給他們最強的約束力跟拘束力，你如果做不到，你就滾出臺灣，這個你要拿出這種魄力啊！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:20.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:54:27.845000+08:00","text":"你要了解所有的詐騙都是透過這些平臺嘛，你也心知肚明嘛，對不對？對。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:27.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:54:31.367000+08:00","text":"你是被動的等人家檢舉、報案之後再去處理，還是你們主動上網去看？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"李副署長政曉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:31.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:54:46.998000+08:00","text":"這個是民眾接到詐騙以後，然後詐騙集團請他到金融機關去匯款，所以它才攔阻，金融機構的攔阻……你看！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:47.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:54:52.463000+08:00","text":"副署長，一天50次耶，一天50件是有報案的，沒有報案的黑數有幾件？","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:53.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:54:53.945000+08:00","text":"可能更多啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:54:56.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:08.680000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼會有這些問題，就是他們透過網路平臺得到這些訊息，得到這些詐騙的訊息之後，他才被誘騙去轉帳或之類的，對不對？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"李副署長政曉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:08.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:12.380000+08:00","text":"對，所以才會有其他的部會，包括數位部還有其他部會針對第一線……","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:12.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:13.541000+08:00","text":"你們是執行單位……是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:13.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:18.562000+08:00","text":"但是誰是網路平臺的主管機關？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副署長政曉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:18.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:18.742000+08:00","text":"數位部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:18.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:19.742000+08:00","text":"數位部？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:19.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:21.282000+08:00","text":"數位部是哪一位代表？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:21.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:21.743000+08:00","text":"部長嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:21.743000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:23.381000+08:00","text":"黃部長，重點是在你們對於平臺要怎麼管理好，對不對？","quality":0.136},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:23.381000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:25.019000+08:00","text":"有，現在就是剛剛所講的，我們第一個工具是打詐專法的管理要求實名制，所以假名人、假廣告會減少，因為實名制的關係，那個是我們期待在今年年底子法宣布之後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:25.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:25.660000+08:00","text":"那網路平臺的配合度怎麼樣？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:25.660000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:46.504000+08:00","text":"事實上我們跟他們……","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:46.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:49.166000+08:00","text":"我的時間到了，我要遵守發言時間的規定。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:49.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:50.166000+08:00","text":"對，有，他們的基本上都有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:49.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:52.390000+08:00","text":"你那個部分再提供書面資料給我。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:52.390000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:53.391000+08:00","text":"好，我再提供書面資料給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:53.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:55.593000+08:00","text":"就是說，你做為網路平臺的主管者……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:55.593000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:56.593000+08:00","text":"網路廣告平臺。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:56.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:59.097000+08:00","text":"你要怎麼樣去打詐、防詐，把目前最新的資料給我。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:59.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-07T13:55:59.197000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T13:55:59.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:56:01.697000+08:00","text":"謝謝邱志偉委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T13:56:01.997000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:56:04.568429+08:00","text":"接下來請張嘉郡委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T13:56:04.868429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:56:07.725571+08:00","text":"張嘉郡，張嘉郡委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-07T13:56:08.025571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-07T13:56:11.168429+08:00","text":"下一位請郭國文委員發言。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-07T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:50:26 - 13:56:03","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1373,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（13時50分）謝謝主席，請打詐辦公室指揮中心黃執秘、警政署李副署長和黃副局長。"],["主席：請黃執秘、李副署長。"],["邱委員志偉：大概主席也有同感，每個會期在各個委員會召開打詐的專案會議最起碼有10次以上，內政委員會也召開，今天交通委員會召開，司法及法制委員會也召開，財政委員會也召開，也許連我經濟委員會也會召開，為什麼那麼多的委員會都要召開？如果你真的打詐有用的話，產生嚇阻效果，而且讓人民有感，我們透過打詐四法，以前的五法，現在的四法，如果確實發揮作用，讓人民受損的金額降低，案件數減少，我想就不會那麼密集的來召開打詐會議。","我先請教一下指揮中心黃執秘，你的角色，站在行政院的高度，打詐辦公室有多少編制？"],["黃執行秘書國師：跟委員報告，目前打詐辦公室除了指揮官一人、執行秘書一人以外，各部會目前還有6位……"],["邱委員志偉：你們是任務編組嘛！"],["黃執行秘書國師：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你們是指揮協調嗎？還是什麼？"],["黃執行秘書國師：我們……"],["邱委員志偉：還是做為一個匯報中心，各部會的資料你要匯報給行政院長？"],["黃執行秘書國師：跟委員報告，打詐指揮中心的核心目標是要統合跨部會……"],["邱委員志偉：這個統合的功能有沒有出來？"],["黃執行秘書國師：目前持續在推動努力當中。"],["邱委員志偉：指揮官是誰？內政部長？"],["黃執行秘書國師：是內政部政務次長馬士元。"],["邱委員志偉：馬次長可以協調那麼多部會嗎？"],["黃執行秘書國師：目前……"],["邱委員志偉：這個指揮中心多久開一次會？"],["黃執行秘書國師：從8月27日馬次長擔任指揮官以來，已經有二次召開跨部會的會議，目前……"],["邱委員志偉：有這個任務編組要發揮功能啦！你要協助各部會，在執行面有碰到哪些問題、資源有哪些不夠、法制面的不足，你們要去了解。"],["黃執行秘書國師：是。"],["邱委員志偉：而不是為了成立任務編組而編組。","警政署李副署長、黃副局長，你們的新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領112年打詐五法，113年要通過打詐四法，這個打詐四法通過之後，你們警政署透過金融機構合作，今年1月到8月阻攔了1萬2,000件，我算了一下，平均一天會發生50件，沒有錯嘛？"],["李副署長政曉：是。"],["邱委員志偉：有沒有做過相關統計，是在都會區比較多還是非都會區比較多？區域別有沒有做過統計，是北部比較多還是南部比較多？"],["李副署長政曉：六都的件數會比較多一點。"],["邱委員志偉：六都的件數比較多？所以你要分析為什麼六都的件數會比較多，因為他使用網路平臺的機會比較大，所以犯罪的淵藪在哪裡？魔鬼藏在哪裡？就在平臺嘛！"],["李副署長政曉：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你沒有一個平臺就沒有給他犯罪的可能性跟空間嘛，所以那麼多的打詐作為，你就是把平臺管理好就好，要嚴管平臺、嚴打平臺，給他們最強的約束力跟拘束力，你如果做不到，你就滾出臺灣，這個你要拿出這種魄力啊！你要了解所有的詐騙都是透過這些平臺嘛，你也心知肚明嘛，對不對？"],["李副署長政曉：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你是被動的等人家檢舉、報案之後再去處理，還是你們主動上網去看？"],["李副署長政曉：這個是民眾接到詐騙以後，然後詐騙集團請他到金融機關去匯款，所以它才攔阻，金融機構的攔阻……"],["邱委員志偉：你看！副署長，一天50次耶，一天50件是有報案的，沒有報案的黑數有幾件？可能更多啊！所以為什麼會有這些問題，就是他們透過網路平臺得到這些訊息，得到這些詐騙的訊息之後，他才被誘騙去轉帳或之類的，對不對？"],["李副署長政曉：對，所以才會有其他的部會，包括數位部還有其他部會針對第一線……"],["邱委員志偉：你們是執行單位……"],["李副署長政曉：是。"],["邱委員志偉：但是誰是網路平臺的主管機關？"],["李副署長政曉：數位部。"],["邱委員志偉：數位部？"],["李副署長政曉：是。"],["邱委員志偉：數位部是哪一位代表？部長嗎？黃部長，重點是在你們對於平臺要怎麼管理好，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：有，現在就是剛剛所講的，我們第一個工具是打詐專法的管理要求實名制，所以假名人、假廣告會減少，因為實名制的關係，那個是我們期待在今年年底子法宣布之後……"],["邱委員志偉：那網路平臺的配合度怎麼樣？"],["黃部長彥男：事實上我們跟他們……"],["邱委員志偉：我的時間到了，我要遵守發言時間的規定。"],["黃部長彥男：對，有，他們的基本上都有……"],["邱委員志偉：你那個部分再提供書面資料給我。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我再提供書面資料給委員。"],["邱委員志偉：就是說，你做為網路平臺的主管者……"],["黃部長彥男：網路廣告平臺。"],["邱委員志偉：你要怎麼樣去打詐、防詐，把目前最新的資料給我。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱志偉委員。","接下來請張嘉郡委員。張嘉郡，張嘉郡委員不在。","下一位請郭國文委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":88,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-4","speakers":["魯明哲","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","邱若華","廖先翔","陳雪生","徐富癸","洪孟楷","李坤城","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","郭國文","林月琴","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、法務部、\n內政部警政署、內政部警政署刑事警察局、金融監督管理委員會就「我國打詐成效與防制」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}