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送到大會去 不知道可不可以"},{"start":172.787,"end":190.041,"text":"委員過去的努力我確實不是正常的但我知道現在9月26號內政部正在召開都委會的專案小組請部長來說明今天為什麼我們會在這邊提因為拖太久了所以每一次專案小組都在前行提要"},{"start":192.645,"end":201.581,"text":"我先說明一下我的一些問題每一次專案小組都在前進提要都在講說之前發生這個案子是怎樣怎樣怎樣為什麼 因為是在拖太久"},{"start":202.509,"end":220.406,"text":"所以這個又浪費了非常多的時間然後每一次專案小組跟專案小組中間又隔非常久你看上一次是5月7號後來就排了9月26號5月7號之前又更是新北市政府是半年前就提報內政部半年之後才安排專案小組這其實都是浪費時間"},{"start":221.627,"end":241.509,"text":"然後再來就是一次專小組所提出來的結論我看到也是覺得非常的 我不太能接受因為他說叫新北市政府再提供有一些路段他排圍區段徵收的原則到底是什麼然後他說叫新北市政府去調查那個福州當地的現況以及違章工廠使用情形"},{"start":242.109,"end":270.367,"text":"這些東西這些資料早就有了結果你隔了這麼久開的專案小組還叫人家在做早就做的事情這就把這個都市計畫的審議變成一種作文比賽感覺好像就沒有很想要這個都市計畫通過所以我就是在這邊請院長關心請部長關心我還沒講完請院長關心請部長關心這個拖很久是我們地方的期待趕快設定一個階段性的目標我們希望明年中的時候把它送出大會"},{"start":271.027,"end":271.147,"text":"主席"},{"start":288.407,"end":288.787,"text":"院長可以嗎可以嗎 院長"},{"start":318.649,"end":321.194,"text":"我們是有階段性的目標在往前推動沒有錯啊盡量啦好不好"},{"start":326.82,"end":352.959,"text":"你現在就唸資料而已啊你也沒有了解我們這案子啊你也沒去開會啊但是你有剛有提到污水下水道的部分啊我也要跟你講污水下水道是因為要經過區段徵收因為污水下水道要經過一些公有土地嘛那邊就卡住了嘛經過區段徵收重劃之後就可以興建金北市政府在10月1號的時候已經提送了這個設計報告因為我還有其他議題你在那邊唸資料就等於有點浪費我的時間沒有我已經跟你講我們10月1號的實際進度"},{"start":353.439,"end":382.365,"text":"我們可以請內政部把這個開會的時間把它弄得緊密一點然後希望在那個更換專業小組的學者專家之前可以趕快送大會否則要一直 要解決爭議不然就是要一直一直要前傾提要一直要告訴新的委員說這個發生什麼事情希望新北市政府不要一案一案解決這個是都市計畫的案子你也要插話這不是政治議題你是奇怪性插話喔對不起對不起不是部長你真的很奇怪欸我在講都市計畫你也要插話"},{"start":383.485,"end":383.665,"text":"請你下去"},{"start":412.09,"end":435.54,"text":"好謝謝院長接下來我想跟請教一下剛剛文房部發布了一個非常重要的一個話題就是10月10號的時候中共要射火箭這個事情你知道嗎他現在已經發布公布已經發布了這個很長一段階段他都在台灣的不是啦我問你剛剛的事情啦剛剛發布了啦說已經要射火箭要經過會通過台灣"},{"start":438.69,"end":465.541,"text":"這可能是不是之前講的國安單位掌握的聯合利劍B當時就已經說了可能會發射中程導彈沒有錯我希望他的演習是針對他自己所瑕有效範圍內做他自己軍事的演練對這種防害到區域安全印太地區安全跟穩定的動作希望中國能夠有所節制你在這邊呼籲他節制他就會節制嗎不會所以你的因應作為是什麼"},{"start":466.667,"end":492.217,"text":"我們做好自己的準備什麼啊就是所有的過程我們要請軍方單位能夠詳細的瞭解甚至監控瞭解不會對人民造成任何的威脅因為有關於中共聯合利劍逼這個計畫已經講了兩三天了那你現在是說要請國防部瞭解我現在事先都沒有掌握狀況嗎一直有瞭解那你現在掌握狀況是怎樣"},{"start":493.989,"end":512.841,"text":"很多事情我不便在這裏說那我們因應作為可以說嗎因應作為就是就以前現在這個不只是聯合利劍B他過去有很多的演練啊我們都持續在瞭解當然是這樣院長我現在是針對非常具體的問題在問你我現在針對非常具體的問題在問你那你告訴我SOP現在我們要做什麼然後全國台灣民眾要注意什麼那政府的作為是什麼"},{"start":523.248,"end":523.849,"text":"民眾想要知道因為軍演這個事情是很嚴重的問題"},{"start":542.225,"end":561.617,"text":"那您是我們國家的最高行政首長當對岸發布這樣訊息之後呢我們國人非常的緊張我們希望政府穩定民心告訴大家接下來我們要怎麼做或是我們什麼都不用做然後我們政府絕對會因應很好那政府的因應作為是什麼就是請你告訴大家嘛我們要掌握然後那我們因應作為是什麼"},{"start":569.782,"end":596.984,"text":"在國慶當中我們辦好國內的國慶我們的因應作為就是他發射他的導彈然後我們來辦我們的國慶這兩個不同的事情嘛他發射他導彈我也要吃飯啊我今天也來總質詢啊我們等一下該怎樣該怎樣這是一回事嘛我現在講是針對他發射導彈我們的因應作為是什麼我們的因應作為不是辦國慶國慶是本來我們就要做的事因應作為是什麼當天是國慶所以我們也一定提高我們的"},{"start":598.005,"end":617.064,"text":"各種在國防上安全的監控這個是一定的所以國訓之外的前後呢我們都有一直瞭解他所有的這個演練的過程但是我們也不希望對方瞭解知道我們瞭解多少我們有瞭解就對了啦我們之前就掌握他要發射這個中程導彈嗎當然不知道聽我講還知道的"},{"start":620.808,"end":621.268,"text":"發言委員．葉元之"},{"start":644.088,"end":670.449,"text":"也有可能是目前沒有因應作為 你要去開會討論也有可能那總統府會不會召開國安會議 你應該也不曉得嘛 對不對總統要不要召開國安會議 總統自會有他的判斷即使不召開形式上的國安會議 在國慶這一個階段當中對國家安全的回顧一定是提高緊急的好 那院長 那我就來問一個您可能會知道的東西的因為你禮拜五中午的時候要跟韓院長吃和解飯嘛 對不對"},{"start":672.564,"end":694.989,"text":"參訊參訊啦齁所以和解飯這三個字不是您講的齁我希望這是一張快樂的參訊那和解飯這三個字怎麼出現的媒體給我們媒體報的齁那這個參訊就是只是一場參訊嗎是我們希望能夠會不會那個和解飯吃完就是吃了一頓飯就是大家覺得那個雞湯很好喝院長跟我邀請的是三個黨團的好那院長你期待達到什麼效果"},{"start":695.749,"end":708.717,"text":"我們期待國家繼續往前走預算能夠互相瞭解因為剛剛我聽你跟廖謙祥的答詢你覺得現在卡在立法院不了解您的立場對不對"},{"start":711.11,"end":739,"text":"是嗎?你剛剛是認為都是立法院的錯嗎?你都認為是立法院的錯那在和解犯的時候你會這樣子教訓立法院嗎?說都是你們不了解我們吶還有立法院怎麼可以隨便通過法律呢叫我們來執行你們的預算呢你會這樣教訓像剛剛這樣子去教訓那個副總召還是教訓那個韓院長嗎?怎麼會用教訓?那你會用什麼方式跟他溝通?怎麼會用教訓?那會用什麼方式溝通?我們在"},{"start":740.765,"end":759.318,"text":"參與的前前後後跟中間我們都可以表達表達因為您的立場其實我們都非常了解但我覺得如果能夠預算能夠順利的正在實質上的去審查那將來對遺留下的問題那院長你會講到說哎呀治水預算一刻不能等所以你們總預算趕快復違你會講出這種話嗎"},{"start":762.329,"end":791.07,"text":"我心裡這麼想但是我認為我沒有想過現在的治水預算因為颱風風災所造成的一些災害要重建的治水預算不是早就在你的手裡了嗎這不是去年通過的嗎是今年度的對今年度嘛所以一顆不能等講的是明年是不是明年551億所以你跟大家講一顆不能等講的是明年是不是明年的預算一顆不能等那這樣啦院長一顆不能等以後治水預算都不要送來立法院了啦你直接行政院簽一簽馬上通過了啦"},{"start":791.852,"end":792.433,"text":"明年的總預算是審到幾月幾號?"},{"start":817.145,"end":826.079,"text":"明天總計算省到幾月幾號當然希望今年度能夠完成啊今年度是不是到12月31號對嘛所以現在你一直講一刻不能等好像是現在立刻要通過一樣"},{"start":827.427,"end":827.968,"text":"致水預算"},{"start":849.807,"end":875.344,"text":"今年治水預算早就在你手上了嘛現在大家省的是明年的嘛那你說一刻不能等好像現在就要通過一樣今年12月31號通過就可以嘛院長我跟你講既然啦要和解飯要吃飯大家不要吵架嘛你講出這種治水預算一刻不能等大家就生氣了這個吃飯達不到效果我只願我那個和解飯因為我沒辦法去吃啦我是建議說建議有些話不要講"},{"start":880.067,"end":881.469,"text":"我講的是明年度550億我覺得你講這個話也汙名化了原住民很多原住民朋友跟我講"},{"start":898.185,"end":919.335,"text":"現在搞得好像是原住民在擋治水預算但是我的原住民朋友啊他說這個淨寶補償條例從3萬到6萬這個東西這個不是恩己耶這不是福利耶這個是應該給原住民的補償耶要不然這樣子啊你讓他土地使用嘛讓他可以開發他賺到的錢絕對超過一年6萬塊"},{"start":920.555,"end":945.774,"text":"可是國家叫他不要開發因為水土保持那給他補償變成一種恩惠政府已經對你們很好了啦你不要吵啦包括那個原住民主委講說原住民的預算今年已經比去年多變了12%哇賽要原住民感恩戴德喔把他們當作什麼啊重點是這是補償這是正義這個不是恩己不是恩惠我希望原住民主委"},{"start":951.273,"end":956.71,"text":"謝謝葉委員謝謝卓院長下一位請"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:49:32.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:49:33.656000+08:00","text":"院長，麻煩請卓院長。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T09:49:33.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:49:33.796000+08:00","text":"請卓院長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:49:43.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:49:43.973000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:49:43.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:49:43.973000+08:00","text":"卓院長好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:49:45.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:50:07.878000+08:00","text":"我想先針對板橋有一個地方人士非常關心的都市計畫跟院長陳情，因為這個都市計畫已經拖非常久了，當初新北市政府第一次是102年送到內政部，後來因為退回公展，又整合地方意見，所以整合了8年，110年再送到內政部，這就是我們的浮洲都市計畫。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:50:09.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:50:23.493000+08:00","text":"110年送到內政部之後，內政部在111年2月開了第一次的都委會專案小組會議，因為覺得8年過了太久，所以又退回要新北市政府再次公展，再整合地方意見。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:50:23.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:50:33.879000+08:00","text":"新北市政府112年10月又報內政部，目前又開了兩次的專案小組會議，一次是在今年5月7號，另外一次是9月26號。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:50:34.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:50:43.725000+08:00","text":"我特別利用總質詢的時間跟院長講，是因為這個都市計畫真的很久了，也經歷了蔡總統時代、歷任行政院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:50:43.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:51:05.377000+08:00","text":"過去有行政院長跟內政部長到了我們那個地方，都被地方的里長問這個都市計畫，結果都答不出來，地方人士就覺得政府好像很不重視這個都市計畫，所以我今天特別利用這個機會當面跟院長報告，希望你也來關心這個案子，因為這個浮洲都市計畫對我們地方發展很重要。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:51:06.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:51:10.527000+08:00","text":"第一個，它有非常多的都市更新規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:51:10.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:51:25.130000+08:00","text":"第二個，它也幫助到泰板輕軌的興建，因為泰板輕軌的部分道路必須經過區段徵收取得，還有就是這個都市計畫一直沒有通過，導致地方有很多污水下水道也沒有辦法興建。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:51:25.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:51:35.114000+08:00","text":"當然這個都市計畫通過之後，對於中央社會住宅的興建，也有相關配合，因為會提撥5%的地，諸如此類還有安全的問題。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:51:36.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:51:43.586000+08:00","text":"我在這邊希望院長可以承諾，因為實在拖太久了，我們能不能設定一個階段性的目標？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:51:43.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:51:49.575000+08:00","text":"在明年中，讓這個專案小組可以送出、送到大會去，不知道可不可以？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:51:53.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:03.235000+08:00","text":"委員過去的努力，我確實不是真的了解，但我知道現在9月26號內政部正在召開都委會的專案小組會議，請部長來說明。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:03.235000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:05.056000+08:00","text":"跟委員補充一下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:05.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:06.458000+08:00","text":"今天為什麼我會在這邊提？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:07.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:11.021000+08:00","text":"因為拖太久了，所以每一次專案小組都在前情提要，你知道嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:11.021000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:13.645000+08:00","text":"請部長來說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:13.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:21.820000+08:00","text":"我先說明一下我的一些問題，因為每一次專案小組都在前情提要，都在說之前發生什麼、這個案子是怎樣，為什麼？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:21.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:41.406000+08:00","text":"因為實在拖太久了，所以這就浪費了非常多時間，然後每一次專案小組跟專案小組會議中間又隔非常久，你看上一次是5月7號，後來就排了9月26號，5月7號之前，新北市政府更是半年前就提報內政部，半年之後才安排專案小組，這都是浪費時間……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:41.406000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:42.907000+08:00","text":"應該不是這樣的程序……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:42.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:52:56.702000+08:00","text":"再來就是第一次專案小組所提出來的結論，我看到也是不太能接受，因為他叫新北市政府再提供一些路段排為區段徵收的原則到底是什麼？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:52:56.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:02.489000+08:00","text":"然後他叫新北市政府去調查浮洲當地的現況以及違章工廠使用情形。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:03.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:15.097000+08:00","text":"這些東西、這些資料早就有了，結果隔了這麼久開的專案小組會議還叫人家做早就在做的事情，把都市計畫的審議變成一種作文比賽，好像沒有很想要讓這個都市計畫通過。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:15.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:19.779000+08:00","text":"我在這邊請院長關心，請部長關心……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:19.779000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:21.400000+08:00","text":"我補充一下，好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:21.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:31.367000+08:00","text":"我還沒講完，請院長關心，請部長關心，這個拖很久了，這是我們地方的期待，趕快設定一個階段性的目標，我們希望明年中把它送出大會，然後每一次會的中間間隔短一點，不要一直前情回顧，也不要一直要求地方作文比賽，這是我們地方的期待。","quality":0.535},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:31.367000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:33.371444+08:00","text":"委員，不是這樣子。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:33.371444+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:35.375889+08:00","text":"我知道院長過去也做過立委，也是民意代表出身，我們都接地氣、懂民心，部長也是，不知道可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:35.375889+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:37.380333+08:00","text":"葉委員，我補充一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:37.380333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:39.384778+08:00","text":"第四次的會議在10月31號就要召開，所牽涉到的問題不是像你所講的作文比賽，而是因為有一些人陳案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:39.384778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:41.389222+08:00","text":"現在人陳案有227件、有56案的變更，這個部分就必須要新北市政府跟內政部一起來共同解決。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:41.389222+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:43.393667+08:00","text":"新北市的都有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:43.393667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:45.398111+08:00","text":"部長，因為你也不了解這個案子，你現在只是在唸資料而已。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:45.398111+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:47.402556+08:00","text":"我已經把我的訴求講了，院長可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:47.402556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:49.407000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，我要跟你講的是，這裡面跨你講的下水道的部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:49.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:49.667000+08:00","text":"院長可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:49.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:53:49.767000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:53:49.767000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:20.010000+08:00","text":"明年中我們設定一個階段性的目標。","quality":0.133},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:20.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:21.753000+08:00","text":"我們也沒有辦法……我們有階段性的目標在往前推動，沒有錯！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:21.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:22.174000+08:00","text":"盡量，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:22.174000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:27.820000+08:00","text":"你又不願意聽。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:27.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:31.423000+08:00","text":"你現在就唸資料而已，你沒有了解這個案子，你也沒去開會。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:31.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:34.465000+08:00","text":"但是你剛有提到污水下水道的部分，我也要跟你講污水下水道……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:34.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:36.846000+08:00","text":"污水下水道是因為要經過區段徵收。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:37.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:43.311000+08:00","text":"因為污水下水道要經過一些公有土地，那邊就卡住了，經過區段徵收、重劃之後就可以興建，問題在這裡。沒有。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:43.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:47.214000+08:00","text":"新北市政府在10月1號已經提送了這個設計報告。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:47.214000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:48.214000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:48.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:51.817000+08:00","text":"因為我還有其他議題，你在這邊唸資料，就等於有點浪費我的時間……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:51.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:53.939000+08:00","text":"沒有，我已經跟你講我們現在的實際進度。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:54.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:54:58.820000+08:00","text":"我們可以請內政部把這個開會的時間弄得緊密一點……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:54:58.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:07.962000+08:00","text":"把它縮短，然後希望在更換專案小組的學者專家之前，可以趕快送大會，不然就是要一直一直前情提要……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:07.962000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:08.962000+08:00","text":"一定要解決爭議，不是讓都委會完全……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:08.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:10.702000+08:00","text":"一直要告訴新的委員說，這個發生什麼事情，然後每一次……","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:11.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:14.603000+08:00","text":"希望新北市政府不要一案一案解決……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:14.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:17.184000+08:00","text":"不要插我的話，這個是都市計畫的案子，你也要插話，這又不是政治議題！","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:20.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:20.424000+08:00","text":"對不起、對不起！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:20.424000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:21.424000+08:00","text":"你是習慣性插話？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:21.424000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:22.424000+08:00","text":"對不起、對不起！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:20.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:23.365000+08:00","text":"部長，你真的很奇怪，我在講都市計畫，你也要插話。抱歉。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:23.365000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:27.080625+08:00","text":"院長，可不可以節制一下？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:27.080625+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:30.796250+08:00","text":"我從頭到尾都那麼客氣，你也要這樣？抱歉。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:30.796250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:34.511875+08:00","text":"大家保持互相尊重，好不好？好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:34.511875+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:38.227500+08:00","text":"委員，她是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:38.227500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:41.943125+08:00","text":"請你下去了，我要換下一個議題了。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:41.943125+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:45.658750+08:00","text":"她很積極向委員說明清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:45.658750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:49.374375+08:00","text":"不是，她講的都是唸資料，這我都知道，這跟我的訴求無關，我們希望反映地方意見，希望這趕快通過，不是說你拿人家給你的資料來唸，你上來之前，根本沒聽過這個都市計畫。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:49.374375+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:53.090000+08:00","text":"好啦，請你下去啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:53.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:55:53.970000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:55:53.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:05.976000+08:00","text":"院長，接下來我想跟你請教一下，剛剛國防部發布了一個非常重要的話題，就是10月10號的時候，中共要射火箭，這個事情你知道嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:05.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:06.356000+08:00","text":"他現在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:07.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:08.257000+08:00","text":"已經發布，國防部已經發布了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:09.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:11.078000+08:00","text":"這個很長一段階段，他都在臺灣的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:12.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:16.540000+08:00","text":"不是啦，我問你剛剛的事情，剛剛發布了啦，說已經要設火箭，會通過臺灣。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:16.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:19.690000+08:00","text":"我們希望……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:19.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:23.532000+08:00","text":"這可能是不是之前講的國安單位掌握的聯合利劍B？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:25.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:28.154000+08:00","text":"當時就已經說了可能會發射中程導彈。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:28.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:41.459000+08:00","text":"聯合利劍B，沒有錯，我希望他的演習是針對他自己所轄有效範圍內做他自己軍事的演練，對於這種妨害到區域安全、印太地區安全跟穩定的動作，希望中國能夠有所節制。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:42.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:45.020000+08:00","text":"你在這邊呼籲他節制，他就會節制嗎？不會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:45.020000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:46.020000+08:00","text":"不會嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:45.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:46.541000+08:00","text":"所以你的因應作為是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:47.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:49.548000+08:00","text":"我們做好自己的準備。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:49.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:56:49.828000+08:00","text":"什麼啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:56:50.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:00.892000+08:00","text":"就是所有的過程，我們要請軍方單位能夠詳細的了解，甚至監控、了解過程，不會對臺灣人民造成任何的威脅。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:00.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:05.134000+08:00","text":"院長，因為有關於中共聯合利劍B這個計畫已經講了兩、三天了啦！是。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:06.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:08.175000+08:00","text":"你現在是說要請國防部了解。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:08.175000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:09.175000+08:00","text":"一直有了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:09.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:11.356000+08:00","text":"就事先都沒有掌握狀況嘛！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:11.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:11.616000+08:00","text":"沒有，一直有了解。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:11.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:13.217000+08:00","text":"一直有了解，那你現在掌握的狀況是怎樣？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:14.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:17.371000+08:00","text":"很多事情我不便在這裡說。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:17.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:19.192000+08:00","text":"不便說，那我們的因應作為可以說嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:19.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:28.938000+08:00","text":"因應作為就是就以前、現在……不只是聯合利劍B，他過去有很多的演練，我們都持續在了解、有掌握，這一次當然是這樣……","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:28.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:29.879000+08:00","text":"院長，我現在是針對非常具體的問題在問你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:29.879000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:30.879000+08:00","text":"過幾天是我們的國慶，所有的防衛當然……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:29.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:31.820000+08:00","text":"我現在針對非常具體的問題在問你，那你告訴我SOP，現在我們要做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:31.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:32.961000+08:00","text":"然後全國臺灣民眾要注意什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:32.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:33.841000+08:00","text":"那政府的作為是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:33.841000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:35.327714+08:00","text":"你現在告訴大家嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:35.327714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:36.814429+08:00","text":"過幾天我們的國慶，我們還是以我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:36.814429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:38.301143+08:00","text":"過幾天？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:38.301143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:39.787857+08:00","text":"人家已經都要發布，我們還過幾天？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:39.787857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:41.274571+08:00","text":"我們還是以我們國內的國慶為主……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:41.274571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:42.761286+08:00","text":"反正他演他的，我們就辦我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:42.761286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:57:44.248000+08:00","text":"國安上面的問題，委員請放心。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:57:44.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:14.011000+08:00","text":"不是國安上面的問題，民眾想要知道，因為軍演這個事情是很嚴重的問題，您是我們國家的最高行政首長，當對岸發布這樣的訊息之後，我們國人非常的緊張，我們希望政府穩定民心，告訴大家接下來我們要怎麼做？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:14.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:19.615000+08:00","text":"或是我們什麼都不用做，然後我們政府絕對會因應很好，那政府的因應作為是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:19.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:20.815000+08:00","text":"就是請你告訴大家嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:20.815000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:21.815000+08:00","text":"國防部發布這個訊息就是向國人表達，我們對所有的狀況都掌握地非常清楚。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:21.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:22.617000+08:00","text":"我們有掌握，那我們的因應作為是什麼？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:30.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:33.043000+08:00","text":"我就是說，在國慶當中，我們辦好國內的國慶……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:33.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:38.028000+08:00","text":"我們的因應作為就是他發射他的導彈，然後我們來辦我們的國慶？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:38.028000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:39.028000+08:00","text":"軍方一定提高所有的安全……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:38.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:39.129000+08:00","text":"這兩個不同的事情嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:39.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:50.358000+08:00","text":"他發射他的導彈，我們也要吃飯啊，我今天也來總質詢啊，我們等一下該怎樣、該怎樣，這是一回事嘛，我現在講是針對他發射導彈，我們的因應作為是什麼？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:50.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:53.641000+08:00","text":"我們的因應作為不是辦國慶，國慶是本來我們就要做的事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:53.641000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:54.641000+08:00","text":"聽我講完啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:54.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:58:55.763000+08:00","text":"因應作為是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:58:55.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:01.708000+08:00","text":"我說當天是國慶，所以我們也一定提高我們各種在國防上安全的監控，這個是一定的。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:02.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:03.049000+08:00","text":"除了國慶之外的前後呢？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:03.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:11.358000+08:00","text":"我們都有一直了解他所有演練的過程，但是我們也不希望對方知道我們了解多少。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:12.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:13.760000+08:00","text":"所以院長，第一，我們有了解就對了？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:13.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:14.760000+08:00","text":"一直有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:14.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:16.663000+08:00","text":"我們之前就有掌握他要發射這個中程導彈嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:16.663000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:17.663000+08:00","text":"之前就有掌握？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:17.663000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:18.663000+08:00","text":"當然不知道，但是這個聯合利劍B……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:16.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:18.044000+08:00","text":"不知道，聽我講才知道的？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:18.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:19.345333+08:00","text":"不是、不是，聯合利劍B……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:19.345333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:20.646667+08:00","text":"那你什麼時候……我說發射火箭是聽我講才知道嘛？","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:20.646667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:21.948000+08:00","text":"因為你被綁在這裡，你都在上面……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:21.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:22.148000+08:00","text":"這個是聽委員……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:22.148000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:27.883000+08:00","text":"聽我講的，哇！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:27.883000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:33.618000+08:00","text":"我真的榮幸成為告訴你這個重要訊息的人，你說我們也有相關因應作為，只是不能說嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:33.618000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:39.353000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:39.353000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:45.088000+08:00","text":"我們也不希望對方知道我們了解多少。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:45.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:48.951000+08:00","text":"我們不希望對方知道，我想也問不出來啦，也有可能是目前沒有因應作為，你要去開會討論也有可能啦，或者是……","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:48.951000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:50.152000+08:00","text":"不會、不會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:50.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:54.055000+08:00","text":"那總統府會不會召開國安會議，你應該也不曉得，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:54.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:56.277000+08:00","text":"總統府要不要召開國安會議，總統自會有他的……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:57.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T09:59:59.039000+08:00","text":"他的判斷？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:59.039000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:00.039000+08:00","text":"判斷，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:00.039000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:01.039000+08:00","text":"好，OK。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T09:59:59.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:05.764000+08:00","text":"即使不召開形式上的國安會議，在國慶這一個階段當中，對國家安全的維護，一定是提高警覺。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:06.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:11.449000+08:00","text":"好，院長，那我就來問一個你可能會知道的問題，你禮拜五中午要跟韓院長吃和解飯，對不對？餐敘。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:13.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:13.564000+08:00","text":"餐敘啦！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:14.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:15.705000+08:00","text":"所以「和解飯」這三個字不是你講的？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:17.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:18.485000+08:00","text":"我希望這是一場快樂的餐敘。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:19.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:20.946000+08:00","text":"那「和解飯」這三個字怎麼出現？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:21.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:22.046000+08:00","text":"是媒體給我們的一個任務。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:22.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:22.486000+08:00","text":"媒體報的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:24.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:25.847000+08:00","text":"這個餐敘就只是一場餐敘嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:25.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:27.007000+08:00","text":"我們希望能夠……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:27.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:30.528000+08:00","text":"會不會和解飯吃完，就是吃了一頓飯，大家覺得那個雞湯很好喝？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:30.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:32.768000+08:00","text":"院長跟我邀請的是三個黨團的幹部。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:33.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:35.969000+08:00","text":"好，那院長期待達到什麼效果？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:36.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:44.054000+08:00","text":"我們期待國家繼續往前走，預算能夠互相了解之後……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:44.054000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:45.054000+08:00","text":"預算怎麼樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:45.054000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:46.054000+08:00","text":"預算能夠互相了解之後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:46.054000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:47.054000+08:00","text":"互相了解嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:44.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:52.110000+08:00","text":"剛剛我聽你跟廖先翔的答詢，你覺得現在是卡在立法院不了解您的立場，對不對？是嘛！","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:52.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:55.671000+08:00","text":"你剛剛認為都是立法院的錯……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:55.671000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:00:56.671000+08:00","text":"說過很多次了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:00:55.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:06.415000+08:00","text":"你認為都是立法院的錯，那在和解飯的時候，你會這樣教訓立法院說，都是你們不了解我們，還有立法院怎麼可以隨便通過法律，叫我們來執行你們的預算呢？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:06.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:14.358000+08:00","text":"你會像剛剛這樣子教訓傅總召，還是教訓韓院長嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:14.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:15.178000+08:00","text":"怎麼會用教訓？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:15.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:16.499000+08:00","text":"那你會用什麼方式跟他溝通？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:17.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:18.379000+08:00","text":"怎會用教訓兩個字？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:18.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:19.280000+08:00","text":"那你會用什麼方式溝通？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:19.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:24.187000+08:00","text":"我們在餐敘的前前後後跟中間，都可以表達我們的意見……","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:24.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:28.510000+08:00","text":"對，表達，其實您的立場我們都非常了解，但是我覺得……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:28.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:35.315000+08:00","text":"如果預算能夠順利、正常地實質審查，那將來對遺留下來的問題……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:35.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:40.038000+08:00","text":"那院長你會講說：哎呀，治水預算一刻不能等，所以你們總預算趕快付委。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:40.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:40.318000+08:00","text":"你會講出這種話嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:43.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:44.770000+08:00","text":"我心裡這麼想，但是我認為不會過……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:44.770000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:46.411000+08:00","text":"心裡這麼想？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:46.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:53.356000+08:00","text":"現在的治水預算，因為颱風風災造成的一些災害而需要重建的治水預算，不是早就在你的手裡了嗎？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:53.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:54.697000+08:00","text":"今年度的預算不是早就通過了嗎？","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:54.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:55.278000+08:00","text":"是今年度的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:55.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:56.378000+08:00","text":"對，今年度的嘛！所以……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:56.378000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:57.919000+08:00","text":"但明年還有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:57.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:01:58.680000+08:00","text":"所以院長講的是明年，是不是？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:01:58.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:00.361000+08:00","text":"明年551億……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:00.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:04.804000+08:00","text":"所以你跟大家講的一刻不能等，講的是明年的，是不是？明年……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:05.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:05.765000+08:00","text":"治水預算一刻不能等？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:06.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:11.950000+08:00","text":"這樣啦，院長，一刻不能等，以後治水預算都不要送來立法院，直接行政院簽一簽馬上通過，因為一刻不能等啊！","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:11.950000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:12.950000+08:00","text":"如果大家這樣要求，我也不一定敢這麼做啊！哇塞！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:12.950000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:13.950000+08:00","text":"民主國家的行政院長，居然會講出這種獨裁的話，我也是非常訝異！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:13.950000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:14.950000+08:00","text":"委員，你聽清楚，我是說你這麼說、大家這麼說，我們也不敢這麼做，我說我也不敢這麼做喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:14.950000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:15.950000+08:00","text":"院長，我問你啦！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:12.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:13.433000+08:00","text":"明年的總預算是審到幾月幾號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:13.433000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:21.870667+08:00","text":"委員，你要聽清楚，不要誤解我。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:21.870667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:30.308333+08:00","text":"我說你這個提議大院通過，我也不敢這麼做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:30.308333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:38.746000+08:00","text":"明年的總預算是審到幾月幾號？","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:38.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:39.066000+08:00","text":"明年總預算審到幾月幾號？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:39.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:40.809000+08:00","text":"當然希望今年度能夠完成。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:41.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:43.413000+08:00","text":"今年度是不是到12月31號，對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:44.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:47.079000+08:00","text":"所以你一直講一刻不能等，好像現在要立刻通過一樣。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:47.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:48.079000+08:00","text":"我說明年度的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:48.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:49.079000+08:00","text":"如果到12月30號，你跟大家講說明年的治水預算一刻不能等，請大家在這一天通過，我贊成，但是現在還有三個月時間，你說一刻不能等，我就覺得你這個是話術！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:49.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:50.079000+08:00","text":"委員，這裡是質詢……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:50.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:51.079000+08:00","text":"這個就是話術啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:51.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:52.079000+08:00","text":"在電視上這樣搶話，說明年度的治水預算……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:02:48.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:02:48.948000+08:00","text":"治水預算？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:10.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:19.273000+08:00","text":"今年的治水預算早就在你手上了，現在大家要審的是明年的，你說一刻不能等，好像現在就要通過一樣……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:19.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:19.493000+08:00","text":"今年是救急的……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:19.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:21.634000+08:00","text":"預算在今年12月31號通過就可以了嘛！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:21.634000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:22.634000+08:00","text":"現在是救急……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:22.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:34.043000+08:00","text":"院長，既然要和解、要吃飯，大家不要吵架，你講出這種治水預算一刻不能等的話，大家就生氣了，這個飯就達不到效果，因為那個和解飯……","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:34.043000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:35.043000+08:00","text":"委員，我再慎重講一次……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:34.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:35.083000+08:00","text":"因為我沒辦法去吃啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:35.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:36.344000+08:00","text":"我只是建議有些話不要講……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:36.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:38.705500+08:00","text":"明年度的治水預算551億……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:38.705500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:41.067000+08:00","text":"再來，剛剛廖先翔委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:41.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:41.528000+08:00","text":"不是，這樣永遠沒有辦法溝通，我講的是明年度551億……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:41.528000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:42.528000+08:00","text":"當然嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:42.528000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:43.528000+08:00","text":"我的意思是12月31號你講這個，大家可以接受，但現在10月你講這個，那就是話術了嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:41.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:03:42.469000+08:00","text":"再來，我覺得你講這個話也污名化了原住民，你知道很多原住民朋友跟我講，他們說：哇！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:03:59.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:01.426000+08:00","text":"現在搞得好像原住民在擋治水預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:04:02.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:13.051000+08:00","text":"我的原住民朋友說，禁伐補償條例從3萬到6萬並不是恩給，也不是福利，這是應該給原住民的補償。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:04:14.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:29.821000+08:00","text":"他說要不然這樣子，你讓他的土地可以使用，可以開發，他賺到的錢絕對超過一年6萬塊，可是國家叫他不要開發，因為要水土保持，那給他補償，變成是一種恩惠，好像政府已經對他們很好，他們不要吵啦！","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:04:30.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:36.226000+08:00","text":"包括那個原住民主委講的，原住民預算今年已經比去年多編了12%，哇塞！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:04:37.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:38.928000+08:00","text":"要原住民感恩戴德喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:04:39.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:40.449000+08:00","text":"把他們當作什麼啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-10-08T10:04:40.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:46.754000+08:00","text":"重點是這是補償、這是正義，這不是恩給、不是恩惠，希望原住民主委要比我懂得原住民，謝謝！","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T10:04:52.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:57.489000+08:00","text":"謝謝葉委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T10:04:57.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T10:04:57.710000+08:00","text":"下一位請黃仁委員質詢。","quality":0.4}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-08T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:49:01 - 10:04:58","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第3次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢）","gazette":{"lineno":188,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（9時49分）院長，麻煩請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：卓院長好。我想先針對板橋有一個地方人士非常關心的都市計畫跟院長陳情，因為這個都市計畫已經拖非常久了，當初新北市政府第一次是102年送到內政部，後來因為退回公展，又整合地方意見，所以整合了8年，110年再送到內政部，這就是我們的浮洲都市計畫。110年送到內政部之後，內政部在111年2月開了第一次的都委會專案小組會議，因為覺得8年過了太久，所以又退回要新北市政府再次公展，再整合地方意見。新北市政府112年10月又報內政部，目前又開了兩次的專案小組會議，一次是在今年5月7號，另外一次是9月26號。","我特別利用總質詢的時間跟院長講，是因為這個都市計畫真的很久了，也經歷了蔡總統時代、歷任行政院長。過去有行政院長跟內政部長到了我們那個地方，都被地方的里長問這個都市計畫，結果都答不出來，地方人士就覺得政府好像很不重視這個都市計畫，所以我今天特別利用這個機會當面跟院長報告，希望你也來關心這個案子，因為這個浮洲都市計畫對我們地方發展很重要。第一個，它有非常多的都市更新規劃。第二個，它也幫助到泰板輕軌的興建，因為泰板輕軌的部分道路必須經過區段徵收取得，還有就是這個都市計畫一直沒有通過，導致地方有很多污水下水道也沒有辦法興建。當然這個都市計畫通過之後，對於中央社會住宅的興建，也有相關配合，因為會提撥5%的地，諸如此類還有安全的問題。我在這邊希望院長可以承諾，因為實在拖太久了，我們能不能設定一個階段性的目標？在明年中，讓這個專案小組可以送出、送到大會去，不知道可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員過去的努力，我確實不是真的了解，但我知道現在9月26號內政部正在召開都委會的專案小組會議，請部長來說明。"],["劉部長世芳：跟委員補充一下……"],["葉委員元之：今天為什麼我會在這邊提？因為拖太久了，所以每一次專案小組都在前情提要，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長來說明。"],["葉委員元之：我先說明一下我的一些問題，因為每一次專案小組都在前情提要，都在說之前發生什麼、這個案子是怎樣，為什麼？因為實在拖太久了，所以這就浪費了非常多時間，然後每一次專案小組跟專案小組會議中間又隔非常久，你看上一次是5月7號，後來就排了9月26號，5月7號之前，新北市政府更是半年前就提報內政部，半年之後才安排專案小組，這都是浪費時間……"],["劉部長世芳：應該不是這樣的程序……"],["葉委員元之：再來就是第一次專案小組所提出來的結論，我看到也是不太能接受，因為他叫新北市政府再提供一些路段排為區段徵收的原則到底是什麼？然後他叫新北市政府去調查浮洲當地的現況以及違章工廠使用情形。這些東西、這些資料早就有了，結果隔了這麼久開的專案小組會議還叫人家做早就在做的事情，把都市計畫的審議變成一種作文比賽，好像沒有很想要讓這個都市計畫通過。我在這邊請院長關心，請部長關心……"],["劉部長世芳：我補充一下，好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：我還沒講完，請院長關心，請部長關心，這個拖很久了，這是我們地方的期待，趕快設定一個階段性的目標，我們希望明年中把它送出大會，然後每一次會的中間間隔短一點，不要一直前情回顧，也不要一直要求地方作文比賽，這是我們地方的期待。"],["劉部長世芳：委員，不是這樣子。"],["葉委員元之：我知道院長過去也做過立委，也是民意代表出身，我們都接地氣、懂民心，部長也是，不知道可以嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：葉委員，我補充一下。第四次的會議在10月31號就要召開，所牽涉到的問題不是像你所講的作文比賽，而是因為有一些人陳案。現在人陳案有227件、有56案的變更，這個部分就必須要新北市政府跟內政部一起來共同解決。"],["葉委員元之：新北市的都有！部長，因為你也不了解這個案子，你現在只是在唸資料而已。我已經把我的訴求講了，院長可以嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：沒有、沒有，我要跟你講的是，這裡面跨你講的下水道的部分……"],["葉委員元之：院長可以嗎？可以嗎？明年中我們設定一個階段性的目標。"],["劉部長世芳：我們也沒有辦法……我們有階段性的目標在往前推動，沒有錯！"],["葉委員元之：盡量，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：你又不願意聽。"],["葉委員元之：你現在就唸資料而已，你沒有了解這個案子，你也沒去開會。"],["劉部長世芳：但是你剛有提到污水下水道的部分，我也要跟你講污水下水道……"],["葉委員元之：污水下水道是因為要經過區段徵收。因為污水下水道要經過一些公有土地，那邊就卡住了，經過區段徵收、重劃之後就可以興建，問題在這裡。"],["劉部長世芳：沒有。新北市政府在10月1號已經提送了這個設計報告。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝部長。因為我還有其他議題，你在這邊唸資料，就等於有點浪費我的時間……"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，我已經跟你講我們現在的實際進度。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們可以請內政部把這個開會的時間弄得緊密一點……"],["葉委員元之：把它縮短，然後希望在更換專案小組的學者專家之前，可以趕快送大會，不然就是要一直一直前情提要……"],["劉部長世芳：一定要解決爭議，不是讓都委會完全……"],["葉委員元之：一直要告訴新的委員說，這個發生什麼事情，然後每一次……"],["劉部長世芳：希望新北市政府不要一案一案解決……"],["葉委員元之：不要插我的話，這個是都市計畫的案子，你也要插話，這又不是政治議題！"],["劉部長世芳：對不起、對不起！"],["葉委員元之：你是習慣性插話？"],["劉部長世芳：對不起、對不起！"],["葉委員元之：部長，你真的很奇怪，我在講都市計畫，你也要插話。"],["劉部長世芳：抱歉。"],["葉委員元之：院長，可不可以節制一下？我從頭到尾都那麼客氣，你也要這樣？"],["劉部長世芳：抱歉。"],["葉委員元之：大家保持互相尊重，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：好。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，她是……"],["葉委員元之：請你下去了，我要換下一個議題了。"],["卓院長榮泰：她很積極向委員說明清楚。"],["葉委員元之：不是，她講的都是唸資料，這我都知道，這跟我的訴求無關，我們希望反映地方意見，希望這趕快通過，不是說你拿人家給你的資料來唸，你上來之前，根本沒聽過這個都市計畫。好啦，請你下去啦！"],["劉部長世芳：好，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：院長，接下來我想跟你請教一下，剛剛國防部發布了一個非常重要的話題，就是10月10號的時候，中共要射火箭，這個事情你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：他現在……"],["葉委員元之：已經發布，國防部已經發布了。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個很長一段階段，他都在臺灣的……"],["葉委員元之：不是啦，我問你剛剛的事情，剛剛發布了啦，說已經要設火箭，會通過臺灣。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望……"],["葉委員元之：這可能是不是之前講的國安單位掌握的聯合利劍B？當時就已經說了可能會發射中程導彈。"],["卓院長榮泰：聯合利劍B，沒有錯，我希望他的演習是針對他自己所轄有效範圍內做他自己軍事的演練，對於這種妨害到區域安全、印太地區安全跟穩定的動作，希望中國能夠有所節制。"],["葉委員元之：你在這邊呼籲他節制，他就會節制嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["葉委員元之：不會嘛！所以你的因應作為是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們做好自己的準備。"],["葉委員元之：什麼啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是所有的過程，我們要請軍方單位能夠詳細的了解，甚至監控、了解過程，不會對臺灣人民造成任何的威脅。"],["葉委員元之：院長，因為有關於中共聯合利劍B這個計畫已經講了兩、三天了啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["葉委員元之：你現在是說要請國防部了解。"],["卓院長榮泰：一直有了解。"],["葉委員元之：就事先都沒有掌握狀況嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，一直有了解。"],["葉委員元之：一直有了解，那你現在掌握的狀況是怎樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：很多事情我不便在這裡說。"],["葉委員元之：不便說，那我們的因應作為可以說嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：因應作為就是就以前、現在……不只是聯合利劍B，他過去有很多的演練，我們都持續在了解、有掌握，這一次當然是這樣……"],["葉委員元之：院長，我現在是針對非常具體的問題在問你。"],["卓院長榮泰：過幾天是我們的國慶，所有的防衛當然……"],["葉委員元之：我現在針對非常具體的問題在問你，那你告訴我SOP，現在我們要做什麼？然後全國臺灣民眾要注意什麼？那政府的作為是什麼？你現在告訴大家嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：過幾天我們的國慶，我們還是以我們……"],["葉委員元之：過幾天？人家已經都要發布，我們還過幾天？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們還是以我們國內的國慶為主……"],["葉委員元之：反正他演他的，我們就辦我們……"],["卓院長榮泰：國安上面的問題，委員請放心。"],["葉委員元之：不是國安上面的問題，民眾想要知道，因為軍演這個事情是很嚴重的問題，您是我們國家的最高行政首長，當對岸發布這樣的訊息之後，我們國人非常的緊張，我們希望政府穩定民心，告訴大家接下來我們要怎麼做？或是我們什麼都不用做，然後我們政府絕對會因應很好，那政府的因應作為是什麼？就是請你告訴大家嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：國防部發布這個訊息就是向國人表達，我們對所有的狀況都掌握地非常清楚。"],["葉委員元之：我們有掌握，那我們的因應作為是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我就是說，在國慶當中，我們辦好國內的國慶……"],["葉委員元之：我們的因應作為就是他發射他的導彈，然後我們來辦我們的國慶？"],["卓院長榮泰：軍方一定提高所有的安全……"],["葉委員元之：這兩個不同的事情嘛！他發射他的導彈，我們也要吃飯啊，我今天也來總質詢啊，我們等一下該怎樣、該怎樣，這是一回事嘛，我現在講是針對他發射導彈，我們的因應作為是什麼？我們的因應作為不是辦國慶，國慶是本來我們就要做的事。"],["卓院長榮泰：聽我講完啊！"],["葉委員元之：因應作為是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我說當天是國慶，所以我們也一定提高我們各種在國防上安全的監控，這個是一定的。"],["葉委員元之：除了國慶之外的前後呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都有一直了解他所有演練的過程，但是我們也不希望對方知道我們了解多少。"],["葉委員元之：所以院長，第一，我們有了解就對了？"],["卓院長榮泰：一直有。"],["葉委員元之：我們之前就有掌握他要發射這個中程導彈嗎？之前就有掌握？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然不知道，但是這個聯合利劍B……"],["葉委員元之：不知道，聽我講才知道的？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是、不是，聯合利劍B……"],["葉委員元之：那你什麼時候……我說發射火箭是聽我講才知道嘛？因為你被綁在這裡，你都在上面……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是聽委員……"],["葉委員元之：聽我講的，哇！我真的榮幸成為告訴你這個重要訊息的人，你說我們也有相關因應作為，只是不能說嘛！是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也不希望對方知道我們了解多少。"],["葉委員元之：我們不希望對方知道，我想也問不出來啦，也有可能是目前沒有因應作為，你要去開會討論也有可能啦，或者是……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["葉委員元之：那總統府會不會召開國安會議，你應該也不曉得，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：總統府要不要召開國安會議，總統自會有他的……"],["葉委員元之：他的判斷？"],["卓院長榮泰：判斷，對。"],["葉委員元之：好，OK。"],["卓院長榮泰：即使不召開形式上的國安會議，在國慶這一個階段當中，對國家安全的維護，一定是提高警覺。"],["葉委員元之：好，院長，那我就來問一個你可能會知道的問題，你禮拜五中午要跟韓院長吃和解飯，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：餐敘。"],["葉委員元之：餐敘啦！所以「和解飯」這三個字不是你講的？"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望這是一場快樂的餐敘。"],["葉委員元之：那「和解飯」這三個字怎麼出現？"],["卓院長榮泰：是媒體給我們的一個任務。"],["葉委員元之：媒體報的。這個餐敘就只是一場餐敘嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望能夠……"],["葉委員元之：會不會和解飯吃完，就是吃了一頓飯，大家覺得那個雞湯很好喝？"],["卓院長榮泰：院長跟我邀請的是三個黨團的幹部。"],["葉委員元之：好，那院長期待達到什麼效果？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們期待國家繼續往前走，預算能夠互相了解之後……"],["葉委員元之：預算怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：預算能夠互相了解之後……"],["葉委員元之：互相了解嘛！剛剛我聽你跟廖先翔的答詢，你覺得現在是卡在立法院不了解您的立場，對不對？是嘛！你剛剛認為都是立法院的錯……"],["卓院長榮泰：說過很多次了。"],["葉委員元之：你認為都是立法院的錯，那在和解飯的時候，你會這樣教訓立法院說，都是你們不了解我們，還有立法院怎麼可以隨便通過法律，叫我們來執行你們的預算呢？你會像剛剛這樣子教訓傅總召，還是教訓韓院長嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：怎麼會用教訓？"],["葉委員元之：那你會用什麼方式跟他溝通？"],["卓院長榮泰：怎會用教訓兩個字？"],["葉委員元之：那你會用什麼方式溝通？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在餐敘的前前後後跟中間，都可以表達我們的意見……"],["葉委員元之：對，表達，其實您的立場我們都非常了解，但是我覺得……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果預算能夠順利、正常地實質審查，那將來對遺留下來的問題……"],["葉委員元之：那院長你會講說：哎呀，治水預算一刻不能等，所以你們總預算趕快付委。你會講出這種話嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我心裡這麼想，但是我認為不會過……"],["葉委員元之：心裡這麼想？現在的治水預算，因為颱風風災造成的一些災害而需要重建的治水預算，不是早就在你的手裡了嗎？今年度的預算不是早就通過了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是今年度的。"],["葉委員元之：對，今年度的嘛！所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：但明年還有……"],["葉委員元之：所以院長講的是明年，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：明年551億……"],["葉委員元之：所以你跟大家講的一刻不能等，講的是明年的，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：明年……"],["葉委員元之：治水預算一刻不能等？這樣啦，院長，一刻不能等，以後治水預算都不要送來立法院，直接行政院簽一簽馬上通過，因為一刻不能等啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果大家這樣要求，我也不一定敢這麼做啊！"],["葉委員元之：哇塞！民主國家的行政院長，居然會講出這種獨裁的話，我也是非常訝異！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你聽清楚，我是說你這麼說、大家這麼說，我們也不敢這麼做，我說我也不敢這麼做喔！"],["葉委員元之：院長，我問你啦！明年的總預算是審到幾月幾號？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你要聽清楚，不要誤解我。我說你這個提議大院通過，我也不敢這麼做。"],["葉委員元之：明年的總預算是審到幾月幾號？明年總預算審到幾月幾號？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然希望今年度能夠完成。"],["葉委員元之：今年度是不是到12月31號，對嘛！所以你一直講一刻不能等，好像現在要立刻通過一樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：我說明年度的……"],["葉委員元之：如果到12月30號，你跟大家講說明年的治水預算一刻不能等，請大家在這一天通過，我贊成，但是現在還有三個月時間，你說一刻不能等，我就覺得你這個是話術！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，這裡是質詢……"],["葉委員元之：這個就是話術啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：在電視上這樣搶話，說明年度的治水預算……"],["葉委員元之：治水預算？今年的治水預算早就在你手上了，現在大家要審的是明年的，你說一刻不能等，好像現在就要通過一樣……"],["卓院長榮泰：今年是救急的……"],["葉委員元之：預算在今年12月31號通過就可以了嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：現在是救急……"],["葉委員元之：院長，既然要和解、要吃飯，大家不要吵架，你講出這種治水預算一刻不能等的話，大家就生氣了，這個飯就達不到效果，因為那個和解飯……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我再慎重講一次……"],["葉委員元之：因為我沒辦法去吃啦！我只是建議有些話不要講……"],["卓院長榮泰：明年度的治水預算551億……"],["葉委員元之：再來，剛剛廖先翔委員……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，這樣永遠沒有辦法溝通，我講的是明年度551億……"],["葉委員元之：當然嘛！我的意思是12月31號你講這個，大家可以接受，但現在10月你講這個，那就是話術了嘛！","再來，我覺得你講這個話也污名化了原住民，你知道很多原住民朋友跟我講，他們說：哇！現在搞得好像原住民在擋治水預算。我的原住民朋友說，禁伐補償條例從3萬到6萬並不是恩給，也不是福利，這是應該給原住民的補償。他說要不然這樣子，你讓他的土地可以使用，可以開發，他賺到的錢絕對超過一年6萬塊，可是國家叫他不要開發，因為要水土保持，那給他補償，變成是一種恩惠，好像政府已經對他們很好，他們不要吵啦！包括那個原住民主委講的，原住民預算今年已經比去年多編了12%，哇塞！要原住民感恩戴德喔！把他們當作什麼啊！重點是這是補償、這是正義，這不是恩給、不是恩惠，希望原住民主委要比我懂得原住民，謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝葉委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請黃仁委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":187,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","麥玉珍","沈伯洋","廖先翔","葉元之","黃仁","牛煦庭","王育敏","王世堅","高金素梅","盧縣一","邱議瑩","吳沛憶","王美惠","馬文君","林岱樺","徐巧芯"],"page_start":107,"meetingDate":["2024-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137701_00007"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}