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院長您知道嗎來 院長您回答一下知道 當天都有看到報告"},{"start":78.325,"end":105.761,"text":"警政單位也做了必要的處分我們知道說他在西門町鬧事之後我們的移民署跟臺北市警局馬上就做處理也在當天的時候到軍樂飯店裡面把相關的書面文件提供給他請他要離開因為我們發現說他到臺灣來的目的跟他原來所申請的項目不符合"},{"start":106.281,"end":125.493,"text":"所以在當天的時候就臺北市警局還有移民署就做了處理第二天就請他回去中國我第二天就請他回去中國這樣算上來我們中華民國的臺灣有夠優先的也對人很客氣的這如果發生在中國的時候又不是這樣你有看到我們李明澤去到中國"},{"start":135.188,"end":137.513,"text":"你知不知道,他才用一個民權運動而已,還讓他們過五天"},{"start":143.015,"end":155.782,"text":"部長 院長 在這個 我覺得這個 輕輕鬆鬆說他們發生這樣來臺灣 這樣扯回去而已我相信未來會越來越嚴重當然他要來的時間可能我們不這麼簡單可以讓他來 因為已經住制了表示在臺灣做到議員來說的目的不一樣 我絕對要禁止他再來"},{"start":169.73,"end":174.112,"text":"他主席時﹐他要來時﹐他就是因為探親﹐他們若有在台灣﹐結果﹐沒理由若調查起來﹐他們若有設委﹐已經回到他們﹐祖國﹐的中國了"},{"start":190.04,"end":213.445,"text":"所以在這裏的審核是不是有帶有缺點的你看他們有沒有登記以來沒有住在台灣這塊土地他沒有住在台灣喔,中華民國喔但是他是11屆來到台灣的"},{"start":218.599,"end":228.004,"text":"結果他們來發聲的事是10月7日﹖他們若有回應他們祖國的信﹖是7月回應的啦"},{"start":229.612,"end":252.195,"text":"跟委員報告,我們現在對中國大陸人士來台的這個探親的這個簽證的核准的期間都是6個月專業人士也是6個月,商務人士也是6個月這個6個月就是說我發證給你這個6個月內有效您剛剛提到的很重要就是說"},{"start":253.296,"end":254.457,"text":"他申請的時候他母親在但是他來探親的時候母親不在"},{"start":272.702,"end":274.903,"text":"對啦 我覺得不是出境而已"},{"start":297.13,"end":309.14,"text":"因為他這個對台灣的應用很大的你看人們在那裡的飯碗中,他們兩個紅帽在那裡亂我也是在那裡批論,那這個規限在大陸那時候、中國那時候,那要整個頭髮洗什麼"},{"start":319.665,"end":341.3,"text":"委員我們是自由民主法治的國家我們不像中國大陸但是您提到的對於簽證核發的管理我們要加強包括用抽查等等機制這才是問題啦他要探親的時候是因為他老婆嘛我們的保證的時候他的中間他老婆已經回去我講幾次了啦已經回去他祖國啦"},{"start":345.043,"end":358.6,"text":"就等於他要申請來台灣的探親的條件已經不存在了所以你未來會讓我可以更正確的因為我覺得未來因為我們現在"},{"start":365.068,"end":367.129,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":388.035,"end":392.796,"text":"在這個規定當中 我也覺得這個打仗這個規定"},{"start":410.543,"end":430.58,"text":"院長有需要,要如何修法,我相信無分第一檔,無分你是北部的立委,還是南部的立委都為了這個打仗來發表,院長弟弟歡迎來賓,我們同過修法"},{"start":433.342,"end":445.989,"text":"你在5月10日的時候﹐你有說過什麼你敢問一件﹐這個打仗的問題﹐列在我們武打企業裡面﹐重要的打仗是要防衛的﹐要防衛﹐因為因為你有說到﹐想要拚的﹐也沒辦法拚﹐已經拚的﹐也會抓到"},{"start":458.456,"end":459.457,"text":"委員長 抱歉 院長抱歉"},{"start":485.765,"end":510.02,"text":"王委員回答一下7月底我們通過這個打詐新市法令對我們內政部經濟事務所負責的大部分都在第一算所以我們現在大量在做宣傳有關165的部分然後我們今天新公布的這個打詐儀表板9月份打詐的這個案件數跟財損數跟8月份比起來已經下降很多下降很多15%15%15%不對"},{"start":514.605,"end":514.805,"text":"王美惠議員"},{"start":533.551,"end":533.571,"text":"委員長"},{"start":563.154,"end":589.407,"text":"你這樣看就知道你會怕嗎當然會啦當然會嘛齁這個議票版就是要讓大家知道說現在這個情形在社會上很嚴重因為這個受理的表現跟過去我們說表現出來是不一樣的計算跟統計的措施啦現在我們有新的標準但是照這個標準轉來去打現在打詐釋法通過以後我們在法律我們有工具我們透過科技"},{"start":590.621,"end":599.085,"text":"我們透過跨國合作來偵辦 很多問題在走 但是我知道 事情要不會很好?事情要不會很好 本席跟你在這裡說 他剛才這段時間 本席剛才有15分鐘 一定說10分鐘在這個過程當中 本席15分鐘說完的時候"},{"start":615.342,"end":626.951,"text":"我們的詐騙集團﹐在75分鐘內﹐就騙獎金要450萬所以﹐院長﹐不怪本席若你說﹐說你會怕嗎?真的 我覺得 你說﹐跟部長都一樣的我們希望若受你做政客﹐剛才院長說的﹐是核詐"},{"start":641.857,"end":652.578,"text":"做不健康﹚現在做健康﹚還是以前的統計﹚不一樣﹚因為我覺得以前的款﹚"},{"start":653.729,"end":681.408,"text":"議員長"},{"start":682.265,"end":682.826,"text":"發言委員：王美惠"},{"start":700.689,"end":706.094,"text":"若陪禮內有10人﹖就是有10人﹖是不是普通?我現在是用這種新的統計方式本席再來請教﹖若想說長久不陪禮的錢"},{"start":718.325,"end":740.555,"text":"有過有過 這統計跟有一樣這就是報案的人 他們自己覺得他們都騙這麼多錢都列進去放在打債儀表板每一天公佈的數字但是你真正進入要刑案再辦的時候就會變成我們下面所說的公佈的數字所以不太一樣但是因為這個院長交代我們盡量把黑數把它消除掉"},{"start":741.015,"end":741.455,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":757.851,"end":772.525,"text":"王美惠是民運代表：因為北省所看好的：就是說我錢不便宜：不管你幾隻好：一百隻好：一千隻好：我最溫暖的就是我錢要怎樣：這才是重要"},{"start":780.152,"end":796.827,"text":"你說破案,破10件、100件﹖對王理事長、王法事長﹖這位老師、這位退休的人都沒有做問題你如果他的職業不便宜﹖最不可以拖一半回來﹖他一定會這樣"},{"start":798.388,"end":801.51,"text":"委員有兩種感 委員報告 第一項就是攔阻"},{"start":814.258,"end":827.263,"text":"有很多人要去ATM 或是要去銀行 要去指教詐騙集團的人 警察和銀行的人 會在那裡被封鎖 那就表示錢沒了不起 這是一種方式另外一種就是說你已經進入警察機關 或是法務部在進展過程當中 你要等到所有警察機構在後 你才可以要求說這件事可以退還給你 這些程序呢我們的法務部和其他相關的單位 都有一個執法在進行當中"},{"start":843.05,"end":857.236,"text":"委員 我知道實話當中﹝對﹞因為我覺得我們要有問題站出來我們要有辦法去改善 大家能夠做得好 讓他們走像你說的 騙得到也騙不到了 要留下來在這方面 我覺得大家的心 你們都要繼續加油在這方面 我跟議員勉勵一下 就是說"},{"start":873.002,"end":893.106,"text":"我們立法院也想很多個法案在我們最近為了人民的福利我相信部長跟院長跟在座的包括我們的院長、韓院長也好都很高興未來這個議程要怎麼去處理比較好因為我身為嘉義市我也要嘉義市"},{"start":901.447,"end":902.887,"text":"謝謝委員我一定要這樣做"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:38.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:46:40.382000+08:00","text":"主席，我們請院長跟部長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:40.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:46:40.783000+08:00","text":"麻煩卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:40.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:46:41.443000+08:00","text":"我們內政部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:41.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:46:43.264000+08:00","text":"麻煩內政部劉部長請備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:43.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:46:43.364000+08:00","text":"還有陸委會。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:43.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:46:43.724000+08:00","text":"王委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:43.724000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:46:44.724000+08:00","text":"請邱主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:43.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:46:44.525000+08:00","text":"院長你好，部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:46:59.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:47:35.689000+08:00","text":"本席在今天的質詢當中，第一點先來跟你們討論一下，10月1日有香港人在西門町舉辦活動，在這個活動中反對中國的國慶，不過不知道為什麼突然有一對夫妻來鬧事，尤其這對夫妻來自中國，這件事情，院長你們知道嗎？","quality":0.602},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:47:35.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:47:36.590000+08:00","text":"來，院長，你回答一下。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:47:37.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:47:39.111000+08:00","text":"知道，當天都有看相當多的報導。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:47:39.111000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:47:42.325000+08:00","text":"你知道嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:47:42.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:47:43.766000+08:00","text":"警政單位也做了必要的處分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:47:43.766000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:47:47.178000+08:00","text":"怎麼處分？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:47:47.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:47:50.590000+08:00","text":"我可以跟委員補充嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:47:50.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:48:15.865000+08:00","text":"我們知道他在西門町鬧事之後，移民署跟臺北市警局馬上就處理，也在當天到君悅飯店把相關的書面文件提供給他，請他離開，因為我們發現他到臺灣來的目的跟他原來申請的項目不符合，所以當天臺北市警局還有移民署就做了處理，第二天就請他回去中國。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:48:16.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:48:19.727000+08:00","text":"第二天就請他回去中國。是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:48:19.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:48:39.569000+08:00","text":"這樣算一算我們中華民國臺灣有夠友善的，也對人家很客氣，這如果發生在中國的話就不是這樣了，你有看到李明哲去中國，你知道嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:48:39.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:48:41.153000+08:00","text":"他只是用一個民權運動而已，就被他們關5年。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:48:47.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:48:52.898000+08:00","text":"部長、院長，我覺得這如果輕輕鬆鬆，他們來臺灣鬧只有這樣請他回去而已，我相信未來會愈來愈嚴重，尤其……","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:48:52.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:48:59.782000+08:00","text":"當然他以後要來的時間，可能我們沒有那麼簡單可以讓他來，因為已經註記了，表示他在臺灣做的跟他原來說的目的不一樣，我們絕對要禁止他再來臺灣。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:49:14.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:49:15.031000+08:00","text":"對，部長，註記的時候，他要來就是因為探親嘛！","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:49:15.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:49:15.431000+08:00","text":"他媽媽在臺灣嘛！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:49:15.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:49:40.981000+08:00","text":"結果沒想到調查起來，他媽媽7月已經回到他們的祖國中國了，所以部長，這當中我們的審核是不是有缺點呢？","quality":0.705},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:49:41.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:49:53.544000+08:00","text":"你看他媽媽長期以來沒有住在臺灣這塊土地，他沒有常常住在臺灣、中華民國喔！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:49:55.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:11.523000+08:00","text":"不過他是依親來到臺灣的，他們來了之後發生事情是在10月1號，他媽媽回去他們祖國的時候是7月回去的……","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:11.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:12.567500+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:12.567500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:13.612000+08:00","text":"你要回答嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:13.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:33.172000+08:00","text":"對，我跟委員報告，我們現在對中國大陸人士來臺探親的簽證核准期間都是六個月，專業人士也是六個月，商務人士也是六個月，這個六個月就是我發證給你，六個月內有效。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:34.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:36.175000+08:00","text":"您剛剛提到的很重要，就是他申請的時候父母親在……","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:36.175000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:37.296000+08:00","text":"是啊，我知道，但在這六個月的期間，你也要知道他的探親申請是因為他媽媽才要來探親的，不過他媽媽已經回去他們祖國了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:37.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:38.437000+08:00","text":"是，他申請的時候，他母親在，但是他來探親的時候，母親不在，所以……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:38.437000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:43.003250+08:00","text":"這才是問題，他要來探親的人已經不在臺灣，你們還可以讓他進來嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:43.003250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:47.569500+08:00","text":"就是與我們核准的許可目的不符合……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:47.569500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:52.135750+08:00","text":"這個問題你們要去瞭解、去管控啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:52.135750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:50:56.702000+08:00","text":"我們取消他的入臺許可跟入臺證，然後立即強制出境。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:50:56.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:51:32.959000+08:00","text":"對啦，我覺得不是出境而已，因為他這樣對臺灣的影響很大，你看人家在那邊辦活動，他們兩個夫妻在那邊鬧，我比喻一下，如果發生在大陸、在中國，那要關到頭髮長蝨母了耶！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:51:43.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:51:48.809000+08:00","text":"是，委員，我們是自由民主、法治的國家，我們不像中國大陸。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:51:48.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:51:55.473000+08:00","text":"但是您提到的對於簽證核發的管理，我們要加強，包括用抽查等等機制。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:51:55.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:51:56.534000+08:00","text":"這才是問題啦！是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:51:57.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:15.832000+08:00","text":"他要來探親是因為要看他媽媽嘛，在這半年期間他媽媽已經回去，我講好幾次了，已經回去他祖國了，就等於他要申請來臺灣探親的條件已經不存在了啦！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:16.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:21.779000+08:00","text":"所以你們未來核發要更正確一點啦。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:21.779000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:26.315571+08:00","text":"是，我們會再加強。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:26.315571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:30.852143+08:00","text":"因為我們現在沒有陸客嘛，就是讓他們用探親的條件來嘛，不能放鬆……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:30.852143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:35.388714+08:00","text":"是，我們會強化安全管理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:35.388714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:39.925286+08:00","text":"要嚴格去審核啦！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:39.925286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:44.461857+08:00","text":"請主委回去。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:44.461857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:48.998429+08:00","text":"再來，院長、部長，你有看到這個詐騙橫行，沒辦法擋了，就是橫著走，沒辦法擋了啦！","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:48.998429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:52:53.535000+08:00","text":"鄉親賺錢都白費了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:52:53.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:53:30.737000+08:00","text":"我覺得在打詐的這個過程中，院長需要考量要怎麼樣來修法，我相信不分哪個黨、不分你是北部的立委還是南部的立委，都為了打詐來打拚。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:53:31.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:53:41.744000+08:00","text":"院長，在立法院裡面我們通過四法，你在5月上任的時候，有關這個打詐的問題，你有說過什麼你還記得嗎？","quality":0.452},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:53:44.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:53:47.968000+08:00","text":"列在我們五打七安裡面，重要的打詐是要防衛的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:53:47.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:53:48.268000+08:00","text":"要防衛啦。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:53:48.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:53:49.969000+08:00","text":"因為院長你有提到，想要騙的也沒能力騙，已經騙的也會抓到，騙的錢也沒地方花。","quality":0.515},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:53:49.969000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:53:59.918000+08:00","text":"我要請教院長，你在上任時所宣示的，到目前為止，尤其在7月底我們的法案已經實施了，有什麼效果出來嗎？","quality":0.047},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:53:59.918000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:54:09.867000+08:00","text":"請院長還是部長回答一下。我先……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:54:09.867000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:54:19.816000+08:00","text":"我們現在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:54:19.816000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:54:29.765000+08:00","text":"院長，不好意思。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:54:29.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:54:52.439000+08:00","text":"我先跟王委員回答一下，7月底通過打詐新四法之後，我們內政部警政署所負責的大部分都在第一線，所以我們現在大量在宣傳有關165的部分，然後我們今天新公布的打詐儀錶板，9月份打詐的案件數跟財損數，跟8月份比起來已經下降很多。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:54:53.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:54:54+08:00","text":"下降很多？15%。15%？15%！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:54:54+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:54:56.946375+08:00","text":"部長，今天8號嘛，昨天6號嘛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:54:56.946375+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:54:59.892750+08:00","text":"昨天7號。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:54:59.892750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:02.839125+08:00","text":"昨天7號嘛，前天6號啦，這兩天你們救災跟質詢也很忙，你要來開會的時候有看到你們公布的資料嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:02.839125+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:05.785500+08:00","text":"有，「打詐儀錶板」是每天發布的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:05.785500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:08.731875+08:00","text":"對，每天發布嘛。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:08.731875+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:11.678250+08:00","text":"但是你繼續看第2頁、第3頁，那是一個月、一個月的統計，我剛才跟你報告的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:11.678250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:14.624625+08:00","text":"我就是要跟部長跟院長說，我看了嚇一跳耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:14.624625+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:17.571000+08:00","text":"6號統計被騙兩億多，6號喔，但昨天統計被騙五億多啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:17.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:50.135000+08:00","text":"院長，你看到這個會害怕嗎？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:50.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:50.516000+08:00","text":"當然會啦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:51.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:55:51.696000+08:00","text":"當然會嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:55:51.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:56:06.984000+08:00","text":"我們這個儀錶板就是要讓大家知道現在這個情形在社會上多嚴重，因為這個數字的呈現跟我們過去所顯示出來的是不一樣的計算與統計數字，現在有新的標準，然後照這個標準全力打詐。","quality":0.705},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:56:07.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:56:18.923000+08:00","text":"現在打詐四法通過以後，我們在法律方面有工具，我們透過科技來偵辦，我們透過跨國合作來偵辦，很多方法在執行，但是我知道成績還沒有很好！","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:56:18.923000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:56:19.923000+08:00","text":"成績還沒有很好啦！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:56:19.923000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:56:20.923000+08:00","text":"對，一定要再打拚、努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:56:20.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:56:41.684000+08:00","text":"院長，本席在這裡跟你說，從剛剛開始本席這段質詢時間有15分鐘，已經講了10分鐘，在這個過程當中，等本席15分鐘講完的時候，詐騙集團在這15分鐘內就騙了將近450萬！","quality":0.656},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:56:41.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:56:45.267000+08:00","text":"院長，所以本席要問你會怕嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:56:45.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:57:13.632000+08:00","text":"我認為你、我跟部長都一樣，我們都希望數字統計正確，如同剛剛院長說的，是以前統計不正確，現在統計正確，還是以前的統計方式不一樣？","quality":0.554},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:57:13.632000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:57:21.169000+08:00","text":"我覺得打詐新法通過後，所看的卻好像越來越多！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:57:21.169000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:57:28.706000+08:00","text":"院長，這要怎麼處理呢？","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:57:28.706000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:57:36.243000+08:00","text":"第一是統計的方式不一樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:57:36.243000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:57:43.780000+08:00","text":"統計的方式不一樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T14:57:43.780000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:57:51.317000+08:00","text":"計算的方式不一樣，但是我也相信現在的案件不會比過去少，因為太多事情透過各種方式都跑出來，現在就是透過這個法律來全力打詐！","quality":0.036},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:57:51.317000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:57:58.854000+08:00","text":"院長，以這個法律全力打詐，當中如同本席剛剛跟你說的，為什麼我們實施新法之後案件會愈來愈多？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:57:58.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:58:06.391000+08:00","text":"我聽到部長說不是這樣，是因為一個案件裡面如果騙了10個人就算是10件，部長，你們是不是這樣統計？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:58:06.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:58:08.292000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在是用這種新的統計方式，跟以前不一樣。","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:58:08.292000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:58:09.292000+08:00","text":"你們現在用這種新的統計方式？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:58:08.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:58:25.567000+08:00","text":"本席再來請教，像昨天統計被騙的錢有五億多，這個統計方式一樣嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:58:25.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:58:40.713000+08:00","text":"這就是報案的人自己覺得被騙這麼多錢，我們都列進去放在「打詐儀錶板」每一天公布數字，但是真正進入刑案偵辦的時候，就會變成我們下面所說的公布數字，所以不太一樣。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:58:40.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:58:44.535000+08:00","text":"這是院長交代的，我們儘量把黑數消除掉，讓大家覺得我們臺灣目前警政的重點在打詐，讓大家知道它的嚴重性！","quality":0.304},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:58:44.535000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:59:02.612000+08:00","text":"但是我們也看到很多第一線同仁的努力，現在9月跟8月比起來確實已經有下降百分之十五左右。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:59:02.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:59:16.505000+08:00","text":"院長、部長，本席是民意代表、是從基層出身的，百姓擔心的就是錢被騙了，不管總共幾件，100件也好，1,000件也好，他們最擔心的就是錢要怎麼討回來，這才是最重要的！是。是。","quality":0.379},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:59:24.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T14:59:33.100000+08:00","text":"你談到破案，就算破10件、100件，對歐吉桑、歐巴桑、這些老師、這些退休的人都沒有幫助！","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:59:33.100000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:59:36.429667+08:00","text":"當他的錢被騙了，就算只能討回一半，他一定對你們比大拇指，有感啦！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:59:36.429667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:59:39.759333+08:00","text":"不過到目前為止，院長、部長，很少錢能討回來，是不是這樣？","quality":0.087},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T14:59:39.759333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T14:59:43.089000+08:00","text":"部長、院長，要不要回答一下？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2024-10-08T14:59:43.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T15:00:11.243000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有兩種方法，第一項就是攔阻，很多人會去ATM或是銀行，把錢交給詐騙集團，警察跟銀行的人會先在那邊把他擋起來，那就表示沒賠錢，這是一種方式，另外一種是已經進入警察機關或是法務部偵查的過程當中，要等到所有偵查有結果以後，才可以要求把這些錢退還給你，這些程序法務部跟其他相關單位都有一個子法在進行當中，所以……","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T15:00:27.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T15:00:32.672000+08:00","text":"我知道是在子法當中，院長，我覺得我們要把問題提出來，我們才有辦法去改善，把打詐做得更好一點，讓他們會怕啦！","quality":0.617},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T15:00:33.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T15:00:35.734000+08:00","text":"就像你說的，騙得到也花不到，要把他抓起來啦！","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T15:00:36.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T15:00:38.635000+08:00","text":"我覺得打詐這部分，你我都要繼續加油。是。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2024-10-08T15:00:39.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T15:01:17.086000+08:00","text":"我跟院長勉勵一下，我們立法院也修了很多法案，最近為了人民的福利，我相信部長、院長跟在座的，包括韓院長也好，都很煩惱，未來這個預算要怎麼去處理比較好，因為我是為了嘉義市，我也要嘉義市的補助預算跟建設預算能夠早日投入嘉義市的建設，所以希望院長多費心，多跟所有的在野聯繫，可以趕快把預算處理好，早日完成所有地方的建設，以上。","quality":0.493},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-08T15:01:25.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-08T15:01:26.867000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員，我一定會這麼做。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T15:01:27.367000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T15:01:34.224143+08:00","text":"謝謝王美惠委員質詢，謝謝卓院長跟相關部會首長的備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T15:01:34.524143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T15:01:44.238429+08:00","text":"報告院會，現在在旁聽席上二樓貴賓室來自於美國國會助理訪問團，我們掌聲歡迎。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-08T15:01:44.538429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-08T15:01:48.824143+08:00","text":"接下來請登記第14號馬文君委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-08T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"14:46:24 - 15:01:52","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第3次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢）","gazette":{"lineno":114,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（14時46分）主席，我們請院長跟部長。"],["主席：麻煩卓院長備詢。"],["王委員美惠：我們內政部長。"],["主席：麻煩內政部劉部長請備詢。"],["王委員美惠：還有陸委會。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["王委員美惠：院長你好，部長好。本席在今天的質詢當中，第一點先來跟你們討論一下，10月1日有香港人在西門町舉辦活動，在這個活動中反對中國的國慶，不過不知道為什麼突然有一對夫妻來鬧事，尤其這對夫妻來自中國，這件事情，院長你們知道嗎？來，院長，你回答一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：知道，當天都有看相當多的報導。"],["王委員美惠：你知道嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：警政單位也做了必要的處分。"],["王委員美惠：怎麼處分？"],["劉部長世芳：我可以跟委員補充嗎？我們知道他在西門町鬧事之後，移民署跟臺北市警局馬上就處理，也在當天到君悅飯店把相關的書面文件提供給他，請他離開，因為我們發現他到臺灣來的目的跟他原來申請的項目不符合，所以當天臺北市警局還有移民署就做了處理，第二天就請他回去中國。"],["王委員美惠：第二天就請他回去中國。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["王委員美惠：這樣算一算我們中華民國臺灣有夠友善的，也對人家很客氣，這如果發生在中國的話就不是這樣了，你有看到李明哲去中國，你知道嗎？他只是用一個民權運動而已，就被他們關5年。部長、院長，我覺得這如果輕輕鬆鬆，他們來臺灣鬧只有這樣請他回去而已，我相信未來會愈來愈嚴重，尤其……"],["劉部長世芳：當然他以後要來的時間，可能我們沒有那麼簡單可以讓他來，因為已經註記了，表示他在臺灣做的跟他原來說的目的不一樣，我們絕對要禁止他再來臺灣。"],["王委員美惠：對，部長，註記的時候，他要來就是因為探親嘛！他媽媽在臺灣嘛！結果沒想到調查起來，他媽媽7月已經回到他們的祖國中國了，所以部長，這當中我們的審核是不是有缺點呢？你看他媽媽長期以來沒有住在臺灣這塊土地，他沒有常常住在臺灣、中華民國喔！不過他是依親來到臺灣的，他們來了之後發生事情是在10月1號，他媽媽回去他們祖國的時候是7月回去的……"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告……"],["王委員美惠：你要回答嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，我跟委員報告，我們現在對中國大陸人士來臺探親的簽證核准期間都是六個月，專業人士也是六個月，商務人士也是六個月，這個六個月就是我發證給你，六個月內有效。您剛剛提到的很重要，就是他申請的時候父母親在……"],["王委員美惠：是啊，我知道，但在這六個月的期間，你也要知道他的探親申請是因為他媽媽才要來探親的，不過他媽媽已經回去他們祖國了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，他申請的時候，他母親在，但是他來探親的時候，母親不在，所以……"],["王委員美惠：這才是問題，他要來探親的人已經不在臺灣，你們還可以讓他進來嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：就是與我們核准的許可目的不符合……"],["王委員美惠：這個問題你們要去瞭解、去管控啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們取消他的入臺許可跟入臺證，然後立即強制出境。"],["王委員美惠：對啦，我覺得不是出境而已，因為他這樣對臺灣的影響很大，你看人家在那邊辦活動，他們兩個夫妻在那邊鬧，我比喻一下，如果發生在大陸、在中國，那要關到頭髮長蝨母了耶！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，委員，我們是自由民主、法治的國家，我們不像中國大陸。但是您提到的對於簽證核發的管理，我們要加強，包括用抽查等等機制。"],["王委員美惠：這才是問題啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["王委員美惠：他要來探親是因為要看他媽媽嘛，在這半年期間他媽媽已經回去，我講好幾次了，已經回去他祖國了，就等於他要申請來臺灣探親的條件已經不存在了啦！所以你們未來核發要更正確一點啦。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們會再加強。"],["王委員美惠：因為我們現在沒有陸客嘛，就是讓他們用探親的條件來嘛，不能放鬆……"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們會強化安全管理。"],["王委員美惠：要嚴格去審核啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["王委員美惠：請主委回去。再來，院長、部長，你有看到這個詐騙橫行，沒辦法擋了，就是橫著走，沒辦法擋了啦！鄉親賺錢都白費了。我覺得在打詐的這個過程中，院長需要考量要怎麼樣來修法，我相信不分哪個黨、不分你是北部的立委還是南部的立委，都為了打詐來打拚。院長，在立法院裡面我們通過四法，你在5月上任的時候，有關這個打詐的問題，你有說過什麼你還記得嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：列在我們五打七安裡面，重要的打詐是要防衛的。"],["王委員美惠：要防衛啦。因為院長你有提到，想要騙的也沒能力騙，已經騙的也會抓到，騙的錢也沒地方花。我要請教院長，你在上任時所宣示的，到目前為止，尤其在7月底我們的法案已經實施了，有什麼效果出來嗎？請院長還是部長回答一下。"],["劉部長世芳：我先……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在……"],["劉部長世芳：院長，不好意思。我先跟王委員回答一下，7月底通過打詐新四法之後，我們內政部警政署所負責的大部分都在第一線，所以我們現在大量在宣傳有關165的部分，然後我們今天新公布的打詐儀錶板，9月份打詐的案件數跟財損數，跟8月份比起來已經下降很多。"],["王委員美惠：下降很多？"],["劉部長世芳：15%。"],["王委員美惠：15%？"],["劉部長世芳：15%！"],["王委員美惠：部長，今天8號嘛，昨天6號嘛。"],["劉部長世芳：昨天7號。"],["王委員美惠：昨天7號嘛，前天6號啦，這兩天你們救災跟質詢也很忙，你要來開會的時候有看到你們公布的資料嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：有，「打詐儀錶板」是每天發布的。"],["王委員美惠：對，每天發布嘛。"],["劉部長世芳：但是你繼續看第2頁、第3頁，那是一個月、一個月的統計，我剛才跟你報告的……"],["王委員美惠：我就是要跟部長跟院長說，我看了嚇一跳耶！6號統計被騙兩億多，6號喔，但昨天統計被騙五億多啦！院長，你看到這個會害怕嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然會啦。"],["王委員美惠：當然會嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們這個儀錶板就是要讓大家知道現在這個情形在社會上多嚴重，因為這個數字的呈現跟我們過去所顯示出來的是不一樣的計算與統計數字，現在有新的標準，然後照這個標準全力打詐。現在打詐四法通過以後，我們在法律方面有工具，我們透過科技來偵辦，我們透過跨國合作來偵辦，很多方法在執行，但是我知道成績還沒有很好！"],["王委員美惠：成績還沒有很好啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：對，一定要再打拚、努力。"],["王委員美惠：院長，本席在這裡跟你說，從剛剛開始本席這段質詢時間有15分鐘，已經講了10分鐘，在這個過程當中，等本席15分鐘講完的時候，詐騙集團在這15分鐘內就騙了將近450萬！院長，所以本席要問你會怕嗎？我認為你、我跟部長都一樣，我們都希望數字統計正確，如同剛剛院長說的，是以前統計不正確，現在統計正確，還是以前的統計方式不一樣？我覺得打詐新法通過後，所看的卻好像越來越多！院長，這要怎麼處理呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一是統計的方式不一樣。"],["王委員美惠：統計的方式不一樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：計算的方式不一樣，但是我也相信現在的案件不會比過去少，因為太多事情透過各種方式都跑出來，現在就是透過這個法律來全力打詐！"],["王委員美惠：院長，以這個法律全力打詐，當中如同本席剛剛跟你說的，為什麼我們實施新法之後案件會愈來愈多？我聽到部長說不是這樣，是因為一個案件裡面如果騙了10個人就算是10件，部長，你們是不是這樣統計？"],["劉部長世芳：對，我們現在是用這種新的統計方式，跟以前不一樣。"],["王委員美惠：你們現在用這種新的統計方式？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["王委員美惠：本席再來請教，像昨天統計被騙的錢有五億多，這個統計方式一樣嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：這就是報案的人自己覺得被騙這麼多錢，我們都列進去放在「打詐儀錶板」每一天公布數字，但是真正進入刑案偵辦的時候，就會變成我們下面所說的公布數字，所以不太一樣。這是院長交代的，我們儘量把黑數消除掉，讓大家覺得我們臺灣目前警政的重點在打詐，讓大家知道它的嚴重性！但是我們也看到很多第一線同仁的努力，現在9月跟8月比起來確實已經有下降百分之十五左右。"],["王委員美惠：院長、部長，本席是民意代表、是從基層出身的，百姓擔心的就是錢被騙了，不管總共幾件，100件也好，1,000件也好，他們最擔心的就是錢要怎麼討回來，這才是最重要的！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["王委員美惠：你談到破案，就算破10件、100件，對歐吉桑、歐巴桑、這些老師、這些退休的人都沒有幫助！當他的錢被騙了，就算只能討回一半，他一定對你們比大拇指，有感啦！不過到目前為止，院長、部長，很少錢能討回來，是不是這樣？部長、院長，要不要回答一下？"],["劉部長世芳：跟委員報告，有兩種方法，第一項就是攔阻，很多人會去ATM或是銀行，把錢交給詐騙集團，警察跟銀行的人會先在那邊把他擋起來，那就表示沒賠錢，這是一種方式，另外一種是已經進入警察機關或是法務部偵查的過程當中，要等到所有偵查有結果以後，才可以要求把這些錢退還給你，這些程序法務部跟其他相關單位都有一個子法在進行當中，所以……"],["王委員美惠：我知道是在子法當中，院長，我覺得我們要把問題提出來，我們才有辦法去改善，把打詐做得更好一點，讓他們會怕啦！就像你說的，騙得到也花不到，要把他抓起來啦！我覺得打詐這部分，你我都要繼續加油。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員美惠：我跟院長勉勵一下，我們立法院也修了很多法案，最近為了人民的福利，我相信部長、院長跟在座的，包括韓院長也好，都很煩惱，未來這個預算要怎麼去處理比較好，因為我是為了嘉義市，我也要嘉義市的補助預算跟建設預算能夠早日投入嘉義市的建設，所以希望院長多費心，多跟所有的在野聯繫，可以趕快把預算處理好，早日完成所有地方的建設，以上。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員，我一定會這麼做。"],["主席：謝謝王美惠委員質詢，謝謝卓院長跟相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在在旁聽席上二樓貴賓室來自於美國國會助理訪問團，我們掌聲歡迎。","接下來請登記第14號馬文君委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":188,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"本院民進黨黨團針對立法院第11屆第2會期第2次會議議事日程報告事項第3案委員翁曉玲等23人\n擬具「憲法訴訟法第三十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」、第4案委員翁曉玲等25人擬具「國家\n通訊傳播委員會組織法第十六條條文修正草案」案，院會所作決定，提出復議。是否有當，敬請\n公決─ 另定期處理─","agenda_id":"1137701_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}