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我們有請顏明慧主委好 請曾主委委員好 主委好 節哀節哀主委 上週主委應該是從帛琉回來 去參加國慶是上週 上上週"},{"start":21.428,"end":22.99,"text":"二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":36.288,"end":38.89,"text":"二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":63.239,"end":89.7,"text":"主委因為忍在國外參加活動：沒有辦法回來協助本席瞭解相信也很期待部會能夠到現場來協助本席在這個禮拜五會邀請相關的部會去災區來勘災我想這個攸關特別是在我們原住民地區的災或復原的工作這個部分主委請您務必來參加可以嗎?可以謝謝主委"},{"start":91.261,"end":109.416,"text":"OK 接下來我們要請教主委就是最近也吵得沸沸揚揚每次本席回到選區很多主委都會問我就是進發補助這一塊我相信主委應該也聽到很多這樣的聲音那陳英委員跟主任長在施政總實訓的時候討論到這個進發補償問題院長也公開的說行政院會負責的依照過去的承諾編列支補貼4萬元"},{"start":117.644,"end":122.922,"text":"所以原民會會必須去再做內部的調解嗎?這個意思就是說不足的部分你原民會要自己想辦法嗎?"},{"start":123.953,"end":150.986,"text":"那你作為原住民的大家長：我想主委應該要想好出國前就想好這個方法才對不過後來目前得知是要從原住民綜合發展基金來挪用那過去很多立委都提到原住民綜合發展基金長期以來短促的問題那如果再持續的撥補進法補償的話恐怕沒有多久基金就用完所以進法補償是經過三讀的法定預算"},{"start":152.216,"end":167.022,"text":"它是要補償主人的土地不能使用所以給的經費那原住民綜合發展基金是為了要促進我們原住民經濟發展要協助主人在發展經濟這一塊這兩個是不同的東西是不能拿來作為"},{"start":169.529,"end":171.009,"text":"補償的用途?對你們而言,什麼叫做臺語?"},{"start":198.479,"end":208.672,"text":"對我來講,台語就是講所謂的閩南語,就是講台語,我們都叫台語,也沒有在講閩南語,你們說台語,就是台語,就是台語,很自然客家委員會主委,你覺得什麼是台語?"},{"start":217.653,"end":238.983,"text":"在歷史上歷史風的演變還有牙齒目前失言在說台語、台語跟好老法、閩南語那是窮一種指向、窮一種語言謝謝兩位主委的回答其實這個問題很簡單也不用太緊張也不用太政治化去看它本是認為"},{"start":240.974,"end":262.018,"text":"臺語就是臺灣的語言像原住民語有那麽多種有百萬、有PUMA、有AMIS有那麽多的語言客家話也有很多我認為它都是屬於臺灣的語言喔台灣是個多元的社會臺灣是個多元共榮的社會我想不管是臺語、閩南語、客家語、原住民語都可以叫做臺語兩位主委是不是很懂這件事情"},{"start":264.253,"end":274.685,"text":"荷蘭法、學法、原住民法全部在臺灣的國家語言沒有問題的國家語言發展、國家語言法其實就是今天的TV提供所以余秀菲回答我嚇一跳我嚇到對不對"},{"start":283.816,"end":310.937,"text":"因為其實本席在擔任鄉長的時候其實曾經看到現場親歷過這個畫面是有鄉親跟原住民說阿你要講台語嗎?然後那個原住民非常生氣地說現在叫做台語?臺灣以前叫台語?我講的話也叫做台語才對所以我才會這樣問各位啦所以我想臺灣其實已經經過這麼多年族群融合的時候我想不只是我們講的民、男、婦叫做台語應該"},{"start":312.758,"end":338.196,"text":"所有這塊土地上的語言都能夠叫做臺語．所以也要請兩位主委．有時候真的要去爭取一下．要慎重考慮使用．不然是很容易造成族群的對立的那臺灣經過．我們在78年以來．經過長期的這個．族群上的．互相的競爭也好鬥爭也好．好不容易找到這一塊．不需要為語言來增加第二次的對立"},{"start":339.215,"end":367.247,"text":"那謝謝兩位主委那我想在這邊再請這個客會主委主委那個客會要落實在總統的這個客家六支箭有公共、國際、飲食、青年創生這是非常宏大的國家希望工程本席也看到客會做很多推廣客語的活動像你們的podcast然後還有在不同平台像IG、臉書甚至在兒童舞台舞台劇都做很多努力還有什麼客家大戲我這個台中鄉親非常喜歡"},{"start":368.627,"end":382.769,"text":"本席在6月13日 客會書面質詢時提到30歲以下 客語能力認證的通過率會達到6成主要原因是為什麼 客會的說明是說因為12到30歲 民眾在聽、說、讀、寫的能力約3成以下可能是因為12到30歲 仍處於語言學習階段以總體來說 30歲以下民眾聽、說的能力較為不足"},{"start":397.892,"end":399.152,"text":"二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":420.217,"end":425.318,"text":"主委主委是環境的關係嗎是不是沒錯主委其實本市覺得還有一個原因"},{"start":447.984,"end":450.166,"text":"二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":473.446,"end":495.921,"text":"目前能夠流利使用客語的人口大概集中在50歲以上的族群大概是93%那現在7、8是青年那很少很少我想真的能夠有這樣的客語背景真的不多那推廣的老師非常非常的重要所以在這邊是不是請主委跟相關的單位來從根本來解決失智的問題然後來推廣我們客家語"},{"start":497.844,"end":514.877,"text":"委員說的沒錯,我們認同提供合法真實的語言,形成實、形成就夠,我們就努力去增加它的量用方法,開放方法,我們就用方法謝謝主委,主委到本期最後再跟兩位主委再次說明,台灣是一個台灣的正社會"},{"start":517.847,"end":533.688,"text":"本席是閩南人我的太太是阿美族我的大嫂是客家人所以在這個大家庭裡面每個人講的話這塊土地上的語言都是屬於台灣的語言那謝謝兩位主委那也謝謝主席感謝 感謝委員好 謝謝黃建斌"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:21:42 - 10:30:36","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":574,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（10時21分）謝謝主席，我們有請原民會主委。"],["主席：好，請曾主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：主委你好。"],["曾主任委員智勇：你好。"],["黃委員建賓：上週主委應該是從帛琉回來嘛？去參加國慶，是不是上週？上上週？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，是上週回來的。"],["黃委員建賓：剛好在你去參加國慶的期間，我們遇到了山陀兒颱風，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["黃委員建賓：本席記得同行的，臺東縣的8位鄉鎮長也有一起參加，然後也連夜趕回臺東來協助這個守護家園的工作。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["黃委員建賓：很不幸，這次颱風過後，確實有3個鄉鎮因為這次的山陀兒颱風受到受創，一個就是卑南鄉，一個是金峰鄉，另外一個是臺東的太麻里鄉。其中太麻里跟金峰有50%都是排灣族群的原住民鄉鎮是不是？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["黃委員建賓：主委，因為人在國外參加活動沒有辦法回來協助，這個本席瞭解，不過，鄉親真的也很期待部會能夠到現場來協助，本席在這個禮拜五會邀請相關的部會去災區勘災。我想這個特別攸關我們原住民地區的災後復原工作，這個部分請主委務必來參加，可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝。"],["黃委員建賓：OK，接下來我們要請教主委的就是最近吵得沸沸揚揚的，每次本席回到選區，很多族人都會問我禁伐補償這一塊，我想主委應該也聽到很多這樣的聲音。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["黃委員建賓：陳瑩委員跟卓院長在施政總質詢的時候有討論到這個禁伐補償的問題，院長也公開說，行政院會負責地依照過去的承諾編列補貼至4萬元，所以原民會必須再去做內部的調節。這個意思就是說，不足的部分原民會要自己想辦法嘛！你作為原住民的大家長，我想主委出國前就應該要想好這個方法才對，不過後來得知這要從原住民綜合發展基金來挪用。","過去很多立委都提到原住民綜合發展基金長期以來短絀的問題，如果再持續撥補禁伐補償的話，恐怕沒有多久基金就用完了。主委，禁伐補償是經過三讀的法定預算，它是要補償族人不能使用土地所給的經費。原住民綜合發展基金是為了要促進我們原住民經濟發展，是要協助族人發展經濟這一塊，這兩個是不同的東西，是不能拿來作為補償用途的，所以這邊本席強烈建議主委，應該要持續地向中央爭取，這個部分我想請主委再努力看看。","我想今天原民會主委跟客委會主委同時都在場，我想要請教兩位主委，請原民會主委先回答，對你們而言什麼叫做台語？原民會主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：對我來講，台語就是講所謂的閩南語，就是講台語，我們都叫台語，也沒有在講閩南語，你們講的台語就是台語，這樣而已，很自然啦！"],["黃委員建賓：客委會主委，你覺得什麼是台語？"],["古主任委員秀妃：在歷史上的演變還有目前自然的使用，台語還有Holo話、閩南語是同一種語言。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝兩位主委的回答，其實這個問題很簡單，也不用太緊張，也不用太政治化去看它，本席認為台語就是臺灣的語言，就像原住民語有那麼多種，有Paiwan、有Puyuma、有Amis，有那麼多的語言，客家話也有很多，我認為它都是屬於臺灣的語言，臺灣是一個多元的社會，臺灣是個多元共榮的社會，我想不管是台語、閩南語、客家語、原住民語都可以叫做台語，兩位主委是不是認同這件事情？"],["古主任委員秀妃：就是Holo話、客語、原住民語，全部是臺灣的國家語言，這是沒問題的，都在國家語言發展法當中，就是地位提高。"],["黃委員建賓：所以原委會主委你剛才回答我嚇一跳，我嚇到，因為本席在擔任鄉長的時候，其實曾經看到、現場親歷過這個畫面，有鄉親跟原住民說你會講台語嗎？然後那個原住民非常生氣，他說什麼叫台語？臺灣語言叫台語，他講的話也叫做台語才對，所以我才會這樣問各位。臺灣其實經過這麼多年族群融合之後，我想不只是我們說的閩南語叫做台語，應該所有這塊土地上的語言都能夠叫做台語，所以也要請兩位主委，有時候真的要去徵詢一下，要慎重考慮使用，不然其實很容易造成族群的對立。臺灣這四百多年來，經過長期族群上的互相競爭也好、鬥爭也好，好不容易走到這一塊，不需要為語言來增加第二次的對立，謝謝兩位主委。","我想再請教一下客委會主委，主委，客委會要落實賴總統的客家六支箭，有公共、國際、飲食、青年、創生，這是非常宏大的國家希望工程，本席也看到客委會做很多推廣客語的活動，像你們的Podcast，然後還有在不同的平台，像IG、臉書，甚至在兒童舞台、舞台劇都做很多努力，還有什麼？客家大戲，這個臺東鄉親非常喜歡。本席在6月13號對客委會書面質詢的時候有提到，30歲以下客語能力認證的通過率未達到六成，主要原因是為什麼？客委會的說明是說12到30歲民眾在聽說的能力約3成以下，那可能是因為12到30歲仍處於語言學習階段。以總體來說，30歲以下民眾聽說的能力較為不足，客委會因應的方式是沉浸式的教學，另外就結合12年國教再訂定一些課程，像我們苗栗縣和高雄市都有辦雙語的實驗小學，我覺得這很好，不過為什麼客語到現在推廣還是會遇到困境，最主要原因是什麼？主委。"],["古主任委員秀妃：因為現在大部分的人從小開始就是習慣用華語，華語環境太強、太大了，客語使用越來越少，為什麼30歲以下的人不會講？因為大人沒有講，所以是大人的語言意識並不強烈……"],["黃委員建賓：主委，所以是環境的關係，是不是？"],["古主任委員秀妃：沒有錯。"],["黃委員建賓：主委，其實本席覺得還有一個原因，像臺東有將近4萬人的客語族群，我們的不管是正式老師也好或是客語的薪傳師，人數其實都不夠。主委知道嗎？全臺東縣今年4萬的人口，只有十餘名的老師願意開班授課，師資不足的情況下你很難推廣。目前能夠流利使用客語的人口大概集中在50歲以上的族群，大概是93%，剩下7%是青年，很少，我想能夠有這樣的客語背景真的不多，推廣的老師非常非常重要，所以在這邊是不是請主委跟相關單位從根本解決師資的問題，然後來推廣我們客家語？"],["古主任委員秀妃：委員說得沒錯，我非常認同，推廣客語真的需要薪傳師、老師們的教導，這是我們努力的目標，看用什麼方法來增加師資的量。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主委，本席最後再跟兩位主委再次說明，臺灣是一個多元的小社會，本席是閩南人，我的太太是阿美族，我的大嫂是客家人，所以在這個大家庭裡面，每個人講的話、這塊土地上的語言都是屬於臺灣的語言，謝謝兩位主委，也謝謝主席。"],["古主任委員秀妃：感謝，感謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃建賓委員。","接下來請張宏陸召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","speakers":["徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","張智倫","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","林倩綺","吳琪銘","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅智強","涂權吉","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","黃國昌","呂玉玲","蘇清泉","丁學忠","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育\n部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正\n「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}