{"error":false,"id":["155294"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":155294,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155294","日期":"2024-10-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-19-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-10-09T10:28:06+08:00","結束時間":"2024-10-09T10:38:24+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:18","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"委員名稱":"陳亭妃","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f44693e142c0600a75557f57e3771a97b46d19fd1690e0d4f248570de51b9a93ee1ded52cbdf85935ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.333468750000002,"end":10.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.03346875,"end":12.535343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.42909375,"end":17.867843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.59346875,"end":23.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.48721875,"end":25.664093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.204093750000002,"end":29.579093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.23721875,"end":47.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.78721875,"end":58.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.734718750000006,"end":64.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.21534375,"end":62.687843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.76346875,"end":74.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.99971875,"end":65.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.65284375,"end":71.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.65221875,"end":75.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.93471875,"end":76.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.35659375,"end":81.30096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.33471875000001,"end":90.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.68346875,"end":92.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.58596875,"end":98.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.88034375000001,"end":106.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.37721875000001,"end":108.92534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.38096875000001,"end":113.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.55346875000001,"end":115.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.66721875,"end":114.15659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.47721875,"end":114.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.74284375,"end":115.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.79346875,"end":118.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.51034375,"end":135.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.03096875,"end":138.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.33846875,"end":138.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.77721875,"end":138.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.21596875,"end":143.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.86971875,"end":141.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.17721875,"end":149.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.66159375,"end":151.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.56409375,"end":155.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.15846875,"end":162.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.92534375,"end":166.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.49471875,"end":164.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.33409375000002,"end":166.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.31284375,"end":171.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.70034375,"end":175.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.04159375,"end":175.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.20596875,"end":178.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.04096875000002,"end":181.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.10846875000001,"end":179.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.85471875000002,"end":183.61409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.93909375,"end":184.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.03159375,"end":185.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.06534375,"end":186.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.08221875,"end":186.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.63471875000002,"end":188.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.91721875000002,"end":189.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.09846875000002,"end":194.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.27909375000002,"end":197.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.49846875,"end":194.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.62909375,"end":196.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.31659375,"end":198.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.29534375,"end":198.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.34596875000003,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.46409375000002,"end":199.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.96596875,"end":200.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.78409375,"end":203.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.11721875,"end":204.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.21846875,"end":204.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.26909375000002,"end":204.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.58971875,"end":204.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.85534375,"end":207.18846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.64409375000002,"end":209.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.36096875,"end":210.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.39471875,"end":211.40721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.40721875000003,"end":212.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.80346875,"end":215.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.58784375000002,"end":232.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.63596875000002,"end":236.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.93096875,"end":235.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.29346875000002,"end":238.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.14971875,"end":239.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.01034375,"end":241.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.96784375000001,"end":243.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.84096875,"end":247.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.51159375,"end":245.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.72659375,"end":247.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.85721875000002,"end":248.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.78096875000003,"end":251.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.35034375,"end":252.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.69596875000002,"end":260.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.54284375000003,"end":262.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.65659375,"end":264.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.71534375000005,"end":266.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.02284375,"end":273.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.49034375,"end":278.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.36721875,"end":278.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.63284375,"end":280.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.11784375,"end":283.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.73346875000004,"end":284.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.53909375,"end":286.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.49659375000005,"end":292.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.64346875,"end":293.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.80784375,"end":307.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.50596875,"end":309.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.91096875,"end":313.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.65284375000005,"end":315.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.01534375,"end":318.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.67721875,"end":322.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.81596875,"end":327.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.01346875,"end":342.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.40909375,"end":335.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.28971875,"end":343.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.85909375,"end":345.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.34846875,"end":345.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.49596875000003,"end":347.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.84159375,"end":351.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.15346875,"end":351.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.65534375000004,"end":353.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.76909375,"end":354.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.60846875000004,"end":355.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.01346875,"end":358.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.25346875,"end":359.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.46846875,"end":367.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.77596875,"end":363.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.90596875,"end":390.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.52534375000005,"end":374.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.47721875,"end":384.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.26096875,"end":392.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.86409375000005,"end":393.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.53909375,"end":395.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.36159375,"end":395.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.41221875,"end":395.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.90159375,"end":397.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.02784375000005,"end":404.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.36846875000003,"end":408.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.69284375,"end":408.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.38471875000005,"end":412.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.57409375000003,"end":415.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.45534375000005,"end":419.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.52221875000004,"end":422.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.10409375,"end":424.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.65221875000003,"end":427.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.42409375000005,"end":430.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.60909375,"end":433.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.15721875,"end":436.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.77284375000005,"end":438.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.69659375000003,"end":441.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.03784375000004,"end":452.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.50034375,"end":454.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.13284375,"end":456.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.60096875000005,"end":458.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.22909375,"end":461.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.03471875,"end":468.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.51096875,"end":465.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.20659375,"end":483.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.59409375,"end":473.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.51659375,"end":484.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.72721875,"end":493.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.84846875000005,"end":493.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.13096875,"end":495.70034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.25721875000005,"end":512.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.43596875,"end":514.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.9209687499999,"end":521.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.3503437500001,"end":523.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.5147187499999,"end":534.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.57784375,"end":524.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.23159375,"end":529.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.96909375,"end":532.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.36534375,"end":534.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.2765937500001,"end":538.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.35659375,"end":535.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.48721875,"end":537.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.3772187500001,"end":540.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.12784375,"end":549.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.50721875,"end":544.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.3415937500001,"end":553.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.09659375,"end":553.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.3115937499999,"end":573.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.35346875,"end":556.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.26034375,"end":557.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.43721875,"end":560.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.90096875,"end":562.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.31409375,"end":565.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.55409375,"end":568.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.65909375,"end":570.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.3884687500001,"end":576.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.00846875,"end":581.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.70034375,"end":579.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.7334687499999,"end":588.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.38659375,"end":588.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.78284375,"end":591.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.50409375,"end":594.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.0815937500001,"end":594.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.3134687500001,"end":600.1397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.4397187500001,"end":601.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.43909375,"end":601.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.84409375,"end":601.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.9622187500001,"end":601.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.28284375,"end":604.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.45159375,"end":603.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.3584687499999,"end":604.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.84784375,"end":609.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.8684687500001,"end":608.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.5009687500001,"end":613.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.02409375,"end":612.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.7747187500001,"end":617.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.99409375,"end":615.81659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.606,"end":18.673,"text":"請陳亭妃委員謝謝主席我們請部長請農業部陳部長部長好部長我想在這一次開明颱風之後我們發現了一個問題"},{"start":26.26,"end":46.078,"text":"因為這次開明颱風其實是全面性的所以我們在整個農災的部分很快就核准 漁災的部分也是甚至是畜牧的部分都是在當下然後連續三天就馬上公布可是現在發現一個問題"},{"start":48.339,"end":75.431,"text":"當像凱米這樣的一個全面自災有一個部分我們是沒有辦法去做任何的一個協助的就是我們產業設備產業設備這才是嚴重像凱米這個是瞬間尤其又遇到了像我們巴掌溪的一個這個堤防然後對然後破洞潰堤的狀態那根本擋不了"},{"start":77.192,"end":91.866,"text":"在產業的部分設備上是有問題的是沒有辦法去做任何協助他們去做賠償也好然後做復工那這部分到底我們從這一次凱米颱風我們有什麼樣的檢討嗎"},{"start":100.132,"end":117.689,"text":"我跟委員說明我現在也要求我們的同仁開始再重新去檢視天然栽培救助的辦法那第一個部分就是救助的品項它的金額的部分我們會重新去做這個我要跟部長也是要跟你談的第二個部分第二個部分就是說"},{"start":118.69,"end":143.124,"text":"沒有錯,我們現在看到的因為現在天然災害救助辦法裡面的規範都是直接的損失對於間接的損失是沒有納入的那沒有納入的話我們可以用輔導的周圍去做那也可以直接看看有沒有機會直接放在天然災害救助裡面其實你們現在都用所謂低利率來協助可是我告訴你那個整個就是"},{"start":144.225,"end":151.457,"text":"一片狼藉你要怎麼去協助他他也不知道要如何開始你地利率給他也沒有用"},{"start":152.665,"end":177.497,"text":"所以其實我們要講的是當我們要協助他來做任何災後回復的動作其實有時候在產業這個設備的部分才是一個重要所以我覺得這個部分要重新檢討另外一個就是我在這當中也跟部長通過電話就像部長剛才說的你要檢討我們的品項多久沒有檢討了"},{"start":183.141,"end":200.89,"text":"部長,多久沒檢討了?施牧魚沒有,滾動在檢討農糧的部分魚的部分很抱歉,魚的部分我覺得有一段時間了啦多久了,你先講多久你就知道說難怪那個誤差那麼大上次什麼時候?多久?應該有兩三年了兩三年了,不只吧?"},{"start":211.167,"end":231.911,"text":"還有我們的畜牧呢?我們今年8月6號的時候有重新提出來開始去做檢討那上一次檢討我承認畜牧跟養殖漁業的部分是很久了但是農糧的部分那時候我們都有定期的滾動檢討我們希望這個滾動檢討非常重要"},{"start":237.369,"end":266.396,"text":"我們農 漁 畜牧的品項都要滾動檢討隨時滾動檢討我們的物價波動那麼快在這一次我們看到那個資料當我們公布之後全面摘損然後公布哇我們看到那個品項的單價怎麼差那麼多所以全部的畜牧業養殖業全部跳腳"},{"start":268.083,"end":290.21,"text":"那全部踢到腳之後跟部長回覆的時候沒辦法因為公告了只能下次再拿出來做總體檢好部長8月6號你們已經提出來了那請問多久然後裡面一定要設一個叫滾動式檢討的標準"},{"start":293.892,"end":318.342,"text":"因為你沒有滾動式檢討有可能我們看到的農漁然後畜牧你沒有定期滾動式檢討有可能又兩三年後那個物價指數一飛又不知道要飛到哪裡去了部長可不可以我基本上的看法是這樣子過往我們的農漁畜都是各自處理那被關心到的就處理比較快一點"},{"start":319.721,"end":319.961,"text":"﹚陳亭妃﹚陳亭妃"},{"start":344.451,"end":357.939,"text":"部長我覺得你講的這些原則你們要在你們的辦法裡面我們會明定要明定你沒有明定有可能部長你今天這麼說可是下面的人不一定會這麼認為"},{"start":359.56,"end":378.962,"text":"那每一次我們都要去麻煩部長我們也會不好意思啊我們認為這個部分就是SOP該怎麼走就怎麼做而不是每一次我們都要麻煩到部長然後部長交代然後他們才拿出來檢討而是我們在訓期前就像部長所說的訓期前我們就拿出來檢討"},{"start":380.063,"end":382.565,"text":"所以每次都先罵中央我覺得這非常不公平"},{"start":409.466,"end":430.354,"text":"非常不公平啊,如果地方都不用負擔責任,然後把責任都推給中央,那要地方政府幹什麼?是不是?所以我們就把責任全責劃分清楚。這個也是我要跟你提醒的。什麼人要做什麼事情?當遇到災損,第一步驟誰要做?先把SOP都訂好。"},{"start":431.673,"end":458.536,"text":"沒做的拿出來打屁股不是把責任推給別人就可以這個部長我也請你拜託把地方中央該負責所謂勘災當遇到災損的時候農漁畜牧災損的時候該怎麼做的SOP訂出來地方政府的權責訂好這個部分再麻煩另外一個就是我們後避"},{"start":460.265,"end":460.305,"text":"總經費多少?"},{"start":485.725,"end":491.968,"text":"部長不要再講國發會了在這個禮拜一我剛問過國發會國發會說現在已經回歸到行政院行政院已經給農業部了就是要針對你們的人力問題編制問題下去做處理下去做調整對不對所以你們現在就是一個推一個嘛"},{"start":513.473,"end":514.013,"text":"我跟委員報妙齁"},{"start":541.206,"end":543.989,"text":"我知道那是這一次然後要應付到明年所謂兩個國際的一個展覽"},{"start":561.326,"end":573.421,"text":"這個我清楚可是我講的這是大計劃大計劃的部分現在你們還在行政院要求你們要針對機關編制調整這個部分你們什麼時候要抱怨"},{"start":574.417,"end":581.243,"text":"我們今年年底就會報 今年年底才要報 你公建計劃怎麼會來得及我跟委員講 那個整個機關人事調整經費調整不是那麼簡單那你這樣子公建計劃怎麼會來得及公建計劃它會滾動的你們到底114年度要編多少 公建計劃"},{"start":595.414,"end":608.742,"text":"那是南蛙花卉產業創新園區,多少?這是15以後的事情,因為它是一個比較長程的計畫,它是跟南蛙園區的第二個園區結合的。"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:28:06 - 10:38:24","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":438,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（10時28分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：請農業部陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長好。部長，在這一次凱米颱風之後，我們發現了一個問題，因為這一次凱米颱風其實是全面性的，所以我們在整個農災的部分很快就核准，漁災的部分也是，甚至是畜牧的部分，都是在當下、然後連續三天就馬上公布，可是現在發現一個問題，當像凱米這樣的一個全面致災，有一個部分我們沒有辦法去做任何的協助，就是產業設備，產業設備這才是嚴重。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：像凱米這個是瞬間耶！尤其又遇到了像八掌溪的堤防……"],["陳部長駿季：潰堤。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，然後破洞、潰堤的狀態，那根本擋不了，可是在產業的部分，它設備上如果有問題，我們沒有辦法協助他們去做任何的賠償也好，然後做復工，他們都會「塗牛屎」，這個部分我們從這一次凱米颱風之後，我們有什麼樣的檢討嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，我現在也要求我們同仁開始重新再去檢視天然災害救助辦法，第一個部分就是救助的品項，它的金額部分我們會重新去做檢討……"],["陳委員亭妃：這也是我要跟部長談的……"],["陳部長駿季：第二個部分，也沒有錯，我們現在看到的，因為現在天然災害救助辦法裡面的規範都是直接的損失，對於間接的損失是沒有納入的，沒有納入的話，我們可以用輔導的作為去做，也可以看看有沒有機會直接放在天然災害救助裡面。"],["陳委員亭妃：其實你們現在都用所謂低利率來協助……"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是我告訴你，那整個就是一片狼藉，你要怎麼去協助他？他也不知道要從哪裡開始，你低利率給他也沒有用。我們要講的是，當我們要協助他做任何災後回復的動作，其實有時候在產業的設備部分才是一個重要，所以我覺得這個部分要重新檢討。還有另外一個，我在這當中也跟部長通過電話，就像部長剛才說的你要檢討，你們的品項多久沒有檢討了？部長，多久沒檢討了？"],["陳部長駿季：我們的品項是……"],["陳委員亭妃：虱目魚……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，滾動在檢討……"],["陳委員亭妃：我們的……"],["陳部長駿季：農糧的部分，魚的部分，很抱歉，魚的部分我覺得有一段時間了。"],["陳委員亭妃：多久了？你先講多久，你就知道難怪那個誤差那麼大。"],["陳部長駿季：上次什麼時候？"],["陳委員亭妃：多久？"],["王代理署長正芳：應該有兩、三年了。"],["陳委員亭妃：兩、三年了？不只吧！還有我們的畜牧呢？一隻雞、一隻鴨……"],["陳部長駿季：我們今年8月6號的時候有重新提出來，開始去做檢討，上一次檢討，我承認畜牧跟養殖漁業的部分是很久了，但是農糧的部分，那時候我們都有定期滾動檢討。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個滾動檢討非常重要，我們希望農漁畜牧的品項都要滾動檢討，隨時滾動檢討，我們的物價波動那麼快……"],["陳部長駿季：了解。"],["陳委員亭妃：在這一次我們看到那個資料，當我們公布之後，全面災損，然後公布，哇！我們看到那個品項的單價怎麼差那麼多，所以畜牧業、養殖業全部跳腳，全部跳腳之後，跟部長回復的時候，沒辦法，因為公告了，只能下次再拿出來做總體檢。部長，8月6號你們已經提出來了，請問多久？然後裡面一定要設一個叫滾動式檢討的標準，好不好？因為你沒有滾動式檢討，我們看到的農漁畜牧你沒有定期滾動式檢討，有可能又兩、三年後，物價指數一飛，又不知道要飛到哪裡去了，部長，可不可以？"],["陳部長駿季：了解，我基本上的看法是這樣子，過往我們的農漁畜都是各自處理，被關心到的就處理比較快一點，比較沒有人反映的就少一點，我覺得這是不對的，特別是漁業的部分，像邱委員，就是召委這邊也非常非常關心這個部分，所以我的原則是，在每一年的汛期之前……"],["陳委員亭妃：都做一次檢討？"],["陳部長駿季：也許在年初的時候就先做一個確認，如果物價波動已經達到可以去啟動的時候，我們就來調整，也許可能……"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我覺得你講的這些原則要在你們的辦法裡面……"],["陳部長駿季：我們會明定。"],["陳委員亭妃：要明定……"],["陳部長駿季：對，我會用明定的方式。"],["陳委員亭妃：你沒有明定，有可能部長你今天這麼說，可是下面的人不一定會這麼認為……"],["陳部長駿季：了解、了解。"],["陳委員亭妃：每一次我們都要去麻煩部長，我們也會不好意思啊！我們認為這一個部分就是SOP，該怎麼走就怎麼做，而不是每一次我們都要麻煩到部長，然後部長交代，他們才拿出來檢討，而是在汛期前，就像部長所說的，汛期前你們就拿出來檢討，然後讓所有的相關單位有一個依循，甚至是地方的農政單位也知道該怎麼做，否則常常都是中央、地方完全是不同調，光一個勘災就不同調，這讓我們非常困擾，我們都不知道到底是我們的責任還是地方的責任，現在很簡單，大家都推給中央比較快啦！所以每次都先罵中央，我覺得這非常不公平，如果地方都不用負擔責任，把責任都推給中央，那要地方政府幹什麼，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以我們就把責任、權責劃分清楚，這個也是我要跟你提醒的，什麼人要做什麼事情，當遇到災損，第一步驟誰要做，先把SOP都訂好，沒做的拿出來打屁股，不是把責任推給別人就可以。部長，我也請你拜託把地方、中央該負責所謂勘災，當遇到農漁畜牧災損的時候，該怎麼做的SOP訂出來，地方政府的權責訂好，這個部分再麻煩。","另外一個就是後壁蘭花園區，部長你也知道，每一次在審預算的時候，我都再三拜託、再三提醒我們的預算很重要，你們光接手沒有預算都是假的，所以非常感謝你們訂了一個叫花卉產業創新園區中長程公共建設計畫，現在問題來了，這總經費多少？"],["陳部長駿季：68億，本來有下修到68億，現在國發會還在審，但是114年有撥了1.74億。"],["陳委員亭妃：來，部長不要再講國發會了，這個禮拜一我剛問過國發會，國發會說現在已經回歸到行政院，行政院已經給農業部了，就是要針對你們的人力問題、編制問題下去做處理、下去做調整，對不對？所以你們現在就是一個推一個嘛！68億，114年度是要編2.27億，這是預估的，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：1.74億。"],["陳委員亭妃：1.74億？"],["陳部長駿季：是，明年度。"],["陳委員亭妃：還是2.27億？114年度。"],["陳部長駿季：1.74。"],["陳委員亭妃：1.74億，114年度要1.74億，現在的進度在哪裡？現在到底進度在哪裡？我只要確定你現在進度到底在哪裡？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，114年1.74億，今年度我們去挪了大概3,200到3,500萬去做目前基本的馬路公共工程維修。"],["陳委員亭妃：我知道，那是這一次，然後要應付到明年所謂兩個國際的蘭展……"],["陳部長駿季：對，蘭展。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個我清楚，可是我講的這是大計畫，大計畫的部分，現在行政院要求你們要針對機關編制調整，這個部分你們什麼時候要報院？"],["陳部長駿季：我們今年年底就會報，不過我要跟……"],["陳委員亭妃：今年年底才要報？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員……"],["陳委員亭妃：這怎麼來得及啦！公建計畫怎麼會來得及？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說，整個機關的人事調整、經費調整不是那麼簡單，他們發了一個文給我們……"],["陳委員亭妃：這樣公建計畫怎麼會來得及？"],["陳部長駿季：公建計畫會滾動的……"],["陳委員亭妃：你們到底114年度要編多少？公建計畫耶！"],["陳部長駿季：那是蘭花花卉產業創新園區……"],["陳委員亭妃：對，花卉產業創新園區，多少？"],["陳部長駿季：這是115以後的事情，因為它是一個比較長程的計畫，它是跟蘭花園區的第二園區結合的。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，你們這樣速度都太慢了啦！你們這樣速度太慢了啦！"],["陳部長駿季：我也很著急，我跟你說，我也很著急啦！"],["主席：好，謝謝陳亭妃委員，部長請回座。","現在主席宣布休息10分鐘。","休息（10時38分）","繼續開會（10時48分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會，請官員回座，部長，請官員迅速回座，請大家遵守會議程序，請官員迅速回座，下一位質詢委員已經在了。","繼續開會，下一位質詢請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":294,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-4","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","王育敏","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","洪孟楷","徐富癸","麥玉珍","張雅琳","羅智強","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","劉建國"],"page_start":229,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00015"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}