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有人跟我們買東西那你就說什麼我現在發了一個新聞你們啊專門在搞破壞你們那個農業部發一個新聞花蓮的柚子再次銷往中國大陸那裡面講到說"},{"start":433.71,"end":456.503,"text":"發言：那發言書中：中國的文旦檢疫不合格率將近43%：我要去外銷你跟我們說我們的合格率：打不到：合格率啊：不合格的不合格將近43%：啊就在外銷啊啊你不知道啊"},{"start":459.246,"end":466.975,"text":"我們的國小企當然有各種政治性的因素在以前的黨只有用這個來黨你們要找人家也是用這個來黨的"},{"start":469.849,"end":479.512,"text":"委員真的是誤會我們農產品外銷不管是哪個國家我們應該要確保我們的品質所以換句話說如果說我們國內沒辦法把關的話去到中國以後被退貨那才是丟臉所以我們要確保我們的優質的產品那現在檢驗不合格的有沒有出去"},{"start":492.253,"end":507.971,"text":"剪譯不合格的就不會出去了?你講了齁,我不怎麼相信,我了解經過我們防檢局邊境剪譯不合格的話,我們不會讓他出關的好啦,保障品質要啦,不要那個時間花表啦"},{"start":508.932,"end":535.855,"text":"過了再發表你是在跟人家限制是在搞破壞最好你們不要來買啦我跟委員說明齁其實對於中國市場本身我們是重視每一個市場但是中國市場本身他是透過限制政府去談相關的檢疫條件那相關的所有的世界的國家的檢疫條件都是兩國之間來談的如果只是限制政府的話像柚子花蓮處理的那我們的台南的部分怎麼辦"},{"start":536.556,"end":555.176,"text":"他應該是一個國家的一個檢疫條件共同去推動的沒有你農業部的就是檢驗不合格率達到43%我不曉得我是看到這個新聞但是我相信縣政府包括農會他們常常在外銷的時候他們有自我檢驗"},{"start":556.457,"end":569.882,"text":"我不曉得這個新聞出來我現在不批判我覺得是搞破壞不是你農業部做的你就說不好你就說不好館長府做的都不會通過跟你農業部會通過我講的周偉主席那麼好你給我講幾分鐘看你站起來他們都問題要問的"},{"start":580.026,"end":581.008,"text":"陳超明有質而有效率的質詢"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:00:46 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11:10:40","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":598,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時）召委、主席好，首先有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：部長好。首先，我發覺一個問題非常地嚴重，農業部每次要解決都沒有解決，關於現在酪農的牛乳問題，以前是班班吃石斑，現在是班班喝鮮奶，我為什麼把這個題目拿出來？因為去年度我剛好處理過關於酪農產生的牛乳過剩問題，那時我記得跟處理的一個處長，我跟他講你要特別注意，臺紐經貿協定，因為紐西蘭的冷酪液品質非常好，所有超商都是用這樣來做出鮮奶，那時我苦求哀求，最後你們說很困難，所以我們當地養酪牛的只好把母的酪牛整個賣掉，現在也不經營，我那天才碰到他。","現在你班班來喝鮮奶的時候，你的流程非常地複雜，現在變成只要我們農產品一滯銷，你有兩個最大的客戶，一個是國中小學生，一個是軍隊，我覺得這不是辦法嘛！每一次你東西一滯銷的話，你們只能這樣解決啊！我記得你很認真處理，但是跟我講說困難很多，包括保久乳誰都不接，其實這個問題很嚴重，你們要面對事情又要保護酪農，其實一點都沒有做到啊！部長，這個我處理過，所以我能瞭解這樣的事情。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明一下，我們把牛奶推到學校去，臺灣絕對不是第一個國家，因為有「世界學校牛奶日」，其實全世界的小孩，包括臺灣的小孩……"],["陳委員超明：好，我們都學世界，我聽這些我是聽不下去，但是我們早晚……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，不是，這個部分我們絕對不是為了去化。"],["陳委員超明：你們農業部每次的做法是這樣。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，我們絕對不是為了去化。"],["陳委員超明：好，我想你很老實，我不跟你辯啦！"],["陳部長駿季：因為現在牛奶一年大概48萬噸，進到學校只有2萬噸，它量是非常少的。"],["陳委員超明：我說了，以後你們常常碰到都這樣。"],["陳部長駿季：我們只希望學童有加鈣。"],["陳委員超明：那我請教你一個問題，當初要解決困難，我還跟你們的處長說不然你幫我解決，到苗栗的學校去，你們說非常困難，說沒有錢，沒有這樣的經費，現在班班喝牛奶的經費從哪裡來？告訴我。"],["陳部長駿季：班班喝鮮奶，今年度是7.1億。"],["陳委員超明：編列多少？"],["陳部長駿季：7.1億。"],["陳委員超明：錢從哪裡來？"],["陳部長駿季：由農損基金。"],["陳委員超明：是從農損……"],["陳部長駿季：農損基金，農業受進口損害基金。"],["陳委員超明：不是從養牛產業升級計畫來的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我跟委員報告，我們養牛產業升級計畫是一個大計畫。"],["陳委員超明：在農損基金，錢是從養牛產業計畫來的，結果養牛產業計畫就是每一個學校的學生班班喝鮮奶，這個你要說清楚，據我得到的資料，這是從養牛產業升級計畫裡面支出的，不要騙我！"],["陳部長駿季：第一個，明年度的部分是由教育部的一般性補助款去支應。"],["陳委員超明：不要說明年度，我問到你這邊，你就跳到那個地方去。我跟你講，你大概是從養牛產業升級計畫，農損基金是大的，這是從裡面的分支項目出來的。要高級，低要升級，結果是叫學校班班去喝鮮奶，這樣子方法不對啦！","好，我說結論，我為什麼要提出這個問題？你現在要特別注意，臺灣為了加入CPTPP，說我們是已開發的國家，東南亞已開發的國家只有日本和新加坡，我們現在要加入CPTPP，我們的農業都要開放，你早晚都要面臨這樣的問題，不要掩耳盜鈴啊！我不知道何時能夠加入CPTPP，一加入之後，經濟部說我們是已開發國家，我們跟日本、新加坡都要一樣，農產品都要開放。我跟你講，你要想到未來發生的事情，這樣的做法不是一勞永逸，而且也不是真正解決的辦法，到時候滯銷又要叫學生來吃，叫軍隊來吃。"],["陳部長駿季：您應該誤會了，其實為了加入CPTPP，我們本身有一個非常重要的概念，就是要把國產的農產品做區隔化的市場，這個部分是非常重要的，還有在地農業的支持。"],["陳委員超明：好，都可以啦！你怎樣區隔化，這個是國際貿易一定的規則，我們都曉得，但是人家在進步，不是只有臺灣在進步，我自己在外面跑，已經曉得大概的狀況是怎麼樣，我們講話的時候要想到未來面臨的狀況，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["陳委員超明：還有一點，臺灣現在銷往哪一個國家最多？我們現在水果外銷哪一個地方最多？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在的水果外銷，生鮮水果外銷以日本為最大宗，大概每一年占全臺灣鮮果蔬，我如果沒有記錯的話，應該是到47.5%，將近有一半是輸到日本。"],["陳委員超明：我不講percent，你們說銷到哪裡都有成長，除了中國大陸以外都有成長，但是你記得「商人無祖國」，這一次開放採購我們的柚子，結果農業部還在說三道四，生意人和氣為貴，有人跟我們買東西，你們就說什麼？我現在發覺一個新聞，你們專門在搞破壞，農業部發了一個新聞，有關花蓮的柚子再次銷往中國大陸，新聞裡面提到花蓮輸中國的文旦檢疫不合格率將近43%，我要去外銷，你跟我們說不合格將近43%，那就滯銷了，你會不知道嗎？我們去外銷，當然有各種政治性的因素在，以前會擋，只有用這個來擋，你們要擋人家也是用這個來擋的。"],["陳部長駿季：我想委員真的是誤會了，我們農產品外銷，不管是哪個國家，我們應該要確保我們的品質。"],["陳委員超明：我瞭解，你現在講我們很正式要外銷出去……"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以換句話說，如果我們國內沒辦法把關的話，去到中國以後被退貨，那才是丟臉，所以我們要確保我們優質的產品。"],["陳委員超明：對，那現在檢驗不合格的有沒有出去？"],["陳部長駿季：檢驗不合格的就不會出去了。"],["陳委員超明：你說的喔！我不怎麼相信，我瞭解啦！"],["陳部長駿季：經過我們防檢局邊境檢疫不合格的話，我們不會讓它出關的。"],["陳委員超明：好啦！保障我們品質要啦！不要那個時間發表啦！過了再發表。你是在跟人家宣示，是在搞破壞，最好你們不要來買啦！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，其實對於中國市場本身，我們是重視每一個市場，但是中國市場本身是透過縣市政府去談相關的檢疫條件，世界所有國家的檢疫條件都是兩國之間來談的，如果只是縣市政府的話，像柚子是花蓮處理的，那臺南的部分怎麼辦？它應該是國家的一個檢疫條件共同去推動的。"],["陳委員超明：越描越黑啦！沒有經過你農業部的，就是檢驗不合格率達到43%啦！我不曉得，我是看到這個新聞，但是我相信縣政府，包括農會，他們常常在外銷的時候，他們有自我檢驗，我不曉得這個新聞出來，我現在不批判……"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：我覺得是搞破壞，不是你們農業部做的你就說不好。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：縣政府做的都不會通過，只有你農業部會通過。"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我們的檢疫標準是一致的，不會因為任何縣市而改變。"],["陳委員超明：召委、主席，我講了很久，不是啦！我是說召委主席那麼好，你給我再講幾分鐘。好，看你站起來，我還有很多問題要問。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：我再問一個問題，好不好？"],["主席：30秒。"],["陳委員超明：30秒就不要講了，大方一點。"],["主席：下次再說，下禮拜再說。"],["陳委員超明：好啦！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳超明委員優質而有效率的質詢，非常感謝，部長請回座。","下一位質詢請蔡易餘委員，比照一下優質這樣。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":294,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-4","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","王育敏","黃建賓","鍾佳濱","謝衣鳯","洪孟楷","徐富癸","麥玉珍","張雅琳","羅智強","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","劉建國"],"page_start":229,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138101_00015"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}