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︎"},{"start":98.945,"end":104.768,"text":"針對公脫設置的速度太慢,衛福部這邊政策方向大概是怎麼樣?"},{"start":105.782,"end":114.067,"text":"當然我們持續一直爭取監會...代理署長回答也可以齁沒有,是實際上一直那個爭取監會齁所以預計我們113人第一會設置...113年就是今年的會設555處可收拖1.7萬名兒童那114人會再增加37處"},{"start":127.978,"end":127.998,"text":"1萬7加1萬8"},{"start":144.348,"end":171.486,"text":"1萬8那就要看部件的地區還是以假如我這邊的資料沒有錯的話大概就是臺北市跟桃園算是最嚴重的這個必須要就是因為少子化算是一個國安層級的問題所以衛福部這邊必須要協助地方政府把可以做的事情做好"},{"start":173.227,"end":184.192,"text":"公脫的部分還有另外一個問題就是就是不當對待的事件也很常發生就是說在擴充量的同時怎麼兼顧照顧的品質"},{"start":195.982,"end":221.704,"text":"委員好這個照顧的部分我想我們大概是放在公托大概就是一個是托嬰中心一個是公共家園或者是給保母那第一個我們當然是要求就是絕對不能夠虐待小孩或不當對待我們就加強這個托育人員的這個教育訓練這是一個那第二個是我們在這個職場裡面的同仁是很辛苦的所以我們衛福部也提高了就跟行政院有爭取經費"},{"start":222.54,"end":246.622,"text":"提高他們的待遇希望是能夠讓他們在職場上面的條件是比較友善的我想這是我們的第二個做法第三個我們也是在加強我們縣市的同仁去做一些查訪平常的查訪以及做評鑑都去看他們有沒有做好照顧的工作"},{"start":248.68,"end":276.194,"text":"這三個方向好像都是正確的啦就是教育訓練然後讓他的專業的能力提高提高待遇讓他的情緒好一點那查核這個方向是對的可是希望能夠落實啦我常常說政策目標也好法律也好"},{"start":278.198,"end":281.805,"text":"訂的再好,落實不了,都是白搭啦。"},{"start":285.342,"end":309.284,"text":"部長我這邊還有一個問題就是監察院有指出說現在大概有176名特殊需求的兒少被安置在一般的護理指教跟身心障礙機構就是不是安置在他應該安置的地方"},{"start":310.886,"end":324.886,"text":"這個案你們應該有,你們現在要怎麼重新安置這一些特殊的、特殊需求的兒少來符合他的最佳利益?好,我想"},{"start":326.041,"end":351.681,"text":"特殊需求兒少安排在成人機構這個是因為有他特殊需求我們也希望想要得到更好的照顧那當然我們終極的目標就是希望他能夠回家不管是回自己的原生家庭或者是安養的一個縮養的家庭都是但是他如果需要還是需要在機構的話我們也會在長照的區域裡面做一個專區"},{"start":352.822,"end":353.483,"text":"所以不得不喊自災"},{"start":380.802,"end":389.88,"text":"理論上應該是這樣子嘛,對不對?那我們把它安置在一般的護理之家或是身心障礙福利機構怎麼落實"},{"start":394.924,"end":397.665,"text":"部長我直接因為我時間的關係我原本是禮拜二"},{"start":422.881,"end":436.835,"text":"就上個禮拜二總質詢的時候的時候要講還是因為就天后的關係所以就蓋成書面還是還是一樣是"},{"start":438.929,"end":460.897,"text":"醫學中心的問題因為我覺得這個醫學中心的的評鑑應該要由部長跟陳時中政委都在的時候來討論會比較好所以我才原本要因為陳時中部長就是一再一再承諾醫學中心一定要有升有降"},{"start":462.602,"end":483.196,"text":"可是他離職了以後卻突然一次評鑑就增加了三家的醫學中心醫學中心一直增加一方面健保的支出會增加會吧?會不會?"},{"start":485.954,"end":511.454,"text":"醫學中心跟區醫院幾戶是不一樣的嘛對不對會增加那健保健保收的少然後資的多現在大家一直在討論財源然後你們一直一直在增加醫學中心的數量從我們原本原本就台灣的人口數我們的評估是12家現在已經22家是"},{"start":514.397,"end":540.594,"text":"那假如說我還是我還是因為今天時間的關係我不想佔用其他其他同事的的太多時間我就想說假如說你們只升不降那是不是已經升級的的醫學中心就好好的讓他從事醫療機構就停止他的評鑑要不然他浪費一大堆一大堆時間做出很多書面"},{"start":541.636,"end":562.256,"text":"然後可是對他來講沒有意義因為他已經升到醫學中心他也不可能再升了那台灣的制度除了陳時中部長一直堅持說他一定會有升有降以外卻都是只升不降那何必浪費時間來做評鑑呢"},{"start":571.154,"end":587.604,"text":"平建也是要求當然平建我們希望不要造成醫院太多的行政作業不是 現在是這樣子因為平建是這樣他已經到醫學中心但是現在維持他的平建嘛但他平建無關他平建無關我們都不會幫他"},{"start":592.418,"end":599.508,"text":"現在就是...就是...我現在講的就是...醫學中心是從來沒有...沒有沒有台灣從來沒有醫學中心被降過"},{"start":611.581,"end":634.927,"text":"不然你再想一想因為這個問題我因為還有很多同事要質詢我不想再用大家的時間不過你想一想說臺灣到底在健保的財務已經這麼困難的情況下醫學中心一直加速一直增加"},{"start":636.896,"end":652.293,"text":"對於健保來講是一種傷害那醫學中心只升不降這個會不會造成醫學中心的怠惰這個部長想一想我們有機會再做討論謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:04:54 - 12:15:50","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月7日及9日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":761,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（12時5分）謝謝主席。主席，請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["楊委員曜：部長好。部長，少子化是一個很嚴重的問題，而且少子化的因素很多，其中有一項就是照顧的問題，所以本席認為國家在托嬰的部分必須再加把勁。本席要和部長討論一下0到2歲的嬰兒照顧問題，今年有很多報導都指出，很多縣市的父母親排不到公托。本席當然知道這是地方政府負責的事務，不過衛福部的政策和經費應該也可以多做一些事情，幫縣市解決問題。","你看，光是臺北市候補的人數就超過6,000人，桃園也超過3,000人，不只是五都，像宜蘭、嘉義這些地方大概都有候補的情形，本席認真看了一下，澎湖倒是沒有這個問題，不過還是必須請問一下，針對公托設置的速度太慢，衛福部的政策方向大概怎麼樣？"],["邱部長泰源：當然，我們一直在爭取經費……"],["楊委員曜：請代理署長回答也可以。"],["邱部長泰源：實際上我們也一直在爭取經費，預計113年底會設置……"],["楊委員曜：113年？就是今年。"],["邱部長泰源：會設555處，可收托1.7萬名兒童，114年會再增加37處，可以再增加1,200名托育量能。"],["楊委員曜：也就是說，明年可以收托1萬5,000人？"],["邱部長泰源：1萬7,000人加1,200人，大概是1萬8,000人。"],["楊委員曜：還要看布建的地區，假如本席的資料沒有錯的話，臺北市和桃園算是最嚴重的地方。因為少子化算是國安層級的問題，所以衛福部必須協助地方政府，把可以做的事情做好。"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["楊委員曜：公托的部分還有另外一個問題，就是不當對待的事件很常發生，所以在擴充量的同時，怎麼兼顧照顧的品質？"],["張代理署長美美：委員好，關於照顧，在公托的部分，一個是托嬰中心，一個是公共家園，或者是給保姆帶。第一個，我們當然是要求絕對不能虐待小孩或不當對待。"],["楊委員曜：對，當然是這樣。"],["張代理署長美美：我們就是加強托育人員的教育訓練，這是一個。第二個，這個職場的同仁是很辛苦的，所以衛福部也向行政院爭取經費，提高他們的待遇，希望讓他們的職場條件比較友善，這是我們第二個做法。第三個，我們也會請縣市同仁加強查訪，不管是平常的查訪以及評鑑，都會去看他們有沒有做好照顧的工作。"],["楊委員曜：這三個方向好像都是正確的，就是實施教育訓練，讓他的專業能力提高，提高待遇讓他的情緒好一點，還有查核，這個方向是對的，可是也希望你們能夠落實啦！本席常說不管是政策目標也好、法律也好，不管定的再好，如果落實不了都是白搭啦！","部長，本席還有一個問題，監察院指出現在大概有176名特殊需求兒少被安置在一般的護理之家和身心障礙機構，不是安置在他應該安置的地方，你們現在要怎麼重新安置這些有特殊需求的兒少，以符合他的最佳利益？"],["邱部長泰源：特殊需求的兒少安排在成人機構，這是因為他有特殊需求，我們希望他得到更好的照顧，當然，我們終極的目標就是希望他能夠回家，不管是回自己的原生家庭或者收養家庭，但如果他還是需要留在機構的話，我們也會在長照裡面做一個專區來好好照顧。另外，大家比較擔心的教育部分，我們也會有一個專門負責教育的團隊處理。當然，今天也有委員指教關於時間上的配合，這部分我們也會修正，保障他受教的權利。"],["楊委員曜：這些特殊需求的兒少，有的因為情況比較特殊，所以不得不安置在那裡，理論上應該是這樣子嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["楊委員曜：我們把他安置在一般的護理之家或是身心障礙福利機構，怎麼落實機構裡面的人員對相關兒少的照顧？因為照顧成年人和照顧兒少還是有區隔的嘛！怎麼落實他們的專業？這點還是必須要做好，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["楊委員曜：部長，原本本席是上個禮拜二總質詢的時候要說，因為天候的關係改成書面。一樣是醫學中心的問題，因為本席覺得醫學中心的評鑑應該是部長和陳時中政委都在的時候，一起討論比較好，所以本席原本要在總質詢時提問。因為陳時中部長一再承諾，醫學中心一定要有升有降，可是他離職以後，一次評鑑就突然增加三家醫學中心，醫學中心一直增加，健保的支出也會增加，會吧？會不會？醫學中心和區域醫院的給付是不一樣的嘛！對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：會增加。"],["楊委員曜：健保收的少，但是支出變多，現在大家也一直在討論財源，但你們卻一直在增加醫學中心的數量，就臺灣的人口數，原本的評估是12家，現在已經有22家。今天因為時間的關係，本席不想占用其他同事太多時間，假如你們只升不降，那已經升級的醫學中心，就好好讓他們做醫療機構該做的事，停止他們的評鑑，而不是讓他們浪費一大堆時間做書面資料，這對他們來說沒有意義，因為他們已經升到醫學中心，也不可能再升了。這是臺灣的制度，除了陳時中部長一直堅持會有升有降以外，都是只升不降，那麼又何必浪費時間做評鑑呢？部長覺得如何？"],["邱部長泰源：評鑑也是一種要求。當然，我們也希望不要因為評鑑，讓醫院有太多的行政作業啦！"],["楊委員曜：不是的，現在是這樣，因為他們已經達到醫學中心的等級……"],["邱部長泰源：但是他們也要維持品質，如果不考試的話……"],["楊委員曜：但是不管他們的品質如何，我們也不會降低等級嘛！本席現在說的是，醫學中心從來沒有……"],["邱部長泰源：也不是沒有降喔！就我的了解，如果分數沒有達到的話，應該是要降啦！"],["楊委員曜：沒有！臺灣從來沒有醫學中心被降過等級。部長，你再想一想，因為還有很多同事要質詢，本席不想占用大家的時間，不過你想一想，臺灣在健保財務已經這麼困難的情況之下，醫學中心的家數還一直增加，對健保來說也是一種傷害。醫學中心只升不降，這樣會不會造成醫學中心的怠惰？請部長想一想，我們有機會再討論，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員，謝謝部長。接著請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","盧縣一","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","王育敏","王正旭","黃秀芳","李坤城","楊曜","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","洪申翰","黃捷","吳春城","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","何欣純","林宜瑾","羅智強","張雅琳","涂權吉","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳瑩","林倩綺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「我國人工生殖法制化作業進度」、「衛生福利部落實中央政府我國少子\n女化對策計畫之成效與未來規劃」及「衛生福利部本月因疏於督導地方評估特殊需求兒少利益所\n受監察院糾正之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}