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楊瓊發言 邀請我們主委、客委會主委還有教育部、文化部好 請谷主委還有文化部理事長以及教育部梁司長"},{"start":18.277,"end":44.291,"text":"是 我想我們本席我們一併討論是一個尊重平權的一個概念那這個我們原本就有我們的法規在2019年的時候公告的國家語言發展法第三條明確的規定國家語言是指臺灣各固有族群使用之自然語言及臺灣手語"},{"start":45.751,"end":65.745,"text":"這是我們的法律定定之在那裡那行政部門有了不一樣的見解還要去做調整那必須要預告那預告期間有人正式的告知是不認同的那你們在竟然也不理智的在9月30號來公告"},{"start":67.545,"end":94.379,"text":"來讓他通過那請問在預告當中有人提出不一樣的見解你們怎麼做處置請做說明報告委員當然在預告當中如果有一些意見的表達我們就是會去做回覆做回覆怎麼樣不理之我就要滿幹我就要這麼走為什麼會這樣做的理由為什麼這麼做的理由人家是不認同的難道我們這個政府就是你要想做什麼就做什麼嗎"},{"start":95.996,"end":111.36,"text":"這不是一般的政策這是法律定定之你來一個預告人家有意見你仍舊告訴他我為什麼要這麼做你有沒有考慮到我們的族群裡頭他認不認同臺灣這麼好的一個國家竟然連這一個都要把它撕裂這是怎麼回事啊怎麼的一個邏輯"},{"start":122.779,"end":132.947,"text":"你們麻煩的做再請教三位當人民看到你們在9月30號如此的作為他們的吶喊你們聽到了沒你們聽到了沒你們做好感想請做說明"},{"start":137.045,"end":138.145,"text":"請做說明好,還是依照你們的作為"},{"start":163.004,"end":190.33,"text":"你聽到人民在那喊人民不一樣的意見 你在心裡做什麼感想謝謝委員提問 我想各個族群的情感都是政府需要去面對然後需要去安撫那這一些覺得有受傷的部分 文化部會持續在法令主管機關那邊多做的溝通我真的暈倒了 行政部門你自己還承認是有受傷"},{"start":191.83,"end":208.401,"text":"你整個我四個字送你啊獨尊霸權這不是國家語言法的初衷不是這樣子的對你已經看到是有受傷你還去安撫我明明不需要你安撫啊為什麼要安撫"},{"start":210.443,"end":222.874,"text":"這種邏輯太奇怪了到底是聽命誰敢這麼大膽的做這種事情去撕裂我們所有的族群台灣最珍貴的民主自由族群融合"},{"start":223.919,"end":242.366,"text":"平權概念這是臺灣最寶貴的為什麼連你行政部門在執行都認為有傷害你還要去安撫這為什麼會如此的作為呢這麼貿然作為呢難怪我送你四個字叫做獨尊霸權我不知道是誰去做這樣的決定人民的吶喊這麼大聲族群吶喊這麼大聲"},{"start":254.724,"end":280.046,"text":"你們各司本職應當要提出你們的論點告訴政府一個政府是必須要橫向去聯繫去討論去探求明末怎麼樣讓我們的國家能夠更加的安定人民更加的有尊嚴這是我們必須要做的所以你們審慎去思維像這樣的一個情況"},{"start":281.67,"end":290.78,"text":"不只是獨尊霸權,你還是俘老霸權從這兩三個月來,地方所發出的抗議"},{"start":292.093,"end":316.781,"text":"他們非常卑微的一個要求我們只要求族群平等、語言平等這是我們所要求的而且是政府必須要做的你們再審慎為之再去討論你怎麼樣安撫這一道傷口已經在傷口上灑鹽這不是我們所要看的"},{"start":317.662,"end":342.496,"text":"所以你們審慎地將我們所發言的內容：人民的心聲：你要審慎為之好不好你們再去討論把你們精進的方案再給本席那接下來本席要跟你討論的我一直在討論科委會我們統計我們客家人口佔了將近467萬人口是全國的人口的大概19.8"},{"start":343.997,"end":363.072,"text":"相對於105年你提升了0.5 增加了14萬但是我們來看本市非常重視我們的客語想盡了一切辦法我們不管唱歌啊跳舞啊引起大家的注意引起大家的興趣我一直努力的在推動我們的客語"},{"start":364.292,"end":370.616,"text":"因此我們看到講客家語言的人反而是減少你相對105年會聽的到現在從64.3%到現在56.4%"},{"start":379.7,"end":404.628,"text":"會說的像剛剛我聽得懂但是我沒有辦法講所以我還在精進會說的從105年46.8%到現在38.3%你降低了8.5%主委你使勁的告每一任的主委都告訴我你們要各方面洪荒之力全部下但是給我們的結果論是往下滑"},{"start":405.663,"end":411.65,"text":"要怎麼做?請教主委。感謝容議員。沒錯,有的語言復讐一定困難。有的困難真是要靠臺語入天書。我認為學位費在各方面、各兩位、各個層次都"},{"start":425.084,"end":427.566,"text":"二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":442.438,"end":443.459,"text":"主要主要主要主要主要主要主要主要主要"},{"start":460.078,"end":473.208,"text":"主委你現在回覆到這裡都是照原本的照本宣課你沒有提出你的方案你冷靜去想一想我們在地方上在辦的時候我們甚至以家庭式在辦"},{"start":474.434,"end":490.701,"text":"家庭式的歌唱家庭式的故事戲劇為什麼要這麼做我們希望一代傳一代一代傳一代讓家庭式更加的團結然後去發揚光大"},{"start":491.181,"end":501.528,"text":"你要去想方法而不是依照你目前你花了這麼多錢你一樣是下滑而且速度這麼恐怖就已經在下滑了8.5%了你竟然還來搞了一個這個這個讓人家沒有辦法接受的族群撕裂"},{"start":510.459,"end":513.301,"text":"我們再次請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":528.251,"end":555.397,"text":"教育、家庭：要奉募請人家去推薦：這樣開了提供培養：好,你把這個時間點給我最後一個議題我再給你105年你所謂的臺三線這個克中浪漫大道治理平台到了109年你再擴大所謂的369治理平台那你也橫跨了18個部會跟地方政府組成的客家政策國家隊"},{"start":556.877,"end":582.689,"text":"這也可以顯示政府對於客家政策的決心推動．給予高度的支持．但是突然來了一個語言撕裂．讓我們心很痛．但是我還是勉勵．鼓勵政府必須好好去做我們的世界客家博覽會．去年66天有一萬一千人．"},{"start":583.689,"end":608.556,"text":"我們非常的歡喜希望能夠再精進那麼在接下來你客委會對於整個推動客家語言的附贈那麼文藝復興跟客家經濟的發展這些客家事務你要怎麼樣去創造在臺灣友善的社會環境我想這是主委你必要做的那你把經濟方案給本席大概多久時間告知本席"},{"start":609.036,"end":610.936,"text":"二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":634.981,"end":657.997,"text":"你們今天擔任的這麼重要的職務竟然是作為筷子手讓族群撕裂這是對不起我們的人民的所以我在這邊嚴肅的告知必須好好的去思維要怎麼樣讓我們的族群能夠有平權的這樣子的一個方陣這才是國家之福好不好"},{"start":658.957,"end":661.64,"text":"所有語言都在臺灣的國家語言,我們建議不侵犯每一句不可能啦,這間族群撕裂來叫人家不要,不可能啦,主委你好好去思考啦,謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:16:55 - 12:28:16","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":995,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時16分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。邀請客委會主委，還有教育部、文化部。"],["主席：請古主委，還有文化部李次長以及教育部梁司長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席一併討論尊重平權的概念，我們原本就有我們的法規，在2019年的時候公告的國家語言發展法第三條明確規定，國家語言是指臺灣各固有族群使用之自然語言及臺灣手語。這個是我們的法令訂定在那裡的，行政部門有了不一樣的見解，要去調整，必須要預告。預告期間有人正式地告知是不認同的，你們竟然也不理，在9月30日公告並讓它通過，請問在預告當中有人提出不一樣的見解，你們怎麼處置？請做說明。"],["梁司長學政：報告委員，在預告當中如果有一些意見的表達，我們會去回復。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：回復是怎麼樣？不理？我就是要蠻幹，我就要這麼走！"],["梁司長學政：不是，會說明為什麼會這樣做的理由。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：為什麼這麼做的理由，人家是不認同的，難道這個政府是想做什麼就做什麼嗎？這不是一般的政策，這是法律訂定之，你來一個預告，人家有意見，你仍舊告訴他我為什麼要這麼做，你有沒有考慮到我們的族群裡頭認不認同？臺灣這麼好的一個國家，竟然連這個都要把它撕裂，這是怎麼回事，怎麼樣的一個邏輯？你們就這樣蠻橫的做！","再請教三位，當人民看到你們在9月30日如此的作為，對於他們的吶喊，你們聽到了沒？你們聽到了沒？你們作何感想？請說明。"],["古主任委員秀妃：委員好。我們收到大家的意見以後，我們就有反映，所以在文化部的國家語言會議裡面有增加客家的場次，我們有反映這個問題，我想要多多來溝通，所以我們有反映這個事情。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，還是依照你們的作為。你聽到人民的吶喊、人民不一樣的意見，你的心裡作何感想？你怎麼處理？"],["李次長靜慧：謝謝委員提問，我想各個族群的情感都是政府需要去面對、需要去安撫的，這一些覺得有受傷的部分，文化部會持續在法令主管機關那邊多溝通，我們會持續。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：哇！我真的暈倒了。行政部門自己還承認有受傷，我四個字送你，「獨尊霸權」。"],["李次長靜慧：這不是國家語言法的初衷，不是這樣子的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你已經看到有受傷，你還要去安撫，我明明不需要你安撫，為什麼要安撫？這種邏輯太奇怪了！到底是聽命誰，敢這麼大膽的做這種事情去撕裂所有的族群？臺灣最珍貴的民主、自由、族群融合、平權概念，是臺灣最寶貴的，為什麼連行政部門在執行都認為有傷害，你還要去安撫？為什麼會有如此的貿然的作為呢？難怪我要送你四個字，叫做「獨尊霸權」。我不知道是誰做這樣的決定，人民的吶喊這麼大聲，族群吶喊這麼大聲，你們各司本職應當要提出你們的論點告訴政府，一個政府必須要橫向聯繫、討論、探求民瘼，怎麼樣讓國家能夠更加的安定，人民更加的有尊嚴，這是我們必須要做的，所以請你們審慎去思維。像這樣的情況，不只是獨尊霸權，還是「福佬霸權」。這兩、三個月來，地方發出抗議，提出一個非常卑微的要求，只要求族群平等、語言平等，這是我們所要求的，而且是政府必須要做的。你們再審慎為之、再去討論，怎麼樣安撫這一道傷口？你們已經在傷口上撒鹽，這不是我們所要看的，所以面對我所發言的內容、人民的心聲，你要審慎為之，好不好？你們再去討論，把你們精進的方案再給本席。","接下來，本席要跟你討論的，也是我一直在討論的，據客委會統計，客家人口將近467萬人，占了全國人口大概19.8%。相對於105年，提升了0.5%，增加了14萬。本席非常重視客語，想盡了一切辦法，不管是透過唱歌、跳舞來引起大家的注意、引起大家的興趣，我一直努力在推動客語，但講客家語言的人反而減少。相對105年，會聽的從64.3%降到現在的56.4%。像剛剛我聽得懂，但是我沒有辦法講，所以我還在精進。會說的從105年46.8%到現在38.3%，降低了8.5%。每一任的主委都告訴我，你們要在各方面窮盡洪荒之力，但給我們的結論是往下滑，要怎麼做？請教主委。"],["古主任委員秀妃：感謝楊委員。沒錯，語言的復振很困難，這個困難真的要靠大家來幫忙，客委會在各方面、各領域、各個層次，都把我們的預算用在這所有當中，我們會花很多精神在這個部分。再來，我們會透過系統，把人跟人之間連繫起來，就是我們說的手把手、一個一個帶，主要就是要把這個語言的意識提高。假使像這樣沒有語言意識，還是會一直掉，所以最主要還是要有語言的意識。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，你現在回復到這裡，都是照原本的、照本宣科，你沒有提出你的方案。你冷靜去想一想，我們在地方上辦的時候，甚至以家庭式在辦，透過家庭式的歌唱及家庭式的故事、戲劇，為什麼要這麼做？我們希望一代傳一代，讓家庭更加團結，然後發揚光大。你要去想方法，而不是依照目前的方式。你花了這麼多錢，一樣是下滑，而且速度這麼恐怖，就已經下滑了8.5%，你竟然還搞了一個讓人家沒有辦法接受的族群撕裂，太離譜了！所以我把這個功課給你，你要怎麼樣去推展、想一想方案，多久時間給本席你們的精進方案？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我們會很快在兩週內給委員，包括教育、家庭，所有目前我們在推展的政策，都可以提供給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你把這個時間點給我。最後一個議題，你們105年有所謂的臺三線客庄浪漫大道治理平臺，到了109年再擴大成369治理平臺，橫跨了18個部會，跟地方政府組成客家政策國家隊，這個也可以顯示政府對於客家政策推動的決心，我們給予高度支持。突然來了一個語言撕裂，讓我們真的是心很痛。但我還是勉勵、鼓勵政府必須好好去做，去年世界客家博覽會66天有1,100萬人次參觀，我們非常歡喜，希望能夠再精進。","接下來，對於推動客家語言的復振、文藝復興跟客家經濟發展等客家事務，客委會要怎麼樣在臺灣創造友善的社會環境，我想這是主委必須要做的。請你把精進方案給本席，告知本席大概多久時間？"],["古主任委員秀妃：一樣，兩週可以提供。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你把它精進出來。最後本席還要再勉勵，「法令定之」，用行政命令來預告，民眾抗議而且已經提出不一樣的論點，你們要各司本職，勇於講出你們的聲音。要不然你們今天擔任這麼重要的職務，竟然作為劊子手，讓族群撕裂，這是對不起人民的！我在這邊嚴肅的告知，必須好好去思維，要怎麼樣讓族群能夠有平權的方針，這才是國家之福，好不好？"],["古主任委員秀妃：所有的語言都是臺灣的國家語言，我們是建議性質的，不會強制每一個都一定要……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不可能啦！"],["古主任委員秀妃：不！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就已經族群撕裂了，還叫人家不要，不可能！主委好好去思考，謝謝。"],["古主任委員秀妃：楊委員誤會了。這不是唯一的問題，還是有選擇性建議的用法。"],["主席：主委要站穩正確的立場。謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","接下來請張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-4","speakers":["徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","張智倫","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張宏陸","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","林倩綺","吳琪銘","高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","羅智強","涂權吉","徐富癸","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","黃國昌","呂玉玲","蘇清泉","丁學忠","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2024-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1138001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概\n況，並備質詢；二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育\n部，就「臺灣台語」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正\n「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138001_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}