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院長好 在這裡我想就是"},{"start":33.064,"end":55.495,"text":"還是要跟院長說加油因為我們知道今天中午的這個總預算的一個協商是破局沒有破局的沒有破局還在努力還在努力所以是努力的非常的辛苦其實我們也是很害怕因為整體的總預算其實關係到我們區域裡頭有很多必須要推動的這一些"},{"start":56.636,"end":56.736,"text":"賴惠委員"},{"start":85.558,"end":108.32,"text":"因為我想院長在今天早上就是要一路走下來每一個委員他的一個區域性的一個發展都不一樣那像郭國文委員他急著跳腳說太多的一個電廠在他那個地方其實我非常有感而發那早期在國民黨時代的時候那就是說"},{"start":110.014,"end":110.034,"text":"賴惠員"},{"start":133.237,"end":156.747,"text":"大台南要整體的一個發展的話在這裡想跟三位做一個探討那我們知道說臺灣目前最火紅的就是我們的那個護國神山台積電那台積電其實在7月份的時候那我們的黃仁勳來的時候他有特別講到就是說先進的製程的那個封章技術其實是需求量非常高的"},{"start":158.268,"end":175.799,"text":"臺積電的2.5D的一個先進的一個封裝,它其實關係的AI的一個關鍵。那我今天早上也跟部長跟主委那個事先做過了一個探討,顯然我是不是可以請部長就是說,"},{"start":177.06,"end":177.08,"text":"賴惠員"},{"start":192.755,"end":207.91,"text":"報告委員我想這一個跟你的目標希望引進台積電到柳營這一帶我跟您報告就是說我們目前包括台南市政府抱邊的柳營工業區"},{"start":208.851,"end":211.252,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":238.294,"end":253.039,"text":"這個還有幾個條件,除了這個水、電、土地以外,人是非常重要的關鍵。 台積電先進封裝來講的話,它還是需要一些比較高階的工程師。"},{"start":254.359,"end":277.598,"text":"就是跟一般的過去傳統的這個封裝是不太一樣,所以臺南這邊一定要有一些這個人力上面可以補得上來,這是第一件事情。 第二件事情也就是說我們的這個園區必須要轉換成這個科學園區,這科學園區就變成是國科會在主導,"},{"start":278.559,"end":299.538,"text":"所以我建議委員是不是從這個方向去思考。 第二個就是電的問題今天早上這個我想有另外一位委員也在講說我們臺南基本上目前的這個電廠但是經過我們盤點過以後臺南現在的自主率只有25%"},{"start":301.348,"end":313.365,"text":"所以我們電其實是在臺南地區是不夠的那變成說如果說你有希望這樣的話我們倒是建議委員可以在您的這個選區裡面這個接受蓋一個電廠"},{"start":317.927,"end":318.467,"text":"臺積電一定會選擇到你所希望去的地方。"},{"start":341.609,"end":354.399,"text":"謝謝部長的提醒,我想在這裡跟院長做一個請教。 院長,你如果到台南來考察還是到台南來開會的時候,你最常會在嘉義還是在沙崙下車高鐵?"},{"start":357.125,"end":357.145,"text":"賴惠員"},{"start":384.896,"end":408.507,"text":"我想在這個地方,就是說不管是封測場還是說一個那個科學園區,我覺得我這個地方它有非常適合的一個交通流量。那在下一頁,就是說我們來講的話,台塘在這個地方還有165公頃的一個空地,那它的會線基地其實也是可以活用的。"},{"start":409.207,"end":409.427,"text":"賴慧如議員"},{"start":430.23,"end":430.25,"text":"臨軍縣委員"},{"start":449.428,"end":449.528,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":464.96,"end":486.527,"text":"因為南部的這個S郎帶是南部科技發展跟產業升級相當重要的那在裡面所有現在面臨到的問題我們都一併來考量但是委員特別關心是今天提到的這個大新營地區那我請國發會也把它處理一下那個經濟部甚至國科會如果有需要的話我們會把它很積極的來面對"},{"start":489.428,"end":509.354,"text":"院長,我再讓你看一張現有的這張圖,你看到的就是說我沿海我有很多力能的一個花店,那這個場區裡頭,然後我的水庫也非常的充足,我有台塘的陸寮水庫,我有白河水庫,徵溫水庫,還有那個就是我的烏山頭水庫。"},{"start":510.594,"end":534.443,"text":"這幾個水庫事實上還有就是交通,交通也非常的便利,我光是就是在國道三線,在這個區域裡頭有三個交流道,有水上、柳營,還有就是六甲的交流道,那甚至就是說我還有台37線的一個延伸在海邊,那事實上還有86,其實它這個交通是四通八達的。"},{"start":535.183,"end":561.318,"text":"四通八達的其實我這個地方因為它後續發展了所以它其實有更好的一個空間有更好的一個規劃可以來做就是說我還在這裡還是特別請院長就是說針對了這整體的一個發展我們希望加入就是智慧科技大南方產業的一個生態生態系來講的話我這個地方其實是最適合的"},{"start":561.798,"end":565.062,"text":"謝謝委員,您在上一個會期就很關心這件事,您關心之後後來我有找到"},{"start":582.382,"end":609.261,"text":"臺積電這些單位談過那因為他們也要考慮到整個地能不能達到時程目標第二個跟郭部長講的一樣就是他們希望是在科學園區所以因為有時程跟這個環評時程的問題所以是不是這樣子下個禮拜我帶著這個國科會跟這個經濟部的主管我們一起到您辦公室來討論細節期待我想科技的最後一塊拼圖"},{"start":612.123,"end":625.25,"text":"這就是S郎帶的最後一塊拼圖,有賴宜就是院長、部長還有主委的一個協助,非常謝謝。那接著要跟院長共同的來討論這一次台米颱風造成的這個我這個選區的一個重創。"},{"start":628.032,"end":642.007,"text":"七月下旬的一個台米颱風造成我這個整個鄭文熙以北西北地區的產業的一個重創那我在這裡也非常謝謝就是院長多次的就是到我的選區裡頭來"},{"start":643.508,"end":643.528,"text":"賴惠員"},{"start":662.861,"end":684.981,"text":"我們很多很多的一個市民點滴在心頭在這裡也非常謝謝謝謝就是院長那我想就是今年的就是總預算應該是講明年的總預算我們知道又多增加了150幾億那當然就是我們看到總統看到你也看到了團隊也看到了就是淹水的一個經費的一個不足"},{"start":685.661,"end":709.369,"text":"那在現狀裡頭,在現狀裡頭,我在這裡,那個部長你可以,那個經理部長你請回,我最主要就是要再請教我們的農業部長,就是說整個巴掌溪的一個潰堤,那在清一的一個過程裡頭,因為我們知道持續又來了幾個颱風,大大小小的颱風,可是後續,後續怎麼樣去完成它,"},{"start":710.109,"end":715.194,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":734.011,"end":757.636,"text":"大家農業部也很幫忙,農業部這個錢已經到位了,那就是說台南市政府也積極的在那個搶修。那我是不是可以請那個就是說做一個建議,我們希望就是說採用多元的一個治水的一個手段,那我們希望,希望就是說都敢旗下強化就是區域的黃紅能量。"},{"start":759.177,"end":774.009,"text":"這個黃紅的能量我想這個龍業部長你是內行的在我們在現行的一個做法裡頭定期的清一還是河川的整治提案的一個強化那我們印證在巴掌溪這個黃紅的措施裡頭我們希望"},{"start":774.349,"end":795.787,"text":"是不是可以增加大型的一個新流域還是說增設它比較大的滯洪池甚至就是說我們傳統那個黃紅用的這個濃湯就是杯湯這種早期的時候其實在農業裡面這是最好的一個黃質淹水的一個方式有沒有比較好的一個方式就是說可以把這個淹水的問題徹底來解決呢?"},{"start":798.506,"end":806.306,"text":"我跟那個委員報告就是說針對巴掌西這邊這次的一個一個議題以後造成的這些農地流失"},{"start":806.892,"end":807.012,"text":"主席"},{"start":829.844,"end":856.962,"text":"好 謝謝部長那我想說你已經很快的進入了狀況就是農業的一個淹水一個積極的一個處理的方式那針對的這個低窪的地區在這裡我要拜託這個院長責成農業部針對低窪地區的這個滋洪池還有就是防災用的這個農業的皮糖是不是有可能把它變成就是我們多樣的一個防水的一個新的新的一個那個"},{"start":858.783,"end":874.631,"text":"新的一個方法在這裡要特別拜託那個院長那接著跟院長再討論一個農業的議題這個農業的環境污染的一個問題院長你你你吃不吃臭豆腐吃了臭豆腐加不加青菜"},{"start":879.615,"end":901.241,"text":"我想這個因人而異,有些人認為說臭豆腐是很香,有些人認為這個味道特別的濃,不喜歡。那其實工廠的會氣跟畜牧業的一個養殖場產生的一個空氣的味道,哪一個比較臭?其實是工廠的會氣臭還是畜牧場的養殖場的會氣臭?"},{"start":903.021,"end":903.041,"text":"賴惠員"},{"start":961.572,"end":961.732,"text":"主席"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-11T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"16:06:57 - 16:23:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":1400,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（16時7分）謝謝主席。有請院長、經濟部部長及國發會主委。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、經濟部部長、國發會主委備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：院長好。在這裡我還是要跟院長說「加油」，因為我們知道今天中午的總預算協商是破局……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有破局，沒有破局啦！還在努力、還在努力。"],["賴委員惠員：還在努力？好，所以是努力得非常辛苦。其實我們也是很害怕，因為整體總預算關係到我們區域裡面很多必須要推動的這些基礎工程，尤其是我的農水路。今天特別要來跟院長、部長及主委探討一下，總統昨天在國慶文告裡面有特別講到，他要積極推動智慧科技大南方產業生態系，其實這對我們來講是一個很大的鼓勵，為什麼？我想院長從今天早上的質詢一路走下來，每個委員區域性的發展都不一樣，像郭國文委員急得跳腳說有太多電廠在他的地方，其實我非常有感而發。早期在國民黨時代的時候是重北輕南，後來小英總統上任，到近期的時候其實南北已經慢慢拉到均衡了，可是相對的在臺南，其實也需要有個平衡的發展。本席的選區其實位在偏北，也是最沒有建設的一個地方，如果大臺南要整體發展的話，在這裡想跟三位做個探討，我們知道臺灣目前最火紅的就是護國神山──台積電，關於台積電，在7月份黃仁勳來的時候有特別講到，先進製程封裝技術的需求量其實是非常高的，台積電2.5D先進封裝其實關係著AI的關鍵，我今天早上也跟部長、主委事先做過一個探討，顯然我是不是可以請部長分析一下，到底我們這個地方需不需要？我再接著跟部長介紹一下，我們準備要來說服你們的一個說帖，就是我這個地方準備好了，有水、有電、有交通、有人才。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，針對你希望引進台積電到柳營這一帶的目標，我要跟您報告的就是，目前臺南市政府報編的柳營工業區，它是屬於經濟部底下的產業園區，但是以台積電來講，到目前為止四十幾年下來，他們都在科學園區裡面，他們不會到一般的科技園區，所以，如果您剛才所說的，包括它現在新的、back-end的後端先進製程，這個還有幾個條件，除了水、電、土地以外，人是非常重要的關鍵……"],["賴委員惠員：是，沒有錯。"],["郭部長智輝：台積電的先進封裝來講的話，它還是需要一些比較高階的工程師，就是跟一般的、過去傳統的封裝不太一樣……"],["賴委員惠員：對，當然、當然。"],["郭部長智輝：所以臺南這邊一定要在人力上可以補得上來，這是第一件事情。第二件事情，也就是說這個園區必須要轉換成科學園區……"],["賴委員惠員：是。"],["郭部長智輝：科學園區就變成是國科會在主導，所以我建議委員，是不是從這個方向去思考。第二個就是電的問題，今天早上有另外一位委員也在講說，我們臺南基本上目前的這個電廠，但是經過我們盤點過以後，臺南現在的能源自主率只有25%，所以我們的電其實是……"],["賴委員惠員：電的自主率嗎，是不是？部長。"],["郭部長智輝：在臺南地區是不夠的。"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["郭部長智輝：那變成是如果你希望這樣的話，我們倒是建議委員可以在您的選區裡面接受蓋一個電廠，那它就可以完全來支持300公頃這樣的一個大型的科學園區所需要用的水跟電，那麼有豐沛的水跟豐富的電，我相信台積電他們一定會選擇到你所希望去的地方。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝部長的提醒。我想在這裡要跟院長請教，院長，你如果搭高鐵到臺南來考察或是開會的時候，你最常會在嘉義還是在沙崙下車？"],["卓院長榮泰：高鐵喔？"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["郭部長智輝：嘉義。"],["卓院長榮泰：不一定，看是在臺南的北邊或是南邊。"],["賴委員惠員：是。我想你應該有很多時候，即使你要到比較中間的地方例如善化，你也會在嘉義這個點下車。"],["卓院長榮泰：也會，也會。"],["賴委員惠員：相對的，我也要針對這個題目跟院長做一個探討，就是說不管是土地、交通、人才，其實我想在這一個地方，不管是設置封測廠還是科學園區，我覺得我這個地方有非常適合的交通流量。再看下一頁，就土地來講，台糖在這個地方還有165公頃的空地，它的廢線基地其實也是可以活用的；尤其我們有一個非常特別的，就是在這個區域裡頭有一個台紙工業區，它有接近五十甲的甲種工業用地。除了有這麼多的土地之外，剛才部長有特別提醒到就是電的問題，那電的問題的話，我想這是大家要共同來討論，做一個長遠性的討論。在這裡我要特別請教院長，是不是可以承諾優先，因為其實你已經答應允諾林俊憲委員特別提出來的，將台37線這條交通動線從嘉義延伸到新營段，那是不是可以承諾優先發展北臺南成為整個科技產業廊帶的重要一環呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為南部的這個S廊帶是南部科技發展跟產業升級相當重要的，那在裡面所有現在面臨到的問題，我們都一併來考量。但是，委員特別關心的是今天提到的這個大新營地區，那我請國發會也把它處理一下，還有經濟部，甚至國科會，如果有需要的話，我們會很積極地來面對它，看如何來進行。"],["賴委員惠員：院長，我再讓你看看現有的這一張圖，你看到的就是在我們沿海有很多綠能的發電，在這一個廠區裡頭，我的水庫也非常的充足，我有台糖的鹿寮水庫，我有白河水庫、曾文水庫，還有我的烏山頭水庫，除了這幾個水庫，事實上還有交通，交通也非常的便利，我光是在國道3號，在這個區域裡頭有3個交流道，有水上、柳營還有六甲的交流道。甚至我還有台37線延伸到海邊，事實上，還有台84線、台86線，其實這個交通是四通八達的。其實我這個地方因為它後續發展了，所以它其實有更好的一個空間、有更好的一個規劃可以來做。我在這裡還是要特別請院長，就是針對這整體的發展，我們希望加入智慧科技大南方產業的生態系，我這個地方其實是最適合的，所以我也希望院長可以責成兩個相關的單位在1個月內給我們一個報告，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，請國發會來說明一下。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：非常謝謝委員，您在上一個會期就很關心這件事，那在您關心之後，其實後來我有去找，我們有跟台積電這些單位談過，因為他們也要考慮到整個地能不能達到時程目標。第二個，跟郭部長講的一樣，就是他們希望是在科學園區，因為有時程跟環評時程的問題，所以是不是這樣子？就是我在下個禮拜帶著國科會跟經濟部的主管一起到您辦公室來討論細節。"],["賴委員惠員：好，期待。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：然後我們一起來規劃跟努力。"],["賴委員惠員：我想科技的最後一塊拼圖，這個就是S廊帶的最後一塊拼圖，有賴於院長、部長還有主委的協助，非常謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，我們一起努力。"],["賴委員惠員：那接著要跟院長共同來討論這一次凱米颱風造成我選區的重創，在7月下旬的凱米颱風對曾文溪以北整個溪北地區的產業造成重創，我在這裡也非常謝謝院長多次到我的選區裡頭來勘查災情，給我們這些受到重創的農民很大的溫暖。今天其實不管是你來看我們的高粱，還是我們邊堤被沖刷的這些淹水狀況，其實我們很多很多的市民都點滴在心頭，在這裡也非常謝謝院長。我們知道明年的總預算又多增加了一百五十幾億，當然我們看到、總統看到、你看到了、團隊也看到了，就是治水經費的不足，經濟部長請回，因為我最主要是要請教我們的農業部長。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：就是整個八掌溪潰堤，那在清淤的過程裡頭，我們知道持續又來了幾個大大小小的颱風，可是後續怎麼樣去完成它，我們一直希望農業部積極的來協助。院長，那邊剛好淹下去60公頃變成一塊地，全部都是平的，整個淤積都是平的，所以就是在這個治水的過程裡頭，農業部也很幫忙，農業部這個錢已經到位了，臺南市政府也積極的在搶修，那我是不是可以做一個建議？我們希望採用多元的治水手段，我們希望多管齊下來強化區域的防洪能量。對於這個防洪的能量，我想農業部長是內行的，在我們現行的作法裡頭，包括定期的清淤、河川的整治、堤岸的強化，我們印證在八掌溪這個防洪的措施裡頭，我們希望是不是可以增加大型的新流域？還是增設比較大的滯洪池？甚至是我們傳統防洪用的農塘（即埤塘）？這種在早期的時候，其實在農業裡面，這是最好的防治淹水的方式，有沒有比較好的方式可以把淹水的問題澈底解決呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，針對八掌溪這次的議題以後，造成這些農地流失，後續會重新整治的過程裡面，就像您剛才講的，就是說有一些滯洪池是在地的滯洪，是必須要的，避免影響到周遭這些居民的部分。另外，怎麼樣把水還沒有進到我們農田的時候把它分流？這個部分我想我們跟經濟部水利署已經在研議一些後續的規劃了。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝部長。我想你已經很快的進入了狀況，就是對於農業的淹水有一個積極的處理方式。針對低窪的地區，在這裡我要拜託院長責成農業部，針對低窪地區的滯洪池，還有就是防災用的農業的埤塘，是不是有可能把它變成我們多樣的防水、一個新的方法？在這裡要特別拜託院長。","接著再跟院長討論一個農業的議題──農業環境污染的問題。院長，你吃不吃臭豆腐？吃臭豆腐加不加青菜？"],["卓院長榮泰：加辣椒。"],["賴委員惠員：會加？我想這是因人而異，有些人認為臭豆腐很香，有些人則認為這個味道特別濃，不喜歡。工廠的廢氣跟畜牧業養殖場在空氣中產生的味道，哪一個比較臭？是工廠的廢氣臭？還是畜牧業養殖場的廢氣臭？其實不同的領域是沒有辦法來比較。今天就是要跟院長做一個探討，你知道在我們臺南的養豬場、養雞場是不是有空氣污染，還是設定在一個聞嗅師，他是用聞的。"],["卓院長榮泰：還是要科學的分析跟數據。"],["賴委員惠員：對，他沒有用……這個就存在一個很大的困難喔，部長，是不是這個樣子？你應該非常的清楚。"],["卓院長榮泰：我會請環保單位、環境部來督促，應該是要有科學的依據、大家的標準，不能用主觀啦！"],["賴委員惠員：好。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告一下，就是在今年年初的時候，其實秘書長已經有召開協調會，針對有關於農場的部分跟工廠的部分會做分離，不會用工廠的標準去處理這個議題。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝。在這裡就是要提醒院長，如果對於養豬、養雞的部分你是用工業的標準來罰款……"],["卓院長榮泰：這不應該。"],["賴委員惠員：對，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴惠員委員的質詢、謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，現在在二樓的是我們立法委員麥玉珍委員的志工及朋友團，麥委員本人帶來的，歡迎、歡迎大家！","報告院會，現在我們休息10分鐘，謝謝。","休息（16時23分）","繼續開會（16時33分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":19,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-11"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1137801_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}