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太少了啦"},{"start":315.051,"end":341.151,"text":"所以你看看喔他365公里他裝了320處我們1165我們裝了26處難怪到處土石流的時候到處有什麼災害的時候你們無法去確定所以我在這裡要鼓勵我們杜董我相信在這個部分就要我們吳政事來幫忙"},{"start":342.412,"end":364.966,"text":"這預算多背一點嘛好不好我這政治這個可以不可以去做這個部分這個決定沒問題我想我跟委員報告一下剛提到的台鐵現在26處是已經完成了大概現在還有23處在規劃進行中預計在明年的6月可以完成所以總共會19處但是這剛提到這兩個其實320跟26處兩個基準不太一樣"},{"start":369.068,"end":369.368,"text":"臺灣鐵路股份"},{"start":385.504,"end":403.575,"text":"但是但是吳先生我們說實在的我今天請你上來主要還是在政策你要去支持是預算該編的還是要編啦一定我坦白講啦是台鐵一下子要當大人不要那麼簡單是因為歷史上有他的缺陷在"},{"start":404.375,"end":423.458,"text":"所以要馬上站起來當然這個部分真的還是要有政策去幫忙那當然杜董事長他想要做事那政策一定要幫他另外一個杜董事長我們平交道的死亡還是居高不上"},{"start":425.708,"end":450.213,"text":"這個問題出在哪邊?來!平交道的改善前台灣省總共有260處請問現在我們花多少錢去改善?那改善的成果是怎麼樣?來!董事長目前我們所有在我們本線上的平交道我們都已經完成了這個障礙物偵測跟告警"},{"start":451.246,"end":480.131,"text":"那所以目前也正在執行中所以如果說平交道有這個義務、輕務平交道的範圍的話他是會主動告警司機員讓司機員...我知道啦那個董事長那個吳政志我特別提供一個資料給你啦你很簡單改善改到9月18號到25號一個禮拜在斗六的地方還死兩個人那怎麼改善啊"},{"start":481.075,"end":504.113,"text":"所以吳正智 這是齁 這個部分是你來管轄所以我要拜託你 要去盯啊 是要去盯啊 不要只有給預算 那其他都沒有進展這樣的話 台鐵就永遠台鐵我還是拜託你 高鐵它的緊結制度的這些設置"},{"start":506.298,"end":517.131,"text":"臺鐵要多多學習要多多學習那最後一個我特別要請教一下極端氣候你們現在如何面對來那個杜董事長"},{"start":518.587,"end":546.361,"text":"極端氣候就像我們花蓮那邊花蓮那個地方欸動不動就山崩動不動就土磁流這個怎麼防止是針對極端氣候其實我們有做一個全面性的一個調查跟研究那包括邊坡包括這個溪流我們在這個我都知道啦你如何去防範啦這個我都知道所以有什麼新作法啦"},{"start":546.901,"end":570.651,"text":"對,所以針對這個極端氣候包括我們在我們軌道位置的這個範圍內我們要增設阻隔,或者是我們要改善這個橋樑,或者是我們要再加強我們的這個道景杜董事長,華仁的人德站阿,他已經重復再重復,你們改進又不改進一直沒有辦法"},{"start":572.031,"end":589.178,"text":"還有我們道安會我們林組委特別要去監督一下我相信你們有很多給他們建議如果真的他們都不改善你要跟吳政志講一下啊要大家去監督啊好不好好最後一個我們台鐵的漲價"},{"start":592.299,"end":610.073,"text":"其實沒有品質你漲一塊錢老百姓都不服氣所以我還要建議你們董事會要有公司經營之理念一定要有品質才有價錢所以你不要動不動啊就是說啊我虧損所以我要漲價"},{"start":612.074,"end":641.004,"text":"但是問題你沒有品質沒有安全你漲一塊錢我也不服氣啊不是嗎我坐你的車搞不好生命會不保欸所以這個杜董事長我希望你們好好的去討論一下齁最後我還在問一個問題我們新型的R20名的新車為什麼6月份剛交車10月份就出包來杜董"},{"start":642.383,"end":667.629,"text":"這一輛R206其實還沒有交他是在試車的這個情形之下他有一些故障那這個部分我們會責成我們的那個製造商好 針對這個問題因為時間的關係拜託你的那個說明疑問報告給我們交通委員會包括我在內好不好好 謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:44:12 - 09:55:22","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就「臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":184,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時44分）好，主席，請伍政次。"],["主席（許委員智傑代）：好，請次長。"],["林委員國成：還有高鐵鄭總經理、臺鐵杜董事長。"],["主席：好，高鐵、臺鐵。"],["林委員國成：還有國家運輸安全委員會的林主任委員。"],["主席：請運安會林主委。"],["林委員國成：好，政次。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["林委員國成：今天特別針對鐵道安全的問題，我必須給幾位提醒一下，人為的疏失比天災還可怕，交通的不安全會讓人民家破人亡，天災無法抵抗，但是人禍是不可以原諒的，伍政次，你同意我這種說法嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：同意。"],["林委員國成：所以我們今天的主題很簡單，就是我們鐵道的安全問題，現在的鐵道就只有兩個，一個臺鐵、一個高鐵，當然今天我們也不是來指責臺鐵杜董事長，臺鐵剛剛才從國營改為公司的經營型態，目的就是要讓臺鐵脫胎換骨、要有基於安全等等的理念，剛才我們立委同仁都已經講得很清楚，改為公司不是改一改後就讓你們隨便亂搞，不是！這不但要有公司的經營，還要有一些比較活潑的建設，不要因為是政府機關，而是公司化後當然會有所差別，所以在這個部分，我鼓勵臺鐵公司要有一番作為，所以在這裡我要特別建議政次，政次管政策，但是政策不支持，臺鐵公司就無法大刀闊斧，做好保護人民安全的鐵道運輸，所以我特別來請教，而我也非常重視，從一開始進來立法院，我就一直在講監視器、監視系統的問題，因為我們大家都知道，不管是高鐵也好，不管是臺鐵也好，我們都是要穿山越嶺的，所以山坡的監視非常重要，可是我調過資料後發現一個問題，也就是說，以臺鐵跟高鐵來做比較的話，杜董事長，說實在的，臺鐵真的要改進，雖然高鐵現在經營的就只有350公里，鄭總經理，你們現在設置的DWS、天然災害告警系統有多少？"],["鄭董事長光遠：跟委員報告，我們有各種的天然災害告警系統，譬如說，有下雨的、有風的、有地震的……"],["林委員國成：對，我知道，這個都包括在內。"],["鄭董事長光遠：是。"],["林委員國成：我給你資料，你們的350公里當中，裝有320個監視器，這個我必須要肯定你們，因為你們的速度快，從一開始經營，就是以高速、快速的鐵路在經營，所以在這個部分當然比較嚴謹；可是臺鐵的部分，在經營的1,065公里當中，我們的監視器有多少？請杜董事長。"],["杜董事長微：目前邊坡告警的部分，我們叫做落石告警，這有26處。"],["林委員國成：對，太少了啦！它365公里，裝了320處；臺鐵1,065公里，只裝了26處，難怪有土石流的時候，到處有什麼災害的時候，你們無法去確定，所以我在這裡要鼓勵杜董，我相信在這個部分就要伍政次來幫忙，這部分預算多編一點，好不好？伍政次，可不可以去做這個部分？"],["伍次長勝園：這個絕對沒問題，我跟委員報告一下，剛剛提到的臺鐵現在有26處是已經完成的，大概還有23處在規劃進行中，預計明年6月可以完成，所以總共會有49處。","剛剛提到的320處跟26處，兩個基準不太一樣，它還有包括雨量等等的，而我們這26處，包括未來的23處，總共49處……"],["林委員國成：是每一樣都有？"],["伍次長勝園：它只有邊坡而已，所以如果全部加起來，我相信不只那些，畢竟它也有地震的，還有所謂雨量告警等等都有。"],["林委員國成：但是伍政次，說實在的，我今天請你上來，主要還是在政策上你要去支持，預算該編的還是要編。"],["伍次長勝園：一定。"],["林委員國成：坦白講，臺鐵一下子要轉大人沒那麼簡單，因為歷史上有它的缺陷在，所以要馬上站起來，當然這個部分真的還是要有政策去幫忙，所以杜董事長他想要做事，政策一定要幫他。","另外，杜董事長，我們平交道死亡事件還是居高不下，這個問題出在哪邊？平交道的改善上，全臺灣省總共有260處，請問現在我們花多少錢去改善？改善的成果是怎麼樣？請董事長。"],["杜董事長微：目前所有本線上的平交道，我們都已經完成障礙物偵測跟告警，目前也正在執行中，所以如果有異物侵入平交道的範圍，它會主動告警司機員，讓司機員……"],["林委員國成：我知道啦！董事長、伍政次，我特別提供一個資料給你，很簡單，有改善，但從9月18號到25號，一個禮拜之內，在斗六的地方還死了兩個人，那是什麼改善？所以伍政次，這個部分是歸你管轄，所以我拜託你要去盯啦！不要只給預算，其他都沒有進展，這樣的話臺鐵就永遠是臺鐵，我還是拜託你，高鐵相關警覺制度的設置，臺鐵要多多學習。","最後一個，我特別要請教一下，關於極端氣候，你們現在如何面對？就像我們花蓮那個地方動不動就山崩，動不動就土石流，這個怎麼防止？請董事長。"],["杜董事長微：針對極端氣候，其實我們有做一個全面性的調查跟研究，包括邊坡，包括溪流……"],["林委員國成：這個我都知道，你要如何去防範？你有什麼新作法？"],["杜董事長微：所以針對極端氣候，包括在軌道位置的範圍內，我們要增設阻隔；或者是我們要改善橋梁；或者是要再加強我們的告警……"],["林委員國成：杜董事長，花蓮的仁德站，它已經重複再重複了，你們又不改進，所以一直沒有辦法解決，還有我們道安會林主委請特別要去監督一下，我相信你們有給他們很多建議，如果他們真的都不改善，你要跟伍政次講一下，大家一起來監督，好不好？","最後一個，我們臺鐵的漲價，其實沒有品質，你漲一塊錢，老百姓都不服氣，所以我還是要建議，你們董事會要有公司經營之理念，一定要有品質才有價錢，你不要動不動就說我虧損所以我要漲價，但問題是你沒有品質、沒有安全，你漲一塊錢我也不服氣啊！不是嗎？我坐你的車搞不好生命會不保欸！所以杜董事長，我希望你們好好討論一下。","最後我還要再問一個問題，我們新型的R200的新車為什麼6月份剛交車，10月份就出包？杜董。"],["杜董事長微：這一輛R206其實還沒有交，它是在試車的情形之下有一些故障，這個部分我們會責成製造商……"],["林委員國成：好，因為時間的關係，針對這個問題，拜託你提出一份說明的報告給我們交通委員會，包括我在內，好不好？"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["林委員國成：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。我們請陳素月召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-5","speakers":["陳素月","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖偉翔","徐富癸","何欣純","蔡其昌","廖先翔","黃建賓","鄭天財Sra 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