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次長好次長我們今天來關心鐵道的安全台灣大概一個最危險的就是平交道那我想請教杜局長我們台鐵為了改善鐵道的安全在2021年我們3月決標了一個1424個平交道的遮斷基了"},{"start":44.406,"end":47.068,"text":"這個案子我們的合約的規定是在明年的7月"},{"start":65.9,"end":79.296,"text":"現在正在加緊的建置中那目前已經有做的聽說可以通過驗收的只有30%目前已經裝上去裝上去就是在使用的接近400具你有通過驗收嗎"},{"start":81.08,"end":95.389,"text":"沒有,這個,這不是驗收這個是裝上去他就在使用對,可以用,可以用嗎?你不驗收你怎麼知道可不可以用?不是驗收是我們有去驗證他的功能都確保了才能有達到安全嗎?有"},{"start":96.452,"end":119.6,"text":"那這1424個裝上去希望可以改善我們平交道的一個建築安全是 對不對因為這是台鐵第一次啊臺鐵自己寫規格全機國產化的對要全面更新鐵道這段機對這是國產化的這是國產化另外我想請教那臺南的鐵路地下化聽說要再延期"},{"start":122.093,"end":128.33,"text":"臺南鐵路地下化工程會延宕主要是因為挖出了所謂的那個遺跡"},{"start":130.168,"end":157.254,"text":"就是有一些地下的歷史文物是不是這樣又挖出了古蹟對跟我們報告確實這個臺南鐵路地下化受了影響其中一大部分是所謂的遺址的關係就是文質的關係那現在已經處理差不多現在我們的後年就是在115年我們確定一定可以來通測這我想我們會掌握沒有問題臺南鐵路地下化工程測試應該也很少是"},{"start":159.514,"end":183.795,"text":"那因為挖出了大概20幾個遺址,遺跡啦,古跡啦,對不對?對那台南今年建成400年啦,因為地下隨便挖都會有古跡啦那遇到了我們就是解決嘛,只是希望這個速度效率上那現在因為挖出了古跡而停工多久?供期停工"},{"start":185.388,"end":211.547,"text":"跟委員報告我們整個沿線總共挖出來20處每一個地方受影響的程度不同最長的是到26個月26個月兩年停工兩年那現在全部復工了嗎?都可以復工了嗎?我們在8月底已經全數處理完畢那最主要是東門路橋這個前後兩側那這個地方已經處理完畢然後現在全數的在進行工程的開發當中"},{"start":212.648,"end":231.994,"text":"也就是說挖出了20處的遺址、古蹟等等,現在到8月處理完畢,現在復工了嗎?全面復工了,對不對?是的那因為你這樣子停工,你看有的停兩年,那也造成工程經費,因為計畫要修正,工程經費會大增我聽說你們現在預估經費會增加76億多,這部分有確定嗎?"},{"start":235.575,"end":255.843,"text":"是的,我們已經報三修計畫到行政院在今年7月的時候現在正在根據國安會意見修正當中經費有問題嗎?目前看起來應該經費並沒有重大問題這位總經費由336億,臺南市的鐵路地下化市區的鐵路地下化工程由336億可能會增加到413億是的,413億"},{"start":259.891,"end":278.56,"text":"希望能夠工程能夠圓滿順利這台南市民期待非常久了對市區的交通的改善非常大是的我們以115年年底為這個最重要的目標來努力所以現在預計大概第一階段通車會到什麼時候115年年底2026年年底全線全面完工全線要到119"},{"start":288.843,"end":289.604,"text":"主要是因為用地的關係"},{"start":303.725,"end":321.378,"text":"希望能夠儘速,儘速能夠,現在已經全線復工了,希望能夠儘速完成。這個臺南鐵路地交化對於臺南的市區的整體發展以及交通安全這個是非常重要的。但除了這個以外,我們後面還有永康的鐵路地交化的延伸,是不是這樣。"},{"start":322.859,"end":326.442,"text":"另外還有一個就是新式的鐵路高加化這個部分目前呢?"},{"start":342.703,"end":357.317,"text":"這個現在還在臺南市政府還沒有報到交通部這邊來那這個經費在交通部也已經同意了同意要執行這個計畫嘛臺南市政府送上來沒有還沒有我們希望臺南市政府也盡快把這個計畫修正確定後能夠送上來"},{"start":358.118,"end":377.563,"text":"所以你如果鐵路地下化從台南市區然後到永康再繼續延伸整個永康全線也鐵路地下化然後到新市它就開始高價了讓你市區永康和新市都不會再有鐵路平交道了也不會再有什麼路橋或地下寒凍等等"},{"start":378.923,"end":402.117,"text":"對於交通的改善,尤其是南科,你知道南科就在永康路的地方,就在新市,這也會有很大的改善。另外就是仁德,仁德的立體鐵路高架,這個地方也爭取多年,這個地方市政府應該也在做可能性評估,就仁德的鐵路高架,還有上化車站的改建,"},{"start":403.418,"end":428.654,"text":"至於上化未來的鐵路就是說所謂的鐵路整體高架這可能是另外一個計畫但是說上化火車站因為現在前後站沒有路可以通了大家知道這南科全世界最重要的半導體生產基地上化火車站前後站沒有路了只能走地下道這個地方趕快改建好不好因為時間的關係請教一下高鐵的政總經理"},{"start":432.011,"end":437.036,"text":"委員好總經理大家知道臺南這幾年快速發展"},{"start":438.24,"end":466.194,"text":"尤其臺南除了南科以外現在包括沙崙科學園區幾乎很多我們國家重要的研究單位都進駐在這個地方那明天總統也會到沙崙去主持中研院南部分院的正式開幕現在AI生態園區也在陽明交大什麼綠能研究單位幾乎國家最重要的"},{"start":467.194,"end":492.953,"text":"單位都進入在這裡那本席我們也爭取到了蘇華瀑蘇華瀑的治安院蘇華瀑的社會產業發展署也會設在沙崙所以現在全台灣的車站高鐵站成長率最高的就台南站近站成長率全國第二只輸給南港但初站就是目的地是台南站的成長率也是全國最高"},{"start":495.187,"end":520.634,"text":"總經理知道這個數字吧?確實是有很大幅的成長很多人都到台南去了那你台南站的進出現在原來的設計我相信已經遠遠超乎你當時設計的這個站體了所以現在每次那個旅客到站進出都要排隊排很長因為你所有的上下月台只有一個小小的守護堤"},{"start":522.165,"end":539.407,"text":"我不知道高鐵未來有沒有提早因應的一個規劃你像台中高鐵站有4個守護梯上下台南高鐵站只有小小一個可能當時啊當年高鐵通車的時候也沒有把台南站當作什麼重點你知道吧"},{"start":542.034,"end":565.485,"text":"當年台南高鐵站設在什麼地方各位知道吧沙崙沙崙旁邊就是台南監獄啊什麼地方會設監獄就那個偏僻到不能再偏僻的地方才會設監獄高鐵站就設在旁邊啊但是也因為這樣啊讓現在台南站有高鐵有一個很大的發展腹地就是附近的土地非常非常大造成現在反而當時的"},{"start":568.387,"end":568.968,"text":"臺南高鐵在未來高鐵公司有沒有什麼樣的因應計畫?"},{"start":581.716,"end":608.272,"text":"委員報告確實我們人成長很多那事實上我們也因為這樣的需要我們在班次方面所以一直在增加尤其是這個所謂台南的直達車這部分我們就做了很多的增班對那至於手扶梯這個部分的話以目前來講確實在尖峰時代是比較擁擠不過目前看來還是可以用但是如果委員有這樣的一個建議的話我想我們"},{"start":609.273,"end":609.493,"text":"主席"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:07:20 - 10:17:49","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就「臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":262,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時7分）本席邀請我們交通部伍次長、鐵道局楊局長。"],["主席：請伍次長、請楊局長。"],["林委員俊憲：還有我們臺鐵的杜董事長。"],["主席：請杜微董事長。"],["林委員俊憲：以及高鐵的鄭總經理。"],["主席：請鄭總經理。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：次長好。次長，我們今天來關心鐵道的安全，臺灣大概一個最危險的就是平交道，我想請教杜董事長，我們臺鐵為了改善鐵道的安全，在2021年3月，我們決標了一個1,424個平交道的遮斷機的案子，對不對？"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["林委員俊憲：號稱是智慧型的平交道的遮斷機，最先進的，1,424個，照理講應該要完成了吧。"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告……"],["林委員俊憲：現在聽說完成驗收的只有3成。"],["杜董事長微：沒有、沒有、沒有。"],["林委員俊憲：現在是怎樣？"],["杜董事長微：報告委員，這個案子我們合約的規定是在明年7月，現在正在加緊建置中。"],["林委員俊憲：目前已經有做的，聽說可以通過驗收的只有30%。"],["杜董事長微：目前已經裝上去，就是在使用的接近四百具。"],["林委員俊憲：有通過驗收嗎？"],["杜董事長微：沒有，這個不是驗收，這個是裝上去，它就在使用。"],["林委員俊憲：就可以用嗎？"],["杜董事長微：對，可以用，沒有問題。"],["林委員俊憲：可以用嗎？你不驗收你怎麼知道可不可以用？"],["杜董事長微：不是驗收，是我們有去驗證它的功能都確保了，才能……"],["林委員俊憲：有達到安全嗎？"],["杜董事長微：有。"],["林委員俊憲：這1,424個裝上去，希望可以改善我們平交道的進出安全。"],["杜董事長微：是，可以。"],["林委員俊憲：因為這是臺鐵第一次自己寫規格，全機國產化的。"],["杜董事長微：對。"],["林委員俊憲：要全面更新鐵道遮斷機。"],["杜董事長微：對，這是國產化的。"],["林委員俊憲：另外我想請教，聽說臺南的鐵路地下化要再延期，臺南鐵路地下化工程之所以會延宕，主要是因為挖出了所謂的遺跡，就是有一些地下的歷史文物，是不是這樣？因為挖出了古蹟。"],["伍次長勝園：對。跟委員報告，確實臺南鐵路地下化受了影響，其中有一大部分是所謂的遺址的關係，就是文資的關係，現在已經處理差不多了，在後（115）年，我們確定一定可以通車，我想我們會掌握，沒有問題。"],["林委員俊憲：臺南鐵路地下化工程次長應該也很熟啦！"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["林委員俊憲：因為挖出了大概二十幾個遺跡、古蹟，對不對？"],["伍次長勝園：對。"],["林委員俊憲：臺南今年建城400年，地下隨便挖都會有古蹟，當然遇到了，我們就是解決嘛。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["林委員俊憲：只是希望這個速度、效率上……現在因為挖出古蹟而停工多久？工期停工。"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，我們整個沿線總共挖出來20處。"],["林委員俊憲：20處遺跡。"],["楊局長正君：每一個地方受影響的程度不同，最長的是到26個月。"],["林委員俊憲：26個月？2年啦，停工2年。"],["楊局長正君：是。"],["林委員俊憲：現在全部復工了嗎？都可以復工了嗎？"],["楊局長正君：我們在8月底已經全數處理完畢，最主要是東門陸橋前後兩側，這個地方已經處理完畢，現在全數在進行工程的開挖當中。"],["林委員俊憲：也就是說，挖出了20處的遺跡、遺址、古蹟等等，到8月處理完畢，現在復工了嘛。"],["楊局長正君：是的。"],["林委員俊憲：全面復工了，對不對？"],["楊局長正君：是的。"],["林委員俊憲：因為你這樣子停工，你看有的停2年，也造成工程經費……因為計畫要修正，工程經費也會大增，聽說你們現在預估經費會增加七十六億多，這部分有確定嗎？"],["楊局長正君：是的，我們已經報三修計畫到行政院，在今年7月的時候，現在正在根據國發會的意見修正當中。"],["林委員俊憲：經費有問題嗎？"],["楊局長正君：目前看起來經費應該並沒有重大的問題。"],["林委員俊憲：所以總經費由336億……臺南市的鐵路地下化，市區的鐵路地下化工程，可能會由336億增加到413億？"],["楊局長正君：是的，413億。"],["林委員俊憲：希望工程能夠圓滿順利，臺南市民期待非常久，這對市區的交通改善非常大。"],["楊局長正君：是的，我們以115年年底為最重要的目標來努力。"],["林委員俊憲：所以現在預計第一階段通車會到什麼時候？"],["楊局長正君：115年年底。"],["林委員俊憲：115年年底即2026年底。"],["楊局長正君：是的。"],["林委員俊憲：全線全面完工？"],["楊局長正君：全線要到118、119年，後面還有2個車站。"],["林委員俊憲：算120年好了，因為還有2個車站──林森站和南臺南站要做。"],["楊局長正君：是，主要是因為用地的關係。"],["林委員俊憲：要到民國120年（2031年）。"],["楊局長正君：是。"],["林委員俊憲：你看這個工程拖了這麼久，我們希望能夠儘速，現在已經全線復工了，希望能夠儘速完成。"],["楊局長正君：好。"],["林委員俊憲：臺南鐵路地下化對臺南的市區的整體發展以及交通安全是非常重要的，除了這個以外，我們後面還有鐵路地下化延伸至永康，是不是這樣？"],["伍次長勝園：永康的部分我們已經送到行政院去……"],["林委員俊憲：有到行政院了嘛。"],["伍次長勝園：對。"],["林委員俊憲：這個在前部長的時候有，包括經費、包括計畫都已經有確定了嘛。"],["伍次長勝園：對、對。"],["林委員俊憲：在李孟諺部長的時候，是不是這樣？"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["林委員俊憲：另外還有一個就是新市的鐵路高架化，目前這個部分呢？"],["楊局長正君：這個現在還在臺南市政府，還沒有報到交通部。"],["林委員俊憲：這個經費在交通部也已經同意了，有同意要執行這個計畫嘛，臺南市政府送上來了沒有？"],["楊局長正君：還沒有。"],["林委員俊憲：好，我們希望臺南市政府儘快把這個計畫修正確定後能夠送上來。所以如果鐵路地下化，從臺南市區，然後到永康再繼續延伸，整個永康全線也鐵路地下化，然後到新市，它就開始高架了，讓市區、永康和新市都不會再有鐵路平交道，也不會再有什麼陸橋或地下涵洞等等，對於交通的改善，尤其南科，你知道南科就在新市嘛，這個也會有很大的改善。","另外就是仁德的鐵路立體化、高架化，這個地方也爭取多年了，這個地方臺南市政府應該也在做可行性評估，就是仁德的鐵路高架化，還有善化車站的改建，至於善化未來的鐵路，就是所謂的鐵路整體高架，這可能是另外一個計畫，但是善化火車站現在前後站沒有路可以通，大家都知道，南科是全世界最重要的半導體生產基地，現在善化火車站前後站沒有路了，只能走地下道，這個地方趕快改建好不好？"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["林委員俊憲：因為時間的關係，我要請教一下高鐵的鄭總經理。"],["鄭總經理光遠：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：總經理，大家都知道，臺南這幾年快速發展，尤其臺南除了南科以外，現在包括沙崙科學園區，幾乎很多我們國家重要的研究單位都進駐在這個地方，明天總統也會到沙崙去主持中研院南部分院的正式開幕，現在AI生態園區也在，陽明交大、什麼綠能研究單位等等，幾乎國家最重要的單位都進駐在這裡。本席也爭取到數發部的資安院、數發部的數位產業發展署也會設在沙崙，所以現在全臺灣的高鐵站成長率最高的就是臺南站，進站成長率全國第二，只輸給南港，但出站的成長率，就是目的地是臺南站的，成長率也是全國最高，總經理知道這個數字吧？"],["鄭總經理光遠：確實是有很大幅的成長。"],["林委員俊憲：很多人都到臺南去，原來臺南站進出的設計，我相信現在已經遠遠超乎當時設計的站體，所以現在每次旅客到站，進出都要排隊排很長，因為所有上下月臺只有一個小小的手扶梯，我不知道高鐵未來有沒有提早因應的規劃？你像臺中高鐵站有四個手扶梯上下，臺南高鐵站只有小小一個，可能當年高鐵通車的時候，也沒有把臺南站當成什麼重點，你知道吧？"],["鄭總經理光遠：跟委員報告……"],["林委員俊憲：當年臺南高鐵站設在什麼地方，各位知道吧？沙崙，沙崙旁邊就是臺南監獄，什麼地方會設監獄？就是那個偏僻到不能再偏僻的地方才會設監獄，高鐵站就設在旁邊，但是也因為這樣，讓現在高鐵臺南站有一個很大的發展腹地，附近的土地非常大，當時很偏僻的一個設址地點，反而造成後來有一個發展的大空間，但現在進出站人口這麼多，請問臺南高鐵站，未來高鐵公司有沒有什麼樣的因應計畫？"],["鄭總經理光遠：跟委員報告，確實人成長很多，實質上我們也因為這樣的需要，在班次方面是一直在增加，尤其是所謂臺南的直達車這部分，我們就做了很多的增班。"],["林委員俊憲：有，我們有看過。"],["鄭總經理光遠：對，至於手扶梯這個部分，以目前來講，確實在尖峰時段是比較擁擠，不過目前看來還是可以用，但是如果委員有這樣的建議，我想我們很誠心地繼續檢討，看看有沒有檢討空間……"],["林委員俊憲：臺南站它每一年成長率都會全國最高，現在進出月台，你看臺中四個手扶梯出入，臺南只有一個，這部分你應該要有一個及早規劃，好不好？"],["鄭總經理光遠：好，謝謝。"],["林委員俊憲：本席因為時間的關係，謝謝次長、謝謝各位。"],["伍次長勝園：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","我們接下來邀請魯明哲召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-5","speakers":["陳素月","李昆澤","許智傑","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖偉翔","徐富癸","何欣純","蔡其昌","廖先翔","黃建賓","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","陳冠廷","翁曉玲","黃國昌","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","游顥","邱若華","劉建國","林沛祥","葉元之"],"page_start":31,"meetingDate":["2024-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1138201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股\n份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就「臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138201_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}