{"error":false,"id":["155466"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":155466,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155466","日期":"2024-10-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-2-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-10-15T09:32:56+08:00","結束時間":"2024-10-15T09:48:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:39","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"委員名稱":"林德福","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3a3ab458bd335e94eec142da249f94e73624c79fb42d37a12267009e027ac94d8543b75889b48ec65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3.03471875,"end":5.464718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.835968750000001,"end":6.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6.814718750000001,"end":8.265968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.35034375,"end":9.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.801593750000002,"end":11.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.344093750000003,"end":31.266593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31.772843750000003,"end":39.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.518468750000004,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.45909375,"end":43.399718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.619093750000005,"end":46.690343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.96034375,"end":50.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.95971875,"end":56.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.304718750000006,"end":62.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.26159375,"end":66.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.05846875,"end":70.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.39971875,"end":84.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":82.90409375,"end":83.14034375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.38909375,"end":94.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.17659375000001,"end":95.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.53909375,"end":98.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.32346875,"end":100.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.34846875000001,"end":103.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.82909375000001,"end":107.65971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.03096875,"end":111.64221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.96284375,"end":113.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.24534375,"end":118.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.69596875,"end":127.85909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.24721875,"end":137.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.08534375000002,"end":152.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.66534375,"end":170.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":170.85659375,"end":177.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":178.61909375000002,"end":179.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.69909375,"end":182.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.38221875000002,"end":183.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.28909375,"end":185.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.41971875000002,"end":190.83659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.05596875,"end":196.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.19846875000002,"end":203.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.15534375000001,"end":205.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.46721875,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.28534375,"end":224.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.00846875000002,"end":229.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.78409375,"end":235.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":233.32784375000003,"end":234.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.03221875000003,"end":247.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.62221875,"end":239.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.53659375,"end":249.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.62909375,"end":251.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.80596875,"end":255.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.12596875,"end":256.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.19346875,"end":259.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.02409375,"end":264.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.63096875,"end":270.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":270.82409375000003,"end":280.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.42596875000004,"end":290.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.34846875,"end":291.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.12034375,"end":296.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.55846875000003,"end":297.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.60471875,"end":308.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.34971875,"end":322.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.64721875000004,"end":323.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":323.60909375,"end":324.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.58784375000005,"end":330.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.66284375000004,"end":338.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.70784375,"end":343.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.39534375,"end":341.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":343.77471875000003,"end":353.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.93346875000003,"end":356.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":356.63346875,"end":361.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.67471875,"end":363.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":362.84346875,"end":362.89409375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":362.89409375,"end":363.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":363.43409375000005,"end":363.55221875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":363.55221875,"end":365.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":364.00784375,"end":370.35284375000003,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":370.45409375,"end":408.69284375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.10721875,"end":403.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.31784375,"end":405.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.69284375,"end":411.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":411.61221875,"end":414.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":415.20659375,"end":415.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.19784375,"end":419.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.84721875,"end":421.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":422.09159375,"end":422.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":423.44159375000004,"end":427.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.06534375,"end":442.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.43034375,"end":453.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.51721875000004,"end":452.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.41159375,"end":474.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.06221875000006,"end":475.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.73721875,"end":476.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.88471875000005,"end":477.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":478.09971875,"end":479.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":480.04034375000003,"end":488.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.95034375000006,"end":494.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":494.82284375,"end":498.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":499.14284375000005,"end":503.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.17159375000006,"end":508.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.40721875,"end":512.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.2165937500001,"end":517.5872187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.8403437500001,"end":519.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.13534375,"end":521.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.3503437500001,"end":525.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.9909687500001,"end":527.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":527.93159375,"end":530.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.9015937500001,"end":542.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":542.0053437500001,"end":544.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":544.2834687500001,"end":545.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.5828437499999,"end":546.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":547.03409375,"end":547.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":548.68784375,"end":550.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":551.0334687500001,"end":552.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.2778437500001,"end":555.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.74159375,"end":563.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.4409687500001,"end":566.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.4740937500001,"end":567.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.68471875,"end":576.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.53159375,"end":582.3703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":582.48846875,"end":591.7022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":592.0903437500001,"end":592.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":592.9509687500001,"end":596.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":596.96721875,"end":610.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":610.5347187500001,"end":620.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.87909375,"end":624.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.7265937500001,"end":628.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.7009687500001,"end":637.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.0972187500001,"end":634.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.3953437499999,"end":639.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.72846875,"end":644.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.9934687500001,"end":647.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.1028437500001,"end":647.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.0434687500001,"end":664.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.7678437500001,"end":657.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":664.7878437500001,"end":666.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":667.0490937500001,"end":668.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.9897187500001,"end":679.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":679.2665937500001,"end":690.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.1297187499999,"end":699.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.39034375,"end":703.7353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.93784375,"end":705.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.18221875,"end":709.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.31659375,"end":713.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":713.6240937500002,"end":717.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":717.87659375,"end":722.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":722.38221875,"end":724.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":725.20034375,"end":727.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.3559687500001,"end":736.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":736.7934687500001,"end":737.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":737.73846875,"end":741.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":742.05846875,"end":743.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":743.9484687500001,"end":759.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":759.76034375,"end":762.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":763.4053437500002,"end":768.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.3159687500001,"end":773.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.8172187499999,"end":776.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.2765937500001,"end":777.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":778.1540937500001,"end":779.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員德福","start":779.5209687500001,"end":786.0347187500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員德福","start":786.23721875,"end":791.5190937500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":791.5190937500001,"end":793.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員德福","start":791.5359687499999,"end":791.58659375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":793.9153437500001,"end":794.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":795.09659375,"end":806.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":807.33096875,"end":811.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":811.0603437500001,"end":812.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":812.1909687500001,"end":812.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":813.1528437500001,"end":814.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.1440937500001,"end":818.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":818.6540937500001,"end":825.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.6909687500001,"end":834.9890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":835.46159375,"end":838.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":838.7859687500002,"end":844.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":844.3547187500001,"end":850.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":850.36221875,"end":851.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":851.88096875,"end":852.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":853.14659375,"end":889.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":889.2422187500001,"end":897.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":898.2365937500001,"end":899.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":899.3672187500001,"end":902.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":903.4172187500001,"end":904.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":904.5478437500001,"end":905.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":905.9653437500001,"end":908.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":908.14221875,"end":918.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":918.85784375,"end":923.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":925.0678437500001,"end":925.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":927.95346875,"end":929.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":930.92346875,"end":934.4165937500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.153,"end":10.436,"text":"謝謝大會主席江副院長是不是請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":21.38,"end":49.806,"text":"林委員好委員長你好 院長我請教因為財政收支劃分法25年來 絲毫未動那立法院在參議會在這個上個會期決議要求財政部必須在會期開始前提出草案那我請問院長為什麼到現在還看不到行政院修正的版本送進立法院那這裡面到底是財政部"},{"start":51.367,"end":61.717,"text":"現代執行職務還是行政院下令要求財政部無需要來提案所以說到現在還看不到行政院的版本?"},{"start":61.717,"end":62.638,"text":"院長你有什麼看法?"},{"start":63.591,"end":80.889,"text":"報告委員我們在院內經過充分的討論我一直認為現在的財政收支發分法我們來執行是最有把握的而且根據這部法律過去幾年當中我們對地方政府的任何的補助金額是持續在增加的詳細數字我再請部長說明"},{"start":82.29,"end":102.877,"text":"所以目前這樣實施下去 地方任何的重大建設 中央持續來加以協助都成為一種在財政合作上面的常態 也符合我們的財政紀律但是在過去我所看的 並不然啊 不是你所講的啊因為地方跟中央 為什麼說地方一直要爭"},{"start":103.877,"end":132.233,"text":"因為中央長權又長錢所以說才要才化法而且讓地方的政府大家商討大概有一個額度比較適當的額度但是而且裁委會也在上個會期有做這樣的一個決議但是行政院認為不必因為25年來其實25年裡面有藍有綠都執政過但是才化法幾乎"},{"start":133.033,"end":139.338,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":152.788,"end":177.404,"text":"行政院希望以中央用全國的高度以角度來看才能夠兼顧公平性合理性以及維護中央政府財務韌性等多重考量下來進行相關的法制規劃及調整那我請問院長以您的高度來看到底是由誰來提案才能夠達到真正的"},{"start":178.663,"end":179.784,"text":"他在幹什麼呢?"},{"start":185.741,"end":214.299,"text":"報告委員多年來中央地方的財政的合作一直呈現出很正面的價值現在各縣市地方政府的債務比例也持續在下降表示中央除了在工建計畫上面比如說捷運還有很多的這個科學園區的設計都是中央全力在支持的更有很多的道路系統交通系統跟防洪治水的預算都是中央全力在做而且相當多是跨縣市區域性的在做"},{"start":214.719,"end":218.32,"text":"所以說那個 院長你的看法還是中央來分配就對了 這不是分配 中央地方的財政合作 因為齁"},{"start":242.41,"end":270.113,"text":"以維護財政的韌性是中央政府還是地方政府還是財政部還是執政黨立委還是在野黨的立委因您看呢?沒有,中央地方是財政的合作並不是我只是分配而已院長,20多年來時空環境變遷那中央地方政府經歷多次政黨的輪替那為了鞏固執政權力充滿算計下的修法讓財化法"},{"start":272.415,"end":291.248,"text":"不是,報告委員,過去這麼多年來,我們透過一般補助,透過統籌分配稅款,以及各種交通跟其他各項的公共建設的補助,跟地方的合作"},{"start":292.145,"end":308.512,"text":"我想部長可以很清楚的數字來跟委員說明而且這個持續增加的那我請問院長難道一直沒有找到共識就能夠作為財政部不提出修法的主要理由還是擔心修法後出現中央與地方政府政治權利"},{"start":309.292,"end":311.473,"text":"完全不是,我們正在尋求最高的共識。 我剛剛有說過了,我很欣慰看到"},{"start":330.986,"end":332.467,"text":"院長本席認為說有權就要有責"},{"start":347.635,"end":361.435,"text":"那有則就有法可循。 那行政院應該要逆向的思考, 重整修法邏輯的思維。 我相信許多顧慮都可以迎刃而解。 您的看法呢?"},{"start":364.152,"end":377.121,"text":"有權當然要有責啊當然財政跟事權必須要劃一但是在現行雖然沒有修但是透過中央統籌跟一般性補助款113年的金額達到6356億比105年成長了46.7%而在114年更會增加900億"},{"start":385.347,"end":388.888,"text":"因為中央好地方才能也一起好這樣才是我們最終的一個目的那共識是一定要有的沒有共識提出修法還是不會有結果我相信這一次整個財政委員會絕對會把這個要是說"},{"start":417.261,"end":438.357,"text":"這個行政院不提出修法的版本那財委會現在做的一個決定到時候一定會送到院會來做最後的決定我認為要是由行政院來提出版本是最適當那既然行政院不提出版本我相信財委會最後一定會討論出一個結論來"},{"start":440.979,"end":467.594,"text":"我希望還是經過大院內部的協商以及兩院之間談這個事情行政院不是沒有版本現行的版本我一直強調是現在是最好的版本我們看不到更好的版本 那我就尊重你那個院長臺灣消費者物價指數年增率已經連續3年喔超過2%以往外界習慣定為2%為通膨的一個警戒線那央行解釋臺灣屬於"},{"start":469.035,"end":469.055,"text":"請問院長﹖"},{"start":495.779,"end":519.073,"text":"數據發生變化是代表國內通盆情況緩和還是只是短期現象的一個反饋?報告委員數據當然是一個非常科學的計算跟統計但是過去從COVID-19之後一直到世界這個戰爭的發生到底卻造成了很多原物料的上漲我們也必須承受這個部分但是相對的來看"},{"start":520.128,"end":522.349,"text":"其實齁,你沒有調民生用電,到最後一樣,為什麼?第一個,"},{"start":548.737,"end":549.077,"text":"其實齁 院長"},{"start":569.415,"end":591.37,"text":"這個當然要苦民所苦啦,外面你看,所有你這個只要每天你去買便當,過去的便當到現在漲了以後,它下來,它絕對不會下來的啦,我相信你也很清楚,過去買便當大概70、80,最多100可以買到,現在你100買不到什麼,"},{"start":592.09,"end":595.431,"text":"所以說請問院長你對於未來CPI年增率的變化主計總署這樣樂觀的看待院長你的看法和主計處一致的嗎?"},{"start":620.996,"end":646.785,"text":"我們當然希望穩定的維持在2以下,即使它稍微一點點,那我覺得這個還是在可控範圍。那你認為這個不是短期現象就對了,未來就是會維持在2%以下。1.82,目前還是控制在1.82。那你認為未來還是都會維持在2%以下嗎?還是短暫的現象?我們是長期努力的目標,但是國際的因素必須考慮在內,但是我們有做好所有因應的準備跟措施。"},{"start":649.356,"end":662.683,"text":"雖然10月電價調漲的政策臺電評估出這個間接影響CPI超過0.03%雖然環境部宣布明年徵收的碳會對CPI影響約0.01%"},{"start":664.804,"end":672.49,"text":"除了剛剛委員所說的這兩項因素之外我們可控的部分我們盡量控制在我們合理的範圍當中但國際上的因素我們會做好萬全的準備"},{"start":691.195,"end":699.304,"text":"所以說漲了就下不來啦,所以說老百姓很多過去能夠買那麼多東西現在買不到,他的重複指數就越高越高啊。"},{"start":710.659,"end":725.127,"text":"這個綜合起來還是會在我們可供的範圍內。院長,因為《環球金融雜誌》最新公布2024年主要國家央行總裁的評比,這個跟楊總裁有關係。我們楊總裁今年獲釋V家級的評等。那請問院長,針對今年《環球金融雜誌》對楊總裁的評等,你有什麼看法?"},{"start":736.834,"end":738.455,"text":"我先幫楊總裁鼓勵一下再請總裁"},{"start":763.444,"end":775.95,"text":"要維持都是A家那是非常辛苦的一件事情但也維持了那麼久就像大谷祥平連續36次倒壘總會失敗一次但是失敗那一次不會影響他是偉大球員我們請楊總裁說明"},{"start":778.519,"end":806.622,"text":"楊總裁你有什麼看法我想就中央銀行的立場來觀察它當然中央銀行還是就是說我們有持續努力的空間這是我的看法那是你很客氣的那個院長對於央行總裁平等的看法或許有許多不同的解讀但是對於央行政策到底要和國際央行接軌還是脫鉤我請問院長你有什麼看法"},{"start":808.067,"end":824.2,"text":"這個我覺得重要。我一直認為我們的金融、匯率等等這個市場,我們應該更國際、更開放、更自由、更創新。所以要跟國際接軌,央行也必須要做很多的創新。那現在央行除了對國內的"},{"start":825.708,"end":828.251,"text":"蘇院長我再請教現階段到底我們應該順應潮流還是走自己的路因您的看法"},{"start":844.377,"end":846.398,"text":"按照中華經濟研究院公布9月製造業採購經理人指數出現中斷先前延四個月的擴張轉為緊縮"},{"start":864.588,"end":885.246,"text":"是近半年來最低值從這項調查顯示國際景氣似乎有逐漸下滑的這種趨勢那院長你現在已經進入第四季央行為了打通膨打炒房似乎和現階段政策目標有一段距離啦換句話說說不定還有其他殺手間要推出請問院長如果未來國際景氣繼續往下"},{"start":890.231,"end":897.523,"text":"下修的話,現階段央行打通膨打炒房的做法到底是應該如何加碼,還是有條件的修正?"},{"start":898.431,"end":922.979,"text":"我們也看到比如說很多歐洲國家現在都可能面臨到通縮的狀態但是無論如何國內金融穩定央行最近所提出的這些政策經過適度的修整之後應該讓社會來實施一段時間我們是支持的但是央行在穩定國內的國內金融市場之外他的對整個匯率的掌握也相當的準確這個是央行過去很好的表現好謝謝"},{"start":928.466,"end":933.763,"text":"好,謝謝林委員。謝謝卓院長。下一位我們請鄭正前委員質詢。"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:00.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:33:06.256000+08:00","text":"謝謝大會主席江副院長，是不是請卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:06.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:33:06.436000+08:00","text":"請卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:17.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:33:17.660000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:18.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:33:18.620000+08:00","text":"卓院長，你好。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:19.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:33:34.824000+08:00","text":"院長，因為財政收支劃分法25年來絲毫未動，立法院財委會在上個會期決議要求財政部必須在會期開始前提出草案。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:36.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:33:42.285000+08:00","text":"我請問院長，為什麼到現在還看不到行政院修正的版本送進立法院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:44.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:33:57.256000+08:00","text":"這裡面到底是財政部懈怠執行職務，還是行政院下令要求財政部無須來提案，所以到現在還看不到行政院的版本？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:57.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:33:58.618000+08:00","text":"院長，你有什麼看法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:33:59.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:34:30.154000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們在院內經過充分的討論，我一直認為現在的財政收支劃分法我們來執行是最有把握的，而且根據這部法律，過去幾年當中，我們對於地方政府的任何補助金額是持續在增加的，詳細數字我再請部長說明，所以目前這樣實施下去，地方任何的重大建設，中央持續加以協助，都成為一種在財政合作上的常態，也符合我們的財政紀律。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:34:30.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:35:46.299000+08:00","text":"但是在過去我所看到的並不然啊，不是你所講的啊，因為地方跟中央，為什麼說地方一直要爭，因為中央掌權又掌錢，所以才要財劃法，而且讓地方政府大家來商討，大概有個額度，比較適當的額度，而且財委會也在上個會期有做這樣的決議，但是行政院認為不必，其實25年來有藍有綠都執政過，而財劃法幾乎也是一次又一次的都有討論過，因為財劃法制定以來就有許多不同的意見出現，各地方政府也有不同的主張，就算討論再多，多半到最後沒有一個具體的結論，有媒體報導行政院希望中央用全國的高度與角度來看，才能夠在兼顧合理性、公平性以及維護中央政府財務韌性等多重考量下，進行相關的法制規劃及調整。","quality":0.665},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:35:47.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:35:53.384000+08:00","text":"我請問院長，以您的高度來看，到底是由誰來提案才能夠達到真正客觀、公平、合理，以及維護財政的韌性？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:35:53.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:36:01.741000+08:00","text":"你的看法呢？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:36:01.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:36:30.279000+08:00","text":"報告委員，多年來中央與地方的財政合作一直呈現很正面的價值，現在各縣市地方政府的債務比例也持續在下降，表示中央除了在公建計畫上面，比方說捷運及很多科學園區的設置，都是中央全力在支持的，更有很多的道路系統、交通系統及防洪治水預算，也都是中央全力在做，而且相當多都是跨縣市、區域性的在做，這個如果由單一縣市來做，我想在執行上會明顯困難。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:36:30.279000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:36:31.279000+08:00","text":"中央累積過去這麼多年的經驗，我們可以在財政分配上及各種建設比例上做好好的規劃，我覺得現在這個財政收支劃分法是目前來看我們最有把握執行的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:36:30.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:36:31.659000+08:00","text":"所以院長的看法還是中央來分配就對了？就是……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:36:32.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:36:34.240000+08:00","text":"這不是分配，是中央與地方的財政合作。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:36:59.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:02.233000+08:00","text":"維護財政的韌性是中央政府還是地方政府？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:02.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:03.034000+08:00","text":"還是財政部？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:03.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:04.896000+08:00","text":"還是執政黨立委？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:06.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:06.897000+08:00","text":"還是在野黨立委？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:07.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:07.558000+08:00","text":"依您看呢。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:07.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:11.481000+08:00","text":"沒有，中央與地方是財政合作，並不只是分配而已。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:12.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:26.093000+08:00","text":"院長，二十多年來時空環境變遷，中央及地方政府經歷多次的政黨輪替，為了鞏固執政權力，充滿算計下的修法讓財劃法修與不修都有立場，只是長期失衡的財政環境應該由全民來買單嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:26.093000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:28.415000+08:00","text":"你的看法呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:28.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:52.267000+08:00","text":"不是，報告委員，過去這麼多年來，我們透過一般補助，透過統籌分配稅款，以及各種交通跟其他各項的公共建設補助跟地方合作，我想部長有很清楚的數字可以向委員說明，而且這個是持續增加的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:37:52.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:37:59.630000+08:00","text":"我請問院長，難道一直沒有找到共識就能夠作為財政部不提出修法的主要理由？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:38:00.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:38:04.492000+08:00","text":"還是擔心修法後，出現中央與地方政府政治權力整個失衡的結果？","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:38:04.492000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:38:05.492000+08:00","text":"又或者根本是考量、算計執政和在野黨恐怕因為修法後失去政權，所以根本將財劃法的修法視為畏途？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:38:05.492000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:38:06.492000+08:00","text":"院長，說說你的看法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:38:05.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:38:07.453000+08:00","text":"完全不是，我們正在尋求最高的共識，我剛剛有說過了，我很欣慰看到大院內部的朝野協商又將進行展開，我覺得展開之後，不僅限於總預算的議題，其他的議題大家都可以開誠布公地來談，談的就是讓人民感覺到安心。","quality":0.315},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:38:26.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:38:57.415000+08:00","text":"院長，本席認為有權就要有責，有責就要有法可循，行政院應該要逆向思考，重整修法邏輯的思維，我相信許多顧慮都可以迎刃而解，您的看法呢？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:38:57.415000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:38:58.783500+08:00","text":"部長答復一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-15T09:38:58.783500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:39:00.152000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:39:00.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:39:01.593000+08:00","text":"有權當然要有責啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-15T09:39:02.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:39:22.387000+08:00","text":"當然，財政跟事權必須要劃一，現行雖然沒有修法，但是透過中央統籌跟一般性補助款，113年的金額達到6,356億，比105年成長了46.7%，在114年更會增加900億，如果再加上計劃型補助款就接近兆元了，所以中央對於地方財政的挹注一直是非常大，是不遺餘力的去支持相互的合作夥伴關係，因為中央好，地方一起好，這樣才是我們最終的目的。","quality":0.576},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-15T09:39:22.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:39:23.828000+08:00","text":"至於共識是一定要有的，沒有共識，提出修法還是不會有結果。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:39:23.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:40:03.469000+08:00","text":"院長，我相信這一次，整個財政委員會絕對會，要是行政院不提出修法的版本，那財委會現在做的決定，到時候一定會送到院會來做最後的決定。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:40:04.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:40:14.357000+08:00","text":"我認為要是由行政院來提出版本是最適當的，既然行政院不提出版本，我相信財委會最後一定會討論出一個結論來。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:40:14.357000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:40:16.979000+08:00","text":"院長，你有什麼看法？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:40:16.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:40:29.486000+08:00","text":"我希望還是經過大院內部的協商以及兩院之間談這個事情，行政院不是沒有版本，現行的版本，我一直強調，是現在最好的版本，我們看不到更好的版本。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:40:29.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:40:30.407000+08:00","text":"好，那我就尊重你。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:40:31.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:40:43.574000+08:00","text":"院長，臺灣消費者物價指數年增率已經連續三年超過2%，以往外界習慣將2%定為通膨的警戒線，央行解釋，臺灣屬於一個小型開放的經濟體，採具彈性的物價穩定定義，應較為妥適。","quality":0.603},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:40:45.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:41:20.364000+08:00","text":"然而，主計總處公布今年9月消費者物價指數CPI是1.82%，跌回2%的通膨警戒線以下，以此數據來看，請問院長，數據發生變化是代表國內通膨情況緩和，還是只是短期現象的一個反饋？","quality":0.44},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:41:20.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:41:35.053000+08:00","text":"報告委員，數據當然是一個非常科學的計算跟統計，但是過去從COVID-19之後一直到世界發生戰爭，到底卻造成了很多原物料的上漲，我們也必須承受這個部分，但是相對來看，相信數據之外，我更重視的是，我們到每一個小店家買東西的那樣一個感覺，這個才是人民真正的生活。","quality":0.617},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:41:35.053000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:41:36.188000+08:00","text":"我們希望大家基本的生活能夠穩定，不要因為這樣一個外在的國際因素造成太多的浮動，所以，我們在這次的電價調整方案當中完全不調民生的用電，用意就是在穩定民生。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:41:36.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:41:38.249000+08:00","text":"即使你沒有調民生用電，到最後還是一樣，為什麼？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:41:38.249000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:41:51.493000+08:00","text":"第一個，行政院編列預算來補助電力公司，然後你把工業用電調整12.5%，到最後都還是一樣加在消費者的身上。","quality":0.067},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:41:51.493000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:42:04.737000+08:00","text":"經過計算，工業用電的調整對於生產者的成本計算是微乎其微的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:42:04.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:42:39.805000+08:00","text":"其實，院長，執政者當然要苦民所苦，你看外面所有的物價，你只要每天去買便當，便當價格上漲以後它絕對不會下來的，我相信你也很清楚。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:42:40.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:42:47.370000+08:00","text":"過去買便當大概70、80元，最多100元就可以買到，現在你100元買不到什麼可以吃的便當，甚至要120、130、150元，我相信大家心知肚明。","quality":0.477},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:42:47.370000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:42:48.370000+08:00","text":"而且老百姓的痛苦指數是越來越高，因為我沒有賺那麼多錢，但我的消費要那麼多，過去同樣的金額可以買更多的東西，現在越買越少。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:42:48.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:42:51.431000+08:00","text":"所以，請問院長，對於未來CPI年增率的變化，主計總處這樣樂觀的看待，院長，你的看法和主計總處一致的嗎？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:16.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:23.138000+08:00","text":"我們當然希望穩定的維持在2%以下，即使它超越一點點，那我覺得這個還在可控的範圍……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:23.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:24.859000+08:00","text":"那你認為這個不是短期現象就對了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:25.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:26.419000+08:00","text":"未來就是會維持在2%以下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:26.419000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:27.419000+08:00","text":"那我們現在還在百分之一點九幾嘛？1.82%。","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:26.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:30.301000+08:00","text":"1.82%，目前還是控制在1.82%。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:30.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:34.622000+08:00","text":"1.82%，那你認為未來還是都會維持在2%以下嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:34.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:35.402000+08:00","text":"還是短暫的現象？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:36.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:42.765000+08:00","text":"不，是我們長期努力的目標，但是國際的因素必須考慮在內，但是我們有做好所有因應的準備跟措施。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:45.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:43:58.683000+08:00","text":"院長，雖然10月電價調漲的政策，台電評估得出間接影響CPI差不多0.03%，雖然環境部宣布明年徵收的碳費對CPI的影響約0.01%，更對多家企業喊話就像針扎一下下的這種感覺。","quality":0.608},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:43:58.683000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:44:00.804000+08:00","text":"我請問院長，你是不是能夠保證一定不會觸發物價通膨的擴散效應，會不會？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:44:00.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:44:07.269000+08:00","text":"除了剛剛委員所說的這兩項因素之外，我們可控的部分，我們儘量控制在合理的範圍當中……","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:44:07.269000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:44:08.269000+08:00","text":"很多上漲的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:44:07.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:44:08.490000+08:00","text":"但是國際上的因素，我們會做好萬全的準備。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:44:27.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:44:35.284000+08:00","text":"物價上漲了就下不來，所以很多老百姓過去能夠買那麼多東西，現在買不到，他們的痛苦指數就越來越高啊！","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:44:35.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:44:49.821000+08:00","text":"委員，我們今年的CPI也曾經在某一季達到二點多，現在也降到1.82，它還是會浮動的，只要跟國際的因素，跟國內的季節關係等各方面綜合起來，還是會在我們可控的範圍內。","quality":0.211},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:44:49.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:45:01.107000+08:00","text":"好，院長，環球金融雜誌最新公布2024年主要國家央行總裁的評比，這個跟楊總裁有關係，我國央行楊總裁今年獲B+級的評等，請問院長針對今年環球金融雜誌對央行楊總裁的評等有什麼看法？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:45:01.107000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:45:12.834000+08:00","text":"因為外界對已經獲得4A的楊總裁這次評等是B+有幾個不同的解讀，包括受通膨拖累、房市政策一改再改，甚至於連漲電價、升息的決策都是降評的原因，請問你認為哪一個可能是導致降評的主因？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:45:12.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:45:14.434000+08:00","text":"我先幫楊總裁鼓勵一下，再請總裁說明。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:45:39.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:45:51.929000+08:00","text":"要維持都是A+，那是非常辛苦的一件事情，但也維持了那麼久，就像大谷翔平連續36次盜壘，總會失敗1次，但是失敗的那一次不會影響他是偉大的球員，我請楊總裁說明。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:45:54.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:45:55.260000+08:00","text":"楊總裁，你有什麼看法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2024-10-15T09:45:56.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:46:07.549000+08:00","text":"我想就中央銀行的立場來觀察它，當然，我們中央銀行還是有持續努力的空間，這是我的看法。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:46:07.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:46:08.490000+08:00","text":"那是你很客氣啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:46:09.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:46:22.602000+08:00","text":"院長，對於央行總裁評等的看法或許有許多不同的解讀，但是對於央行政策到底要和國際央行接軌還是脫鉤，我請問院長有什麼看法？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:46:24.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:46:40.180000+08:00","text":"這個我覺得重要，我一直認為我們的金融、匯率等等市場應該更國際、更開放、更自由、更創新，所以要跟國際接軌，央行也必須要做很多的創新，現在央行除了對國內的匯率以及各項的金融穩定之外，我想央行也會隨著這個潮流，跟國內所有的行庫一樣，展現一個跟國際市場能夠強力接軌的模式。","quality":0.558},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:46:41.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:46:43.410000+08:00","text":"卓院長，我再請教你，依您的看法，現階段到底我們應該要順應潮流還是走自己的路？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:46:43.410000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:47:00.517000+08:00","text":"我們要順應潮流，但是我們的國情跟國家的特色及優點也要保持住，但一定要跟國際接軌。","quality":0.027},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:47:00.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:47:28.195000+08:00","text":"院長，中華經濟研究院公布9月製造業採購經理人指數PMI出現中斷先前連4個月的擴張轉為緊縮，是近半年來最低值，從這項調查顯示，國際景氣似乎有逐漸下滑的這種趨勢。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:47:28.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:47:40.245000+08:00","text":"院長，現在已經進入第4季，央行為了打通膨、打炒房，似乎和現階段政策目標有一段距離，換句話說，說不定還有其他殺手鐗要推出。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:47:40.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:47:53.503000+08:00","text":"請問院長，如果未來國際景氣繼續下修的話，現階段央行打通膨、打炒房的作法到底是應該如何加碼，還是有條件的修正？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:47:54.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:48:18.959000+08:00","text":"是，我們也看到比方說有很多歐洲國家現在都可能面臨到通縮的狀態，但是無論如何要維持國內金融穩定，央行最近所提出的這些政策經過適度的修整之後，應該讓社會來實施一段時間，我們是支持的，但是央行在穩定國內金融市場之外，它對整個匯率的掌握也相當的準確，這個是央行過去很好的表現。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員德福","start":"2024-10-15T09:48:18.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:48:18.979000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T09:48:18.979000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T09:48:24.646000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-15T09:48:24.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:48:27.937000+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-15T09:48:27.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T09:48:29.763000+08:00","text":"下一位請鄭正鈐委員質詢。","quality":0.909}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-15T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:32:56 - 09:48:35","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":217,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（9時32分）謝謝大會主席江副院長，是不是請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員德福：卓院長，你好。院長，因為財政收支劃分法25年來絲毫未動，立法院財委會在上個會期決議要求財政部必須在會期開始前提出草案。我請問院長，為什麼到現在還看不到行政院修正的版本送進立法院？這裡面到底是財政部懈怠執行職務，還是行政院下令要求財政部無須來提案，所以到現在還看不到行政院的版本？院長，你有什麼看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們在院內經過充分的討論，我一直認為現在的財政收支劃分法我們來執行是最有把握的，而且根據這部法律，過去幾年當中，我們對於地方政府的任何補助金額是持續在增加的，詳細數字我再請部長說明，所以目前這樣實施下去，地方任何的重大建設，中央持續加以協助，都成為一種在財政合作上的常態，也符合我們的財政紀律。"],["林委員德福：但是在過去我所看到的並不然啊，不是你所講的啊，因為地方跟中央，為什麼說地方一直要爭，因為中央掌權又掌錢，所以才要財劃法，而且讓地方政府大家來商討，大概有個額度，比較適當的額度，而且財委會也在上個會期有做這樣的決議，但是行政院認為不必，其實25年來有藍有綠都執政過，而財劃法幾乎也是一次又一次的都有討論過，因為財劃法制定以來就有許多不同的意見出現，各地方政府也有不同的主張，就算討論再多，多半到最後沒有一個具體的結論，有媒體報導行政院希望中央用全國的高度與角度來看，才能夠在兼顧合理性、公平性以及維護中央政府財務韌性等多重考量下，進行相關的法制規劃及調整。我請問院長，以您的高度來看，到底是由誰來提案才能夠達到真正客觀、公平、合理，以及維護財政的韌性？你的看法呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，多年來中央與地方的財政合作一直呈現很正面的價值，現在各縣市地方政府的債務比例也持續在下降，表示中央除了在公建計畫上面，比方說捷運及很多科學園區的設置，都是中央全力在支持的，更有很多的道路系統、交通系統及防洪治水預算，也都是中央全力在做，而且相當多都是跨縣市、區域性的在做，這個如果由單一縣市來做，我想在執行上會明顯困難。中央累積過去這麼多年的經驗，我們可以在財政分配上及各種建設比例上做好好的規劃，我覺得現在這個財政收支劃分法是目前來看我們最有把握執行的。"],["林委員德福：所以院長的看法還是中央來分配就對了？就是……"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是分配，是中央與地方的財政合作。"],["林委員德福：維護財政的韌性是中央政府還是地方政府？還是財政部？還是執政黨立委？還是在野黨立委？依您看呢。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，中央與地方是財政合作，並不只是分配而已。"],["林委員德福：院長，二十多年來時空環境變遷，中央及地方政府經歷多次的政黨輪替，為了鞏固執政權力，充滿算計下的修法讓財劃法修與不修都有立場，只是長期失衡的財政環境應該由全民來買單嗎？你的看法呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，報告委員，過去這麼多年來，我們透過一般補助，透過統籌分配稅款，以及各種交通跟其他各項的公共建設補助跟地方合作，我想部長有很清楚的數字可以向委員說明，而且這個是持續增加的。"],["林委員德福：我請問院長，難道一直沒有找到共識就能夠作為財政部不提出修法的主要理由？還是擔心修法後，出現中央與地方政府政治權力整個失衡的結果？又或者根本是考量、算計執政和在野黨恐怕因為修法後失去政權，所以根本將財劃法的修法視為畏途？院長，說說你的看法。"],["卓院長榮泰：完全不是，我們正在尋求最高的共識，我剛剛有說過了，我很欣慰看到大院內部的朝野協商又將進行展開，我覺得展開之後，不僅限於總預算的議題，其他的議題大家都可以開誠布公地來談，談的就是讓人民感覺到安心。"],["林委員德福：院長，本席認為有權就要有責，有責就要有法可循，行政院應該要逆向思考，重整修法邏輯的思維，我相信許多顧慮都可以迎刃而解，您的看法呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：部長答復一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，跟委員報告……"],["林委員德福：有權當然要有責啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：當然，財政跟事權必須要劃一，現行雖然沒有修法，但是透過中央統籌跟一般性補助款，113年的金額達到6,356億，比105年成長了46.7%，在114年更會增加900億，如果再加上計劃型補助款就接近兆元了，所以中央對於地方財政的挹注一直是非常大，是不遺餘力的去支持相互的合作夥伴關係，因為中央好，地方一起好，這樣才是我們最終的目的。至於共識是一定要有的，沒有共識，提出修法還是不會有結果。"],["林委員德福：院長，我相信這一次，整個財政委員會絕對會，要是行政院不提出修法的版本，那財委會現在做的決定，到時候一定會送到院會來做最後的決定。我認為要是由行政院來提出版本是最適當的，既然行政院不提出版本，我相信財委會最後一定會討論出一個結論來。院長，你有什麼看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望還是經過大院內部的協商以及兩院之間談這個事情，行政院不是沒有版本，現行的版本，我一直強調，是現在最好的版本，我們看不到更好的版本。"],["林委員德福：好，那我就尊重你。院長，臺灣消費者物價指數年增率已經連續三年超過2%，以往外界習慣將2%定為通膨的警戒線，央行解釋，臺灣屬於一個小型開放的經濟體，採具彈性的物價穩定定義，應較為妥適。然而，主計總處公布今年9月消費者物價指數CPI是1.82%，跌回2%的通膨警戒線以下，以此數據來看，請問院長，數據發生變化是代表國內通膨情況緩和，還是只是短期現象的一個反饋？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，數據當然是一個非常科學的計算跟統計，但是過去從COVID-19之後一直到世界發生戰爭，到底卻造成了很多原物料的上漲，我們也必須承受這個部分，但是相對來看，相信數據之外，我更重視的是，我們到每一個小店家買東西的那樣一個感覺，這個才是人民真正的生活。我們希望大家基本的生活能夠穩定，不要因為這樣一個外在的國際因素造成太多的浮動，所以，我們在這次的電價調整方案當中完全不調民生的用電，用意就是在穩定民生。"],["林委員德福：即使你沒有調民生用電，到最後還是一樣，為什麼？第一個，行政院編列預算來補助電力公司，然後你把工業用電調整12.5%，到最後都還是一樣加在消費者的身上。"],["卓院長榮泰：經過計算，工業用電的調整對於生產者的成本計算是微乎其微的。"],["林委員德福：其實，院長，執政者當然要苦民所苦，你看外面所有的物價，你只要每天去買便當，便當價格上漲以後它絕對不會下來的，我相信你也很清楚。過去買便當大概70、80元，最多100元就可以買到，現在你100元買不到什麼可以吃的便當，甚至要120、130、150元，我相信大家心知肚明。而且老百姓的痛苦指數是越來越高，因為我沒有賺那麼多錢，但我的消費要那麼多，過去同樣的金額可以買更多的東西，現在越買越少。所以，請問院長，對於未來CPI年增率的變化，主計總處這樣樂觀的看待，院長，你的看法和主計總處一致的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然希望穩定的維持在2%以下，即使它超越一點點，那我覺得這個還在可控的範圍……"],["林委員德福：那你認為這個不是短期現象就對了？未來就是會維持在2%以下？"],["卓院長榮泰：那我們現在還在百分之一點九幾嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：1.82%。"],["卓院長榮泰：1.82%，目前還是控制在1.82%。"],["林委員德福：1.82%，那你認為未來還是都會維持在2%以下嗎？還是短暫的現象？"],["卓院長榮泰：不，是我們長期努力的目標，但是國際的因素必須考慮在內，但是我們有做好所有因應的準備跟措施。"],["林委員德福：院長，雖然10月電價調漲的政策，台電評估得出間接影響CPI差不多0.03%，雖然環境部宣布明年徵收的碳費對CPI的影響約0.01%，更對多家企業喊話就像針扎一下下的這種感覺。我請問院長，你是不是能夠保證一定不會觸發物價通膨的擴散效應，會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：除了剛剛委員所說的這兩項因素之外，我們可控的部分，我們儘量控制在合理的範圍當中……"],["林委員德福：很多上漲的……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是國際上的因素，我們會做好萬全的準備。"],["林委員德福：物價上漲了就下不來，所以很多老百姓過去能夠買那麼多東西，現在買不到，他們的痛苦指數就越來越高啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們今年的CPI也曾經在某一季達到二點多，現在也降到1.82，它還是會浮動的，只要跟國際的因素，跟國內的季節關係等各方面綜合起來，還是會在我們可控的範圍內。"],["林委員德福：好，院長，環球金融雜誌最新公布2024年主要國家央行總裁的評比，這個跟楊總裁有關係，我國央行楊總裁今年獲B+級的評等，請問院長針對今年環球金融雜誌對央行楊總裁的評等有什麼看法？因為外界對已經獲得4A的楊總裁這次評等是B+有幾個不同的解讀，包括受通膨拖累、房市政策一改再改，甚至於連漲電價、升息的決策都是降評的原因，請問你認為哪一個可能是導致降評的主因？"],["卓院長榮泰：我先幫楊總裁鼓勵一下，再請總裁說明。","要維持都是A+，那是非常辛苦的一件事情，但也維持了那麼久，就像大谷翔平連續36次盜壘，總會失敗1次，但是失敗的那一次不會影響他是偉大的球員，我請楊總裁說明。"],["林委員德福：楊總裁，你有什麼看法？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想就中央銀行的立場來觀察它，當然，我們中央銀行還是有持續努力的空間，這是我的看法。"],["林委員德福：那是你很客氣啦！院長，對於央行總裁評等的看法或許有許多不同的解讀，但是對於央行政策到底要和國際央行接軌還是脫鉤，我請問院長有什麼看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個我覺得重要，我一直認為我們的金融、匯率等等市場應該更國際、更開放、更自由、更創新，所以要跟國際接軌，央行也必須要做很多的創新，現在央行除了對國內的匯率以及各項的金融穩定之外，我想央行也會隨著這個潮流，跟國內所有的行庫一樣，展現一個跟國際市場能夠強力接軌的模式。"],["林委員德福：卓院長，我再請教你，依您的看法，現階段到底我們應該要順應潮流還是走自己的路？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要順應潮流，但是我們的國情跟國家的特色及優點也要保持住，但一定要跟國際接軌。"],["林委員德福：院長，中華經濟研究院公布9月製造業採購經理人指數PMI出現中斷先前連4個月的擴張轉為緊縮，是近半年來最低值，從這項調查顯示，國際景氣似乎有逐漸下滑的這種趨勢。院長，現在已經進入第4季，央行為了打通膨、打炒房，似乎和現階段政策目標有一段距離，換句話說，說不定還有其他殺手鐗要推出。請問院長，如果未來國際景氣繼續下修的話，現階段央行打通膨、打炒房的作法到底是應該如何加碼，還是有條件的修正？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們也看到比方說有很多歐洲國家現在都可能面臨到通縮的狀態，但是無論如何要維持國內金融穩定，央行最近所提出的這些政策經過適度的修整之後，應該讓社會來實施一段時間，我們是支持的，但是央行在穩定國內金融市場之外，它對整個匯率的掌握也相當的準確，這個是央行過去很好的表現。"],["林委員德福：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林委員，謝謝卓院長。下一位請鄭正鈐委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":179,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃珊珊","林楚茵","葛如鈞","林德福","鄭正鈐","林沛祥","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","范雲","謝衣鳯","莊瑞雄","黃建賓","陳秀寳","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅美玲","黃捷","張雅琳","李坤城","王美惠"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00003","1137801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137801_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}