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院長來了說這邊會盡量補助那第一線人員居然回答 沒有這個事 我沒有聽說到"},{"start":159.349,"end":179.242,"text":"那我不知道為什麼國有財產局針對這個救災、震災的態度跟基隆市政府差這麼多。這邊我必須要先跟院長來做個報告,也請院長說明一下怎麼會變這個樣子。是的委員,我們那天我記得我們是到新豐街。對"},{"start":181.601,"end":182.021,"text":"臨時提案委員．林沛"},{"start":200.169,"end":223.211,"text":"接受委員或是議員的要求去現場看那他們要回來之後當然要統合整個經費的需求跟這個整個工程復原的先入順序再來做一項的處理我想給他們謹慎一點是好但是地方受到風災任何的這個傷害中央政府跟地方一定是通力合作來把它復原的"},{"start":223.511,"end":246.768,"text":"因為我會這樣講的原因是我期待我們行政院的各部門不是只有院長講的話之後下面的人就應奉陽違其實不管是誰執政都是很糟糕的公務人員的狀況那這件事情其實我會希望因為基隆市院長去過基隆知道基隆市很多山坡地可能有80%以上的地"},{"start":247.248,"end":247.408,"text":"國有財產署"},{"start":268.664,"end":294.806,"text":"請委員放心,無論是透過交通部門跟到交通部或是國土署到內政部或是您說的國產署到財政部,他們都會往部裡面去這個綜合整理所有地方報上來的需要一起合作協助的地方,那我們就會按部就班按程序來處理。我會特別請財政部再特別注意一下當天會刊的現場狀況,那事後跟委員做詳細的說明。"},{"start":296.027,"end":325.371,"text":"好,謝謝院長。 院長,那我是為什麼特地請我們鄭部長過來的原因,就是因為說,其實風災所影響的不是只有民宅還有道路而已。對於學校,尤其是說,其實院長上,院長對基隆蠻了解的。基隆多山,然後基隆很多,基本上所有的學校不是靠著山壁,就是在山上。那這一次風災是基隆史上雨量最大的風。"},{"start":325.931,"end":353.005,"text":"余量最大的風災那我們也知道前一陣子的有感地震無感地震其實針對整個地下水文的腦洞是很嚴重的所以基隆這次土石油的發生嚴格講起來並不是針對是說我們沒有清淤清好而是有很多在山坡上他們地質跟地下水文已經改變這也是為什麼院長您10月4號來基隆看災的時候我不在現場"},{"start":354.005,"end":372.167,"text":"因為我知道有哪些地方看起來沒事可是以前已經出過事的地方它附近的所有的區域也有可能會發生災害而且這種災害不是只有大雨來的時候會崩塌像說在那個曹慶那邊院長一定有接到報告"},{"start":372.788,"end":388.655,"text":"朝鷄那邊那個時候風和日麗居然也會發生攤崩就是在那個海科館那邊所以像這樣的案子其實在基隆隨時有可能發生基隆的研盤基隆的地址其實已經跟當年講的不一樣那為什麼把這些事情拿出來呢"},{"start":389.215,"end":415.542,"text":"我這邊有一些報告這邊就是說其實基隆市這次的在學校上面的風災非常嚴重那我知道說院長10月12號一到高雄就直接請國請國教署撥了800萬給受災的這些學校不過基隆我也必須幫基隆請院因為基隆這一次現在目前有估計到學校受災的地方就高達6200萬"},{"start":417.463,"end":432.763,"text":"那我也直接問過市政府他們目前的教育處跟災害補償金他們能夠不用多少他們跟我報告說差不多6200萬只有他們可以負擔到10%到15%其他真的付不出來"},{"start":433.524,"end":460.641,"text":"那也是因為這個原因所以說他們跟我講說委員如果沒有錢的話我們就只好把這些設施暫時性的把它封起來那讓學校保持安全可是學生的秀校審議就會受損害到所以我這邊有兩份資料我想請拿給我們的部長跟我們的院長來請說幫基隆人請益請你們幫幫忙這些事情"},{"start":475.285,"end":490.796,"text":"好的,各位委員報告,當天我不僅到基隆,我到瑞芳的瑞芳高宮。那上個禮拜我到高雄的前鎮國小區。我想我們都是最關心第一個是住家的淹水,再來就是學校的破壞。"},{"start":492.213,"end":514.243,"text":"部長這邊已經有手上有資料,現在他已經有11所基隆市的學校受損,提出了一些需求,如果我們請部長稍微說明一下。謝謝林委員。部長不好意思,我這邊特地提一個啦,你看到我給你的資料,這第58項德和國小,那邊的受災其實相當相當相當相當嚴重。"},{"start":516.738,"end":545.409,"text":"那邊是整塊整個大樓基本上已經被土石流淹沒其實這整個預算裡面最貴的是德和國小這邊這邊不好意思基隆市真的浮不出來所以說這邊尤其是這一塊要請中央單位請部長院長多多幫忙這個是昨天才造出來的實況那這個如果說無法修好的話德和國小我們就只能把它封起來"},{"start":546.687,"end":568.125,"text":"右邊這張圖昨天才照出來的?還是這個樣子?對,沒辦法,因為這怎麼清呢?這4千,上面已經被寫得很清楚,4千多萬,光這一筆,其他的1千多萬,其他的還可以說慢慢大家基隆市我們大家來,也需要中央補助,可是這一筆,所以我剛剛為什麼講說地下水文的破壞,"},{"start":569.306,"end":592.893,"text":"其實對於基隆市是有潛在致命性的傷害但是我們不可能在沒有災害發生之前直接去做監測這筆費用太貴我很清楚因為我之前問過光一個山頭就要兩三億但是至少發生災害了我們至少把他們的受教權把他們學生的權益把它一起幫他們恢復回來好不好"},{"start":596.687,"end":622.993,"text":"其實這是一棟大樓可是其實總共三到四棟大樓不過一棟大樓已經完全被淹過去現在只能靠剩下的三棟大樓來去支撐如果可以的話甚至說我下次辦會館請教育部也來安排一下時間相關可以馬上到基隆重要的毀損嚴重的幾個學校看一看能夠適時的急速的這樣幫大家來完成"},{"start":623.853,"end":639.453,"text":"這個我們要列為必要的優先。謝謝委員關心,我想我們會後,我們下午就請國教署馬上同仁這個負責同仁到前往去這個德國小立集這個來勘查,然後請專家看怎麼樣來協助。"},{"start":641.443,"end":670.881,"text":"很多是地方政府也要出來協助他們很樂意他們很樂意這是地方政府主動跟我講說這筆太大一般來講風災的整個整個remedy整個所謂的急救款拿不起到8到900萬這是6千多萬整個加起來針對我只是針對說教育教育部學校方面以前差不多800萬到900萬請委員你協助你居間把地方政府請出來教育部來看看地方政府還有多少的災損金可以用那其他的部分"},{"start":671.853,"end":698.5,"text":"應急的部分我們會來處理。好,謝謝。再來其實我要問的這個方針比較嚴格講起來這個也不能講不嚴肅只是我必須請教說院長跟我們的那個政部長因為現在那個體育署未來要變成體育發展部、運動發展部現在在我們的那個教育部裡面但是我很好奇就是說"},{"start":699.58,"end":722.428,"text":"到底為什麼要去做這個運動發展部我們的目標到底是什麼因為很實際的我想全國喜歡運動的人都想問這個問題我們這個運動發展部所建立的原因是為了在國際賽事上拿金牌幫我們國人增加榮譽感認同感還是是針對說這個運動產業在臺灣已經有可能發展還是"},{"start":727.47,"end":727.79,"text":"委員你剛剛說的齁"},{"start":750.936,"end":774.869,"text":"都是,沒有還是,都是。第一個我要強調,它不是一個升格的問題,它是一個全新的運動部。它裡面最重要的三項精神,第一個就是推展全民運動,第二個是國際競技,第三個是運動產業。當然還有其他啦,我說最重要這三項。那這三項會變成三支柱子,支撐全新的一個運動部。"},{"start":775.711,"end":799.637,"text":"那這個就很尷尬了因為這三個老實講都很難做得到啊因為老實說如果你是要國際賽事的話你要在國際賽事拿名你的經費你要怎麼樣去依註如果說針對我其實有第一個要問因為我自己本身是基隆SBL的領隊那現在籃球的事情老得紛紛擾擾我想請問一下院長跟部長你們自己有從事運動嗎有打運動嗎"},{"start":803.983,"end":823.386,"text":"任何運動都可以去參與有沒有自己喜歡打的?像我是籃球迷我高中、大學都是打校的隊請問你們是有真的現在我現在昨天還在練球跟委員報告我大概平常現在因為這個考量這個年紀關係我現在只會打網球大概就是桌球桌球大概是"},{"start":825.177,"end":843.046,"text":"這就是我們現在尷尬的地方就是說我們現在講的很多運動有關這個賽事甚至想要把職業化產業化的賽事那全部都是大型運動都不是one on one請問你知道有乒乓球的世界有乒乓球的職業選手嗎?國內有沒有像職業青雙球的賽事?"},{"start":851.364,"end":853.045,"text":"那就是另外的問題請問運動為什麼要提升全民運動"},{"start":881.463,"end":909.006,"text":"這是健康的問題嗎?那就糟糕了,因為運動的本質不是只為了健康啊。運動的本質是要有紀律性、團大精神跟其他的。這就是我說我們現在開始...我問你這是一個全新的運動部。院長,我們不是在辯論,我只是在講說,因為我自己打籃球,而且我自己打籃球打得很深。所以說運動發展部這件事情出來的時候,大家看好的人"},{"start":910.447,"end":910.567,"text":"謝謝林委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:14:43.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:14:46.827000+08:00","text":"有請卓院長和教育部鄭部長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-15T10:14:46.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:14:49.211000+08:00","text":"卓院長、鄭部長請備詢。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:14:49.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:14:49.912000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:15:01.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:15:21.511000+08:00","text":"卓院長，先是一個時事題，現在全球都滿關心的就是，我們本來派前副總統、前行政院院長陳建仁去參加這次APEC的活動，但是被拒絕了，我想請問一下院長，未來打算怎麼樣？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:15:21.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:15:24.653000+08:00","text":"怎麼樣推出一個合適的人選去參加APEC呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:15:26.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:15:36.847000+08:00","text":"APEC領袖代表是總統跟總統府在作業，行政院並沒有參與，但是我看到相關的報導，如果屬實，我也覺得非常惋惜。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:15:42.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:15:58.331000+08:00","text":"陳前副總統、陳前院長在他副總統跟院長任內對國事的瞭解是相當多的，尤其在院長任內，也帶領國家從政經各方面的進步做了很多努力，非常瞭解國家的需求，對世界的狀況也是非常嫻熟的。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:15:59.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:16:05.240000+08:00","text":"如果行政院可以推薦人選，請問院長會推薦哪一位？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:16:06.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:16:12.428000+08:00","text":"抱歉，這是總統職權，行政院不宜推薦任何人，但總統有任何吩咐，我們就會去執行。好。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:16:16.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:16:45.725000+08:00","text":"針對卓院長在10月6號特地來到基隆勘災，本席給予高度的肯定，不過我也必須跟卓院長報告一下，您特地來，然後您說要對救災進行補助，我這邊是覺得，其實您講的話似乎很多單位並沒有好好地把它納進去。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:16:45.725000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:16:47.667000+08:00","text":"請委員指教。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:16:47.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:17:17.069000+08:00","text":"譬如說您10月6號來，10月7號在基隆市中山區青龍山的產業道路（在大德國中旁邊）有一個直接的勘災活動，工務處處長跟我的秘書直接說，院長來了，說這邊會儘量補助，當下國有財產署的第一線承辦人員居然回答說沒有這個事、我沒有聽說。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:17:18.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:17:27.075000+08:00","text":"我不知道為什麼國有財產署針對救災、賑災的態度跟基隆市政府差這麼多！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:17:28.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:17:34.440000+08:00","text":"這邊我必須先跟院長做個報告，也請院長說明一下，怎麼會變這個樣子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:17:34.440000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:17:46.804500+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我記得我們那天是到新豐街土石流塌下來的地方看那個社區跟那條路，答應說當天晚上8點會通車，也是緊急地有通車了。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:17:46.804500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:17:59.169000+08:00","text":"那您說的其他地點，很抱歉！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:17:59.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:18:22.071000+08:00","text":"我沒有辦法把所有的人帶到所有的地方去，所以那個地點也許是國有財產署或者其他單位接受委員或議員的要求去現場看，他們回來之後當然要統合整個經費的需求跟整個工程復原的先後順序再來做處理，我想他們謹慎一點是好的，但是地方受到任何風災的傷害，中央政府跟地方一定是通力合作來把它復原，這個原則不會錯。","quality":0.642},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:18:22.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:18:36.962000+08:00","text":"我會這樣講的原因是我期待行政院各部門，不是院長講了話之後，下面的人就陽奉陰違，其實不管是誰執政，這都是很糟糕的公務人員的狀況。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:18:37.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:18:46.388000+08:00","text":"這件事情其實我會希望……因為院長去過基隆，知道基隆市很多山坡地，可能有80%以上的地都是國有財產署管轄，尤其是這些山坡地，很需要中央單位來協助，甚至是補助，來把這次有關受災戶的事情做好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:18:46.388000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:19:07.664000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊建請院長回去跟國有財產署的高層下令，說未來我們基隆會需要他們多幫助，而我也會當中間的橋梁，這樣是否可以？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:19:07.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:19:33.786000+08:00","text":"請委員放心，無論是透過交通部門到交通部、國土署到內政部，或是您說的國產署到財政部，他們都會往部裡面去綜合整理所有地方報上來的、需要一起合作協助的地方，我們就會按部就班、按程序來處理，我會特別請財政部再特別注意一下當天會勘的現場狀況，之後跟委員做詳細的說明。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:19:35.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:19:37.109000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:19:37.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:20:57.891000+08:00","text":"院長，我特別請鄭部長備詢的原因就是，其實風災所影響的不是只有民宅還有道路而已，對於學校，其實院長對基隆蠻了解的，基隆多山，基隆基本上所有的學校不是靠著山壁，就是在山上，這次風災是基隆史上雨量最大的風災，我們也知道前一陣子的有感地震、無感地震，其實針對整個地下水文的擾動是很嚴重的，所以基隆這次土石流的發生，嚴格講起來並不是因為我們沒有清淤清好，而是有很多在山坡上的地質跟地下水文已經改變，這也是為什麼院長您10月4日來基隆勘災的時候，我不在現場，因為我知道有哪些地方看起來沒事，可是以前已經出過事的地方，它附近的所有區域也有可能會發生災害，而且這種災害不是只有大雨來的時候會崩塌，像在潮境那邊，院長一定有接到報告，潮境那邊那個時候風和日麗居然也會發生坍崩，就是在海科館那邊。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:20:57.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:21:05.974000+08:00","text":"所以像這樣的案子其實在基隆隨時有可能發生，基隆的岩盤、基隆的地質其實已經跟當年想的不一樣。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:21:06.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:21:07.635000+08:00","text":"為什麼把這些事情拿出來呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:21:08.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:22:08.134000+08:00","text":"我這邊有一些報告，其實基隆市這次在學校方面，風災非常嚴重，我知道院長10月12日一到高雄，就直接請國教署撥了800萬給受災的這些學校，不過我也必須幫基隆請願，因為基隆這一次，目前有估計到學校受災的地方就高達6,200萬當中我也直接問過市政府他們教育處跟災害補償金能夠撥用多少，他們跟我報告，6,200萬元當中，他們差不多只可以負擔到10%到15%，其他真的付不出來，也是因為這個原因，所以他們跟我講：委員，如果沒有錢的話，我們就只好把這些設施暫時性的封起來，讓學校保持安全，可是學生的受教權益就會損害到。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:22:08.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:22:19.621000+08:00","text":"所以我這邊有兩份資料，我想拿給我們的部長跟我們的院長來幫基隆人請命，請你們幫幫忙這件事情。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:22:34.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:23:01.077000+08:00","text":"好的，跟委員報告，當天我不僅到基隆，我到瑞芳的瑞芳高工，上個禮拜我到高雄的前鎮國小，我想我們最關心的，第一個是住家的淹水，再來就是學校的破壞，部長這邊手上已經有資料了，現在已經有11所基隆市的學校受損，提出了一些需求，我們請部長稍微說明一下。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-15T10:23:03.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:23:03.839000+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:23:03.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:23:44.409000+08:00","text":"部長，不好意思，我這邊特地提一個，你看到我給你的資料，在第58項德和國小，那邊的受災其實相當、相當、相當嚴重，那邊是整塊、整個大樓基本上已經被土石流淹沒，其實這整個預算裡面最貴的是德和國小這邊，不好意思，這邊基隆市真的付不出來，尤其是這一塊，要請中央單位、請部長及院長多多幫忙，這個是事實，這是昨天才照出來的實況，如果無法修好的話，德和國小我們就只好把它封起來。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:23:45.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:23:47.809000+08:00","text":"右邊這張圖，昨天才照出來的？對。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:23:48.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:23:49.410000+08:00","text":"還是這個樣子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:23:50.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:23:51.712000+08:00","text":"對，沒辦法，因為這怎麼清呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:23:52.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:24:17.449000+08:00","text":"上面已經寫得很清楚，光這一筆就四千多萬，其他的一千多萬，其他的還可以基隆市我們大家慢慢來……也需要中央補助，可是這一筆，所以我剛剛為什麼講地下水文的破壞其實對於基隆市是有潛在致命性的傷害，但是我們不可能在沒有災害發生之前直接去做監測。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:24:17.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:24:31.873000+08:00","text":"這筆費用太貴，我很清楚，因為我之前問過，光一個山頭就要兩、三億，但是發生災害了，我們至少把他們的受教權、把學生的權益，一起幫他們恢復回來，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:24:31.873000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:24:35.847000+08:00","text":"那麼現在學生的上課還是相當的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:24:35.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:24:51.090000+08:00","text":"這是一棟大樓，總共三到四棟大樓，不過一棟大樓已經完全被淹過去，現在只能靠剩下的三棟大樓來支撐，如果可以的話，甚至說我下次辦會勘，請教育部也派人來。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:24:51.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:25:04.936000+08:00","text":"請部長安排一下時間，相關人員可以馬上到基隆，去毀損嚴重的幾個學校看一看，能夠適時的、急速的幫大家來完成，這個我們要列為必要優先。謝謝。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-15T10:25:05.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:25:18.432000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心，會後我們下午就請國教署負責的同仁前往德和國小立即來勘查，然後請專家看怎麼樣來協助。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:25:20.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:25:22.284000+08:00","text":"很多是地方政府也要出來協助。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:25:22.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:25:42.256000+08:00","text":"他們很樂意，這是地方政府主動跟我講說這筆太大，一般來講，風災的整個remedy──整個所謂的急救款了不起800萬到900萬，這些整個加起來六千多萬，我只是針對教育部學校方面，以前差不多800萬到900萬。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:25:42.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:25:52.413000+08:00","text":"所以請委員也居間協助，把地方政府請出來，讓教育部來看看地方政府還有多少的災損金可以用，那其他的部分、應急的部分我們會來處理。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:25:52.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:25:54.314000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:25:54.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:26:21.861000+08:00","text":"再來，其實我要問的，嚴格講起來這個也不能講不嚴肅，只是我也必須請教院長跟我們的鄭部長，因為體育署未來要變成體育暨運動發展部，那現在還在我們的教育部裡面，但是我很好奇就是說，到底為什麼要去做這個運動發展部？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:26:22.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:26:24.162000+08:00","text":"我們的目標到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:26:24.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:26:38.947000+08:00","text":"因為很實際的，我想全國喜歡運動的人都想問這個問題，我們這個運動發展部所建立的原因是為了在國際賽事上拿金牌，幫我們國人增加榮譽感、認同感？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:26:39.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:26:41.288000+08:00","text":"還是針對運動產業在臺灣已經有可能發展？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:26:41.288000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:26:43.879000+08:00","text":"還是說要讓我們的運動，也就是體育這方面的事情真的深植到我們社會？","quality":0.067},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:26:43.879000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:26:46.470000+08:00","text":"到底是怎麼樣，總是要有一個比較明確的目標，因為老實講……不然的話，我們現在在民間常聽到說，你升格成為部，人變多了，但是功能沒有變，那這一點的話，我想……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:26:46.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:27:11.637000+08:00","text":"委員，你剛剛說的都是，沒有還是，都是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:27:12.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:27:33.849000+08:00","text":"第一個我要強調，它不是一個升格的問題，它是一個全新的運動部，它裡面最重要的三項精神，第一個就是推展全民運動，第二個是國際競技，第三個是運動產業，當然還有其他，我是說最重要就這三項，那這三項會變成三支柱子支撐全新的一個運動部。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:27:34.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:27:46.514000+08:00","text":"那這個就很尷尬了，因為這三個老實講都很難做得到，因為老實說，如果你是要在國際賽事拿名的話，你的經費要怎麼樣去挹注？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:27:48.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:27:58.557000+08:00","text":"其實我第一個要問，因為我自己本身是基隆SBL的領隊，那現在籃球的事情搞得紛紛擾擾，我想請問一下院長跟部長，你們自己有從事運動嗎？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:27:58.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:27:58.637000+08:00","text":"有打運動嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:02.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:04.885000+08:00","text":"任何運動都可以去參與。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:04.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:06.347000+08:00","text":"有沒有自己喜歡打的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:06.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:11.793000+08:00","text":"像我是籃球迷，我高中、大學都打校隊，我昨天還在練球，你們……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:12.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:22.366000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，現在因為考量年紀的關係，我現在除了打網球，大概就是桌球，桌球是比較方便的。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:24.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:41.085000+08:00","text":"這就是我們現在尷尬的地方，就是說我們現在講的很多運動，有關這個賽事，甚至想要把它職業化、產業化的賽事，全部都是大型運動，都不是one on one，請問你知道有乒乓球的職業選手嗎？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:41.085000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:42.085000+08:00","text":"國內的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:42.085000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:43.085000+08:00","text":"國內有很多好手，對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:41.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:42.026000+08:00","text":"國內有沒有像職業乒乓球的賽事？賽事？對。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:42.026000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:43.693600+08:00","text":"我們未來也希望用臺灣的元素來舉辦大型的國際賽事。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:43.693600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:45.361200+08:00","text":"這就是我要講的，就是說你們如果真的要成立一個部的話，光運動產業這一塊，你沒有提說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:45.361200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:47.028800+08:00","text":"不會、不會，這之一而已。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:47.028800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:48.696400+08:00","text":"對，雖然運動產業是之一，但是有多少職業運動應該在臺灣去深耕發展？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:48.696400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:50.364000+08:00","text":"這個就是未來發展了，報告委員，如果我們沒有全民運動的話，我們支撐不了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:50.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:28:52.045000+08:00","text":"那就是另外一個問題，請問為什麼要提升全民運動？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:28:52.045000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:07.065000+08:00","text":"一個是健康，還有走向國際。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:29:07.065000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:22.085000+08:00","text":"健康而已嗎？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:29:22.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:34.074000+08:00","text":"那就糟糕了，因為運動的本質不是只為了健康，運動的本質是為了紀律性、團體精神跟其他的，這就是我說我們現在開始……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:29:34.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:36.016000+08:00","text":"所以這是一個全新的運動部。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2024-10-15T10:29:36.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:47.986000+08:00","text":"院長，我們不是在辯論，我只是在講說，因為我自己打籃球，而且我自己打得很深，所以說運動發展部這件事情出來的時候，大家不容易看好，尤其是從事運動的人，因為這個部出來之後，在這裡面他扮演什麼角色會變得非常重要。","quality":0.598},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:29:47.986000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:48.986000+08:00","text":"我們會全力支持，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-15T10:29:48.986000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:49.986000+08:00","text":"委員請保重，您的聲音……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-15T10:29:49.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:49.567000+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-15T10:29:50.067000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-15T10:29:53.209857+08:00","text":"下一位請麥玉珍委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-15T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:14:39 - 10:30:05","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":374,"blocks":[["林委員沛祥：（10時14分）有請卓院長和教育部鄭部長。"],["主席：卓院長、鄭部長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員沛祥：卓院長，先是一個時事題，現在全球都滿關心的就是，我們本來派前副總統、前行政院院長陳建仁去參加這次APEC的活動，但是被拒絕了，我想請問一下院長，未來打算怎麼樣？怎麼樣推出一個合適的人選去參加APEC呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：APEC領袖代表是總統跟總統府在作業，行政院並沒有參與，但是我看到相關的報導，如果屬實，我也覺得非常惋惜。陳前副總統、陳前院長在他副總統跟院長任內對國事的瞭解是相當多的，尤其在院長任內，也帶領國家從政經各方面的進步做了很多努力，非常瞭解國家的需求，對世界的狀況也是非常嫻熟的。"],["林委員沛祥：如果行政院可以推薦人選，請問院長會推薦哪一位？"],["卓院長榮泰：抱歉，這是總統職權，行政院不宜推薦任何人，但總統有任何吩咐，我們就會去執行。"],["林委員沛祥：好。針對卓院長在10月6號特地來到基隆勘災，本席給予高度的肯定，不過我也必須跟卓院長報告一下，您特地來，然後您說要對救災進行補助，我這邊是覺得，其實您講的話似乎很多單位並沒有好好地把它納進去。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員指教。"],["林委員沛祥：譬如說您10月6號來，10月7號在基隆市中山區青龍山的產業道路（在大德國中旁邊）有一個直接的勘災活動，工務處處長跟我的秘書直接說，院長來了，說這邊會儘量補助，當下國有財產署的第一線承辦人員居然回答說沒有這個事、我沒有聽說。我不知道為什麼國有財產署針對救災、賑災的態度跟基隆市政府差這麼多！這邊我必須先跟院長做個報告，也請院長說明一下，怎麼會變這個樣子？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我記得我們那天是到新豐街土石流塌下來的地方看那個社區跟那條路，答應說當天晚上8點會通車，也是緊急地有通車了。那您說的其他地點，很抱歉！我沒有辦法把所有的人帶到所有的地方去，所以那個地點也許是國有財產署或者其他單位接受委員或議員的要求去現場看，他們回來之後當然要統合整個經費的需求跟整個工程復原的先後順序再來做處理，我想他們謹慎一點是好的，但是地方受到任何風災的傷害，中央政府跟地方一定是通力合作來把它復原，這個原則不會錯。"],["林委員沛祥：我會這樣講的原因是我期待行政院各部門，不是院長講了話之後，下面的人就陽奉陰違，其實不管是誰執政，這都是很糟糕的公務人員的狀況。這件事情其實我會希望……因為院長去過基隆，知道基隆市很多山坡地，可能有80%以上的地都是國有財產署管轄，尤其是這些山坡地，很需要中央單位來協助，甚至是補助，來把這次有關受災戶的事情做好。所以我在這邊建請院長回去跟國有財產署的高層下令，說未來我們基隆會需要他們多幫助，而我也會當中間的橋梁，這樣是否可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員放心，無論是透過交通部門到交通部、國土署到內政部，或是您說的國產署到財政部，他們都會往部裡面去綜合整理所有地方報上來的、需要一起合作協助的地方，我們就會按部就班、按程序來處理，我會特別請財政部再特別注意一下當天會勘的現場狀況，之後跟委員做詳細的說明。"],["林委員沛祥：好，謝謝院長。院長，我特別請鄭部長備詢的原因就是，其實風災所影響的不是只有民宅還有道路而已，對於學校，其實院長對基隆蠻了解的，基隆多山，基隆基本上所有的學校不是靠著山壁，就是在山上，這次風災是基隆史上雨量最大的風災，我們也知道前一陣子的有感地震、無感地震，其實針對整個地下水文的擾動是很嚴重的，所以基隆這次土石流的發生，嚴格講起來並不是因為我們沒有清淤清好，而是有很多在山坡上的地質跟地下水文已經改變，這也是為什麼院長您10月4日來基隆勘災的時候，我不在現場，因為我知道有哪些地方看起來沒事，可是以前已經出過事的地方，它附近的所有區域也有可能會發生災害，而且這種災害不是只有大雨來的時候會崩塌，像在潮境那邊，院長一定有接到報告，潮境那邊那個時候風和日麗居然也會發生坍崩，就是在海科館那邊。所以像這樣的案子其實在基隆隨時有可能發生，基隆的岩盤、基隆的地質其實已經跟當年想的不一樣。","為什麼把這些事情拿出來呢？我這邊有一些報告，其實基隆市這次在學校方面，風災非常嚴重，我知道院長10月12日一到高雄，就直接請國教署撥了800萬給受災的這些學校，不過我也必須幫基隆請願，因為基隆這一次，目前有估計到學校受災的地方就高達6,200萬當中我也直接問過市政府他們教育處跟災害補償金能夠撥用多少，他們跟我報告，6,200萬元當中，他們差不多只可以負擔到10%到15%，其他真的付不出來，也是因為這個原因，所以他們跟我講：委員，如果沒有錢的話，我們就只好把這些設施暫時性的封起來，讓學校保持安全，可是學生的受教權益就會損害到。所以我這邊有兩份資料，我想拿給我們的部長跟我們的院長來幫基隆人請命，請你們幫幫忙這件事情。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，跟委員報告，當天我不僅到基隆，我到瑞芳的瑞芳高工，上個禮拜我到高雄的前鎮國小，我想我們最關心的，第一個是住家的淹水，再來就是學校的破壞，部長這邊手上已經有資料了，現在已經有11所基隆市的學校受損，提出了一些需求，我們請部長稍微說明一下。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝林委員……"],["林委員沛祥：部長，不好意思，我這邊特地提一個，你看到我給你的資料，在第58項德和國小，那邊的受災其實相當、相當、相當嚴重，那邊是整塊、整個大樓基本上已經被土石流淹沒，其實這整個預算裡面最貴的是德和國小這邊，不好意思，這邊基隆市真的付不出來，尤其是這一塊，要請中央單位、請部長及院長多多幫忙，這個是事實，這是昨天才照出來的實況，如果無法修好的話，德和國小我們就只好把它封起來。"],["卓院長榮泰：右邊這張圖，昨天才照出來的？"],["林委員沛祥：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：還是這個樣子？"],["林委員沛祥：對，沒辦法，因為這怎麼清呢？上面已經寫得很清楚，光這一筆就四千多萬，其他的一千多萬，其他的還可以基隆市我們大家慢慢來……也需要中央補助，可是這一筆，所以我剛剛為什麼講地下水文的破壞其實對於基隆市是有潛在致命性的傷害，但是我們不可能在沒有災害發生之前直接去做監測。這筆費用太貴，我很清楚，因為我之前問過，光一個山頭就要兩、三億，但是發生災害了，我們至少把他們的受教權、把學生的權益，一起幫他們恢復回來，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：那麼現在學生的上課還是相當的……"],["林委員沛祥：這是一棟大樓，總共三到四棟大樓，不過一棟大樓已經完全被淹過去，現在只能靠剩下的三棟大樓來支撐，如果可以的話，甚至說我下次辦會勘，請教育部也派人來。"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長安排一下時間，相關人員可以馬上到基隆，去毀損嚴重的幾個學校看一看，能夠適時的、急速的幫大家來完成，這個我們要列為必要優先。"],["林委員沛祥：謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心，會後我們下午就請國教署負責的同仁前往德和國小立即來勘查，然後請專家看怎麼樣來協助。"],["卓院長榮泰：很多是地方政府也要出來協助。"],["林委員沛祥：他們很樂意，這是地方政府主動跟我講說這筆太大，一般來講，風災的整個remedy──整個所謂的急救款了不起800萬到900萬，這些整個加起來六千多萬，我只是針對教育部學校方面，以前差不多800萬到900萬。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以請委員也居間協助，把地方政府請出來，讓教育部來看看地方政府還有多少的災損金可以用，那其他的部分、應急的部分我們會來處理。"],["林委員沛祥：好，謝謝。","再來，其實我要問的，嚴格講起來這個也不能講不嚴肅，只是我也必須請教院長跟我們的鄭部長，因為體育署未來要變成體育暨運動發展部，那現在還在我們的教育部裡面，但是我很好奇就是說，到底為什麼要去做這個運動發展部？我們的目標到底是什麼？因為很實際的，我想全國喜歡運動的人都想問這個問題，我們這個運動發展部所建立的原因是為了在國際賽事上拿金牌，幫我們國人增加榮譽感、認同感？還是針對運動產業在臺灣已經有可能發展？還是說要讓我們的運動，也就是體育這方面的事情真的深植到我們社會？到底是怎麼樣，總是要有一個比較明確的目標，因為老實講……不然的話，我們現在在民間常聽到說，你升格成為部，人變多了，但是功能沒有變，那這一點的話，我想……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你剛剛說的都是，沒有還是，都是。第一個我要強調，它不是一個升格的問題，它是一個全新的運動部，它裡面最重要的三項精神，第一個就是推展全民運動，第二個是國際競技，第三個是運動產業，當然還有其他，我是說最重要就這三項，那這三項會變成三支柱子支撐全新的一個運動部。"],["林委員沛祥：那這個就很尷尬了，因為這三個老實講都很難做得到，因為老實說，如果你是要在國際賽事拿名的話，你的經費要怎麼樣去挹注？其實我第一個要問，因為我自己本身是基隆SBL的領隊，那現在籃球的事情搞得紛紛擾擾，我想請問一下院長跟部長，你們自己有從事運動嗎？有打運動嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：任何運動都可以去參與。"],["林委員沛祥：有沒有自己喜歡打的？像我是籃球迷，我高中、大學都打校隊，我昨天還在練球，你們……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，現在因為考量年紀的關係，我現在除了打網球，大概就是桌球，桌球是比較方便的。"],["林委員沛祥：這就是我們現在尷尬的地方，就是說我們現在講的很多運動，有關這個賽事，甚至想要把它職業化、產業化的賽事，全部都是大型運動，都不是one on one，請問你知道有乒乓球的職業選手嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：國內的？國內有很多好手，對啊！"],["林委員沛祥：國內有沒有像職業乒乓球的賽事？"],["卓院長榮泰：賽事？"],["林委員沛祥：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們未來也希望用臺灣的元素來舉辦大型的國際賽事。"],["林委員沛祥：這就是我要講的，就是說你們如果真的要成立一個部的話，光運動產業這一塊，你沒有提說……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會，這之一而已。"],["林委員沛祥：對，雖然運動產業是之一，但是有多少職業運動應該在臺灣去深耕發展？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個就是未來發展了，報告委員，如果我們沒有全民運動的話，我們支撐不了……"],["林委員沛祥：那就是另外一個問題，請問為什麼要提升全民運動？"],["卓院長榮泰：一個是健康，還有走向國際。"],["林委員沛祥：健康而已嗎？那就糟糕了，因為運動的本質不是只為了健康，運動的本質是為了紀律性、團體精神跟其他的，這就是我說我們現在開始……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以這是一個全新的運動部。"],["林委員沛祥：院長，我們不是在辯論，我只是在講說，因為我自己打籃球，而且我自己打得很深，所以說運動發展部這件事情出來的時候，大家不容易看好，尤其是從事運動的人，因為這個部出來之後，在這裡面他扮演什麼角色會變得非常重要。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會全力支持，謝謝。","委員請保重，您的聲音……"],["主席：謝謝林委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":179,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃珊珊","林楚茵","葛如鈞","林德福","鄭正鈐","林沛祥","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","范雲","謝衣鳯","莊瑞雄","黃建賓","陳秀寳","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅美玲","黃捷","張雅琳","李坤城","王美惠"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00003","1137801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137801_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}