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曾文森我們請提供的單位說明你直接回答我告訴你 就是你主席 你相不相信委員你不要這樣子我不知道這個是什麼問題你不知道是誰啊來 沒關係109年3月2號下午1點30分在經濟事檢報室離岸風電規劃長子履約事項審查會記錄你有沒有主持"},{"start":116.735,"end":142.536,"text":"你有沒有主持來能源署長可不可以請能源署長回來這資料不是我提的是不是你都不知道下去了不用了沒關係不用你了連你自己都不敢承認是你自己沒關係我想請問一下部長他不願意回答沒關係來白紙黑字那麼清楚沒關係我不問部長你沒有責任擔當你就下去部長請問什麼叫此地無銀三百兩你知道意思是什麼嗎"},{"start":144.451,"end":173.138,"text":"就是欲蓋彌彰部長我再告訴你貴部偉大欲蓋彌彰的事蹟我跟經濟部索取達德能源的股權變更的會議紀錄經濟部給了我3月會議紀錄總共8月請問你知道經濟部用多少時間給我8月啊報告委員我不清楚一個月的時間啊8月的會議資料印一個月啊貴部是我當民代有史以來見過效率最差的部會啦是對不起"},{"start":173.697,"end":190.99,"text":"要不要檢討?會不要檢討,直接記公、記家講他們為了要所謂的遮蓋能拖就拖來,我跟你講,不只這個更好笑的笑話是我跟他要與能的所謂的股權移轉的相關會議記錄經濟部給我三份,你知道實際上幾份嗎?"},{"start":196.257,"end":222.872,"text":"我告訴你四份非常好笑109年3月2號第一份蓋黑的不敢講主席的第二份109年3月17號也是蓋黑的不敢講主席的第四份是110年5月26號蓋黑的唯獨第三份不給我第三份是誰?抱歉我就拿到了啊第三份主席就是曾文森啊我跟你講你知道為什麼不敢給嗎?"},{"start":224.824,"end":247.931,"text":"你知道為什麼不敢給嗎當然不敢給阿第三份有塗黑嗎第三份我自己拿到的是阿應該沒有塗黑吧對我自己拿到所以沒有塗黑那你可以調前面的這個三份調前面三份部長你真的太有擔當了我是立法委員我跟經濟部要所知你給我蓋黑的資料就回頭跟我講說我自己不會去找"},{"start":249.251,"end":267.195,"text":"這個意思嗎?部長我一直很尊敬你 如果是這種態度的話 抱歉沒關係我再來講下一個我問你 你知道為什麼今天三個要蓋黑 到現在曾文森不敢講是他為什麼第三個不蓋黑?我跟你講沒關係 因為你隱藏的文件包含就圖利啦"},{"start":275.325,"end":303.732,"text":"至少國庫損失400億啊 這第三份文件啊來 我告訴你沒關係 部長 我知道你打拖延戰術說過的事情沒有關係啦部長 你不需要為曾文森捍衛到這種程度來 我不跟你吵架 來我想請問您吼 第一份會議紀錄2018年11月2018年4月達得獲得准許經營允能風場 它的股權比例是多少"},{"start":306.104,"end":331.039,"text":"我請這個百分之百啦不對告訴我啦對不對當時百分之百對獨資喔來到了2018年11月齁達德開始試股他的股權剩多少73啦不對再告訴我啦到了2020年3月再做股權變更他的股權剩多少48啦"},{"start":335.233,"end":353.398,"text":"到了2022年6月他的股權剩多少?0啦那我想請問你當初我們經濟部允許他所謂的來去籌設我們的電廠條件是什麼?發起人股權不可以4到50%以下吧對不對?是不是?"},{"start":356.445,"end":362.829,"text":"報告委員,在我們的行政契約裡面,針對重大變更,要經過經濟部審查以後...原則不能低於經濟部審查以後專案,那是另外一回事,你不要跟我扯東扯西"},{"start":379.278,"end":401.99,"text":"沒關係要跟他講專案來來來這就第三份會議之路為什麼專案出來了啊為什麼你要遮掩啊我直接跟你講啦第三份會議記錄裡面就已經是發現達德從100一直在降降到48的時候經濟部也受不了啦經濟部是不是跟他講說你不得再去變更股權結構在第三次會議的時候"},{"start":403.885,"end":423.199,"text":"報告委員那時候有發現所以說在取得電業執照之前不可以再去做對很好不可以然後呢所以搭配的有聽我講完齁聽我講完如果違約的罰則是什麼我們那時候有搭配的你跟我講如果違約的罰則是什麼我問你不要問東達西違約的罰則是什麼當時違約除以19.21的懲罰性違約金沒錯吧"},{"start":434.704,"end":459.941,"text":"會議紀錄講的喔?這個是說如果他沒有辦法...如果我跟你講很簡單他從100變到0你的原則要50%現在你跟我專案核准你第三次會議紀錄就覺得不對了來第二個不只喔20億不是最嚴重的來第二個罰則如果違約的話要用迴避成本來短購與能全部電能你知道迴避成本是什麼意思啊?"},{"start":462.327,"end":481.113,"text":"回避成本多少錢回避成本要根據他當時的台電當年度的回避成本2.13元啦你連答都答不出來我來當你的職位算了那我想請問你齁你知道光這一條基本上如果用回避成本來懲罰的話你知道金額可以高達多少你知道嗎我告訴你啦400億"},{"start":485.831,"end":504.377,"text":"我們本來的價差是5.8塊錢每度若變迴避成本是2.13光價差3.67元每度而允能風場發電量的預定是22.4億度所以5年算起來是411億元我最後問部長一件事情很簡單第三次的違約的條件構成之後你們到最後股權變零你們有沒有罰有沒有罰20億"},{"start":515.336,"end":528.107,"text":"有沒有 有還是沒有啊沒有啦依照規定開罰3.5億3.5億啊 恭喜你啊 好棒啊20億罰3.5億 411億罰3.5億啊沒關係 我現在想請教部長請教部長 我想請教部長來 部長我想請教你我今天就公開質疑啊照檢方的偵辦標準齁"},{"start":539.336,"end":559.627,"text":"將近有400億的裁量空間如果今天你說都要跟我裁罰3.5億有沒有圖利問題該罰不罰就是圖利如果委員你認為他是有圖利問題我們就送檢調來不用我送你去政風部好不好你可以去政風感謝部長有擔當要把我們曾文生移到政風室移到檢調謝謝你謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:53:46 - 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Kacaw","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","陳超明","郭國文","賴士葆","萬美玲","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","黃國昌","王育敏","陳昭姿","高金素梅","廖偉翔","黃健豪","葉元之","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","涂權吉","何欣純","徐富癸","徐欣瑩","林思銘","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進\n行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138401_00017"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}