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那麻煩我們會後是不是能夠請我們的氣象署提供一下我們可能在瑞芳或者是金山萬里在發生強降雨之前我們有可能做了哪些民眾提醒的作為那我們也可以後續來來跟地方來比對一下是不是有收到相關的訊息或是有什麼為什麼可能地方如果說收到相關的訊息那他們有沒有做相對應變的措施好不好 那就謝謝我們的氣象署謝謝"},{"start":268.852,"end":293.173,"text":"另外這個部長前幾天有個新聞看您有沒有要先澄清一下或是說新聞報導跟你講的有點不一樣問台鐵的就是說大家都說漲電價了那台鐵是不是也要漲價那部長您的說法好像是說先從節能做起嘛對不對我不曉得部長你有沒有瞭解這句話沒錯嘛沒有曲解那你有沒有瞭解我們台鐵他繳電費的這個結構的問題"},{"start":297.163,"end":308.448,"text":"他們之前有給我一些數據但是我一個數據也報告給委員在今年度就是113年他們有申請到這個節能的這個補助4500萬那也確實做到了1.3%的這個節能那針對這次的電費調漲我特別有打電話給這個經濟部的能源署拜託他們針對台鐵的用電的部分專案再來輔導那輔導其實有兩個方法我其實不知道講電價這件事情"},{"start":323.274,"end":351.529,"text":"我是要跟部長說有時候我們的一句話可能會造成我們台鐵很大基層的一些困擾我們台鐵最大的用電量在哪裡列車吧應該是列車嘛那列車佔的比例大概多少比例上是多少喔13%但是現在列車都正在更新當中啦那會更絕對列車佔了13%然後暫停的空調冷氣之類的或是必要的營運就是給旅客方面的啦"},{"start":352.93,"end":362.175,"text":"百分之多少?不到百分之十。不到百分之十?百分之二、三這些?阿剩下的?剩下的用在哪邊?直接回答好嗎?"},{"start":363.693,"end":388.322,"text":"跟委員報告我們用電那個大部分還是集中在我們的行車行車上面行車嘛就剛剛講13%對那就是其他的不過剛剛講起來還有70多%報告委員還有哪些大宗不是13%是那個我們行車的部分增加了13%我是說全部佔比佔比啦總共佔比大概多少"},{"start":389.747,"end":406.829,"text":"行車的佔比應該有超過五成有超過五成嗎那月台的部分呢月台冷氣或是必要的設施車站的部分其次啦因為我們車站很多我們有240個車站那車站的用電大概也佔了差不多百分之三十幾"},{"start":407.33,"end":409.632,"text":"報告委員 我們現在正在換車 換車的過程會換更節電的列車"},{"start":429.224,"end":456.356,"text":"對就是它是必要的就算你換完了之後它的用電的固定就是起伏趴不會因為駕駛就是起伏趴住不會太大列車的固定已經這麼多了那你月台的部分難不成你要月台不開冷氣嗎那你報告委員不可能有不開冷氣的狀況對就是說我的意思是說節電齁節電我舉個例子啦我的意思是說我們的必要的用電量就是這麼大了對沒有問題冷氣還是要開啊我們有百分之八十幾是我們營運所必須要用的這個必須要用電的"},{"start":457.177,"end":459.749,"text":"我們台鐵其他可能員工辦公室只剩下那十幾%"},{"start":461.109,"end":485.673,"text":"這是部長講的這句話可能會讓人家誤解從10年前的冷氣換成現在的節能冷氣或許節電的效果會非常好會那這個部分我們其實也希望臺鐵能夠努力我們在講的方向是這個方向絕對不是要曲解成說電要少開或者是什麼票票對因為我們常常政府第一個要節電的不只是交通部就是公家機關先節能省貪節電做起冷氣的溫度不要調冷氣不要再調降了造成"},{"start":490.394,"end":510.073,"text":"這已經擠了這麼多年了我相信各個公交機關的辦公廳社已經不太會有浪費電的情況了但是部長講這句話的時候我不知道台鐵的感受是怎麼樣但是我會認為我的開車我的列車就用這麼多電了嘛我的月台我的冷氣我的必要服務旅客就這麼多電了嘛我剩下能夠節電的是什麼"},{"start":511.475,"end":513.138,"text":"我希望部長講清楚電價有沒有漲節電都一定要做從我們列車的更換我們一些冷氣的一些態換等等"},{"start":526.098,"end":548.811,"text":"最後部長講的這句話是由所有基層的工作同仁的工作場域來達成不同的一個命令所有工作場域該開的冷氣一定開是所有的月台要服務民眾的服務品質絕對不能降低節電的前提是這些好就是利用更換我們的節電的列車無論列車或者是空調設備等等的燈具等等來達到節電的一個目的沒錯"},{"start":550.452,"end":555.845,"text":"好不好那我希望這個方向能夠正確不要讓台鐵或是基層有不同的誤解好不好謝謝謝謝部長"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:41:04 - 10:50:22","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":451,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（10時41分）謝謝召委。一樣邀請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["廖委員先翔：部長，剛剛來突然有感而發一件事情，我發現你們部會的陽剛氣息有點重。"],["陳部長世凱：男生比較多。"],["廖委員先翔：我覺得一直以來交通部好像都是男性的首長居多，當然這可能跟部會本來的組成就有關係，可能女性在交通部的比例本來就比較低一點，但我覺得你還是可以檢視一下女性首長所占的比例跟女性所占的員額比例相比是不是有明顯的落差。"],["陳部長世凱：這一排只有何局長……"],["廖委員先翔：對啊，只有何局長是女性，我看你們的幕僚單位也只有一個女性。"],["陳部長世凱：對，也只有一位女性。"],["廖委員先翔：是啊，我覺得您可以審視一下，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["廖委員先翔：不過這不是今天的重點。部長，之前在這邊跟您討論關於行人安全的時候，您說今年的目標相較於去年要降7%嘛？"],["陳部長世凱：應該是說，我們的目標是2030年要達到5%，平均起來每年是7%的目標。"],["廖委員先翔：7%嘛！當然因為上半年部長不是你，上半年有稍微的提升，今年到目前為止，你們是往好的方向走，還是越離越遠？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們看今年度的行人傷亡人數是往好的方向走，是往下、往好的方向。"],["廖委員先翔：所以你現在還是有信心在年底達到7%的目標？"],["陳部長世凱：我這樣跟委員報告，這是我設定的目標，因為我剛才講了，50%分成幾年下來算，一年是7%，我們希望能夠達到，不過因為我們的改善工程現在正在做，包含法令上面的規定、包含行人早開時相，我相信委員在路上走應該感受得到……"],["廖委員先翔：知道。"],["陳部長世凱：我們正在建立這個觀念，所以我相信未來的數字可能會更好，現在我們正在努力當中，不過設定的目標還是一樣7%。"],["廖委員先翔：一樣7%嘛，好，但是至少沒有背離、越來越遠就好了。"],["陳部長世凱：是，我們努力。"],["廖委員先翔：好，謝謝部長。另外，麻煩一下氣象署程署長，我要請教的就是前些日子在我們瑞芳、還有金山、萬里其實都發生相當大的豪雨，造成了災害。當然，瑞芳的時候是颱風尾，其實金山、萬里那時候颱風警報也解除了。我想確認一下，我們氣象署有預期到雨量會這麼大嗎？或者你們到什麼樣子的時間點才發現雨量到這麼大的情況下可能會致災？"],["程署長家平：我們其實在前一天晚上已經有報出來，那個雨量是非常大的，只是短時強降雨這件事情，它的雨量大到非常大的狀態，我們是採用監測的作為，因為預報的確沒有那麼準，我們的數值預報的參考資料大概報到七成，實際降雨七成……"],["廖委員先翔：瑞芳有報，金山、萬里有報嗎？"],["程署長家平：有。"],["廖委員先翔：好，因為當天的天氣，說真的，早上可能還是相對平緩的，當然，你們前一天有提醒，那當下呢？就是可能下午差不多兩點左右開始金山、萬里急降雨，你們是哪時候發現到這個情況可能會有點失控，或者是超出你們的預期？"],["程署長家平：10月4日其實整天我們大概做了9次大雷雨即時訊息，還有13次的通報，裡面包含了5次細胞廣播，這個是從早上0點開始就一直不斷地在做，因為報載的事情發生的時間大概是在下午3點……"],["廖委員先翔：對。"],["程署長家平：我們其實有做了整個盤點，我們從早上的……我們不要說太晚，譬如從早上10點到下午3點這5個小時裡面，我們相關發布了包含豪大雨的預報，還有即時訊息，還有PWS，加起來總共是8次左右。"],["廖委員先翔：好，麻煩會後是不是能夠請氣象署提供一下在瑞芳或者是金山、萬里發生強降雨之前，做了哪些民眾提醒的作為，我們也可以後續來跟地方比對一下，是不是有收到相關的訊息，或是有什麼……地方如果有收到相關的訊息，他們有沒有做相對應變的措施，好不好？那就謝謝氣象署，謝謝。"],["程署長家平：是，謝謝。"],["廖委員先翔：另外，部長，前幾天有個新聞，看你們要不要先澄清一下，或是說新聞報導跟你們講的有點不一樣，這是問臺鐵的。大家都說漲電價了，臺鐵是不是也要漲價？部長您的說法好像是先從節能做起，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["廖委員先翔：我不曉得部長有沒有了解，這句話沒錯嘛，沒有曲解，那你有沒有了解我們臺鐵繳電費的結構問題？"],["陳部長世凱：他們之前有給我一些數據，我把一個數據也報告給委員，在今（113）年度他們有申請到節能的補助4,500萬，也確實做到了1.3%的節能。針對這次的電費調漲，我特別打電話給經濟部能源署，拜託他們針對臺鐵用電的部分專案再來輔導，輔導其實有兩個部分……"],["廖委員先翔：我其實不是要講電價這件事情，我是要跟部長說，有時候我們的一句話可能會造成臺鐵基層的一些困擾。臺鐵最大的用電量在哪裡？"],["陳部長世凱：列車吧，新車……"],["廖委員先翔：應該是列車嘛，列車占的比例大概多少？"],["陳部長世凱：13%，但是現在列車都正在更新當中，會更節能。"],["廖委員先翔：列車占了13%？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["廖委員先翔：然後站體的空調冷氣之類的，或是必要的營運，就是給旅客方面的？"],["陳部長世凱：不到10%。"],["廖委員先翔：不到10%，兩個加起來是23%，剩下的用在哪邊？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，我們的用電大部分還是集中在行車上面。"],["廖委員先翔：行車嘛，就是剛剛講的13%？"],["杜董事長微：對。"],["廖委員先翔：除了剛剛講的之外，還有七十多%，還有哪些大宗？"],["杜董事長微：報告委員，不是13%，是我們行車的部分增加了13%，不是全部占比13%。"],["廖委員先翔：我是說占比，總共占比大概多少？"],["杜董事長微：行車的占比應該有超過五成。"],["廖委員先翔：有超過五成嘛，那月臺的部分呢？月臺冷氣或必要的設施。"],["杜董事長微：車站的部分其次啦，因為我們車站很多，我們有240個車站，車站的用電大概也占了差不多百分之三十幾。"],["廖委員先翔：百分之三十多，所以大概有百分之八十多的比例其實是必要的電費支出。當然，剛剛部長講從節電做起，但列車行駛怎麼節電？或許有辦法，可能駕駛員的操作……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們現在正在換車，換車的過程會換更節電的列車。"],["廖委員先翔：對，就是它是必要的，就算你換完了之後，它的用電不會因為駕駛而造成起伏趴數太大，列車的固定用電已經這麼多了，月臺的部分難不成要月臺不開冷氣嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，不可能有不開冷氣的狀況，節電，我舉個例子……"],["廖委員先翔：對，我的意思是說我們必要的用電量就是這麼大了……"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒有問題，冷氣還是要開，一定會開。"],["廖委員先翔：百分之八十幾是營運所必須要用電的，臺鐵其他可能員工辦公室只剩下那十幾%，部長講的這句話可能會讓人家誤解……"],["陳部長世凱：委員，從10年前的冷氣換成現在的節能冷氣，或許節電的效果會非常好……"],["廖委員先翔：會。"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分我們其實也希望臺鐵能夠努力，我們在講的方向是這個方向，絕對不是要曲解成電要少開或者是什麼票的閘門要少開，不是這個樣子……"],["廖委員先翔：對，因為常常政府第一個要節電的，不只是交通部，公家機關先節能省碳、節電之後……"],["陳部長世凱：節能減碳基本上是全球的趨勢，大家都要有……"],["廖委員先翔：冷氣的溫度不要調，冷氣的溫度不要再調降了，這個已經提了這麼多年了，我相信各個公家機關的辦公廳舍已經不太會有浪費電的情況了，但是部長講這句話的時候，我不知道臺鐵的感受是怎麼樣，但是我會認為列車就用這麼多電了，月臺、冷氣、必要服務旅客的就用這麼多電了，剩下能夠節電的是什麼？對不對？我就希望說……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，節電還是要做……"],["廖委員先翔：對，所以我希望部長講清楚。"],["陳部長世凱：不管電價有沒有漲，節電都一定要做，這是必須要做的。"],["廖委員先翔：對，我就是希望部長講清楚，就從列車的更換、一些冷氣的汰換等等，我不希望最後部長講的這句話，是由所有基層工作同仁的工作場域來達成部長的命令。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，所有工作場域該開的冷氣一定開，所有的月臺要服務民眾的服務品質絕對不能降低，節電的前提是這些，然後列車上面該有的服務也不能少。"],["廖委員先翔：好，就是利用更換無論是節電的列車或者是空調設備、燈具等等來達到節電的目的，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["廖委員先翔：我也希望這個方向能夠正確，不要讓臺鐵或是基層有不同的誤解，好不好？謝謝部長。"],["陳部長世凱：沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝廖先翔委員。","在這邊先補充公告，等一下在邱若華委員質詢後休息10分鐘。","接下來邀請黃健豪委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":106,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-6","speakers":["陳素月","李昆澤","林沛祥","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","魯明哲","廖先翔","黃健豪","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","林德福","黃建賓","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","何欣純","葉元之","廖偉翔","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","洪孟楷","李柏毅","陳瑩","黃國昌","邱志偉","游顥","麥玉珍","林宜瑾","劉建國","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138501_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}