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以當時的錢"},{"start":121.339,"end":149.025,"text":"1999年以當時的錢是非常非常大就這樣改好就停在那邊而事實上現在都還在還是有一些支出還是有支出這個就另外算所以我們因為這個蛇市場的關係整個停用花了這麼多錢所以"},{"start":149.977,"end":159.663,"text":"台電一直要經過政府的人民的納稅錢去撥補總共從2023、2024、2025總共加起來已經4千多億4千多億之後當然還是漲價電價還是漲在這樣的一個情況之下"},{"start":179.207,"end":207.299,"text":"所以我們台灣到底是不是能夠依現在的方案在生能源推動今天的報告都提出來了我們就講太陽光電台灣一個這麼小的地方然後要把所有的建築物上面都要有"},{"start":210.856,"end":232.343,"text":"光電台灣到底是以後長什麼樣子這個也要評估啊台灣的現況現在的再生農業的推動跟核市場是否要啟動核酸是不是要研議"},{"start":234.124,"end":259.673,"text":"然後一開始我一開始就說你這個部長你所發想的從菲律賓利電買過來就如同新加坡新加坡到澳洲更遠更遠所以也是一種方向但是要審慎評估"},{"start":261.874,"end":290.151,"text":"因為台灣這麼小的地方光這個台灣這個太陽能光電了農業光那個農業我們台灣是不是以後就不要農業這個都是一個一個是要去思考所以經濟部跟台電怎麼樣去好好的去評估去規劃"},{"start":292.997,"end":320.345,"text":"這推動這麼這麼多年李漢鋒店也是一樣地熱台灣就這麼小地熱這邊提到要挖1至3公里深的淺層地熱能然後甚至3到6公里3到6公里要挖"},{"start":322.069,"end":345.797,"text":"那到底會影響台灣相關的這些專業到底有沒有投入有時候是這樣部長有時候一個行政院的政策確定之後很多的部會該是地質的專業的就避開了"},{"start":350.633,"end":376.221,"text":"相關的水土保持山坡地保育地質各方面就避開了就萎縮了那個專業就不見了台灣這只是一個這麼小的地方我們稱為寶島是不是承受得了現在的再生能源的一個方向"},{"start":378.281,"end":404.741,"text":"這個是所以我才會說我沒有馬上火定你對那個要從菲律賓購買力電這樣的一個方向除非你要回頭到你一開始你一上任之後包括這個國發會的主委都提到何事啊現在都退了"},{"start":406.852,"end":428.682,"text":"我認為都要整體評估了部長報告委員我想政府對核能政策是開放的經濟部會來關注國家發展的情勢臺電公司也會持續關注未來各項科技的發展包括新核能技術在內不會預設任何立場"},{"start":429.71,"end":455.961,"text":"那麼對核電是不是現在的核電是不是要繼續使用需要滿足三個條件第一個就是確保核能安全第二個核廢料可以處理第三社會有共識我相信這三個條件委員應該都會支持的我們不會反對任何的這個綠電任何的這個方式但是我追求的就是成本"},{"start":456.681,"end":457.702,"text":"執行委員：鄭天財Sra Kacaw"},{"start":478.163,"end":480.665,"text":"因為這個整個政策政策的問題導致以我一開始講合適"},{"start":508.602,"end":535.774,"text":"三千多億三千多億因為核四停擺所以又撥補了四千多億你看多少的錢啊多麼多的錢照樣漲價不得不漲價是這樣的一個情形一再的漲 一直漲 一直漲"},{"start":537.938,"end":565.655,"text":"今年又漲已經知道要撥補了還漲這個就是說整個能源政策部長來自企業有時候該正確的評估之後當然這不是你的專業但是你可以召集相關的專業人員不只是"},{"start":567.585,"end":579.429,"text":"經濟部所屬的還包括民間的專業人員整體的去好好的去評估這個是我一直所期待的是的 謝謝委員好 謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:09:40 - 11:19:23","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":621,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時9分）主席、各位委員。有請部長及台電。"],["主席：請郭部長、曾董事長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。這個新聞今天大家都很關心，本席會有另外的看法，總是有個方向，方向不一定要做，但是要審慎評估，畢竟臺灣這麼多年來對電的問題一再改變，這個是不是一個方向，只要審慎評估。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們就先從核四來說，核四廠興建完成，請問一下曾董事長，核四廠總共花多少錢？"],["郭部長智輝：2,600億。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這邊是寫法定預算兩千六百多億……"],["郭部長智輝：投資金額是2,936億。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：二千九百多億？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：然後又追加預算400億，以當時（1999年）的錢來說是非常非常大，就這樣蓋好停在那邊，而事實上現在都還是有一些支出，這個就另外算。因為核四廠的關係，整個停用，花了這麼多錢，所以台電一直要政府用人民的納稅錢去撥補，從2023、2024到2025，總共加起來已經四千多億，四千多億之後電價還是漲。在這樣的情況之下，臺灣到底是不是能夠依現在的方案推動再生能源？","今天的報告都提出來了，我們就講太陽光電，臺灣是一個這麼小的地方，然後要所有的建築物上面都要有光電，臺灣以後到底是長什麼樣子？這個也要評估啊！臺灣的現況、現在的再生能源推動，跟核四廠是否要啟動、核三是不是要延役？部長所發想的是從菲律賓將綠電買過來，就如同新加坡，新加坡到澳洲更遠，所以也是一種方向，但是要審慎評估，因為以臺灣這麼小的地方，光太陽能光電，臺灣是不是以後就不要農業？這個都要去思考。","所以經濟部跟台電怎麼樣好好地去評估、去規劃，推動了這麼多年，離岸風電也是一樣。而地熱，臺灣就這麼小，這邊提到要挖1至3公里深的淺層地熱能，然後甚至3到6公里，要挖3到6公里到底會影響臺灣，相關的這些專業到底有沒有投入？有時候是這樣，部長，有時候一個行政院的政策確定之後，很多的部會，該是地質專業的就避開了，相關的水土保持、山坡地保育、地質各方面就避開了、就萎縮了，那個專業就不見了。","臺灣確實是一個這麼小的地方啊！我們稱為寶島，是不是承受得了現在這個再生能源的方向？所以我才會說，我沒有馬上否定你對要從菲律賓購買綠電這樣的方向，除非你要回頭到你一開始，你一上任之後，包括國發會的主委，都提到核四，現在都退了，我認為都要整體評估，部長。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想政府對核能政策是開放的，經濟部會來關注國家發展的情勢，台電公司也會持續關注未來各項科技的發展，包括新核能技術在內，不會預設任何立場。對於現在核電是不是要繼續使用，需要滿足三個條件，第一個，確保核能安全；第二個，核廢料可以處理；第三個，社會有共識。我相信這三個條件委員應該都會支持的。我們不會反對任何的綠電、任何的方式，但是我追求的就是成本，讓台電所有的發電成本可以降低，讓我們把電給全國使用者在用的時候，我們考慮它，所以剛才也有委員指教我說電價是不是可以不要再漲。電價可不可以漲或不漲，這個不是經濟部可以決定的，但是我們可以努力的，所以要讓電價審議委員可以得到正確的訊息，讓未來台電公司的努力可以讓大家看得到，這一點我先跟委員做一個報告。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：整個政策的問題，就如我一開始講的，核四花三千多億，因為核四停擺，所以又撥補了四千多億，你看多少的錢啊！多麼多的錢，照樣漲價，不得不漲價，是這樣的一個情形，一再的漲，一直漲、一直漲，今年又漲，已經知道要撥補了還漲。部長來自企業，有時候該正確的評估，當然這不是你的專業，但是你可以召集相關的專業人員，不只是經濟部所屬的，還包括民間的專業人員，整體的去好好評估，這個是我一直期待的。"],["郭部長智輝：是的，謝謝委員。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-5","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","陳超明","郭國文","賴士葆","萬美玲","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","黃國昌","王育敏","陳昭姿","高金素梅","廖偉翔","黃健豪","葉元之","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","涂權吉","何欣純","徐富癸","徐欣瑩","林思銘","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「我國電力能源配比執行現況與未來規劃」進\n行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138401_00017"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}