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08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:34:24.638000+08:00","text":"好，請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-16T11:34:24.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:34:24.878000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:34:25.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:34:29.302000+08:00","text":"部長，你從上任到現在，的確是有認真的一面啦！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:34:29.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:34:34.005000+08:00","text":"不過本席要用四個字來定義你，就是恃寵而驕。","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:34:40.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:35:03.291000+08:00","text":"前一任內閣拍過畢業照後，大概都走了，你是少數難得留下來的一、兩位，但就因為你被留下來，所以你可能覺得自己表現的很好、有特殊才能，所以獲得肯定被留任。","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:35:05.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:35:07.853000+08:00","text":"本席說你恃寵而驕是什麼意思？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:35:07.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:35:16.750000+08:00","text":"因為恃寵而驕衍生而來的，就是墨守成規、抱殘守缺，就這麼簡單。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:35:16.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:35:43.449000+08:00","text":"本席拿稅制來說就好，關於稅制，之前已經向你提了很多次，我們有很多不合宜的稅制，像娛樂稅、印花稅、汽車關稅、機車貨物稅、保健品關稅，這些都是現在最被社會詬病的，本席相信你也很清楚啊！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:35:46.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:03.704000+08:00","text":"之前已經和你談了一個會期，要求你針對這五大不合時宜、應該調整的稅制做一些調整，但是你馬上回答，委員，這要先找到替代財源。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:04.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:26.426000+08:00","text":"本席現在請問你，6年前的富人稅，就是所得稅的最高級距45%，那一年不曉得怎麼搞的，可能風大了一點，結果就取消了，請問富人稅的替代財源在哪裡？","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:26.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:27.507000+08:00","text":"你找到了沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:29.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:29.768000+08:00","text":"根本沒有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:30.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:31.229000+08:00","text":"但你們不是取消了嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:31.229000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:33.512500+08:00","text":"我能說明嗎？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:33.512500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:35.796000+08:00","text":"第一個，所得稅這個富人稅……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:35.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:38.957000+08:00","text":"本席是先告訴你，還沒有讓你回答啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:39.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:36:41.198000+08:00","text":"本席觀察你很久了，你就是那樣的態度。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:36:41.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:04.871000+08:00","text":"本席告訴你，如果你只是要守住這些稅收，讓它一毛都不少，或者墨守成規，這些國產通通不要動，坦白說，你的位置叫賦稅署長來做就好啊！","quality":0.768},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:06.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:07.632000+08:00","text":"叫國庫署長來做就好啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:08.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:12.014000+08:00","text":"甚至讓101董事長來做也可以啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:14.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:18.276000+08:00","text":"至少101董事長夠年輕、有衝勁，不是這樣嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:18.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:18.556000+08:00","text":"他願意嘗試嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:18.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:30.812000+08:00","text":"願意把立法院的聲音聽進去，然後好好研究，不是嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:30.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:34.614000+08:00","text":"你聽了一整個會期，但本席認為你就像沒聽到一樣。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:37.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:37.414000+08:00","text":"本席不懂啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:38.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:37:42.756000+08:00","text":"本席不懂你是什麼樣的心態。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:37:43.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:38:04.457000+08:00","text":"上個會期本席說要送你一個十字架，這個十字架的橫批是國產，直批是稅收，你的態度就像現在一樣，誰都休想搶走我的十字架，你就是這個態度。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:38:05.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:38:14.342000+08:00","text":"但是現在社會需要的是很多創新和改革，比方稅制，你知道嗎？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:38:15.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:38:32.711000+08:00","text":"我們有1,400萬輛機車，每年增加20萬輛，機車貨物稅平均下去，每輛機車差不多要課25,000元到30,000元的稅金。","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:38:34.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:38:53.436000+08:00","text":"可是機車是現在年輕朋友們、上班族、送貨族最需要的交通工具，而且是他們的生財工具，結果機車的價格這麼高，現在買一部機車隨隨便便就要七、八萬元，就是因為這3萬元的稅金，這個稅金該降，但是你們不降。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:39:00.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:39:13.198000+08:00","text":"好，你說要找到替代財源，本席今天就要請問你，本席剛剛說的這些，包括印花稅、娛樂稅，好歹你們也要找學者專家來研究一下嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:39:13.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:39:15.098000+08:00","text":"不是這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:39:15.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:39:22.540000+08:00","text":"你們應該研擬一些意見，或者提出對策，或者逐年調降，但是你們通通都沒做。","quality":0.355},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:39:24.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:39:30.972000+08:00","text":"本席告訴你，今年的稅金，你自己說要收3兆1,500億元，這500億元先不說啦！","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:39:32.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:39:40.601000+08:00","text":"零頭就不要說了，只說3兆1,000億元的部分就好，這和機車貨物稅50億元對比起來像什麼呢？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:39:42.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:39:45.085000+08:00","text":"就像你身上帶了3,100元，機車貨物稅只是其中的5元銅板，不是嗎？","quality":0.44},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:39:51.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:39:58.764000+08:00","text":"50億元就像5元銅板，你身上帶了3,100元，假如掉了5元銅板，你還懶得撿！","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:40:00.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:40:03.466000+08:00","text":"因為你怕沾到水溝的水，不是這樣嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:40:03.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:40:04.086000+08:00","text":"因為會弄髒手。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:40:06.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:40:25.582000+08:00","text":"所以你根本就是沒有心，對你轄管的、這麼重大的，攸關全民福祉、利益的稅制做調整，其他的更不用說了。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:40:26.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:40:40.169000+08:00","text":"我們也有提案，不只是本席，有好幾位立委提案，對中小企業加薪的部分減稅，結果頭一個反對的又是你啦！好啦！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:40:40.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:40:44.431000+08:00","text":"本席今天再和你提另外一個議題，今天你有帶九大公營行庫董事長、總經理出席。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-16T11:40:44.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:40:45.431000+08:00","text":"有，通通都在座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:40:44.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:13.917000+08:00","text":"先前本席說過，對薯條三兄弟，就是對這三大租賃公司的看法，他們的惡形惡狀，本席就不說了，本席只說他們向公營行庫借款的問題，這部分連審計部的報告也有提到，他們的觀點和本席一致，而且他們也在檢討這個部分。","quality":0.578},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:14.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:33.707000+08:00","text":"本席只提其中一點就好，它說公營行庫貸款給薯條三兄弟，最低利息只有0.95%。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:33.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:38.531000+08:00","text":"部長，請你問一下，請九大公營行庫的人站起來，讓本席看一下，好不好？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:38.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:40.052000+08:00","text":"誰貸款給薯條三兄弟0.95%的利息？誰啦？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:40.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:40.232000+08:00","text":"哪一家？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:40.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:40.712000+08:00","text":"自己舉手。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:46.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:48.986000+08:00","text":"審計部查了，這是審計部的報告。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:51.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:51.368000+08:00","text":"時間暫停。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:53.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:54.251000+08:00","text":"九大公營行庫的人有沒有來？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:54.251000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:55.251000+08:00","text":"時間暫停。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:54.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:58.354000+08:00","text":"有沒有來？有。有來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:41:58.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:41:59.235000+08:00","text":"請你們站起來，好不好？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:00.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:01.577000+08:00","text":"你們查一下是哪一家。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"何董事長英明","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:04.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:04.959000+08:00","text":"沒那麼低。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:06.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:08.342000+08:00","text":"這是審計部的報告，所以本席才會提問。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:10.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:20.654000+08:00","text":"本席質詢的時候還幫你們說話，1.65%的利率已經超低，為什麼？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:20.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:29.161000+08:00","text":"你們借他們1.65%的利率，可是薯條三兄弟卻是以20%的利率借給需要用錢的民眾？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:29.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:38.414000+08:00","text":"他們是吸血高利貸，公營行庫這麼做叫助紂為虐。好啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:39.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:45.077000+08:00","text":"現在本席是說1.65%，但審計部說利率是0.95%。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:47.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:56.839000+08:00","text":"利率高一點的的確有到4%、5%，部長，你怎麼說？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:56.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:42:57.900000+08:00","text":"請你回去查一查，好不好？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-16T11:42:58.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:43:06.164000+08:00","text":"我們這裡也有資料，6月都是2.5%左右或以上，沒有到0.9%。對啦！","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:43:06.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:43:14.028000+08:00","text":"本席說了1.65%這個數字以後，自己也看了資料，查到的最低一筆是第一銀行或臺銀的1.11%，現在審計部的報告是0.95%。","quality":0.604},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:43:21.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:43:29.191000+08:00","text":"部長，本席提出薯條三兄弟的事情之後，你還寫了一份報告質疑本席，是不是？不敢。","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:43:29.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:43:37.274000+08:00","text":"你說王委員質詢內容將不同年度之年平均動用金額相加起來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:43:37.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:43:37.274000+08:00","text":"簡單說啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:43:37.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:43:51.152000+08:00","text":"公營行庫借了1,450億元給薯條三兄弟放高利貸，這是事實。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:43:51.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:04.840000+08:00","text":"九大公營行庫的董事長、總經理都換新了，因為這是先前的事，不是你們幹的，所以你們回去好好檢討這些事情，千萬不要助紂為虐，好不好？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:04.840000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:06.741000+08:00","text":"請九大公營行庫的人站起來。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:06.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:07.261000+08:00","text":"怎麼只有你們幾個？喔！","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:13.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:16.722000+08:00","text":"的確有九位，剛才是本席少算，請坐。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:19.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:23.706000+08:00","text":"部長請回，請你把本席剛才說的這些帶回去好好想一想啦！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:24.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:25.547000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:26.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:28.129000+08:00","text":"請金管會。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:28.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:31.391000+08:00","text":"今天主委請假，請副主委。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:31.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:31.611000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:44:36.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:44:59.672000+08:00","text":"副主委，說到薯條三兄弟，那時候你們有到本席研究室說明，現在是用最新的方式管理，就是從金融消費保護法做起，你們會找薯條三兄弟商量，請他們接受金融消費保護法的約束。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:45:00.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:45:08.383000+08:00","text":"你說要去找他們談，給薯條三兄弟一個從良的機會，結果談的怎麼樣？是。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":"2024-10-16T11:45:09.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:45:21.007000+08:00","text":"我們有先請理事長邀這三家公司到金管會來談，目前我們也在草擬子法當中。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":"2024-10-16T11:45:22.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:45:33.513000+08:00","text":"當然，還是會有一些反彈，但是我們也告訴他們，這是社會公益，我們是要管的，目前只是一個過渡，將來還有專法，所以寧願現在就加入。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":"2024-10-16T11:45:39.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:45:44.266000+08:00","text":"在借款方面，如果他們願意納入管理，我們也會有一些比較適當的輔導措施。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:45:44.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:45:47.390000+08:00","text":"簡單說就是給他們從良的機會，但他們還是拒絕。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:45:51.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:46:07.630000+08:00","text":"現在好幾位委員都在研擬融資租賃公司管理法，因為本會期是預算會期，我們怕通過這個案子可能需要更久的時間，所以才會妥協，先用這個法去約束他們。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:46:08.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:46:14.838000+08:00","text":"請你在最短的時間內，把談判過程、結果提供給本席，好不好？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":"2024-10-16T11:46:14.838000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:46:15.838000+08:00","text":"是，好的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:46:15.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:46:20.084000+08:00","text":"主席，不好意思，最後再1分鐘。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:46:20.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:47:16.211000+08:00","text":"我們現在的政策方向就是要做亞太金融中心，這個非常好，可是副主委，你記不記得本席提過，關於亞太金融中心，我們就是希望亞洲各國，尤其是東南亞，大家把錢拿到臺灣投資，讓臺灣管理，可是本席當時就點明，我們國家的壽險資金，可動用資金餘額有32兆元，其中70%，也就是有22兆元是買國外的債券和基金，我們希望管理別人的資金，結果自己的錢，100元裡面有70元是給別人管，那要再成立什麼？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:16.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:47:16.611000+08:00","text":"這樣就很奇怪囉！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:16.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:47:27.479000+08:00","text":"我們自己承認國外的管理比我們更好，既然有人比我們好，我們就不是最好的，不是嗎？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:27.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:47:29.020000+08:00","text":"那我們要找誰來投資？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:30.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:47:32.461000+08:00","text":"找誰到這邊做金融營運中心？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:33.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:47:35.082000+08:00","text":"這不是矛盾嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:35.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:47:47.325000+08:00","text":"更何況這70%當中很多都已經暴險，有戰爭的風險，這是俄國的部分，還有匯率的風險，各國都有一些匯率風險。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:47.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:00.819000+08:00","text":"所以本席一再的說，至少每一年要有3%到5%，趕快引導他們回來投入國內需要的公共建設。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:01.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:18.294000+08:00","text":"國內的公共建設除了看得到的社會住宅、交通設施、捷運、鐵路以外，我們還有那麼多長照社福機構需要投入公共建設資金幫助，好不好？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:18.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:25.920000+08:00","text":"本席希望你把這些話聽進去，這會期本席會再追蹤，好不好？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:26.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:27.802000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員指教，我們一定努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:28.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:28.322000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:31.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:32.118000+08:00","text":"接著請羅明才委員質詢。","quality":0.9}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:34:14 - 11:48:39","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查「證券交易稅條例」7案：\n(一)\t行政院函請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員羅明才等20人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員賴惠員等37人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(六)\t本院委員林楚茵等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(七)\t本院委員邱志偉等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":758,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（11時34分）謝謝主席，請財政部莊部長。"],["主席：好，請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：部長，你從上任到現在，的確是有認真的一面啦！不過本席要用四個字來定義你，就是恃寵而驕。前一任內閣拍過畢業照後，大概都走了，你是少數難得留下來的一、兩位，但就因為你被留下來，所以你可能覺得自己表現的很好、有特殊才能，所以獲得肯定被留任。本席說你恃寵而驕是什麼意思？因為恃寵而驕衍生而來的，就是墨守成規、抱殘守缺，就這麼簡單。","本席拿稅制來說就好，關於稅制，之前已經向你提了很多次，我們有很多不合宜的稅制，像娛樂稅、印花稅、汽車關稅、機車貨物稅、保健品關稅，這些都是現在最被社會詬病的，本席相信你也很清楚啊！之前已經和你談了一個會期，要求你針對這五大不合時宜、應該調整的稅制做一些調整，但是你馬上回答，委員，這要先找到替代財源。","本席現在請問你，6年前的富人稅，就是所得稅的最高級距45%，那一年不曉得怎麼搞的，可能風大了一點，結果就取消了，請問富人稅的替代財源在哪裡？你找到了沒有？根本沒有！但你們不是取消了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我能說明嗎？第一個，所得稅這個富人稅……"],["王委員世堅：本席是先告訴你，還沒有讓你回答啦！本席觀察你很久了，你就是那樣的態度。本席告訴你，如果你只是要守住這些稅收，讓它一毛都不少，或者墨守成規，這些國產通通不要動，坦白說，你的位置叫賦稅署長來做就好啊！叫國庫署長來做就好啊！甚至讓101董事長來做也可以啊！至少101董事長夠年輕、有衝勁，不是這樣嗎？他願意嘗試嘛！願意把立法院的聲音聽進去，然後好好研究，不是嗎？你聽了一整個會期，但本席認為你就像沒聽到一樣。","本席不懂啦！本席不懂你是什麼樣的心態。上個會期本席說要送你一個十字架，這個十字架的橫批是國產，直批是稅收，你的態度就像現在一樣，誰都休想搶走我的十字架，你就是這個態度。但是現在社會需要的是很多創新和改革，比方稅制，你知道嗎？我們有1,400萬輛機車，每年增加20萬輛，機車貨物稅平均下去，每輛機車差不多要課25,000元到30,000元的稅金。","可是機車是現在年輕朋友們、上班族、送貨族最需要的交通工具，而且是他們的生財工具，結果機車的價格這麼高，現在買一部機車隨隨便便就要七、八萬元，就是因為這3萬元的稅金，這個稅金該降，但是你們不降。好，你說要找到替代財源，本席今天就要請問你，本席剛剛說的這些，包括印花稅、娛樂稅，好歹你們也要找學者專家來研究一下嘛！不是這樣嗎？你們應該研擬一些意見，或者提出對策，或者逐年調降，但是你們通通都沒做。","本席告訴你，今年的稅金，你自己說要收3兆1,500億元，這500億元先不說啦！零頭就不要說了，只說3兆1,000億元的部分就好，這和機車貨物稅50億元對比起來像什麼呢？就像你身上帶了3,100元，機車貨物稅只是其中的5元銅板，不是嗎？50億元就像5元銅板，你身上帶了3,100元，假如掉了5元銅板，你還懶得撿！因為你怕沾到水溝的水，不是這樣嗎？因為會弄髒手。","所以你根本就是沒有心，對你轄管的、這麼重大的，攸關全民福祉、利益的稅制做調整，其他的更不用說了。我們也有提案，不只是本席，有好幾位立委提案，對中小企業加薪的部分減稅，結果頭一個反對的又是你啦！好啦！本席今天再和你提另外一個議題，今天你有帶九大公營行庫董事長、總經理出席。"],["莊部長翠雲：有，通通都在座。"],["王委員世堅：先前本席說過，對薯條三兄弟，就是對這三大租賃公司的看法，他們的惡形惡狀，本席就不說了，本席只說他們向公營行庫借款的問題，這部分連審計部的報告也有提到，他們的觀點和本席一致，而且他們也在檢討這個部分。本席只提其中一點就好，它說公營行庫貸款給薯條三兄弟，最低利息只有0.95%。","部長，請你問一下，請九大公營行庫的人站起來，讓本席看一下，好不好？誰貸款給薯條三兄弟0.95%的利息？誰啦？哪一家？自己舉手。審計部查了，這是審計部的報告。時間暫停。九大公營行庫的人有沒有來？"],["主席：時間暫停。"],["王委員世堅：有沒有來？"],["主席：有。"],["王委員世堅：有來？請你們站起來，好不好？你們查一下是哪一家。"],["何董事長英明：沒那麼低。"],["王委員世堅：這是審計部的報告，所以本席才會提問。本席質詢的時候還幫你們說話，1.65%的利率已經超低，為什麼？你們借他們1.65%的利率，可是薯條三兄弟卻是以20%的利率借給需要用錢的民眾？他們是吸血高利貸，公營行庫這麼做叫助紂為虐。好啦！現在本席是說1.65%，但審計部說利率是0.95%。利率高一點的的確有到4%、5%，部長，你怎麼說？請你回去查一查，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們這裡也有資料，6月都是2.5%左右或以上，沒有到0.9%。"],["王委員世堅：對啦！本席說了1.65%這個數字以後，自己也看了資料，查到的最低一筆是第一銀行或臺銀的1.11%，現在審計部的報告是0.95%。部長，本席提出薯條三兄弟的事情之後，你還寫了一份報告質疑本席，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：不敢。"],["王委員世堅：你說王委員質詢內容將不同年度之年平均動用金額相加起來。簡單說啦！公營行庫借了1,450億元給薯條三兄弟放高利貸，這是事實。九大公營行庫的董事長、總經理都換新了，因為這是先前的事，不是你們幹的，所以你們回去好好檢討這些事情，千萬不要助紂為虐，好不好？請九大公營行庫的人站起來。怎麼只有你們幾個？喔！的確有九位，剛才是本席少算，請坐。部長請回，請你把本席剛才說的這些帶回去好好想一想啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["王委員世堅：請金管會。今天主委請假，請副主委。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：副主委，說到薯條三兄弟，那時候你們有到本席研究室說明，現在是用最新的方式管理，就是從金融消費保護法做起，你們會找薯條三兄弟商量，請他們接受金融消費保護法的約束。你說要去找他們談，給薯條三兄弟一個從良的機會，結果談的怎麼樣？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是。我們有先請理事長邀這三家公司到金管會來談，目前我們也在草擬子法當中。當然，還是會有一些反彈，但是我們也告訴他們，這是社會公益，我們是要管的，目前只是一個過渡，將來還有專法，所以寧願現在就加入。在借款方面，如果他們願意納入管理，我們也會有一些比較適當的輔導措施。"],["王委員世堅：簡單說就是給他們從良的機會，但他們還是拒絕。現在好幾位委員都在研擬融資租賃公司管理法，因為本會期是預算會期，我們怕通過這個案子可能需要更久的時間，所以才會妥協，先用這個法去約束他們。請你在最短的時間內，把談判過程、結果提供給本席，好不好？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，好的。"],["王委員世堅：主席，不好意思，最後再1分鐘。我們現在的政策方向就是要做亞太金融中心，這個非常好，可是副主委，你記不記得本席提過，關於亞太金融中心，我們就是希望亞洲各國，尤其是東南亞，大家把錢拿到臺灣投資，讓臺灣管理，可是本席當時就點明，我們國家的壽險資金，可動用資金餘額有32兆元，其中70%，也就是有22兆元是買國外的債券和基金，我們希望管理別人的資金，結果自己的錢，100元裡面有70元是給別人管，那要再成立什麼？這樣就很奇怪囉！","我們自己承認國外的管理比我們更好，既然有人比我們好，我們就不是最好的，不是嗎？那我們要找誰來投資？找誰到這邊做金融營運中心？這不是矛盾嗎？更何況這70%當中很多都已經暴險，有戰爭的風險，這是俄國的部分，還有匯率的風險，各國都有一些匯率風險。所以本席一再的說，至少每一年要有3%到5%，趕快引導他們回來投入國內需要的公共建設。國內的公共建設除了看得到的社會住宅、交通設施、捷運、鐵路以外，我們還有那麼多長照社福機構需要投入公共建設資金幫助，好不好？本席希望你把這些話聽進去，這會期本席會再追蹤，好不好？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，謝謝委員指教，我們一定努力。"],["王委員世堅：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接著請羅明才委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-2","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","王世堅","羅明才","邱志偉","陳培瑜","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":277,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公\n股代表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢；二、審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一)行政院函\n請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員羅明才等20人\n擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交\n易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員邱志偉等19\n人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1138501_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}