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ext":"是買國外的債券跟基金我們希望管別人的資金結果自己的錢一百塊裡面七十塊是給別人管然後再成立什麼很奇怪囉我們自己承認說國外的比我們更好"},{"start":789.738,"end":814.546,"text":"有人逼我們好我們就不是最好不是嗎那我們找誰來投資我們來在我們這邊做金融營運中心這不是矛盾嗎更何況這70%很多都已經曝顯了戰爭的風險俄國的部分匯率的風險各國都有一些匯率的風險所以我一再的講"},{"start":815.626,"end":829.842,"text":"我們應該每一年至少3%到5%趕快引導他們回來投入我們國內需要的公共建設我們國內的公共建設除了看得到的"},{"start":830.683,"end":854.322,"text":"社會住宅、交通設施、捷運、鐵路以外我們還有長照我們還有那麼多長照設服機構需要列入公共建設的資金來幫助好不好我希望你把這些話聽下去這是這會期我後續會再跟你們來追蹤的好不好是謝謝委員指教我們一定努力好謝謝"},{"start":857.557,"end":858.118,"text":"接著我們請羅明財委員質詢"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:34:14 - 11:48:39","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查「證券交易稅條例」7案：\n(一)\t行政院函請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員羅明才等20人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員賴惠員等37人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(六)\t本院委員林楚茵等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(七)\t本院委員邱志偉等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":758,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（11時34分）謝謝主席，請財政部莊部長。"],["主席：好，請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：部長，你從上任到現在，的確是有認真的一面啦！不過本席要用四個字來定義你，就是恃寵而驕。前一任內閣拍過畢業照後，大概都走了，你是少數難得留下來的一、兩位，但就因為你被留下來，所以你可能覺得自己表現的很好、有特殊才能，所以獲得肯定被留任。本席說你恃寵而驕是什麼意思？因為恃寵而驕衍生而來的，就是墨守成規、抱殘守缺，就這麼簡單。","本席拿稅制來說就好，關於稅制，之前已經向你提了很多次，我們有很多不合宜的稅制，像娛樂稅、印花稅、汽車關稅、機車貨物稅、保健品關稅，這些都是現在最被社會詬病的，本席相信你也很清楚啊！之前已經和你談了一個會期，要求你針對這五大不合時宜、應該調整的稅制做一些調整，但是你馬上回答，委員，這要先找到替代財源。","本席現在請問你，6年前的富人稅，就是所得稅的最高級距45%，那一年不曉得怎麼搞的，可能風大了一點，結果就取消了，請問富人稅的替代財源在哪裡？你找到了沒有？根本沒有！但你們不是取消了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我能說明嗎？第一個，所得稅這個富人稅……"],["王委員世堅：本席是先告訴你，還沒有讓你回答啦！本席觀察你很久了，你就是那樣的態度。本席告訴你，如果你只是要守住這些稅收，讓它一毛都不少，或者墨守成規，這些國產通通不要動，坦白說，你的位置叫賦稅署長來做就好啊！叫國庫署長來做就好啊！甚至讓101董事長來做也可以啊！至少101董事長夠年輕、有衝勁，不是這樣嗎？他願意嘗試嘛！願意把立法院的聲音聽進去，然後好好研究，不是嗎？你聽了一整個會期，但本席認為你就像沒聽到一樣。","本席不懂啦！本席不懂你是什麼樣的心態。上個會期本席說要送你一個十字架，這個十字架的橫批是國產，直批是稅收，你的態度就像現在一樣，誰都休想搶走我的十字架，你就是這個態度。但是現在社會需要的是很多創新和改革，比方稅制，你知道嗎？我們有1,400萬輛機車，每年增加20萬輛，機車貨物稅平均下去，每輛機車差不多要課25,000元到30,000元的稅金。","可是機車是現在年輕朋友們、上班族、送貨族最需要的交通工具，而且是他們的生財工具，結果機車的價格這麼高，現在買一部機車隨隨便便就要七、八萬元，就是因為這3萬元的稅金，這個稅金該降，但是你們不降。好，你說要找到替代財源，本席今天就要請問你，本席剛剛說的這些，包括印花稅、娛樂稅，好歹你們也要找學者專家來研究一下嘛！不是這樣嗎？你們應該研擬一些意見，或者提出對策，或者逐年調降，但是你們通通都沒做。","本席告訴你，今年的稅金，你自己說要收3兆1,500億元，這500億元先不說啦！零頭就不要說了，只說3兆1,000億元的部分就好，這和機車貨物稅50億元對比起來像什麼呢？就像你身上帶了3,100元，機車貨物稅只是其中的5元銅板，不是嗎？50億元就像5元銅板，你身上帶了3,100元，假如掉了5元銅板，你還懶得撿！因為你怕沾到水溝的水，不是這樣嗎？因為會弄髒手。","所以你根本就是沒有心，對你轄管的、這麼重大的，攸關全民福祉、利益的稅制做調整，其他的更不用說了。我們也有提案，不只是本席，有好幾位立委提案，對中小企業加薪的部分減稅，結果頭一個反對的又是你啦！好啦！本席今天再和你提另外一個議題，今天你有帶九大公營行庫董事長、總經理出席。"],["莊部長翠雲：有，通通都在座。"],["王委員世堅：先前本席說過，對薯條三兄弟，就是對這三大租賃公司的看法，他們的惡形惡狀，本席就不說了，本席只說他們向公營行庫借款的問題，這部分連審計部的報告也有提到，他們的觀點和本席一致，而且他們也在檢討這個部分。本席只提其中一點就好，它說公營行庫貸款給薯條三兄弟，最低利息只有0.95%。","部長，請你問一下，請九大公營行庫的人站起來，讓本席看一下，好不好？誰貸款給薯條三兄弟0.95%的利息？誰啦？哪一家？自己舉手。審計部查了，這是審計部的報告。時間暫停。九大公營行庫的人有沒有來？"],["主席：時間暫停。"],["王委員世堅：有沒有來？"],["主席：有。"],["王委員世堅：有來？請你們站起來，好不好？你們查一下是哪一家。"],["何董事長英明：沒那麼低。"],["王委員世堅：這是審計部的報告，所以本席才會提問。本席質詢的時候還幫你們說話，1.65%的利率已經超低，為什麼？你們借他們1.65%的利率，可是薯條三兄弟卻是以20%的利率借給需要用錢的民眾？他們是吸血高利貸，公營行庫這麼做叫助紂為虐。好啦！現在本席是說1.65%，但審計部說利率是0.95%。利率高一點的的確有到4%、5%，部長，你怎麼說？請你回去查一查，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們這裡也有資料，6月都是2.5%左右或以上，沒有到0.9%。"],["王委員世堅：對啦！本席說了1.65%這個數字以後，自己也看了資料，查到的最低一筆是第一銀行或臺銀的1.11%，現在審計部的報告是0.95%。部長，本席提出薯條三兄弟的事情之後，你還寫了一份報告質疑本席，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：不敢。"],["王委員世堅：你說王委員質詢內容將不同年度之年平均動用金額相加起來。簡單說啦！公營行庫借了1,450億元給薯條三兄弟放高利貸，這是事實。九大公營行庫的董事長、總經理都換新了，因為這是先前的事，不是你們幹的，所以你們回去好好檢討這些事情，千萬不要助紂為虐，好不好？請九大公營行庫的人站起來。怎麼只有你們幾個？喔！的確有九位，剛才是本席少算，請坐。部長請回，請你把本席剛才說的這些帶回去好好想一想啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["王委員世堅：請金管會。今天主委請假，請副主委。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：副主委，說到薯條三兄弟，那時候你們有到本席研究室說明，現在是用最新的方式管理，就是從金融消費保護法做起，你們會找薯條三兄弟商量，請他們接受金融消費保護法的約束。你說要去找他們談，給薯條三兄弟一個從良的機會，結果談的怎麼樣？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是。我們有先請理事長邀這三家公司到金管會來談，目前我們也在草擬子法當中。當然，還是會有一些反彈，但是我們也告訴他們，這是社會公益，我們是要管的，目前只是一個過渡，將來還有專法，所以寧願現在就加入。在借款方面，如果他們願意納入管理，我們也會有一些比較適當的輔導措施。"],["王委員世堅：簡單說就是給他們從良的機會，但他們還是拒絕。現在好幾位委員都在研擬融資租賃公司管理法，因為本會期是預算會期，我們怕通過這個案子可能需要更久的時間，所以才會妥協，先用這個法去約束他們。請你在最短的時間內，把談判過程、結果提供給本席，好不好？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，好的。"],["王委員世堅：主席，不好意思，最後再1分鐘。我們現在的政策方向就是要做亞太金融中心，這個非常好，可是副主委，你記不記得本席提過，關於亞太金融中心，我們就是希望亞洲各國，尤其是東南亞，大家把錢拿到臺灣投資，讓臺灣管理，可是本席當時就點明，我們國家的壽險資金，可動用資金餘額有32兆元，其中70%，也就是有22兆元是買國外的債券和基金，我們希望管理別人的資金，結果自己的錢，100元裡面有70元是給別人管，那要再成立什麼？這樣就很奇怪囉！","我們自己承認國外的管理比我們更好，既然有人比我們好，我們就不是最好的，不是嗎？那我們要找誰來投資？找誰到這邊做金融營運中心？這不是矛盾嗎？更何況這70%當中很多都已經暴險，有戰爭的風險，這是俄國的部分，還有匯率的風險，各國都有一些匯率風險。所以本席一再的說，至少每一年要有3%到5%，趕快引導他們回來投入國內需要的公共建設。國內的公共建設除了看得到的社會住宅、交通設施、捷運、鐵路以外，我們還有那麼多長照社福機構需要投入公共建設資金幫助，好不好？本席希望你把這些話聽進去，這會期本席會再追蹤，好不好？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是，謝謝委員指教，我們一定努力。"],["王委員世堅：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接著請羅明才委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-2","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","王世堅","羅明才","邱志偉","陳培瑜","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":277,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公\n股代表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢；二、審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一)行政院函\n請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員羅明才等20人\n擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交\n易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員邱志偉等19\n人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1138501_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}