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有請國安局的蔡局長來 局長請好 謝謝主席 賴委員好局長你好請問你台灣的軍力在全世界排名第幾看不同機構有不同的指標你隨便講一個都有 我看過的最強的 最前面的排名"},{"start":28.895,"end":37.142,"text":"我的印象應該大概在十幾左右我的印象我不知道有沒有最新的資訊我們的經貿實力大概十幾你知道嗎經貿實力"},{"start":52.918,"end":76.748,"text":"現在好像台灣是第22大經濟體吧第16第16用到18那我原來以為說我們軍事大概人家ranking也大概16左右請問以色列第幾以色列的軍力全世界軍力第一名是不是第一名美國第二名呢第二"},{"start":88.37,"end":116.211,"text":"對阿我剛講的意思是我的印象已經是之前的前幾名大概不外就是美國啦齁俄國中共這些國家大概都這些國家大概會因為指標的不同會順序會有調整我沒有什麼陷阱給你啦就是我們問很前線的問題阿對但我的印象是之前的印象對就是如果沒有含核武第二名是老共啦如果含核武第二名是俄羅斯啦就大概這個樣子啦齁"},{"start":117.532,"end":142.924,"text":"那以我們這樣子我們不管是30、60、80、20的台灣也不會有外賣啊啊為什麼就立憲2024年這樣叫做世界的這樣要脖子給我們繞到在那裡你給我們賣穿整個我們都是談評啦我們要做什麼事你不是說哎呀我跟你Lock allLock住馬上所有的大台抓台"},{"start":144.301,"end":170.64,"text":"變成我們的國防部國安單位變成一個補報員怎麼會這個樣子阿都閃停阿你看這個沒有國防部都有他的一個應酬的機制都有沒有我沒有不是所謂應酬老百姓看到說他越來越靠近了2028沒有這麼靠近就2020比縮起來阿真的像勒住或者雷住都可以勒住那種感覺阿對不對台灣老百姓不舒服阿"},{"start":171.718,"end":176.304,"text":"對中共對台的脅迫這個臺灣社會沒有人會接受但是問題你們是政府單位啊臺灣人民把這個所有的記"},{"start":187.318,"end":196.28,"text":"委員說明那是情報情資的部分情報情資的部分我們當然盡可能透明化讓社會可以了解中共軍事動態這一部分國防部已經有一個對外說明的機制但是應處的部分國防部絕對有調動我們相關海空兵力以及鋼海巡署署長也特別強調了"},{"start":215.125,"end":241.375,"text":"沒有啦 因為我時間有限 我們的主席都很嚴格的齁 我趕快把他講完 我告訴你 老闆現在看到的時候 來 他給我跑來一英尺 我把他擋回去 一英尺 按著釣 結果不是勒步步進逼 現在2020 A 2020 B 過來萬里有嘻 越來越慫越來越慫 我們沒辦法做任何事情 這是老百姓所擔心的啦"},{"start":241.735,"end":243.016,"text":"請問你這一次他提早收兵"},{"start":281.523,"end":296.256,"text":"中共在進行對台軍演我剛才跟其他委員做說明了不是只有用兩岸的框架在看他必須要考慮到區域跟國際政治所以各種因素我相信他都會列入評論他提早收兵是不是不願意有沒有這個選項"},{"start":298.038,"end":309.133,"text":"臺海不要變成美國的十月驚奇因為他們11月要投票了October surprise他不要變成這個題目各種可能性都有包括到"},{"start":314.881,"end":317.163,"text":"我可以說國安局長相信認為台海不願意老公不願意變成"},{"start":339.725,"end":357.595,"text":"這是委員的說法這是委員的說法但我跟委員說的是中共在進行軍演他的評估不是只有兩岸的問題他必須要有全面國際跟區域政治的一個評估這是我的觀點我很喜歡來問你可是你每次都不給答案這個東西很難我輸我不知道答案我不知道點那個養豬我頭皮癢你就給我抓手都不好"},{"start":365.8,"end":369.51,"text":"我頭在這裏啊你都給我裝熟了轉移也是會不會走啦謝謝賴委員好局長請回"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:41:32 - 11:47:44","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":675,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時41分）謝謝主席，有請國安局的蔡局長。"],["主席：局長請。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：局長，你好。請問你，臺灣的軍力在全世界排名第幾？"],["蔡局長明彥：看不同機構有不同的指標。"],["賴委員士葆：你隨便講一個。"],["蔡局長明彥：都有，我看過的……"],["賴委員士葆：最強的、最強的、最前面的排名？"],["蔡局長明彥：都有啦！都有，而且針對陸海空軍各種都有。"],["賴委員士葆：幾名？幾名？幾名？第幾名？"],["蔡局長明彥：根據我的印象，The Military 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something啊！"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有，委員，國防部都有它的應處機制。"],["賴委員士葆：我們老百姓只看到它越來越靠近耶！2024-A沒有這麼靠近，但2024-B就整個束起來，真的是整個勒住都可以，那種勒住的感覺讓臺灣的老百姓不舒服啊！臺灣老百姓不爽啊！對於老共的軍演不爽啊！對不對？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，中共對臺的脅迫，臺灣社會沒有辦法接受。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有人會接受啦！"],["蔡局長明彥：是，沒有人能接受。"],["賴委員士葆：問題你們是政府單位啊！臺灣人民把所有希望都寄託在你們身上，你們就要讓我們看到你們有能力因應，但現在我看到的是你們就像播報員，現在飛機有幾架、軍艦有幾艘，這樣而已耶！只告訴我們這樣而已耶！"],["蔡局長明彥：向委員說明，那是屬於情報、情資的部分，關於情報、情資的部分，我們當然是盡可能的透明化，讓社會可以了解中共的軍事動態，國防部針對這個部分也已經有一個對外說明的機制，但是應處的部分，國防部絕對有調動相關海空兵力，以及剛才海巡署署長也特別強調，整個過程動用的海巡署船艦比海警船還多。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有啦！局長，我的時間有限，而且主席是很嚴格的，所以我們要趕快把它講完。我告訴你，老百姓要看到的是它越過1英呎、我們就要擋回去1英呎，這樣才對啊！結果並不是，步步進逼，從2024-A到2024-B，萬一之後還有C，越來越接近，我們卻沒辦法做任何事情，這是老百姓所擔心的啊！"],["蔡局長明彥：國防部都沒有讓這些船艦進入我們的24浬，完全沒有！"],["賴委員士葆：但是比以前緊了啊！有沒有比以前緊？我問你，有沒有比以前緊？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們一直沒有讓他們進入24浬。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有錯，確實是沒有進入24浬，但是比以前緊了。"],["蔡局長明彥：看是與以前的什麼時候比，當然它是有可能步步進逼。"],["賴委員士葆：請問你，與2024-A相比，有沒有？"],["蔡局長明彥：他們歷來的聯合戰備警巡本來就是要抵進我們的24浬作為施壓，確實是有這樣的狀況。"],["賴委員士葆：請問你，這次它提早收兵了，有人說是虎頭蛇尾，是不是過程中有美國的力量在背後？有沒有？"],["蔡局長明彥：關於中共的對臺軍演，剛剛我也向其他委員做過說明，不是只有用兩岸的框架在看，而是必須要考慮到區域與國際政治，所以我相信它會將各種因素都列入評估。"],["賴委員士葆：它提早收兵是不是不願意，有沒有這個選項？也就是臺海不要變成美國的十月驚奇，因為他們11月要投票了，October surprise，它不要變成這個題目，有沒有這個可能？"],["蔡局長明彥：各種可能性都有，包括……"],["賴委員士葆：就是這個、就是這個，key point。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，都有、任何可能性都有。"],["賴委員士葆：這個、這個。"],["蔡局長明彥：還有其他的可能性，甚至包括10月10日到12日剛好是東協峰會，那個時間點也不適合大動干戈在這邊軍演，而且東協峰會中大家都質疑中共在南海的擴張，所以它會根據各種情勢作最後的判斷。"],["賴委員士葆：所以我可以說國安局長相信、認為老共不願意臺海變成美國選舉的十月驚奇？"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有，這是委員的說法、這是委員的說法，但我向委員說的是，中共進行軍演評估的不是只有兩岸的問題，必須要有全面國際與區域政治的評估，這是我的觀點。"],["賴委員士葆：我很喜歡來問你，但是你每次都不給答案。"],["蔡局長明彥：我會盡量回答，謝謝委員。"],["賴委員士葆：這個邏輯讓我們都不舒服，你知道嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：不會啦！盡量回答。"],["主席：他怕被你下標啦！委員，謝謝啦！"],["賴委員士葆：得不到答案就像找不到那個癢處，我的頭皮癢，結果你幫我抓手，這樣就沒效啊！我的頭在這裡癢卻幫我抓手啊！"],["主席：轉移也是會不癢的，謝謝賴士葆委員，局長請回。","接下來進行詢答的是羅廷瑋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":406,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-4","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","馬文君","黃仁","徐巧芯","林憶君","陳冠廷","黃國昌","賴士葆","羅廷瑋","洪申翰","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","翁曉玲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":351,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}