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們不希望台海發生戰爭這也是為什麼維持台海和穩的現狀是我們對外政策優先的考量好,那我們最近有看到這個海軍司令湯華他有說到解放軍已經準備好了只要隨時願意就可以封鎖台灣的一個言論局長你怎麼看待這樣的說法"},{"start":92.699,"end":94.861,"text":"我想也有媒體指出因為聯合力艦現在A、B陸續已經上場了以後有C、有D、有E、有F5"},{"start":118.519,"end":143.879,"text":"甚至有人預告一年當中可能會有三次軍演我們之間有掌握到任何的情資嗎這邊要跟委員特別講一下這個背景因為事實上中共在台海的軍事活動他除了是針對台灣以外他有他區域軍事戰略的考量包括在東海以及我們現在討論的台海以及南海他是整體在看的對他是整體在看我們有沒有掌握到他有可能去做聯合利建CDEF"},{"start":144.94,"end":146.08,"text":"當然但是我想要強調的事情是當然"},{"start":161.266,"end":179.985,"text":"就像剛剛我們所說的我們台灣所有普遍民眾都是沒辦法認同這樣子恐嚇威脅的對我們不能接受我們都一致的譴責這樣子的行為但是我要說明的是我們當我們掌握到它有可能軍演的頻繁次數增加的時候不管是不是聯合利建哪怕是頓建"},{"start":181.346,"end":181.626,"text":"你可以認同嗎?"},{"start":201.499,"end":227.628,"text":"是委員講的確實也是我們在應處這些中共軍演一個很重要的一個考量也就是我們一定要堅持我們的底線捍衛我們的國家主權跟周邊海空域的安全但是過程當中必須要做相關必要的風險的控管所以我希望內部會議你不用跟我講你們講什麼但我希望你們要注重這個所謂的因為兩岸缺乏溝通了但如果有所謂的軍演變成擦槍走火SOP該怎麼辦"},{"start":228.348,"end":255.954,"text":"我們該如何降到最低我們該如何把這個誤會當下馬上處理這是很重要的一個SOP內部你們有在研議嗎國防部這邊對於共軍基建進階的一個應處的程序都有一套SOP那這套SOP是經過長年的一個運作的經驗所制定的套SOP那這個SOP現在看起來因為對岸也封鎖跟我們拒絕溝通嘛那這SOP你覺得還有用嗎 有沒有需要很精進"},{"start":256.654,"end":257.074,"text":"我知道﹖"},{"start":274.701,"end":297.314,"text":"我知道剛剛你就有講了嘛24海里是我們絕對要堅守的那我現在就是說未來所發生的ABCDEF聯合利建這樣子的軍演次數增加的時候我們在沒有溝通管道的情況之下SOP能夠避免擦槍走火一定要再精進一定要再研議一下這個部分那最後我想請問一下目前國安局的情資中共對台動武"},{"start":297.794,"end":310.447,"text":"是否有相關的情資又是幾年內會發生有沒有這樣子的條件這樣子的啟動你們有沒有這樣的情資跟委員說明一下就中共目前我們看的各種情資並沒有情資來證明它即將在台海發動戰爭立即要發動戰爭沒有沒有這樣的情資"},{"start":316.653,"end":320.218,"text":"局長辛苦了我們持續來努力加油這經過我剛說的擦槍走火一定要避免全面捍衛中華民國我們一定認同好不好好謝謝我們的局長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:56.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:47:59.039000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請我們國安局局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T11:47:59.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:02.981000+08:00","text":"蔡局長請。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:02.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:07.344000+08:00","text":"局長要喝個水嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:07.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:07.564000+08:00","text":"謝謝羅委員，羅委員早。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:07.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:08.565000+08:00","text":"局長，我想向你請教幾個問題。好。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:08.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:17.911000+08:00","text":"賴清德總統在520的談話中提到希望重啟大陸學生來臺就學，請問局長，就國安局的立場，你們怎麼看？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:18.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:19.552000+08:00","text":"是否歡迎陸生來臺？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:19.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:23.995000+08:00","text":"對於兩岸正常的交流，我們都抱持尊重，也不會有任何意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:23.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:24.695000+08:00","text":"有沒有掌握一些隱憂？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:26.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:32.118000+08:00","text":"在交流的過程當中，我們當然也會盤點過去交流過程中有沒有一些違、異常的案例，對於這個部分我們會特別注意。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:32.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:35.280000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，我希望能得知你的態度，剛剛你也說了歡迎陸生來臺交流。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:36.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:39.381000+08:00","text":"正常的交流、沒有問題的交流、社會的交流，我們都尊重。好。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:39.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:49.665000+08:00","text":"另外，想請問你，國家安全策略以及總體戰略及政策，現在到底是以臺美關係穩定為第一優先，或是臺海和平穩定為第一優先？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:49.665000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:50.665000+08:00","text":"應該都很重要，以臺灣整體的對外戰略來講，怎麼樣穩定臺海的情勢、維持現狀以及加強與國際友盟的合作，這是不矛盾的、是併行的、也是總統的四大支柱特別強調的重點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:50.665000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:51.665000+08:00","text":"局長，你是否同意把臺灣推向戰爭不是一個愛臺灣的表現？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:51.665000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:52.665000+08:00","text":"當然，沒有人希望有任何的戰爭。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:48:50.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:48:50.586000+08:00","text":"所以你同意這句話嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:49:12.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:49:17.710000+08:00","text":"對，我們不希望臺海發生戰爭，這也是為什麼維持臺海恆穩現狀是我們對外政策優先的考量。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:49:18.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:49:26.297000+08:00","text":"最近我們看到海軍司令唐華的言論，他說解放軍已經準備好，只要願意就可以隨時封鎖臺灣。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:49:27.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:49:28.359000+08:00","text":"局長，你怎麼看待這樣的說法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:49:28.359000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:49:29.359000+08:00","text":"我想就國防軍事的角度來講，我們的國軍單位一向都是料敵從寬，對於中共各種可能犯臺的方案也都有做非常縝密的評估，不只是評估，也會在漢光實兵兵推的演習過程中去做驗證。","quality":0.027},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:49:29.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:01.865000+08:00","text":"也有媒體指出，現在聯合利劍A、B已經陸續上場，以後有C、有D、有E、有F，甚至有人預告一年當中可能會有3次軍演，我們之間有掌握到任何的情資嗎？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:01.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:14.335000+08:00","text":"這邊要向委員特別講一下這個背景，事實上，中共在臺海的軍事活動除了針對臺灣之外，也有它區域軍事戰略的考量，包括在東海、我們現在討論的臺海以及南海。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:14.335000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:15.335000+08:00","text":"我知道，它是整體來看的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:14.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:15.536000+08:00","text":"對，它是整體在看的。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:16.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:19.859000+08:00","text":"我們有沒有掌握到它可能會進行聯合利劍C、D、E、F？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:19.859000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:20.859000+08:00","text":"各種可能性不能排除的原因，剛剛在機密會議也有提到，中共平常就有做聯合戰備警巡，它只要隨便透過日常的聯合戰備警巡，再給個代號就變成一個演習。當然。","quality":0.03},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:20.859000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:21.859000+08:00","text":"它就會變成一個常態化的演習。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:21.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:43.472000+08:00","text":"但是我想要強調一件事情，就像我們剛剛所說的，臺灣所有的民眾普遍都沒辦法認同這樣的恐嚇威脅。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:43.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:44.413000+08:00","text":"對，我們都不能接受。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:44.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:50:55.805000+08:00","text":"我們都一致譴責這樣的行為，但我要說明的是，當我們掌握到它的軍演次數有可能頻繁增加時，不管是不是聯合利劍，哪怕是鈍劍，只要有軍演的產生就有可能會不小心擦槍走火。","quality":0.616},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:50:55.805000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:51:06.652000+08:00","text":"是，我們會注意。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:51:06.652000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:51:17.499000+08:00","text":"我們應該全面的避免擦槍走火，對於捍衛中華民國主權與保障我們24浬之間一定要全面的捍衛，但是我們也希望不要有任何擦槍走火的事情發生，你可以認同嗎？","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:51:17.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:51:30.864000+08:00","text":"是，委員講的確實也是我們應處中共軍演很重要的一個考量，也就是我們一定要堅持我們的底線，捍衛我們的國家主權及周邊海空域的安全，但是在過程當中必須要做相關的必要風險控管。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:51:31.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:51:43.628000+08:00","text":"所以我寄望於你們的內部會議，當然你不必告訴我你們講了什麼，但是因為兩岸缺乏溝通，如果有所謂的軍演變成擦槍走火，SOP該怎麼辦？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:51:44.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:51:45.828000+08:00","text":"我們該如何降到最低？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:51:46.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:51:49.269000+08:00","text":"我們該如何當下馬上處理這個誤會？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:51:49.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:51:52.990000+08:00","text":"這是很重要的一個SOP，你們的內部有研議嗎？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:51:52.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:03.752000+08:00","text":"有，國防部這邊對於共軍機艦近接的應處程序都有一套SOP，這套SOP是經過長年運作經驗所制定，目的就是在……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:06.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:11.314000+08:00","text":"現在對岸也封鎖拒絕與我們溝通，你覺得這套SOP還有用嗎？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:11.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:11.954000+08:00","text":"有沒有需要更精進？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:11.954000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:21.327500+08:00","text":"我知道委員關切的問題意識在哪裡，也就是說，我們的SOP是讓中共不能夠進犯到我們的24浬。","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:21.327500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:30.701000+08:00","text":"在此也向委員報告，這幾次的演習，包括剛剛結束的2024B演習，都沒有讓共軍的機艦進入24浬。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:30.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:34.323000+08:00","text":"我知道，剛剛你就已經講了，24浬是我們絕對要堅守的。是。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:34.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:48.451000+08:00","text":"但我現在是說未來像這樣的聯合利劍A、B、C、D、E、F軍演次數增加的話，我們在沒有溝通管道的情況之下，能夠避免擦槍走火的SOP一定要再精進、一定要再研議。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:48.451000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:49.812000+08:00","text":"應該的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:49.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:56.257000+08:00","text":"最後我想請問一下，國安局目前是否有中共對臺動武的相關情資？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:56.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:57.218000+08:00","text":"或者是幾年內會發生？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:57.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:52:59.840000+08:00","text":"有沒有這樣的條件、這樣的啟動？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:52:59.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:01.462000+08:00","text":"你們有沒有這樣的情資？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:01.462000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:12.653000+08:00","text":"向委員說明一下，目前我們並沒有看到可以證明它即將、立即要對臺海發動戰爭的情資，沒有這樣的情資，但是他們各種的軍事準備或軍事演訓都不斷在進行，特別是9月到10月的這個階段，他們才剛剛完成全軍戰略演習，目前還在做一些補測考的科目，所以我們對於他們相關的動態都有完整的掌握。","quality":0.254},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:12.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:12.773000+08:00","text":"局長，辛苦了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:12.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:13.554000+08:00","text":"我們持續的努力加油。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:13.554000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:14.554000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝羅委員的提醒。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:13.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:15.938000+08:00","text":"記得我剛剛說的，一定要避免擦槍走火，全面捍衛中華民國，我們一定認同，好不好？","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:15.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:16.078000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:16.578000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:19.720857+08:00","text":"謝謝羅廷瑋委員，局長請回。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:20.020857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:27.163714+08:00","text":"接下來進行詢答的鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:27.463714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:32.320857+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T11:53:32.620857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T11:53:36.620857+08:00","text":"接下來進行詢答的是洪申翰委員。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:47:56 - 11:53:36","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":736,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時47分）謝謝主席，有請我們國安局局長。"],["主席：蔡局長請。"],["羅委員廷瑋：局長要喝個水嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝羅委員，羅委員早。"],["羅委員廷瑋：局長，我想向你請教幾個問題。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：賴清德總統在520的談話中提到希望重啟大陸學生來臺就學，請問局長，就國安局的立場，你們怎麼看？是否歡迎陸生來臺？"],["蔡局長明彥：對於兩岸正常的交流，我們都抱持尊重，也不會有任何意見。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有沒有掌握一些隱憂？"],["蔡局長明彥：在交流的過程當中，我們當然也會盤點過去交流過程中有沒有一些違、異常的案例，對於這個部分我們會特別注意。"],["羅委員廷瑋：針對這個部分，我希望能得知你的態度，剛剛你也說了歡迎陸生來臺交流。"],["蔡局長明彥：正常的交流、沒有問題的交流、社會的交流，我們都尊重。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。另外，想請問你，國家安全策略以及總體戰略及政策，現在到底是以臺美關係穩定為第一優先，或是臺海和平穩定為第一優先？"],["蔡局長明彥：應該都很重要，以臺灣整體的對外戰略來講，怎麼樣穩定臺海的情勢、維持現狀以及加強與國際友盟的合作，這是不矛盾的、是併行的、也是總統的四大支柱特別強調的重點。"],["羅委員廷瑋：局長，你是否同意把臺灣推向戰爭不是一個愛臺灣的表現？"],["蔡局長明彥：當然，沒有人希望有任何的戰爭。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你同意這句話嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們不希望臺海發生戰爭，這也是為什麼維持臺海恆穩現狀是我們對外政策優先的考量。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最近我們看到海軍司令唐華的言論，他說解放軍已經準備好，只要願意就可以隨時封鎖臺灣。局長，你怎麼看待這樣的說法？"],["蔡局長明彥：我想就國防軍事的角度來講，我們的國軍單位一向都是料敵從寬，對於中共各種可能犯臺的方案也都有做非常縝密的評估，不只是評估，也會在漢光實兵兵推的演習過程中去做驗證。"],["羅委員廷瑋：也有媒體指出，現在聯合利劍A、B已經陸續上場，以後有C、有D、有E、有F，甚至有人預告一年當中可能會有3次軍演，我們之間有掌握到任何的情資嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：這邊要向委員特別講一下這個背景，事實上，中共在臺海的軍事活動除了針對臺灣之外，也有它區域軍事戰略的考量，包括在東海、我們現在討論的臺海以及南海。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，它是整體來看的。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，它是整體在看的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們有沒有掌握到它可能會進行聯合利劍C、D、E、F？"],["蔡局長明彥：各種可能性不能排除的原因，剛剛在機密會議也有提到，中共平常就有做聯合戰備警巡，它只要隨便透過日常的聯合戰備警巡，再給個代號就變成一個演習。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然。"],["蔡局長明彥：它就會變成一個常態化的演習。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是我想要強調一件事情，就像我們剛剛所說的，臺灣所有的民眾普遍都沒辦法認同這樣的恐嚇威脅。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們都不能接受。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們都一致譴責這樣的行為，但我要說明的是，當我們掌握到它的軍演次數有可能頻繁增加時，不管是不是聯合利劍，哪怕是鈍劍，只要有軍演的產生就有可能會不小心擦槍走火。"],["蔡局長明彥：是，我們會注意。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們應該全面的避免擦槍走火，對於捍衛中華民國主權與保障我們24浬之間一定要全面的捍衛，但是我們也希望不要有任何擦槍走火的事情發生，你可以認同嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：是，委員講的確實也是我們應處中共軍演很重要的一個考量，也就是我們一定要堅持我們的底線，捍衛我們的國家主權及周邊海空域的安全，但是在過程當中必須要做相關的必要風險控管。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我寄望於你們的內部會議，當然你不必告訴我你們講了什麼，但是因為兩岸缺乏溝通，如果有所謂的軍演變成擦槍走火，SOP該怎麼辦？我們該如何降到最低？我們該如何當下馬上處理這個誤會？這是很重要的一個SOP，你們的內部有研議嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，國防部這邊對於共軍機艦近接的應處程序都有一套SOP，這套SOP是經過長年運作經驗所制定，目的就是在……"],["羅委員廷瑋：現在對岸也封鎖拒絕與我們溝通，你覺得這套SOP還有用嗎？有沒有需要更精進？"],["蔡局長明彥：我知道委員關切的問題意識在哪裡，也就是說，我們的SOP是讓中共不能夠進犯到我們的24浬。在此也向委員報告，這幾次的演習，包括剛剛結束的2024B演習，都沒有讓共軍的機艦進入24浬。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，剛剛你就已經講了，24浬是我們絕對要堅守的。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但我現在是說未來像這樣的聯合利劍A、B、C、D、E、F軍演次數增加的話，我們在沒有溝通管道的情況之下，能夠避免擦槍走火的SOP一定要再精進、一定要再研議。"],["蔡局長明彥：應該的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最後我想請問一下，國安局目前是否有中共對臺動武的相關情資？或者是幾年內會發生？有沒有這樣的條件、這樣的啟動？你們有沒有這樣的情資？"],["蔡局長明彥：向委員說明一下，目前我們並沒有看到可以證明它即將、立即要對臺海發動戰爭的情資，沒有這樣的情資，但是他們各種的軍事準備或軍事演訓都不斷在進行，特別是9月到10月的這個階段，他們才剛剛完成全軍戰略演習，目前還在做一些補測考的科目，所以我們對於他們相關的動態都有完整的掌握。"],["羅委員廷瑋：局長，辛苦了！我們持續的努力加油。"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝羅委員的提醒。"],["羅委員廷瑋：記得我剛剛說的，一定要避免擦槍走火，全面捍衛中華民國，我們一定認同，好不好？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員，局長請回。","接下來進行詢答的鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","接下來進行詢答的是洪申翰委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":406,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-4","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","馬文君","黃仁","徐巧芯","林憶君","陳冠廷","黃國昌","賴士葆","羅廷瑋","洪申翰","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","翁曉玲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":351,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138301_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}