{"error":false,"id":["155568"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":155568,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155568","日期":"2024-10-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-20-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-10-16T11:48:45+08:00","結束時間":"2024-10-16T12:01:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:49","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"委員名稱":"羅明才","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9cb36b9643c5df69216703a1fff4e8753fad801f55955d8b1766e2bcab8f8c7ff6423ec9f839e5235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.06471875,"end":2.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.68034375,"end":3.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.14346875,"end":13.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.509718750000001,"end":17.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.98596875,"end":19.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.67346875,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.49534375,"end":28.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.718468750000003,"end":34.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.56971875,"end":38.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.02909375,"end":40.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.070968750000006,"end":42.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.42909375,"end":120.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.42221875000001,"end":115.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.27846875,"end":118.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.53534375000001,"end":120.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.22721875,"end":133.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.79909375,"end":136.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.71846875,"end":151.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.90159375000002,"end":153.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.60596875000002,"end":156.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.83346875,"end":157.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.11596875,"end":161.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.21659375000002,"end":168.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.10159375,"end":169.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.09721875000002,"end":172.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.30346875,"end":177.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.92284375,"end":181.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.36534375000002,"end":185.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.73596875,"end":194.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.40971875000002,"end":258.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.67846875000004,"end":264.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.63159375000004,"end":261.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.32721875000004,"end":264.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.44534375,"end":269.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.77846875,"end":266.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.82846875,"end":274.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.51971875000004,"end":275.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.47721875,"end":277.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.24909375000004,"end":281.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.82659375000003,"end":284.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.85596875000005,"end":289.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.88034375,"end":294.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.35659375,"end":294.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.56721875,"end":305.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.14346875,"end":308.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.82221875000005,"end":319.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.11221875,"end":319.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.04846875000004,"end":323.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.69784375,"end":326.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.68034375,"end":330.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.73471875,"end":335.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.98346875000004,"end":331.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.72096875,"end":338.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.16784375000003,"end":346.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.96409375,"end":351.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.79909375,"end":357.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.97096875,"end":358.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.94971875000005,"end":365.47596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.14721875000004,"end":363.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.61096875000004,"end":369.23909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.74596875000003,"end":366.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.19721875000005,"end":367.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.23909375000005,"end":373.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.72846875000005,"end":369.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.33096875,"end":375.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.63034375,"end":379.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.36409375000005,"end":380.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.51596875,"end":387.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.47346875000005,"end":381.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.84846875000005,"end":385.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.45159375000003,"end":392.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.80909375000005,"end":397.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.76221875000005,"end":403.79909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.38971875000004,"end":404.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.71034375000005,"end":407.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.10659375,"end":419.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":420.20159375000003,"end":421.09596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.99034375,"end":425.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.66909375,"end":427.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.41971875,"end":430.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.97159375,"end":437.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.17784375,"end":438.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.25346875,"end":444.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.02471875000003,"end":447.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.65721875,"end":450.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.01159375000003,"end":451.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.20096875,"end":451.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.63534375,"end":455.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.39846875,"end":459.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.58784375000005,"end":462.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.77284375000005,"end":465.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.42221875,"end":468.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.57784375000006,"end":470.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.96159375,"end":471.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.76721875000004,"end":473.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.69534375,"end":475.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.97346875000005,"end":477.17159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.74096875000004,"end":490.28346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":491.29596875000004,"end":493.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.09284375000004,"end":496.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.47659375,"end":501.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.70784375000005,"end":504.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.26409375000003,"end":509.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.63909375000003,"end":513.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.22909375,"end":515.0559687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.25846875,"end":518.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.15659375,"end":520.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.3715937500001,"end":521.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.9578437499999,"end":526.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.8347187500001,"end":527.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":527.72909375,"end":530.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.23471875,"end":533.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.95596875,"end":534.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.39034375,"end":536.3015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.5378437500001,"end":537.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.6684687500001,"end":538.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.56284375,"end":539.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.30096875,"end":541.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.97159375,"end":547.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.3672187500001,"end":550.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.7253437500001,"end":555.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.64034375,"end":560.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.4622187500001,"end":562.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.66034375,"end":566.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.7609687500001,"end":570.6928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.3003437500001,"end":575.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.27846875,"end":578.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.80534375,"end":582.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.93159375,"end":586.2178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":589.94721875,"end":591.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.26721875,"end":595.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.51971875,"end":604.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.23596875,"end":606.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.77159375,"end":608.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.77534375,"end":610.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.61909375,"end":615.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.0234687500001,"end":616.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.6940937500001,"end":616.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.7109687500001,"end":617.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.2847187500001,"end":623.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.1997187500001,"end":622.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.39784375,"end":622.4990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.96721875,"end":625.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.5365937500001,"end":625.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.78971875,"end":625.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.80659375,"end":630.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.0378437500001,"end":631.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.3034687500001,"end":633.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.63659375,"end":634.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.76721875,"end":634.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.77971875,"end":635.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.8134687500001,"end":636.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.4209687499999,"end":655.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.78534375,"end":654.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.2490937499999,"end":656.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":656.97471875,"end":657.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.0165937500001,"end":659.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":661.53096875,"end":662.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.03284375,"end":664.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":667.8928437500001,"end":669.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.7490937500002,"end":670.8797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":671.50409375,"end":672.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.5165937500001,"end":672.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.1072187500001,"end":674.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.03534375,"end":675.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":675.57096875,"end":675.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.58784375,"end":680.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.6840937500001,"end":681.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.1397187500002,"end":681.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.9665937500001,"end":682.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.2703437499999,"end":682.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.70909375,"end":685.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":685.99971875,"end":687.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":688.07534375,"end":690.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.7078437499999,"end":695.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":695.8547187500001,"end":700.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.9172187500001,"end":703.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.4778437500001,"end":707.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.6297187499999,"end":705.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":707.02596875,"end":707.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.7009687500001,"end":707.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":707.73471875,"end":714.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.9240937500001,"end":711.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":713.0334687500001,"end":713.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.51846875,"end":715.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.0247187500001,"end":715.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.07534375,"end":717.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.63221875,"end":718.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.60221875,"end":718.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":719.0578437500001,"end":720.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.38221875,"end":722.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.4622187500001,"end":724.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":724.77846875,"end":739.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":739.3247187500001,"end":747.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":747.81284375,"end":753.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.61784375,"end":753.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.6515937500001,"end":753.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.7022187500002,"end":757.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":756.8915937500001,"end":758.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.1740937500001,"end":760.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.2078437499999,"end":758.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.03846875,"end":765.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.4384687500001,"end":768.48471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.009,"end":3.61,"text":"主席可不可以請莊部長好部長委員好莊部長終於有見面了是在剛才的上個會期就是有關財政收支劃分法我們發現這個二十二縣市可以說是富者越富貧者越貧那長期失衡的關係之下"},{"start":28.769,"end":42.518,"text":"二十五年沒修的裁判法這個會期總應該提出本本要趕快來進行的吧不曉得你現在的作業的情況什麼時候要提出每個地方都RO逮捕阿"},{"start":44.88,"end":69.758,"text":"財政委員報告財政法這個部分我們在8月、9月已經在開了兩次會在積極的溝通跟協調地方政府對於指標的意見那我想在第一次已經把八十幾個縮減為五十幾個第二次會議的時候獲取更大的一個共識相關的應該納入的有共識部分包含人口數、土地面積、營利事業的營業額等等這都要放進去可是還有三個指標"},{"start":70.879,"end":71.92,"text":"中央通過統籌分配稅款還有一般性的補助款"},{"start":99.555,"end":104.661,"text":"一起在一直在挹注地方的財政同時透過計劃型的補助款讓地方能夠做更好的一個發展其實我們從數據來看的話113年比105年的統籌加上一般補助款已經成長46.7%是明年還會再增加900億沒有什麼嗷嗷待補啊"},{"start":121.263,"end":133.889,"text":"白熙來自新北那事實上新北人口400多萬人最多平均下來我們獲得的補助卻是倒數競賠莫做"},{"start":136.789,"end":161.079,"text":"本席值積極的為整個新北市的市民來請命來爭取就這五年以來當然有多增加一點增加一點但是還不足還是不夠你看看侯友宜市長他的規劃裡面每一年必須要多出大概五百億"},{"start":162.404,"end":185.286,"text":"雖然經過本席不斷的爭取,你有沒有數據表格?從五年前到現在,新北爭取增加了多少?今年度跟去年比起來,會不會再增加?增加多少?我是希望至少一百多億啦,但是你今年大概金額下來,也是還是不足啊?"},{"start":186.806,"end":213.841,"text":"其實一百多億看起來很多但是你二十九區平均下來其實就一點點而已我想羅委員來自新北市當然為新北市民來爭取更好的一個財源這個我們都可以理解當然我們也想到其他各個選區的委員們同樣也都在為他的選區爭取那也就大家都就他各有利的指標比如說新北市人口最多沒有錯人口最多"},{"start":214.341,"end":233,"text":"但是人口裡面我們將來還會要考慮那人口裡面還要考慮一個結構的部分因為部分縣市會說我的人口雖然不是最多可是我裡面65歲的年長者或者是14歲以下的孩童他是要施政成本比較高的但我的結構可能占比比較高譬如說土地面積也是一樣"},{"start":233.581,"end":234.121,"text":"部長,您就如其所願"},{"start":260.507,"end":276.737,"text":"每個地方真的需要的你就直接給他因為中華民國不是沒有錢啦你比如說證交稅光是證交稅今年啊這個現在十月了九月都達標了吧累計下來"},{"start":278.471,"end":291.805,"text":"10月是達到我們的預算數了到9月底9月底已經達到了嗎?已經達到了但是證交稅要看股市的一個成交量跟股市的成交量很有關係對,所以你遇到問題的話我們大陸來幫你想辦法比如說當中降稅當初你們一直想說當中降稅稅收會減少"},{"start":299.013,"end":308.256,"text":"但事實上當從降稅這幾年來你來看看我們的證交稅是增加還是減少就去年來說的話是增加多少"},{"start":309.858,"end":338.746,"text":"證券交易稅其實每年的情況不一樣跟它的成交量有的時候加有時候減是真的落差幅度是蠻大的譬如說去年來說的話增加了多少去年您是說達成預算數是不是全部的稅收證交稅的部分對證交稅部分我們這個數據可以再查一下1、2年我都算過你跟大概當沖實施之前每一年度都增加去年增加多少前年增加多少"},{"start":339.822,"end":364.891,"text":"一一二年我們的實徵數是一千九百七十三億比預算數是成長了四百多億比當沖降稅實施之前當沖降稅實施之前他只有成交量只有七百億一千億都不到他的徵交稅的數字就更低了更低了嘛對低多少105年的時候是七百零八億106年是八百九十九億"},{"start":365.811,"end":372.095,"text":"實施107年的時候是1011億所以相較之下每一年都多出了300億、600億到108年又只有900億了還不到1000億所以你平均每一年多了大概三五百億這個數字是不是會說那個數字變化很大110年是2700億但是111年只有1700億"},{"start":394.214,"end":420.817,"text":"對,所以它的要看市場的一個狀況對,你不能用單一來算你如果用單一的話倒不如你全部加總算起來跟以前比多多少那我們再加一下算一下待會再提供對,這個數字大家都看得到所以你現在的重點不是說你一直各縣市那麼欠缺的情況之下你要補助你就蔣東蔣西那事實上"},{"start":422.165,"end":430.309,"text":"在這裡有沒有通過很多的預算案?比如說國防軍購好了,去年軍購增加了多少?買軍火"},{"start":439.298,"end":464.879,"text":"不眨眼然後跟這個地方要補助的這些情況就跟蜘蛛屋講半天部長你就當一個樂觀當一個慷慨的財神爺大家有需要沒有需要不會來找你嘛那你真的缺錢你缺錢來找我們委員啊我們不是提了很多的案"},{"start":466.445,"end":493.47,"text":"例如說當沖降稅今天要討論啊我為了你都是為了你我把時間延長我提五年還被你們做掉新的主委跟我講說五年所以我就支持他我提五年就你們還是一樣小氣的這個制度小氣的心態又來了啊那不要五年弄三年為什麼不一次性直接"},{"start":495.128,"end":518.353,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":519.232,"end":539.148,"text":"因為你的稅變來變去你如果當中降稅的直接延長多一點他比較好安排有利全世界資金集結在台灣那還有很多很多啊所以我覺得部長你的思維啊應該是站在高崗上"},{"start":540.336,"end":547.821,"text":"包括 all of the 8 major public stock banks."},{"start":547.821,"end":554.707,"text":"你覺得他們現在的營業狀況,他們的表現你滿意嗎?每一位都非常的努力,而且表現也不錯。"},{"start":556.437,"end":577.743,"text":"對,你都覺得很好其實你應該把思維調整一下為什麼國內的前三大的銀行、金控公司他們的EPS每年可以達到大概10甚至以前還超過10請問巴拉公股銀行裡面表現最好是哪一家"},{"start":579.861,"end":608.749,"text":"我們的兆豐也不錯我們的第一也很好兆豐預估今年的EPS有多少去年好了去年來請上好了董事長部長有的思維調整一下因為公股銀行他們薪水跟其他民間比起來差太多了好的人才都不留在公股銀行啦"},{"start":609.807,"end":634.397,"text":"董事長你好請問去年你說那個表現最好兆豐去年的EPS是多少我們實際上配的那個大概是一塊半左右現金鼓勵好那去年的話表現最好大概富邦吧富邦金控都一樣跟你們做同樣的業務差不多啦都銀行那去年的富邦他的表現怎麼樣"},{"start":636.632,"end":664.671,"text":"負幫配多少我不曉得不過我跟報告委員是這樣子啦雖然說我們都是銀行都是金控但是我們的業務上面還是有很大的差別比如說我們是以銀行為主我們金控是以銀行為主那他們大概都是以證券與授權為主他們相對銀行的規模並沒有像我們的銀行規模那麼大好你要講這個講到授權台銀也有授權公司啊那表現怎麼樣?證券南加公股沒有證券的"},{"start":667.947,"end":674.799,"text":"何庫也有證券啊?台銀也有證券啊?那表現的話跟富邦比起來差多少?"},{"start":676.85,"end":703.283,"text":"說真的,如果是以關股的證券公司來講還是以兆豐最大對,你們兆豐有證券那你為什麼不立志贏過富邦?不立志贏過元大?當然那是我們的方向,我們努力的方向對,要努力啦,因為你是第一名我也不忍再講太多啦但是有一點要讓部長知道比如說董事長的薪水你們在這個位置一年大概年薪有多少?"},{"start":704.554,"end":725.923,"text":"以你做例子來說的話應該不到一千吧多少不到一千萬那一千你不到一千萬那跟民營銀行差很多啦都兩三千萬了那我為什麼要待在公股銀行是不是所以部長這個是多年的結構問題喔"},{"start":727.594,"end":747.029,"text":"也請部長好好思考一下重金之下必有勇夫讓整個公股銀行的績效好好思考怎麼樣來提升你多賺一點然後給民眾的給所有的二十二縣市的不要再支出弊計了"},{"start":747.881,"end":768.078,"text":"要就給他大方一點,做一個快樂的財神爺好不好?是,中央也要維持一定的財政韌性是,還是要…所以請我們幫你想辦法好,謝謝委員,謝謝委員指教,謝謝好,接著我們請邱志偉委員花言五分鐘"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:48:45 - 12:01:34","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理(含各轉投資事業機構公股代表之董、監事)列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查「證券交易稅條例」7案：\n(一)\t行政院函請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員羅明才等20人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員賴惠員等37人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(六)\t本院委員林楚茵等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(七)\t本院委員邱志偉等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":795,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（11時48分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，可否請莊部長？"],["主席：好，請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：莊部長，終於又見面了。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["羅委員明才：上個會期討論到財政收支劃分法，我們發現22個縣市中，可以說富者越富、貧者越貧，長期失衡的關係之下，25年沒有修正的財劃法，這個會期總應該提出版本趕快進行修法吧？不曉得你們現在的作業情況如何？什麼時候提出？因為每個地方都嗷嗷待哺。"],["莊部長翠雲：財劃法這個部分，我們8月、9月已經開了兩次會議，積極溝通、協調地方政府對於指標的意見，第一次已經把八十幾個問題縮減為五十幾個，第二次會議的時候獲致更大的共識。相關應該納入的、有共識的部分，包含人口數、土地面積、營利事業的營業額等等，這些都要放進去。可是還有三個指標，大家有不同意見，也就是支出節流的努力、污染防制、再生能源等指標，這些要放或不放，各地方政府還有不同意見。","除了指標之外，還有權重、調整係數的部分還要進一步討論。我們認為雖然財劃法25年沒有修正，但是中央透過統籌分配稅款，還有一般性補助款，一直在挹注地方財政，同時透過計劃型補助款，讓地方能夠更好的發展。其實從數據來看的話，113年和105年相比，統籌分配款加上一般補助款已經成長46.7%，明年還會再增加900億元，他們並沒有嗷嗷待哺啊！"],["羅委員明才：部長，本席來自新北市，事實上新北市的人口有四百多萬人，是人口最多的縣市，我們獲得的補助平均下來是倒數的，敬陪末座，所以本席一直積極為新北市市民請命、爭取。這5年來當然有增加一點，但還是不足，經費還是不夠用！你看看侯友宜市長的規劃，每一年大概會多出500億元，即便經過本席不斷的爭取。你有沒有數據資料？從5年前到現在，新北市增加多少經費？今年度和去年比起來，會不會再增加？會增加多少？本席希望至少有一百多億元，但今年的金額還是不足。其實一百多億元看起來好像很多，但是29區平均下來，其實只有一點點而已啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：了解。羅委員來自新北市，當然為新北市民爭取更好的財源，這我們可以理解。但我們也想到，其他選區的委員們同樣也在為他的選區爭取，大家都強調各自有利的指標，比如新北市人口最多，這沒有錯，新北市的確是人口最多的縣市，但我們還要考慮人口的結構，因為部分縣市會說我們的人口雖然不是最多的，可是其中有65歲的年長者或者14歲以下的孩童，他們的施政成本是比較高的，而這部分在我們的結構中可能占比比較高。","例如土地面積也是一樣，土地面積大的，他認為我的土地面積最大，但部分縣市也會說，我們的土地面積雖然不是最大的，可是都是農地，而田賦又停徵，所以我們的地價稅等於沒有收入。各地方的地方政府以及民意代表們，我相信都會為他自己的選區爭取，這個時候我們必須去平衡，計算一個合宜、合理的公式。"],["羅委員明才：部長，你就如其所願，如果地方真的有需要，你就直接給他，因為中華民國並不是沒有錢。比如證交稅，現在是10月，但它9月就達標了吧？累計下來。"],["莊部長翠雲：9月底已經達到我們的預算數。"],["羅委員明才：已經達到了嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：已經達到。"],["羅委員明才：是多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：但是證交稅要看股市的成交量，這和股市的成交量很有關係。"],["羅委員明才：對。所以你遇到問題的話，大家都會幫你想辦法。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：比如當沖降稅。當初你們一直想著，如果實施當沖降稅，稅收會減少，但事實上實施當沖降稅這幾年來，你看看我們的證交稅是增加還是減少？就去年來說是增加多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：其實每年的證交稅徵收情況不一樣，這和成交量有關，有的時候是加，有的時候是減，落差幅度真的滿大的，我們這裡也有準備一個……"],["羅委員明才：例如去年增加多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：去年？您是說達成預算數，是不是？"],["羅委員明才：全部的稅收，證交稅的部分。"],["莊部長翠雲：關於證交稅的部分，要再查一下才知道112年的數據。"],["羅委員明才：本席算過了，當沖實施之前，每一個年度都增加。去年增加多少？前年增加多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：112年的實徵數是1,973億元，和預算數相比，成長四百多億元。"],["羅委員明才：和當沖降稅實施之前相比。"],["莊部長翠雲：當沖降稅實施之前，成交量只有700億元，連1,000億元都不到，證交稅的數字就更低了。"],["羅委員明才：低多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：105年的時候是708億元，106年是899億元，107年是1,011億元。"],["羅委員明才：所以相較之下，每一年分別多出300億元、600億元。"],["莊部長翠雲：到108年又只有900億元，還不到1,000億元。"],["羅委員明才：所以平均每一年大概多了三、五百億元，數字會說話。"],["莊部長翠雲：您看，那個數字變化很大，110年是2,700億元，但是111年只有1,700億元，所以還是要看市場的狀況。"],["羅委員明才：對，你不能用單一年期計算，與單一年期計算相比，倒不如全部加總後計算。和以前相比增加多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們要算一下，待會再提供。"],["羅委員明才：這個數字大家都看的到。所以現在的重點是，各縣市都欠缺經費，需要你們補助，但你們卻東扯西扯。事實上我們在這裡通過很多預算案，例如國防軍購，去年軍購增加多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：您是說整體的預算案嗎？這一筆不是編列在我們這邊。"],["羅委員明才：買軍火不眨眼，但是地方需要補助就支支吾吾說半天，部長……"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有支支吾吾，我們的補助增加將近1兆元。"],["羅委員明才：部長，你就當一個樂觀、慷慨的財神爺，大家就是因為有需要才會提出，沒有需要就不會來找你嘛！如果你們真的缺錢就來找委員啊！我們不是提了很多案？例如當沖降稅，今天就要討論了。本席為了你們把時間延長，提案內容是5年，結果還被你們做掉。"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有。"],["羅委員明才：新的主委告訴本席5年，所以本席支持他，提案就寫5年，結果你們還是一樣，小氣的制度、小氣的心態又來了。那麼就不要5年，3年就好，為什麼不一次性、乾脆的，以比較快的速度處理？因為時間一眨眼就到了，過了3年之後，馬上又面臨是否再延期的問題。","金管會彭主委一直希望臺灣變成亞太資產管理營運中心，你們這樣做會讓國際資金很難安排，因為你們的稅變來變去，如果當沖降稅的年限直接延長久一點，他們也比較好安排，有利於全世界的資金集結在臺灣。其實還有很多、很多例子，部長，本席覺得你的思維應該要站在高崗上，包括八大公股銀行也是一樣，對於他們現在的營業狀況、表現，你滿意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：每一位都非常努力，而且表現也不錯。"],["羅委員明才：對，你覺得都很好。其實你的思維應該調整一下，為什麼國內前三大銀行、金控公司的EPS每年可以達到10%，甚至以前還超過10%？請問八大公股銀行表現最好的是哪一家？"],["莊部長翠雲：兆豐不錯，第一也很好。"],["羅委員明才：兆豐預估今年的EPS有多少？說明去年的情況就好，請董事長。部長，有時候思維要調整一下，因為公股銀行的薪水和其他民間銀行比起來差太多了，好的人才都不願意留在公股銀行。","董事長你好，去年你們的表現最好，兆豐去年的EPS是多少？"],["董董事長瑞斌：我們大概是配一塊半左右的現金股利。"],["羅委員明才：去年表現最好的大概是富邦吧！富邦金控和你們做一樣的業務，內容差不多啦！都是銀行。去年富邦的表現怎麼樣？"],["董董事長瑞斌：我不曉得富邦配多少。雖然我們都是銀行、都是金控，但我們的業務還是有很大的差別，比如我們的金控是以銀行為主，他們大概都是以證券、壽險為主，相對的，他們的銀行規模並沒有像我們的銀行那麼大。"],["羅委員明才：好，說到壽險，臺銀也有壽險公司，表現怎麼樣？至於證券，哪一家公股沒有證券？合庫有證券，臺銀也有證券，表現和富邦比起來差多少？"],["董董事長瑞斌：說真的，如果是以官股的證券公司來說，還是兆豐最大啦！"],["羅委員明才：對，你們兆豐也有證券。那你們為什麼不立志贏過富邦？不立志贏過元大？"],["董董事長瑞斌：當然，那是我們努力的方向。"],["羅委員明才：對，要努力啦！因為你們是第一名，本席也不忍再說太多啦！但是有一點要讓部長知道，例如董事長的薪水，你們這個位置的年薪大概是多少？以你為例子。"],["董董事長瑞斌：應該不到1,000萬元吧！"],["羅委員明才：多少？"],["董董事長瑞斌：不到1,000萬元。獎金等等全部加起來，大概是這樣，和民營銀行、金控差很多啦！"],["羅委員明才：領不到1,000萬元。民營銀行的副董都是兩、三千萬元，我們為什麼要待在公股銀行，是不是？部長，這是多年的結構問題，也請部長好好思考一下，因為重金之下必有勇夫。"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["羅委員明才：好好思考怎麼提升公股銀行的績效，你們多賺一點，不管是給民眾，或是給22個縣市，就不要再錙銖必較了，只要他們需要就給，大方一點，做一個快樂的財神爺，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。但中央還是要維持一定的財政韌性。"],["羅委員明才：缺錢的話，請我們幫你想辦法。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員，謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：好。接著請邱志偉委員發言，5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-2","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","王世堅","羅明才","邱志偉","陳培瑜","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":277,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公\n股代表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢；二、審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一)行政院函\n請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員羅明才等20人\n擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交\n易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員邱志偉等19\n人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1138501_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}