{"error":false,"id":["155589"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":155589,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155589","日期":"2024-10-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-26-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-10-16T12:16:58+08:00","結束時間":"2024-10-16T12:23:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:37","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"委員名稱":"羅智強","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9cb36b9643c5df6980f56d9ef82956d87dcb16210b9dd9171766e2bcab8f8c7ffbc2796317cda7cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.25346875,"end":8.316593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.78909375,"end":9.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.67034375,"end":13.277843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.73346875,"end":21.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.879718750000002,"end":31.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.832843750000002,"end":26.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.44846875,"end":28.667843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.726593750000003,"end":30.827843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.65471875,"end":32.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.228468750000005,"end":33.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.96659375,"end":39.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.21034375,"end":41.205968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.32409375,"end":46.133468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.353468750000005,"end":42.572843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.032218750000006,"end":46.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.572218750000005,"end":57.237218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.90971875,"end":47.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.11471875,"end":58.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.04284375,"end":63.565343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.67909375,"end":65.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.50596875000001,"end":71.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.75034375,"end":68.23971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.54284375,"end":72.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.76221875,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.32909375,"end":92.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.89846875,"end":92.23596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.06284375,"end":93.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.95721875000001,"end":95.40846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.26846875000001,"end":100.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.02784375,"end":104.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.92596875000001,"end":106.57971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.19596875,"end":115.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.54471875,"end":117.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.86096875000001,"end":116.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.00409375000001,"end":124.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.66534375,"end":136.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.53846875,"end":129.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.41471875000002,"end":137.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.15284375000002,"end":139.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.23284375,"end":140.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.97096875,"end":150.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.38284375,"end":154.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.93909375,"end":164.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.65909375,"end":166.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.08909375000002,"end":173.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.91159375,"end":172.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.15159375000002,"end":181.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.60721875000002,"end":175.68284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.24784375000002,"end":179.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.63971875000001,"end":185.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.88784375,"end":190.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.00534375,"end":206.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.18846875000003,"end":208.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.36534375000002,"end":214.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.60909375,"end":215.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.52034375000002,"end":228.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.54971875,"end":218.17409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.85596875000002,"end":243.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.60471875000002,"end":255.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.05846875000003,"end":259.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.73721875,"end":261.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.66096875,"end":267.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.57159375000003,"end":291.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.82971875000004,"end":289.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.53409375,"end":291.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.52971875000003,"end":298.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.73096875000005,"end":300.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.83221875000004,"end":300.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.58721875000003,"end":303.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.60409375,"end":302.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.05096875000004,"end":317.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.20909375,"end":319.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.42409375,"end":320.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.82471875000005,"end":323.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.17909375,"end":321.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.35596875000005,"end":334.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.01284375,"end":332.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.08034375,"end":332.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.18159375000005,"end":332.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.59034375000005,"end":336.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.92346875000004,"end":337.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.81784375,"end":340.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.02846875,"end":354.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.99034375,"end":344.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.07346875,"end":350.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.38909375000003,"end":354.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.99659375000005,"end":379.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.02909375,"end":365.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.61096875000004,"end":366.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.65284375000005,"end":368.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.25846875,"end":385.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.62471875,"end":387.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.77221875000004,"end":388.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.89846875,"end":395.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.32784375,"end":397.33596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.29,"end":21.4,"text":"主席有請部長有請何部長委員好首先想請教部長您覺得在這幾年我們民進黨政府的努力之下低薪的問題改善的如何"},{"start":23.435,"end":26.057,"text":"過去3年,受雇員工的經常性薪資是增加還是減少?"},{"start":40.273,"end":47.177,"text":"是增加的啊增加的嗎你要不要去看勞動統計網勞動統計網是政府的網站吧是2021年他列的數據是-0.162022年是-0.242023年是-0.25部長那我是這個勞動統計網是外星網嗎我看錯了嗎"},{"start":65.56,"end":91.298,"text":"你數字可能還是掌握清楚一點好不好這是我們幫助從勞動統計網找的數字沒關係我們繼續來講我想跟部長說會後你再把資料給我我跟部長說連續三年如果按照勞動統計網受僱員工經常薪資薪資都是下降的那我覺得說真的我覺得部長勞動部的努力空間可能要更大一點不好意思委員"},{"start":101.083,"end":102.224,"text":"我再想請教你也是根據勞動統計網啦過去10年裡哪一年實質薪資減少最多部長告訴我"},{"start":126.291,"end":138.677,"text":"我看你真的對勞動統計網不太熟悉政府的資訊網站的數字還是注意一下我告訴部長就是去年負1.79那這個減幅是除了2008年2009年全世界爆發金融危機以來勞動統計網從1999年20多年來統計裡面減幅最高的一年"},{"start":155.967,"end":166.754,"text":"沒有國際金融危機也沒有重大天災我不太清楚我去年如果說實質薪資大幅倒退的原因是什麼部長可以告訴我嗎去年到底發生什麼事情"},{"start":168.374,"end":188.589,"text":"疫情結束 去年疫情結束 可是才剛結束 理論上應該發生在疫情當下 疫情結束 理論上應該經濟是復甦的吧尤其去年是疫情剛結束那一年 經濟應該是開始復甦吧沒有關係 不然我再請教下一個問題"},{"start":192.236,"end":213.829,"text":"111年,受僱員工全年薪資平均數是69.3萬,對不對?這主計總署的資料那你認為有多少比例的勞工薪資比69.3萬低?就是比這個所謂的勞工的朋友比這個平均數的數字低"},{"start":216.564,"end":242.48,"text":"我也告訴您啦是68.61所以換言之有近七成的勞工薪資是沒有達到平均我先這樣講我跟那個部長為什麼要問這個問題你應該知道我們最近這個物價的騰貴的問題是勞工朋友很在乎的嘛對不對像剛剛前吳宗憲委員也講到我們的臺灣的工時也是全世界這個排行非常赫赫有名的工時長嘛對不對"},{"start":243.681,"end":272.018,"text":"那你這樣物價騰貴工時超長又再薪資倒退我說真的這種勞工三苦齁身為勞動部部長我覺得你們的努力可能要再多加一把勁可以嗎我以為不過我們工時其實真的那個不是你跟我講現在我們工時並不長啊沒有沒有我們工時那是因為我們的全時的工時人數多啦部長你去你去跟你去跟我們勞工朋友交代一下如果你的你的所謂的"},{"start":272.638,"end":298.215,"text":"政府的首長經驗的觀感落差跟我們現在勞工朋友落差這麼大的話我覺得那就像你不太了解我們的勞動統計網的數字一樣我會有點擔心啦所以我跟你講就是說要多一點同理心那是解決問題的前提我想要問您下一個問題政府說要推動五年期的AI發展戰略計畫要砸多少錢五年要砸多少錢"},{"start":302.817,"end":318.794,"text":"190億元那當然AI不是現在開始做其實政府過去都有投入一定的預算那我想請教一下您知道勞動部過去針對職安有運用科技智慧的計畫是哪個計畫你知道嗎我們職安署嗎對對對"},{"start":320.879,"end":321.339,"text":"我請署長回答好嗎?"},{"start":338.164,"end":342.488,"text":"我講經費你看對不對啦,一億四千萬嘛,一億四千三百三十萬嘛"},{"start":355.057,"end":357.318,"text":"這個平台資料庫設計以來它是要來建置全國工作者職業安全衛生資料結果花了一億四千萬總共只收入到一成"},{"start":380.345,"end":380.505,"text":"拜託羅智強"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:16:58 - 12:23:35","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1133,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時16分）謝謝主席！有請部長。"],["主席：有請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：首先想請教部長的是，您覺得這幾年在我們民進黨政府的努力之下，低薪的問題改善得如何？"],["何部長佩珊：不敢說百分百，可是說真的，委員，我們確實真的有提升，包括最低工資到經常性薪資。"],["羅委員智強：那我想請教您，過去三年受雇員工的經常性實質薪資是增加還是減少？"],["何部長佩珊：是增加的。"],["羅委員智強：增加的嗎？你要不要去看勞動統計網，勞動統計網是政府的網站，2021年它列的數據是-0.16，2022年是-0.24，2023年是-0.25，部長，勞動統計網是外星網嗎？我看錯了嗎？數字你可能還是要掌握清楚一點，這是我們辦公室從勞動統計網找的數字。沒關係，我們繼續講，請部長會後再把資料給我。我跟部長說，如果按照勞動統計網，連續三年受僱員工經常性實質薪資都是下降的，那我覺得說真的，勞動部的努力空間可能要更大一點。"],["何部長佩珊：委員我跟您報告，我們這邊掌握的數字是……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係啦！你把掌握的數字事後給我，因為現在沒時間給你看那麼多，你的勞動統計網要不要上去改一改？還是這個公家的統計網網站直接廢掉好了？"],["何部長佩珊：我們再跟委員確認好嗎？謝謝！"],["羅委員智強：我再請教你，也是根據勞動統計網，請問部長過去10年裡，哪一年實質薪資減少最多？我看你真的對勞動統計網不太熟悉，對政府資訊網站的數字還是要注意一下。我告訴部長，就是去年，達到-1.79，這個減幅是除了2008年、2009年全世界爆發金融危機以來，勞動統計網從1999年二十多年來統計裡面減幅最高的一年，既沒有國際金融危機也沒有重大天災，我不太清楚去年實質薪資大幅倒退的原因是什麼，部長可以告訴我嗎？去年到底發生什麼事情？"],["何部長佩珊：我想疫情期間……"],["羅委員智強：去年疫情結束耶！"],["何部長佩珊：可是才剛結束，那個應該是統計前一年的。"],["羅委員智強：那理論上應該發生在疫情當下，疫情結束理論上應該經濟是復甦的吧，尤其去年是疫情剛結束那一年，經濟應該是開始復甦吧？","沒有關係，部長，我再請教下一個問題。111年受僱員工全年薪資平均數是69.3萬元，對不對？這是主計總處的資料，你認為有多少比例的勞工薪資比69.3萬元低？就是勞工朋友的薪資比這個平均數字低，我也告訴你，是68.61%，換言之，有近七成的勞工薪資是沒有達到平均。我先這樣講，部長，我為什麼要問這個問題？你應該知道最近物價騰貴的問題也是勞工朋友很在乎的，對不對？像剛剛吳宗憲委員也講到我們臺灣的工時也是全世界排行非常赫赫有名，就是工時長，像這樣物價騰貴，工時超長，又薪資倒退，我說真的，這種勞工三苦，身為勞動部部長，我覺得你們的努力可能要再多加一把勁，可以嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，不過我們的工時其實不是……"],["羅委員智強：你跟我講現在我們工時並不長？"],["何部長佩珊：不，那是因為我們全時的工時人數多啦！"],["羅委員智強：部長，你去跟我們勞工朋友交代一下，如果你所謂政府首長經驗的觀感跟現在勞工朋友的落差這麼大的話，我覺得那就像你不太了解勞動統計網的數字一樣，我會有點擔心啦。所以我跟您講要多一點同理心，那是解決問題的前提。"],["何部長佩珊：是，當然。"],["羅委員智強：我繼續問您下一個問題，政府說要推動五年期的AI發展戰略計畫要砸多少錢？五年要砸多少錢？190億元啦！當然AI不是現在才開始做，其實政府過去都有投入一定的預算，我想請教一下，您知道勞動部過去針對職安有運用科技智慧的計畫是哪個計畫嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我們職安署嗎？"],["羅委員智強：對、對。"],["何部長佩珊：運用科技的計畫，你是指……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講好了，109年到112年勞動部有推動一個全國職業安全衛生智能發展中程計畫，你知道這個計畫總共花了多少錢嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我請署長回答好嗎？"],["羅委員智強：好。"],["鄒署長子廉：報告委員，我有點不太有印象……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係啦，這個我不會考你啦，因為我覺得這個要考你，細節你也記不得。"],["鄒署長子廉：這次計畫主要是為了我們在市場上工業用的機器人……"],["羅委員智強：我講經費你看對不對啦？1億4,330萬元。"],["鄒署長子廉：是。"],["羅委員智強：那請問你覺得這個計畫如何？因為部長剛上來，問他可能也搞不清楚。"],["鄒署長子廉：報告委員，因為過去我們發現我們產業用很多工業用機器人……"],["羅委員智強：我直接講你的績效啦，我跟你講，我也是期勉你做得更好，這個平台資料庫設計以來，它是要來建置全國工作者職業安全衛生資料，結果花了1億4,000萬元，總共只收入到一成，三年的時間只收入到一成，九成的資料沒有，部長，你覺得滿意嗎？我問部長啦，你滿意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我們來檢討好嗎？我們來檢討。"],["羅委員智強：好，我跟你講，AI我們當然是贊同，但是如果以過去這種績效，我覺得恐怕要加把勁啦，以上，謝謝。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅智強委員。","接下來請吳春城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}