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12,"end":306.252,"text":"蔡易餘委員．"},{"start":321.941,"end":337.698,"text":"會跟國發會合作,會有一些鬆綁關於中階技術人才的開放。對,對外企的開放。OK,除了中階技術人才,事實上一些傳統的比較工作性質比較辛苦的,所以我們說的3K產業,他們對移工需求也是很大。對委員這部分我們會來檢討。而且你們在檢討的速度很慢。"},{"start":341.401,"end":364.768,"text":"我剛以前我還跟你說這個漁產的加工漁產的加工對不對從我從當時15%那我再跟你們講欸這不公平因為水產品的加工是15%那如果是蓄產品的加工是25%我講應該要讓它一致啊為什麼水產品對不對做水產的含含那個炒豬肉的為什麼要讓他沒工啊他想我講這個要檢討結果用兩天的時間"},{"start":369.449,"end":386.323,"text":"才把他檢討讓他一致那我最近我有發現說欸台灣我們有很多在做高空煙火的不是傳統的那種炮竹工廠在做高空煙火的我們當初也有一間嘛欸這個高空煙火他是賣到迪士尼可是你知道做煙火的產業具有危險性"},{"start":387.574,"end":403.499,"text":"要去聘請台灣人有困難有困難所以他需要移工哇沒辦法他還沒有被開放那如果我要招待個兩年的話在在一個產業讓他可以被檢討進去要兩年的時間真的是太久了啦"},{"start":403.999,"end":422.01,"text":"委員我了解我其實我現在針對這種只要是主管機關有提案我們都盡量鬆綁像最近我們已經通過農業部再增加8000的農業移工然後還有包括環境資源環境部他對這一種資源回收產業"},{"start":423.271,"end":423.692,"text":"蔡易餘蔡易餘"},{"start":440.194,"end":440.354,"text":"好 好 好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"12:42:24 - 12:50:12","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【10月16日及17日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1258,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（12時42分）謝謝主席，有請勞動部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，針對現在產業缺工的狀況，你應該時　　常聽到很多企業都在抱怨。"],["何部長佩珊：是，當然。"],["蔡委員易餘：你們心中覺得這個產業缺工到底是什麼原因？是薪水不夠？還是年輕人對於產業、對於工作項目不期待？到底是什麼原因？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，缺工的原因當然一方面也有結構性的因素，因為少子化嘛！另一方面當然也有疫後臨時性需求的爆發，因為前面有很多人就退場了，比如講服務業，疫後臨時性的需求爆發，一時找不到人，也有這樣的因素。"],["蔡委員易餘：這個因素是比較大的，可是事實上對產業的各行各業，我相信你都知道，事實上他們在招募的時候，他們是沒辦法從本籍的年輕人去尋找到他們需要的勞動力，因為意願不高，因為現在年輕人比較不喜歡被管，而且他們現在進入AI的時代，他們也覺得更喜歡屬於比較高度自由的，所以類似在工廠、類似在餐飲、在服務業需要被管理的產業，年輕人不去，所以他們需要移工。但是我們臺灣的移工政策還是活在過去3K五級制，就是要有一定的比例，為了這個比例，比方食品製造業是屬於C級，C級的食品製造業為了請一個移工，我可能要請7個本籍勞工，我才能聘請1個移工，問題這7個我就找不來，我就找不來這7個，所以我要請1個移工根本都很困難。所以部長你再認真去看，現在臺灣都是跟日韓對比，現在日本跟韓國就在做移工政策的競賽，兩個國家在那邊拼哪個國家對移工比較讚。","我舉日本為例，日本在2019年就開放藍領可以招募外國移工，然後居留五年，針對建築業、造船、船舶、機械業的監督職務，如果移工已經做到主管，就無居留期限，而且還能帶家人一起前往，無居留期限耶！現在臺灣只有叫做入籍，我們還沒有永居，臺灣現在連永居的制度都還沒有，日本就已經創造了這樣無居留期限，還可以帶家人一起去住。2023年即去年6月的時候，日本還更進一步，那時候岸田在做首相的時候，他就宣布包括製造業、農業、旅宿、餐飲這些產業都可以聘請移工，也是無限期居留，也是可以帶家人同往。哇！現在臺灣餐飲業都還沒有辦法聘請移工。我們都一直有一個觀念，就是不行，因為移工來了會搶了臺灣年輕人的工作，問題是事實也不是這樣啊，既然我們知道事實就不是這樣的話，我們為什麼不大步向前走？把整個移工政策澈底的鬆綁，讓整個臺灣的勞動力補足，而且只要臺灣越國際，臺灣就越安全。部長，我想要聽一下你的看法。"],["何部長佩珊：是，這個問題確實就是委員所講的，是當今我們所面臨的重大問題，我們最新做的缺工調查裡面，我們也發現您講的所謂中階技術人才這一塊是我們目前最缺的，其實我們在最基層的體力工作就移工那部分其實補的都OK了，那當然……"],["蔡委員易餘：NO！部長你有沒有看到我剛講的包括餐飲，包括住宿業，這些是沒有辦法的啊！我剛有舉例日本都已經開放了啊，我們臺灣在這一塊還沒辦法讓移工進去。"],["何部長佩珊：現在已經開放僑外生可以從事旅宿業。"],["蔡委員易餘：是，那是僑外生，那不一樣。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們也把它定義成大概是中階，就是只進服務業的。當然是這樣，委員跟您報告，我注意到經濟委員會有很多委員也提了過去的新經濟移民法，裡面包含未來可能開放外籍中階人才這樣的修法，我瞭解國發會也有這樣的想法跟規劃，我們勞動部現在正在跟國發會討論當中，在這部分我們預備跟國發會合作，會有一些鬆綁，關於中階技術人才的開放。"],["蔡委員易餘：OK！除了中階技術人才，事實上一些傳統工作性質比較辛苦的，我們說的3K產業，他們對於移工需求也是很大。"],["何部長佩珊：對，委員這部分我們會來檢討。"],["蔡委員易餘：你們檢討的速度很慢，以前我跟你提到漁產的加工，我以當時15%來跟你們講這不公平，因為水產品的加工是15%，如果是畜產品的加工是25%，我說應該要讓它一致啊，為什麼做水產的和切豬肉的要讓它不一樣？那時候我跟你們說這個要檢討，結果用兩年的時間才把它檢討，讓它一致。我最近也發現臺灣有很多在做高空煙火，不是傳統的那種炮竹工廠，在做高空煙火的像我們東石也有一間，他們做高空煙火賣到迪士尼，可是你知道做煙火的產業是具有危險性，要聘請臺灣人有困難，所以需要移工，哇！沒辦法，這個還沒有開放，如果一個產業要兩年才可以被檢討進去，兩年這個時間真的是太久了啦！"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我了解，現在針對這種只要是主管機關有提案，我們都儘量鬆綁，像最近我們已經通過農業部再增加8,000人的農業移工，然後還有包括環境資源，環境部對資源回收產業過去沒有適用移工，我們也開放讓這部分進來。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長都可以去探聽，像我聽到很多東南亞的他們甚至給我訊息，現在去泰國工作，去當泰國的移工，其實條件已經沒有比臺灣差了，所以現在很多人跑去泰國當移工喔，以前是泰國人來臺灣幫我們做工作啊！"],["何部長佩珊：對，全球搶工嘛！"],["蔡委員易餘：現在是大家一起跑去泰國，所以世界正在改變，全世界都面對少子化，也不是只有臺灣有少子化，但是臺灣的政策卻走得比人家還慢，這是我們要趕快加緊腳步來調整，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席（劉委員建國代）：謝謝蔡委員。","接下來請張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員不在。","請廖先翔委員、廖先翔委員、廖先翔委員不在。","請羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","請葉元之委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-4","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","林國成","羅智強","吳春城","邱若華","牛煦庭","蔡易餘","葉元之","楊曜","劉建國","麥玉珍"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}