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對不對所以我要說什麼賴總統說革命先烈拋頭如灑熱血揭竿起義推翻帝制建有自冥想的民主共和國我很遺憾啊賴總統講得這麼真誠但在我們偉大的教育部去中化的課綱課本裡面"},{"start":252.446,"end":252.926,"text":"好棒的回答謝謝部長"},{"start":282.13,"end":282.171,"text":"部長請回。謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:20:58.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:21:00.637000+08:00","text":"主席，有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T13:21:00.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:21:06.722000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-16T13:21:06.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:21:06.962000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:21:07.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:21:08.163000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:21:10.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:21:37.144000+08:00","text":"「113年前，有一群充滿理想抱負的人揭竿起義、推翻帝制，他們的夢想是建立一個民有、民治、民享的民主共和國，他們的理想是打造一個自由、平等、博愛的國度，因為這正是創建中華民國的先烈拋頭顱、灑熱血，所秉持的精神」，請問你知道這段話是誰說的嗎？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-16T13:21:40.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:21:45.941000+08:00","text":"這是總統在國慶慶典上所說的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:21:46.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:21:47.764000+08:00","text":"非常好，這就是賴清德總統說的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:21:47.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:21:48.465000+08:00","text":"你認同這段話嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-16T13:21:48.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:00.879000+08:00","text":"我想中華民國當時整個創國的精神確實是基於這樣。對喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:00.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:08.883000+08:00","text":"本席也非常認同賴總統這段話，他特別在國慶文告中提起來，當然也是認為這個內容是重要的嘛！","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:09.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:09.823000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:09.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:12.584000+08:00","text":"因此他要向國人同胞強調。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:12.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:22.127000+08:00","text":"但是本席想請教部長，賴總統提到的這段中華民國建國史，在現在的課綱跟課本中哪裡可以找得到？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:22.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:25.307000+08:00","text":"哪一冊歷史教科書中有提到？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:30.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:31.649000+08:00","text":"部長，你自己都不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:32.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:34.269000+08:00","text":"還要找國教院來？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:34.269000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:35.269000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:34.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:35.309000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:35.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:35.510000+08:00","text":"可以啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:35.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:36.250000+08:00","text":"當然是可以啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:36.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:39.370000+08:00","text":"這在歷史領綱上是有的。有啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:39.370000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:40.370000+08:00","text":"你有看過嗎？唉！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:40.370000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:41.370000+08:00","text":"點頭點得那麼心虛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:40.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:40.771000+08:00","text":"我告訴你啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:45.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:22:50.448000+08:00","text":"本席翻遍高中歷史課本，賴總統講的這些完全不存在！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:22:51.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:02.292000+08:00","text":"主題式教學的高中歷史絲毫不提中華民國的建國史，好像我們的中華民國是1949年才憑空而出，你有注意到這個狀況嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:02.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:05.353000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，領綱是一種方向、一種架構，教科書會根據那個來撰寫。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:05.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:05.733000+08:00","text":"方向、架構？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:05.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:05.973000+08:00","text":"沒關係啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:06.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:13.717000+08:00","text":"因為今天主席的時間限制很嚴格，你今天會後找一本教科書送到我辦公室來好不好？","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:13.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:14.317000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:14.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:14.717000+08:00","text":"可以、可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:15.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:17.979000+08:00","text":"有寫到剛剛賴總統講的這段話、中華民國建國史？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:18.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:21.080000+08:00","text":"你找一冊高中教科書給我，做得到嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:21.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:22.041000+08:00","text":"方向跟精神……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:22.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:25.763000+08:00","text":"你不要跟我講方向、精神，我要你給我教科書、白紙黑字！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:26.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:26.583000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:27.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:28.284000+08:00","text":"不可能跟賴總統講的一模一樣……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:28.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:28.664000+08:00","text":"不可能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:29.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:34.007000+08:00","text":"對於中華民國建國史，請你拿一冊高中教科書、白紙黑字給我，可以嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:34.007000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:38.986000+08:00","text":"我們會努力。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:38.986000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:43.965000+08:00","text":"你這樣講話真是心虛到……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:43.965000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:48.944000+08:00","text":"不是跟總統講的話每個字都一樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:48.944000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:53.923000+08:00","text":"沒關係啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:53.923000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:23:58.902000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，你到現在……部長可能不熟悉，那就算了，而你身為國教單位，自己也搞到講話那麼心虛？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:23:58.902000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:03.881000+08:00","text":"我再告訴你，你以為我只有翻遍高中歷史課本找不到啊，我國目前的國中歷史有嗎？","quality":0.265},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:03.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:04.742000+08:00","text":"欸，又愣住了，不會吧？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:05.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:06.683000+08:00","text":"不，我說過了，那是撰寫……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:07.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:08.684000+08:00","text":"又是撰寫體例了喔？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:08.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:09.044000+08:00","text":"不會吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:10.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:20.291000+08:00","text":"按照編年史教學的國中歷史也只以隻字片語提到保路運動，爆發辛亥革命，孫中山擔任中華民國臨時大總統。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:20.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:23.053000+08:00","text":"這部分內容，請問放在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副院長慶祥","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:23.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:25.414000+08:00","text":"放在國中八年級的歷史課本。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:25.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:28.476000+08:00","text":"放在中國跟東亞史，當作外國史來教啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:29.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:29.937000+08:00","text":"沒錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:31.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:31.738000+08:00","text":"中國歷史。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:32.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:34.510000+08:00","text":"中國跟東亞史嘛！是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:35.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:37.372000+08:00","text":"跟外國歷史併起來教啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:38.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:39.754000+08:00","text":"東亞的外國歷史併起來教啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:40.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:40.094000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:40.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:44.597000+08:00","text":"所以我要說什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:44.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:53.444000+08:00","text":"賴總統說革命先烈拋頭顱、灑熱血，揭竿起義、推翻帝制，建立民有、民治、民享的民主共和國。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:53.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:24:54.224000+08:00","text":"我很遺憾啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:24:56.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:01.089000+08:00","text":"賴總統講得這麼真誠，但在我們偉大的教育部去中化課綱、課本裡面，似乎很怕學生學到這段歷史啊！","quality":0.683},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:01.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:02.089000+08:00","text":"那我想請教部長，你可不可以把賴清德總統這段話放進高中歷史裡面，恢復中華民國建國史啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:02.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:03.089000+08:00","text":"可不可以？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:03.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:04.089000+08:00","text":"可不可以？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:04.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:05.089000+08:00","text":"我想我們還是會尊重課綱委員的意見……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:05.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:06.089000+08:00","text":"哈哈哈哈！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:06.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:07.089000+08:00","text":"你們找的課綱委員是去中華民國課綱委員，你們再尊重去中華民國課綱委員，然後中華民國課本裡面就沒有中華民國建國史！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:03.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:03.866000+08:00","text":"好棒的回答！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:03.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:03.926000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:33.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:33.171000+08:00","text":"部長請回，謝謝羅智強委員的質詢。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-16T13:25:33.671000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-16T13:25:36.813857+08:00","text":"下一位請翁曉玲委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:20:51 - 13:25:35","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關教育部主管預算解凍案11案。）","gazette":{"lineno":1316,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（13時20分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。「113年前，有一群充滿理想抱負的人揭竿起義、推翻帝制，他們的夢想是建立一個民有、民治、民享的民主共和國，他們的理想是打造一個自由、平等、博愛的國度，因為這正是創建中華民國的先烈拋頭顱、灑熱血，所秉持的精神」，請問你知道這段話是誰說的嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這是總統在國慶慶典上所說的。"],["羅委員智強：非常好，這就是賴清德總統說的。你認同這段話嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想中華民國當時整個創國的精神確實是基於這樣。"],["羅委員智強：對喔！本席也非常認同賴總統這段話，他特別在國慶文告中提起來，當然也是認為這個內容是重要的嘛！對不對？因此他要向國人同胞強調。但是本席想請教部長，賴總統提到的這段中華民國建國史，在現在的課綱跟課本中哪裡可以找得到？哪一冊歷史教科書中有提到？部長，你自己都不知道？還要找國教院來？對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以嗎？"],["羅委員智強：可以啦！當然是可以啦！"],["顏副院長慶祥：這在歷史領綱上是有的。"],["羅委員智強：有啊？你有看過嗎？唉！點頭點得那麼心虛。我告訴你啊！本席翻遍高中歷史課本，賴總統講的這些完全不存在！主題式教學的高中歷史絲毫不提中華民國的建國史，好像我們的中華民國是1949年才憑空而出，你有注意到這個狀況嗎？"],["顏副院長慶祥：跟委員報告，領綱是一種方向、一種架構，教科書會根據那個來撰寫。"],["羅委員智強：方向、架構？沒關係啦！因為今天主席的時間限制很嚴格，你今天會後找一本教科書送到我辦公室來好不好？可以嗎？"],["顏副院長慶祥：可以、可以。"],["羅委員智強：有寫到剛剛賴總統講的這段話、中華民國建國史？你找一冊高中教科書給我，做得到嗎？"],["顏副院長慶祥：方向跟精神……"],["羅委員智強：你不要跟我講方向、精神，我要你給我教科書、白紙黑字！有沒有？"],["顏副院長慶祥：不可能跟賴總統講的一模一樣……"],["羅委員智強：不可能？對於中華民國建國史，請你拿一冊高中教科書、白紙黑字給我，可以嗎？"],["顏副院長慶祥：我們會努力。"],["羅委員智強：你這樣講話真是心虛到……"],["顏副院長慶祥：不是跟總統講的話每個字都一樣。"],["羅委員智強：沒關係啦！我告訴你，你到現在……部長可能不熟悉，那就算了，而你身為國教單位，自己也搞到講話那麼心虛？我再告訴你，你以為我只有翻遍高中歷史課本找不到啊，我國目前的國中歷史有嗎？欸，又愣住了，不會吧？"],["顏副院長慶祥：不，我說過了，那是撰寫……"],["羅委員智強：又是撰寫體例了喔？不會吧？按照編年史教學的國中歷史也只以隻字片語提到保路運動，爆發辛亥革命，孫中山擔任中華民國臨時大總統。這部分內容，請問放在哪裡？"],["顏副院長慶祥：放在國中八年級的歷史課本。"],["羅委員智強：放在中國跟東亞史，當作外國史來教啦！沒錯吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：中國歷史。"],["羅委員智強：中國跟東亞史嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["羅委員智強：跟外國歷史併起來教啦！東亞的外國歷史併起來教啦！對不對？所以我要說什麼？賴總統說革命先烈拋頭顱、灑熱血，揭竿起義、推翻帝制，建立民有、民治、民享的民主共和國。我很遺憾啊！賴總統講得這麼真誠，但在我們偉大的教育部去中化課綱、課本裡面，似乎很怕學生學到這段歷史啊！","那我想請教部長，你可不可以把賴清德總統這段話放進高中歷史裡面，恢復中華民國建國史啊？可不可以？可不可以？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我們還是會尊重課綱委員的意見……"],["羅委員智強：哈哈哈哈！你們找的課綱委員是去中華民國課綱委員，你們再尊重去中華民國課綱委員，然後中華民國課本裡面就沒有中華民國建國史！好棒的回答！謝謝部長。"],["主席：部長請回，謝謝羅智強委員的質詢。","下一位請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":394,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-4","speakers":["范雲","萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","林倩綺","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","張雅琳","黃珊珊","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","楊瓊瓔","李昆澤","王鴻薇","吳宗憲","李坤城","吳春城","高金素梅","徐巧芯","葉元之","羅智強","翁曉玲","廖偉翔","林思銘","沈伯洋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","徐富癸","黃國昌","劉建國"],"page_start":305,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138401_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查113年度中央政府總預算有\n關教育部主管預算解凍案11案","agenda_id":"1138401_00018"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}