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是很嗨啊官員很嗨啊結果去的民眾各位沒多少花了269萬我期待看到你們的成果效益評估啊我算一算啊平均一個人花在一個人身上大概一萬多塊 兩萬塊我看完了以後發現我們交通部很有錢啊"},{"start":235.151,"end":257.161,"text":"觀光署很有錢錢這樣花的第二個問題再麻煩署長就是回去以後用書面告訴我這個經費編在哪一個預算科目向下這沒問題可以嗎因為我回來了以後我開始檢討這個活動編在哪一個預算科目向下"},{"start":258.393,"end":287.392,"text":"我把今年的預算書不是今年要審明年的是去年已經審完今年的預算書我從頭到尾翻我看不到到底邊在哪裡那這個資訊對我們來講很重要因為這個預算到底邊在哪裡我們這個會期要審預算嘛這個會期既然要審預算那就要負責任的審啊秉持著我們卓榮泰院長所講的公帑不可以隨便浪費啊的精神"},{"start":288.291,"end":317.062,"text":"但我們如果要負責任的做到這件事情那我第一件事情就要知道到底變在哪裡這樣子我們在審預算的時候才有一個依據那第二個事情可能你們在提出評估報告的時候順便稍微說明一下因為連卓榮泰院長自己都說了標案集中在特定的場上不是一件健康的事情特別是你們在辦這些活動的時候全部都是限制型的標案"},{"start":318.191,"end":331.544,"text":"全部都是限制型的標案所以請署長看一下在這場活動的廠商我大概稍微整理了一下過去這4年限制型的標案觀光公署的部分拿到5700萬"},{"start":333.803,"end":349.335,"text":"達到五千七百萬成效如何因為剛剛您說嘛每個活動辦完以後你們都會有成效評估嘛一樣拜託你一個禮拜之內把過去辦的這些活動的成效評估都送到我辦公室這樣可以嗎"},{"start":355.298,"end":373.648,"text":"最後時間的關係最後一個雖然後面沒其他委員不要耽誤太多時間我想要請教部長一個問題就是說因為我覺得政治人物當地方爭取經費這真的是天經地義但我真的第一次看到一個公共工程委員會的主委"},{"start":374.588,"end":398.63,"text":"在他的臉書上面自我宣傳說他幫宜蘭爭取預算宜蘭鐵路高架化地方配合款因為曾經得的努力所以本來105億現在下降到57.23億然後用地的取得跟基地的費用改由中央全額負擔當我看到一個政務官"},{"start":399.671,"end":400.392,"text":"所以有一個清楚的標準嗎?"},{"start":427.475,"end":447.774,"text":"原則上有一個清楚的標準不過也要看每一個地方的狀況不太一樣沒有關係我不要耽誤其他委員的時間第一個我需要知道您剛剛所講的原則是什麼第二個你一直強調原則代表例外嘛那例外的情況是什麼我要說的只有一件事"},{"start":451.28,"end":472.269,"text":"在執政的時候在施政的時候就不要大小眼用一樣的標準我們地方建設不分藍綠嘛不會因為黨派而有所不同嘛宜蘭縣現在是國民黨在執政是我了解所以我才說中央不管如何用一樣的標準去做要不然看到一個政務官幫他"},{"start":473.499,"end":481.876,"text":"就特定的縣市爭取預算自己在臉書上面自我宣傳這真的還是讓人覺得非常的驚奇啊可以嗎好 謝謝"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"15:34:35 - 15:42:37","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1524,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（15時34分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請陳部長跟觀光署署長。"],["主席：請陳部長、周署長。"],["黃委員國昌：兩位好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["周署長永暉：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：先請教一下署長，觀光署升格週年你們花了269萬辦了一個觀光之夜in福隆。"],["周署長永暉：是。"],["黃委員國昌：這場活動你有參加嗎？"],["周署長永暉：就是在10月份，有。"],["黃委員國昌：有嘛？"],["周署長永暉：正好他們也四十週年。"],["黃委員國昌：是，效益如何？"],["周署長永暉：那天還滿溫馨的，尤其是颱風之後，大家也……"],["黃委員國昌：我相信溫馨是很溫馨啊，花了269萬，效益如何？"],["周署長永暉：我們的效益大概都分兩個部分，那個部分我們是跟當地的觀光圈做一些結合，實際的費用我們同仁是按照採購法的方式來做處理。"],["黃委員國昌：是啦，我沒有質疑你不是用採購法，這個決標金額269萬我已經幫你整理出來了嘛，269萬丟下去，效益如何？還是我們的觀光署很有錢，辦活動不用評估效益的？"],["周署長永暉：委員，這一點可能誤會了，我們辦任何的活動其實都還是有做效益評估。"],["黃委員國昌：所以我才問你效益如何？"],["周署長永暉：對，效益評估的話……"],["黃委員國昌：我問了第三次，我到現在還沒有聽到答案。"],["周署長永暉：通常我們都是在年度的時候做評估。"],["黃委員國昌：什麼時候？"],["周署長永暉：這場我去了，對，我們在年……"],["黃委員國昌：什麼時候評估報告會出來？"],["周署長永暉：時間上，我們結案大概都有兩個月的時間。"],["黃委員國昌：兩個月的時間，很期待看這個結案報告。我為什麼這樣講？這個是那天的照片，當你們發邀請函給我的時候，我不太喜歡搞那種官樣文章，去坐在那邊、講個話，好像很關心，我非常不喜歡做這種事情。"],["周署長永暉：沒有講話啦。"],["黃委員國昌：但我覺得錢花下去要有效果嘛，結果你們辦在一個飯店裡，外面真的被這個活動吸引來的人寥寥可數！我相信辦活動的很嗨、長官也很嗨，但我看完了以後，我真的不知道這樣子的活動，錢是不是有花在刀口上？是不是符合你們一開始規劃這個活動的效益？我真的看不懂，所以我才請教你，觀光署是不是預算太多？錢這樣花的喔？"],["周署長永暉：本來是在戶外，因為是颱風之後，沙灘那邊還有非常多的漂流木，也為了安全所以就移到室內，這時候的選擇有兩個，也跟委員報告一下，一個就是停辦、一個就是改成室內，人數的部分確實沒有當初的預期。"],["黃委員國昌：我看照片就知道了，你人也在現場。"],["周署長永暉：實際的部分我們再統計一下。"],["黃委員國昌：有，是很嗨、官員很嗨，結果去的民眾根本沒多少，花了269萬，我期待看到你們的成果效益評估，我算一算，平均花在一個人身上大概一萬多塊、兩萬塊，我看完了以後發現我們交通部很有錢、觀光署很有錢，錢這樣花的。","第二個問題，再麻煩署長回去以後用書面告訴我，這個經費編在哪一個預算科目項下？"],["周署長永暉：好，這沒問題。"],["黃委員國昌：可以嘛，因為我回來了以後開始檢討這個活動編在哪一個預算科目項下，我把今年的預算書，不是今年要審明年的，是去年已經審完今年的預算書，我從頭到尾翻，我看不到到底編在哪裡。那這個資訊對我們來講很重要，因為這個預算到底編在哪裡？這個會期要審預算，這個會期既然要審預算就要負責任地審，秉持著我們卓榮泰院長所講的，公帑不可以隨便浪費的精神，但我們如果要負責任地做到這件事情，那我第一件事情就要知道到底編在哪裡？這樣子我們在審預算的時候才有一個依據。","第二個事情，可能你們在提出評估報告的時候順便稍微說明一下，因為連卓榮泰院長自己都說，標案集中在特定的廠商不是一件健康的事情，特別是你們在辦這些活動的時候全部都是限制型的標案，所以請署長看一下，這場活動的廠商我大概稍微整理了一下，過去這四年限制型的標案光觀光署的部分拿到5,700萬，成效如何，因為剛剛您說每一個活動辦完以後你們都會有成效評估，一樣，拜託你一個禮拜之內，把過去辦的這些活動的成效評估送到我辦公室，這樣可以嗎？"],["周署長永暉：沒問題。"],["黃委員國昌：可以嗎？好，謝謝你，不好意思。最後因為時間的關係，我是最後一個，雖然後面也沒其他委員，但也不要耽誤太多時間，我想要請教部長一個問題，我覺得政治人物幫地方爭取經費，這真的是天經地義，但我真的第一次看到一個公共工程委員會的主委，在他臉書上面自我宣傳，說他幫宜蘭爭取預算，宜蘭鐵路高架化地方配合款，因為陳金德的努力，所以本來105億，現在下降到57.23億，然後用地的取得跟基地的費用改由中央全額負擔，當我看到一個政務官幫一個特定……我相信陳金德主委從宜蘭土生土長，有深厚的感情，這我都可以接受，但我只有一個基本的問題，我們中央跟地方在這種鐵路高架化的預算分配上面的分配原則，應該全國一致吧？"],["陳部長世凱：我們會有一套原則，並且去評估地方財務的狀況，來做整體的討論。"],["黃委員國昌：所以有一個清楚的標準嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：原則上有一個清楚的標準，不過也要看每一個地方的狀況不太一樣。"],["黃委員國昌：那沒有關係，我不要耽誤其他……"],["陳部長世凱：我們都會做專案的協調。"],["黃委員國昌：我不要耽誤其他委員的時間，第一個，我需要知道您剛剛所講的原則是什麼，第二個，你一直強調原則代表有例外嘛？那例外的情況是什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：我們會進行專案協商，協商的部分……"],["黃委員國昌：我要說的只有一件事，在執政的時候、在施政的時候就不要大小眼，用一樣的標準，我們地方建設不分藍綠嘛？不會因為黨派而有所不同嘛？"],["陳部長世凱：宜蘭縣現在是國民黨在執政。"],["黃委員國昌：是，我了解，所以我才說中央不管如何，要用一樣的標準去做，要不然看到一個政務官就特定的縣市爭取預算，自己在臉書上面自我宣傳，這真的還是讓人覺得非常地驚奇，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。","接下來邀請林岱樺委員，林岱樺委員、林岱樺委員，林岱樺委員不在現場。","接下來邀請高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員不在現場。","接下來邀請林宜瑾委員，林宜瑾委員、林宜瑾委員，林宜瑾委員不在現場。","接下來邀請張嘉郡委員，張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員，張嘉郡委員不在現場。","接下來邀請蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在現場。","接下來邀請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在現場。","接下來邀請林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員不在現場。","接下來邀請鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員不在現場。","接下來邀請徐欣瑩委員，徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員，徐欣瑩委員不在現場。","接下來邀請邱志偉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":106,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-6","speakers":["陳素月","李昆澤","林沛祥","林國成","許智傑","林俊憲","魯明哲","廖先翔","黃健豪","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","林德福","黃建賓","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","何欣純","葉元之","廖偉翔","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","洪孟楷","李柏毅","陳瑩","黃國昌","邱志偉","游顥","麥玉珍","林宜瑾","劉建國","王鴻薇","傅崐萁"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138501_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}