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這個部長"},{"start":93.738,"end":97.395,"text":"糧食自給率已經創下新低,您同意吧?"},{"start":99.36,"end":126.478,"text":"吃稻米的這個量也是歷史上的新低吃蔬菜的量也是歷史上的新低反而現在大家吃了很多的肉類對不對所以台灣的稻米產量過剩這個是不爭的事實我們的吃米的量其實是非常少再加上種植公糧所以你每年會產生大量的純糧"},{"start":128.719,"end":145.687,"text":"每一年大概20萬公噸基本最少那好玩的來囉全球都在缺米結果台灣的稻米產量是過剩日本大缺米日本在鬧白米荒他的庫存量是17年來最低"},{"start":146.969,"end":162.64,"text":"市長,你們有沒有想過啊我們現在一直講說我們的水果可以外銷日本外銷到其他的國家去如果台灣的糧食問題台灣的米糧的存貨是多的話有沒有可能我們來鼓勵農民"},{"start":165.582,"end":179.459,"text":"種植優質米然後鼓勵他們外銷到其他的世界各國去那我看到你們的預算裡頭其實有所謂的外銷的價格補助嘛對不對如果這個誘因再給他提高"},{"start":180.48,"end":201.307,"text":"讓更多人願意去種植優質米,讓更多人願意把這樣的好的台灣米銷到世界各國去,甚至當比較久的這些所謂的公糧米,你如果能夠送到開發中的國家去,或者是有一些需要物資救援的國家去,你其實可以做好事。不用說30塊20幾塊買來的公糧,把它拍做吃了,10塊又賣不出去。"},{"start":206.363,"end":225.532,"text":"部長您同意我的建議嗎?我想謝謝委員的提醒跟指正我想分兩個部分公糧的部分我們盡可能的不要讓它變成飼料米所以我們會針對一些原住的或是其他的部分第二個部分就是您剛才講的很重要的一點就是稻米其實也是可以外銷的"},{"start":226.392,"end":236.316,"text":"但是外銷一定要有比較好的一個品牌跟品質這是非常重要的所以我才一直強調我們的優質米比如說我們的美濃147米時尚米等等台灣優質的米我們的這個農改所裡頭大家這個專家研發出來好的這些稻米我覺得就趁這個機會把它推銷出去嘛我們不用一直在這裡講說哎呀公糧收購公糧的價格要提高多少其實我們是應該鼓勵優質的"},{"start":258.468,"end":273.924,"text":"我非常同意我們的政策目標也是讓農民從量的重視變成質的重視這樣的話後續的品牌米跟優質的米才能夠有機會不只是供應給國內的也可以外交到其他的國家"},{"start":274.545,"end":300.823,"text":"所以如果公糧的收購價格不提高我覺得你從另外一個方式去下手讓更多的農民受惠我覺得農業部要一直不斷的去讓大家知道現在一直在講公糧的收購價格提高公糧的收購價格提高5塊錢你受益的人數大概了不起12萬是占全體農民49萬50萬裡頭只有占大概"},{"start":304.985,"end":321.155,"text":"5分之1只有12萬人受益但是你的預算增加要增加91億到116億這個是看你的種植面積你必須增加這麼多的預算那你現在推的所謂的一級二轉3加3"},{"start":322.156,"end":333.787,"text":"你可以受惠到22.5萬的稻農我講只有稻農喔受惠稻農但是你只要花16.5億就可以讓22萬的稻農都受到幫助"},{"start":338.107,"end":363.109,"text":"我不知道這個計算為什麼大家會聽不懂然後剛剛有很多的委員或者是說等一下可能國民黨的委員還會再上來問你我想要請教雲林嘉義種植的雜糧雜糧的價格幾年沒調整了雜糧的農民要不要照顧他們不敢提這一塊台中彰化的花卉花農要不要照顧不敢提這一塊"},{"start":364.21,"end":374.322,"text":"你只把全部的錢都放在公糧收購5塊錢但是得到好處是誰?糧商、代更業者、肥料業者農民真的有收到好處嗎?沒有啊!你的公糧收購價格多5塊錢"},{"start":383.905,"end":410.647,"text":"待耕業者的待耕成本就會增加工錢就會增加嘛肥料就會增加嘛你所有的人工成本都會增加嘛但是你實際的農民你有沒有拿到多身家的錢沒有耶所以我覺得這個觀念的轉變齁其實是很重要的我們如何讓最小的預算花下去能夠照顧最多的農民這個才是政府應該要做的事情不是嗎你要花116億結果只有照顧12萬人"},{"start":412.748,"end":430.395,"text":"這12萬人還不見得是他們真的拿到錢你花了16.5億你可以照顧到22.5萬的人然後你還可以增加台灣的糧食自給率你還可以讓台灣的優質稻米輸出你還可以增加台灣的好民生甚至創造台灣的外匯"},{"start":432.628,"end":453.522,"text":"所以我不太懂得他們是怎麼計算啊所以我是公開反對公糧收購價格還要再增加5塊那我也公開反對要利用這樣子去綁架政府的總預算甚至綁架所有的農業預算如果口口聲聲說照顧農民的話你更不應該綁架這個預算"},{"start":455.063,"end":475.401,"text":"好部長這一題我跟您討論到這邊接下來我要跟您討論到國土計劃法上次我們討論到這個農業部要推所謂的堆疊式的給付政策你們原來講說9月的時候就要公布這個堆疊式的給付內容可是到現在10月了還沒有看到是不是在中間有遇到什麼問題可不可以請部長說明一下"},{"start":476.089,"end":499.362,"text":"我跟委員報告,事實上我們在對賊是己夫的部分在內部已經規劃好了那規劃好我們會預計會在這個月就開始會對外的去做一些座談跟溝通我們不希望說我們設計完了以後就去做說明我們希望說在溝通的過程中有哪一些先到地方上去做說明先到地方上去做說明然後聽取一些意見再做調整"},{"start":500.603,"end":523.55,"text":"我們已經有了初步的一個規劃了所以我們近期就會啟動這樣的一個方式那你的這個所謂的堆疊式補助他應該不會是跟國土計畫法綁在一起的吧對他應該是假如說你的整體規劃完成他是可行的是不是應該會是在國土計畫法上路之前就開始對於農地有做這樣子的堆疊式的補助"},{"start":525.471,"end":542.603,"text":"我們對農業政策的實施它不會跟國土計畫綁在一起不管國土計畫如期或延後都不會影響到我們我們只要這樣的一個方式得到大家的認可我們就會去推動好 謝謝部長因為我時間已經到了我本來還有一題農業保險的有私下我再跟您請教"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":160,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時46分）謝謝主席。我是不是請一下陳部長？"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長好。部長，我想今天召委再度排定讓您來報告有關公糧收購價格提高這件事情，我記得上個會期結束前，在立法院表決的時候，我是代表民進黨黨團上來發言，原則上我是反對公糧收購價格提高，現在的公糧，我想請教一下部長，今年的公糧種植面積是多少？跟去年相比起來是增加還是減少？"],["陳部長駿季：大概24萬公頃左右，一、二期作加起來。比去年多了差不多一萬多公頃。"],["邱委員議瑩：又多了一萬公頃？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，很顯然的，我這樣說啦，你推「1集、2轉、3加3」，看起來並沒有達到對農民的吸引力嘛！他還是選擇去種植公糧，這是比較快速能夠增加產量、增加收入的方式，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：我們「1集、2轉、3加3」是明年一期作開始推動。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。部長，糧食自給率已經創下新低，您同意吧？吃稻米的這個量，也是歷史上的新低；吃蔬菜的量，也是歷史上的新低，反而現在大家吃了很多的肉類，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以臺灣的稻米產量過剩，這是不爭的事實，我們吃米的量其實是非常少嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：再加上種植公糧，所以你每年會產生大量的存糧，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：大概每一年基本、最少是20萬公噸。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，那麼好玩的來囉！全球都在缺米，結果臺灣的稻米產量是過剩，日本大缺米、日本在鬧白米荒，他的庫存量是17年來最低。部長，你們有沒有想過，我們現在一直講我們的水果可以外銷日本、外銷到其他的國家，如果臺灣的糧食問題，臺灣米糧的存貨是多的話，有沒有可能我們來鼓勵農民種植優質米、鼓勵他們外銷到其他的世界各國？我看到你們的預算裡頭，其實有所謂外銷的價格補助，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：如果這個誘因再給它提高，讓更多人願意去種植優質米、讓更多人願意把這樣好的臺灣米銷到世界各國去，甚至放比較久的這些所謂公糧米，你如果能夠送到開發中的國家，或者是有一些需要物資救援的國家，你其實可以做好事，不用讓30塊、二十幾塊買來的公糧，把它打做飼料，10塊還賣不出去。部長，您同意我的建議方向嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒跟指正，我想分兩個部分，公糧的部分，我們盡可能不要讓它變成飼料米，所以我們會針對一些援助的或是其他的部分。第二個部分就是您剛才講到很重要的一點，就是稻米其實也是可以外銷的。"],["邱委員議瑩：是啊！"],["陳部長駿季：但是外銷一定要有比較好的品牌跟品質，這是非常重要的。"],["邱委員議瑩：沒錯！所以我才一直強調我們的優質米，比如我們的美濃147米、池上米等等臺灣優質的米，我們農改所裡頭專家研發出來好的這些稻米，我覺得就趁這個機會把它推銷出去，我們不用一直在這裡講：哎呀！公糧收購的價格要提高多少。其實我們是應該鼓勵優質的農產種植，包括促銷，您同意我的看法嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我非常同意，我們的政策目標也是讓農民從量的重視變成質的重視，這樣的話，後續的品牌米跟優質的米才能夠有機會……"],["邱委員議瑩：是。"],["陳部長駿季：不只是供應給國內，也可以外銷到其他的國家。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，所以如果公糧的收購價格不提高，我覺得你從另外一個方式去下手，讓更多的農民受惠，我覺得農業部要一直不斷地去讓大家知道。現在一直在講公糧的收購價格提高，公糧的收購價格提高5塊錢，你受益的人數大概了不起是12萬。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：在全體49萬、50萬個農民裡頭，只占了大概五分之一。"],["陳部長駿季：大概五分之一。"],["邱委員議瑩：只有12萬人受益。但是你的預算要增加91億到116億，這個是看你的種植面積，你必須要增加這麼多的預算，你現在推所謂的「1集、2轉、3加3」……"],["陳部長駿季：16.5億。"],["邱委員議瑩：你可以讓22.5萬個稻農受惠，我講的受惠只有「稻農」，但是你只要花16.5億就可以22萬個稻農都受到幫助。我不知道這個計算為什麼大家會聽不懂？然後剛剛有很多委員，或者等一下可能會有國民黨的委員還會再上來問你，我想要請教，雲林、嘉義種植的雜糧，其價格幾年沒調整了？雜糧的農民要不要照顧？他們不敢提這一塊；臺中、彰化的花卉，花農要不要照顧？不敢提這一塊。你只把全部的錢都放在公糧收購5塊錢上，但是得到好處的是誰？是糧商、代耕業者、肥料業者，農民真的有收到好處嗎？沒有啊！你的公糧收購價格多5塊錢，代耕業者的代耕成本就會增加，工錢就會增加嘛！肥料就會增加嘛！你所有的人工成本都會增加嘛！但是實際上農民有沒有拿到多增加的錢？沒有耶！所以我覺得這個觀念的轉變其實是很重要的，我們要如何將最小的預算花下去，能夠照顧最多的農民？這個才是政府應該要做的事情，不是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：你要花116億，結果只有照顧12萬人，這12萬人還不見得真的有拿到錢。你花了16.5億可以照顧到22.5萬個人，然後你還可以增加臺灣的糧食自給率，你還可以讓臺灣的優質稻米輸出，還可以增加臺灣的好名聲，甚至是創造臺灣的外匯，何樂而不為？所以我是不太懂他們是怎麼計算的，我是公開反對公糧收購價格還要再增加5塊，我也公開反對要利用這樣子去綁架政府的總預算，甚至是綁架所有的農業預算。如果口口聲聲說要照顧農民的話，你更不應該綁架這個預算。部長，這一題我跟你討論到這邊。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：接下來我要跟你討論國土計畫法，上次我們討論到農業部要推所謂堆疊式的給付政策，你們原來講9月的時候就要公布這個堆疊式的給付內容，可是到現在10月了還沒有看到，是不是中間有遇到什麼問題，可不可以請部長說明一下？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，事實上堆疊式給付的部分，在內部已經規劃好了，我們預計會在這個月就開始對外進行座談跟溝通，我們不希望設計完以後就去做說明，我們希望在溝通的過程中，有哪一些……"],["邱委員議瑩：先到地方上去做說明，跟農民溝通協調嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，做說明，聽取一些意見再做調整，所以我們已經有了初步的規劃，近期就會啟動這樣的一個方式。"],["邱委員議瑩：你這個所謂的堆疊式補助應該不會跟國土計畫法綁在一起吧？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：假如你整體規劃完成，它是可行的，是不是應該會是在國土計畫法上路之前就開始對農地做堆疊式的補助？"],["陳部長駿季：我們堆疊式給付對農業政策的實施，不會跟國土計畫綁在一起，不管國土計畫如期或延後，都不會影響到我們，只要這樣的一個方式得到大家的認可，我們就會去推動。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，謝謝，謝謝部長，因為我的時間已經到了，本來我還有一題有關農業保險的，我私下再跟您請教，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-6","speakers":["呂玉玲","張嘉郡","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","洪申翰","陳超明","鄭天財Sra 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