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英文都沒聽到"},{"start":544.913,"end":545.053,"text":"委員會提醒"},{"start":561.53,"end":561.69,"text":"陳亭妃"},{"start":578.491,"end":578.891,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":629,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（11時9分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我看你早上解釋很多，但是我要語重心長地問你一句話，為什麼農民的感受不到？我們已經花了那麼多的資源，包括我們從所謂的轉作，然後在一些相關的農業環境，基本的給付，然後轉作的獎勵，農業保險，甚至是我們一些相關的保價收購的部分，我們做了很多，但是農民為什麼感受不到？還是認為你就是要提高公糧收購價格，然後讓有些人一直喊這樣的口號，喊得好像沒有加的人就是因為不照顧農民。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，我們不管在政策推出來之前或之後，大概從上個月開始已經開了二十幾場說明會，大部分的農民是支持我們這樣的作法，但是還是……"],["陳委員亭妃：可是聲音沒有出來啊！你說農民支持你這個說法，這聲音很小。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我知道。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是我相信如果你用民調的話，這些所謂支持要提高公糧收購價格的人聲音會比較大，為什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上用政府的經費去支持農民的直接收益的話，我想每個人都會拍拍手，但是只有少部分而已，如果今天是用全民調，就是包括其他產業的部分，以我們對產業的瞭解、認知……"],["陳委員亭妃：你所謂的少部分是多少人？真正有在交公糧的，不論是全部交公糧或是部分交公糧。"],["陳部長駿季：大概有12萬人，稻農大概有22.5萬人，那12萬人是跟公糧有來往的部分，其中2.2萬人是純粹繳公糧。我們目前主力從事農業的人大概是48.6萬到48.9萬之間，其他產業包括我們瞭解的雜糧產業，他們就覺得如果只照顧稻農，他們覺得很不服氣，因為他們也是很努力的為這片土地付出，去生產一些糧食安全所要的東西，但是他就沒有這個機制讓委員可以提高他們的保價收購模式。所以以農業部來講，我們看的是整體產業繼續往前走，因此我們提出了「1集、2轉、3加3」的政策，也是希望能夠兼顧到雜糧產業的發展。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以，部長，我剛剛講的一個關鍵是，今天我們做了這麼多，可是為什麼農民的感受度沒有那麼深？就像你講的，今天如果增加收購價，大家會拍拍手，拍拍手的可能是12.2萬人左右，可是其他可能有三十幾萬的人還是沒有辦法被提高，包括像雜糧也已經七、八年沒有調整了，就像我講的，其實我們也應該有一個調整機制，滾動式檢討的機制。"],["陳部長駿季：所以我同意也認同委員所說的，就是說我們對於現在……"],["陳委員亭妃：花卉也是，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們應該提出滾動式檢討，我們不一定一次要拉到多高，可是我們應該對於所有產業面要滾動式檢討，就像我之前在農損的部分要求部長滾動式檢討一樣，在整個全面的收購價格，各種農作物的品項是不是也都應該去做滾動式檢討？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們要看品項，有的品項純粹是市場機制的就是市場機制；有些品項是政府有參與一些配套的部分，不只是稻作，其他品項我們也會來做滾動的檢討，持續檢討才能夠有效的發現問題及解決問題。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以，部長，我們應該跟農民說，在公糧收購的部分，我們會隨時滾動式檢討，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：就是隨著現在市面上的狀況跟所有生產的量隨時做滾動式檢討，而且不只是稻米，我們是針對所有農民各品項，都是一樣。如果可以針對各品項有一個機制叫滾動式檢討，那麼大家會比較心安，稻作也是，公糧也是，也就是這一次會被提出來是因為很久沒調整了，大家覺得很久沒調整了，我們不要說一下子訂到5塊錢，我們訂的是隨時每年滾動式檢討，這樣不行嗎？可以吧！"],["陳部長駿季：可以，謝謝委員的建議，這個我們會去落實、去真正建立一個滾動檢討的機制，然後看看外部的指標，我們要參考什麼樣的指標來做一個比較合理的施政措施的作為。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為我們明明做很多，對於農業的保護、對於農業的支持、對於農民的照顧，我們民進黨做得太多，而且比起過去的標準是多很多，光農損，包括植栽，包括農健保，這些過去基本上都要靠農民自己本身，但是我們現在用法制去協助他們。所以在這樣的前提之下，我們要讓更多人知道，不能因為一個公糧議題，好像把民進黨打成都沒有在關心農民，我覺得這樣子好辛苦。所以表示我們對外所講的，講得不清不楚，我們立場沒有講清楚，如果我們今天說的，我們已經做了這麼多投入作業的相關經費，好，也願意對於整個公糧的收購每年去做滾動式檢討，而且不只是稻作這個品項，而是所有相關農業支持的品項，只要它不是處於市場機制的狀態，我們就應該每年做滾動式檢討。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員，這個部分我們絕對可以認同，也可以接受，所以後續我們會建立一個機制，就是針對一些政府有在投入的這些品項，我們做一個有效的滾動機制，這個機制會看其他政策的落實程度去做滾動的調整。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為現在物價確實飆漲得比較快，而且它會因為國內情勢跟國際情勢，所以我們就要有這個擔當跟農民說：會，我們會依照各方的局勢做滾動式檢討，而且在整個保價收購的價格當中，我們會多面性而且綜觀性來保障農民收入。我覺得我們要有這樣的定調，農民才會安心。"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解。"],["陳委員亭妃：否則只要一句話說：很久沒調了。一句話就把我們全部前面所做的都打翻了，這對於公務人員也不公平，對於執政的政府也不公平，可是農民也沒有錯，他需要的是一個穩定收入。所以我們更應該接近他們，瞭解他們的想法，穩定收入就是希望有政府來隨時關心他們，而不是卡在那邊永遠不會動，是不是這個樣子？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員提醒。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以部長再麻煩，我相信我們都來自基層，我們壓力都很大，走到基層的時候，大家罵我們說，委員，公糧的收購價已經很久沒調了！大家也是這樣跟我們說，就是說我們更應該站在執政黨立場提出更有效的、更有用的、更直接的，不是說一次要調高多少，而是我們每年滾動式檢討，負責任的，該調高就調高，有什麼問題？可是我們是負責任的，不是漫天喊價，而是我今天針對目前的國內局勢跟國際局勢，依照目前的狀態隨時調整，這樣一喊出來，我相信農民會安心，這個再拜託部長。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["陳委員亭妃：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：請洪申翰委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-6","speakers":["呂玉玲","張嘉郡","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","洪申翰","陳超明","鄭天財Sra 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