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署長好 公糧收購調過頭會遭致弊端 百億的預算照顧農民應該農損優先 我們來看一下部長 跟你介紹兩個新聞 官商勾結倒賣公糧 為豬的飼料米流入營養午餐這是在2009年發生的 還有用劣質米換公糧 農會侵占遷入公糧 為什麼我們的公糧買一買怎麼變成飼料米呢"},{"start":48.854,"end":71.213,"text":"有沒有覺得有點奇怪公糧真的會變成飼料米阿是不是如果量過多的時候他保存期限以後就變成飼料米公糧有時候會超過民糧的價格對不對結果呢在2013年發生我們屏東他低價買入市面的價格買入道股找人頭混充公糧出售後來被判刑啦好就是套利"},{"start":72.355,"end":81.643,"text":"為什麼?因為我們公糧過剩會轉為飼料米,你說的嘛對不對?那因為什麼原因會造成公糧過剩?收購價格嘛,是不是這樣?"},{"start":82.697,"end":111.975,"text":"所以收購價格會造成兩個問題一個是供過於求必須打入飼料米造成有弊端發生第二個公糧收購價格太高會讓有些人怎麼樣去套利是不是這樣子好我們來看一下前一張馬英九時期呢他調高公糧價格之後民糧的價格下跌了公糧高民糧價格低是不是會套利有可能嘛好往下看所以呢目前馬英九時期他調高了3元面積增加了多少"},{"start":112.878,"end":134.205,"text":"大約3萬公頃3萬多公頃那如果我們現在調高到8塊錢有可能會增加到28萬公頃預算需要146億是不是這樣是是沒錯嗎好往下看好那我請問一下國內的農民單一作物最大面積的是什麼是不是稻米稻米是單一作物最大農民是不是都種稻當然不是嘛對那稻農占全體農民比例多少"},{"start":135.66,"end":164.091,"text":"道農現在是22萬有那麼多大概五分之一五分之一好那這五分之一的道農當中可以繳公糧的有多少大概一半沒有一半啦我算一算可以繳的不到35%啦喔你們要全部的是不是對全部要大概三成左右三成五嘛對不對所以說我們對農民的照顧花那麼多的預算投入在公糧收購調過頭了會有弊端發生好往下看"},{"start":164.707,"end":180.087,"text":"那我們來看一下那可以繳公糧的農民資格有很多嗎我們看一下這麼多這麼多這麼多是不是這樣在我屏東的農民有種稻的多數不能繳公糧那他們期待什麼政府照顧他們期待政府對他們建做的銅豆"},{"start":180.828,"end":197.41,"text":"甚至有些是種香蕉的要補助要支持農業部有沒有照顧這些不是繳公糧的農民不管他是不是盜農有沒有要支持我們還是用另外的方式去支持我們所有產業的農民這是我們的責任所以這次山河颱風農損將近4億"},{"start":199.472,"end":201.373,"text":"我跟委員報告其實昨天我們也在開會還沒有定論就是針對"},{"start":220.057,"end":221.598,"text":"如果是147億我們來看看農業部147億可以怎麼用農天水利變50億"},{"start":246.681,"end":251.747,"text":"我看每一項他的優先順位都不亞於去支持一個有限的可以繳公糧的稻農的稻谷收購你同不同意"},{"start":264.816,"end":284.721,"text":"我想我們也是這樣的一個想法去支持所有的農民是的所以我覺得萬事莫如舊災疾這是農作天然災保險覆蓋率低嘛所以我希望我希望你們接下來的施政重點我當然知道每個委員有各自的重點但是我這樣講完很清楚我們政府照顧農民對不對"},{"start":286.361,"end":311.702,"text":"這是我們的責任是 農民不是只有稻農對不對是 稻農不是全部都可以繳公糧而且繳公糧那是少數對不對對所以我們這麼多147的資源是把優先來照顧這些需要幫助的農民同意同意好往下看所以結合是我們農業災害的天然保險的扣抵強制險之外到113年的7月覆蓋率只有17%怎麼樣提高怎麼改善"},{"start":313.744,"end":326.204,"text":"我想整個農業的保險扣掉強制性流量的時期左右那一個非常重要的就是它產量的一個基準的依據所以我已經要求我們的農金屬做全面的一個檢討"},{"start":328.052,"end":356.839,"text":"我不要說隨便開一個保單然後保護只有一兩個而已所以我希望說他真正的能夠降低農民的經營的風險我們以這個目標很好所以請研議最後的結論請研議提升不含強制性的農作物天然災害保險提升他的整理覆蓋的方案一個月提書面報告可以嗎可以我們可以提出來那請這個書面報告請你們的農金署的署長跟你們新任的農業金庫的董事長和董經理我們找個時間一起談一談來找我可以嗎可以可以謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":835,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時3分）主席，在場委員先進、列席的政府機關長官、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請農業部陳部長和農糧署姚署長。"],["主席：請陳部長和署長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好，署長好。公糧收購調過頭會招致弊端，百億預算照顧農民，應該農損優先。部長，向你介紹兩個新聞，就是官商勾結盜賣公糧，餵豬的飼料米流入營養午餐，這是2009年發生的；還有用劣質米換公糧，農會侵占千噸公糧。為什麼？我們的公糧買來之後，怎麼會變成飼料米呢？有沒有覺得有點奇怪？公糧真的會變成飼料米啊！是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：如果數量過多，保存期限過了以後就會變成飼料米。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對啊！大部分都會變成飼料米。公糧有時候會超過民糧的價格，對不對？2013年發生在屏東，他低價以市面價格買入稻穀，找人頭混充公糧出售，後來被判刑啦！這就是套利。為什麼？因為我們公糧過剩會轉為飼料米，這是你說的嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：什麼原因會造成公糧過剩？因為收購價格的關係，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以收購價格會造成兩個問題，一個是供過於求，所以必須打入飼料米，造成有弊端發生。第二個，公糧收購價格太高會讓有些人去套利，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們來看一下，馬英九時期調高公糧價格之後民糧的價格下跌了，公糧高、民糧價格低，是不是會套利？有可能嘛！馬英九時期調高3元，面積增加多少？"],["陳部長駿季：大概3萬公頃。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果我們現在調高8元，有可能會增加到28萬公頃，需要146億元預算，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒錯嘛！請問一下，國內農民種植單一作物最大面積，是什麼？是不是稻米？"],["陳部長駿季：稻米是單一作物最大面積。"],["鍾委員佳濱：農民是不是都種稻？當然不是嘛！稻農占全體農民多少比例？"],["陳部長駿季：稻農現在是22萬人，大概五分之一。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有那麼多？好，這五分之一的稻農當中，可以繳公糧的有多少？"],["陳部長駿季：大概一半。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有一半啦！本席算一算，可以繳的不到35%啦！"],["陳部長駿季：你是說全部，是不是？"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。"],["陳部長駿季：對，全部大概是三成左右。"],["鍾委員佳濱：三成五嘛！對不對？所以我們為了照顧農民，花那麼多預算投入公糧收購，價格調過頭就會有弊端發生。可以繳公糧的農民很多嗎？我們看一下，有這麼多，是不是這樣？在我們屏東，種稻的農民多數不能繳公糧，所以他們期待政府怎麼照顧？他們期待政府對他們間作的紅豆，甚至有些是種香蕉，希望政府能夠補助、支持。農業部有沒有照顧這些不是繳公糧的農民？不管他是不是稻農，有沒有支持？"],["陳部長駿季：我們是用另外的方式去支持所有產業的農民，這是我們的責任。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的。這次山陀兒颱風的農損將近4億元，屏東占了六成，是最傷的，其中最嚴重的就是香蕉。上次本席還問你，因為凱米颱風受損申請救助，這次可以再申請嗎？你說你們要考慮調整一下，包括多年期、長年期的作物，你們也要考慮。有沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：修訂的怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：其實昨天我們也在開會，但是還沒有定論。就是針對跨年的、多年期的作物，現在是採曆年制，我們未來會考慮以產期為制度，然後再加一些但書，如果跨年遇到一些特殊情況可以再給予救助，這個部分我們還會再做進一步的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對啦！像冬蕉和夏蕉就不同了。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果是147億元，我們來看看農業部這147億元可以怎麼運用。農田水利編列50億元，治山防災編列45億元，冷鏈物流明年要再加16億元，防範非洲豬瘟5億，還有撥補農發基金29億元，以及農業用電差價補貼24億元。本席看了，每一項的優先順位都不亞於支持有限的、可以繳公糧的稻穀收購啦！你同不同意？"],["陳部長駿季：我們也是以這樣的想法去支持所有農民。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，是的。本席覺得萬事莫如救災急，因為農作天然災害保險覆蓋率偏低嘛！所以本席希望你們接下來的施政重點在這個部分，本席當然知道每個委員有各自的重點，但是本席這樣說完之後，事情就很清楚了，政府要照顧農民，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：這是我們的責任。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但農民不是只有稻農，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：稻農不是全部都可以繳公糧，而且繳公糧的是少數，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以這147億元的資源，是不是應該優先照顧這些需要幫助的農民？"],["陳部長駿季：同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以結論，農業災害的天然保險扣抵，除了強制險之外，到113年7月覆蓋率只有17%，怎麼提高？怎麼改善？"],["陳部長駿季：整個農業的保險，扣掉強制性的部分大概是17%左右，其中有一個非常重要的因素，就是以它的產量基準為依據，所以我已經要求農金署全面檢討，不要隨便開設一個保單，保戶只有一、兩個而已，我希望它能真正降低農民的經營風險，我們是以這個為目標。"],["鍾委員佳濱：農金署嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。所以最後的結論，請研議不含強制性的農作物天然災害保險方案，提升整體覆蓋率，一個月內提書面報告，可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：可以，我們可以提出來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：關於這份書面報告，農金署署長、新任的農業金庫董事長和總經理，我們找個時間一起談一談，請你們來找我，可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。"],["主席：請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-6","speakers":["呂玉玲","張嘉郡","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","洪申翰","陳超明","鄭天財Sra 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