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zone,就是禁航區那所有的區域來講它是保持開放的,它盡可能把對國機的影響到最小但是未來有可能它會影響到我的燃油的運輸或者是外資的進入,這是它未來的企圖"},{"start":200.786,"end":220.504,"text":"未來的企圖如何就是你們要好好研究這也是本席告訴你的雖然中友說他們也是如期的也卸下來但是媒體所報導是如此如果你認為他沒有掉頭那你應該要給社會大眾說明清楚不要造成人民的一個恐慌所以針對第一個議題我們必須嚴肅的看待"},{"start":224.628,"end":252.504,"text":"尤其在我們整個能源的方面,靠著船運,這一個港口我們要怎麼因應,你們也一定要有一套的一個協助,這個因應,這才是人民能夠安心的。那接下來本席要請問,你說認為這個是嚴肅的,所以最近你們有發文給我們縣市政府,說要調宮廟、調活動中心來放你們的彈藥以及戰備物資,是不是?"},{"start":252.978,"end":256.22,"text":"這件事我們剛才不少人講過,我們會引落在這個方面做檢討這人家嚇死欸,老百姓剛問我們說是不是要戰爭的一觸可發,活動中心以及宮廟,它不是你放這些彈藥相關的設施,它沒有欸,你可以這樣做嗎?"},{"start":276.345,"end":292.156,"text":"報告委員我們剛剛部長也回答了說一切在符合國際法案國內法的要求情況之下就儲存地點我們會來做全面的檢討那至於說過去所定的這個方法是公廟或是活動中心我們國防部也允諾在未來做檢討"},{"start":293.076,"end":293.257,"text":"公廟也很緊張"},{"start":311.877,"end":312.659,"text":"委員我們會在一個月做個檢討"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:23:10.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:23:11.076000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請副部長。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-17T12:23:11.076000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:23:19.994000+08:00","text":"來，柏副部長請。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:23:19.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:23:19.994000+08:00","text":"楊委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:23:19.994000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:23:20.995000+08:00","text":"副部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:23:20.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:23:45.541000+08:00","text":"針對本週一中共對臺展開無預警的演習，雖然只有13個小時，人民也不是很有感，似乎認為是有一點常態化，但是我們看到裡面有一個問題，也就是它每一次都縮小包圍的封鎖圈，您的看法呢？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:23:46.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:24:24.278000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我跟委員報告，我舉四個例子跟委員報告，從2022年8月裴洛西女士來訪，它是第一次軍演，那次的軍演執行了7天；第二次是在2023年，它號稱是第一次利劍，那是我們蔡前總統出訪的時候，會見美國國會議員麥卡錫，它又第二次軍演，那個時候的時間是5天；然後第三次是今年2024-B，從3天、2天變1天。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:24:24.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:24:43.226000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，它如果從7天、5天、3天、2天，甚至是1天，他們所演習的方式越來越成熟，圍我們是圍得越來越近，準備的天數越來越少，給我們的壓力越來越大，我們反應的空間越來越少，所以即使只有1天，也不要以為對我們好像沒有威脅，事實是威脅更大，所以這個1天的軍演，我們必須要很嚴肅地看這件事情。","quality":0.554},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:24:43.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:12.234000+08:00","text":"而且關於這次的海警船，他們出動了萬噸級的海警船，今年利劍第一次的時候，4艘海警船事實上是在我們的東邊，這一次他們出動了12艘逆時針圍繞在臺灣的周邊，所以情況是愈來愈嚴重。","quality":0.289},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:25:12.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:13.234000+08:00","text":"我們怕的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:25:14.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:25.517000+08:00","text":"就是他們在無預警的情況下，在下次行動的時候，有可能會突穿到我們的24浬，對我們來講是威脅，對全球也都發出警訊。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:25:26.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:35.721000+08:00","text":"好，本席給你一分多鐘的時間說明，也就是說您看到持續縮小封鎖線其實是危險的？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:25:35.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:36.401000+08:00","text":"是危險的！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:25:38.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:41.683000+08:00","text":"這次也有天然氣運輸船掉頭就走，甚至國外有一些船長拒絕穿越演習的範圍。","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:25:41.683000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:42.683000+08:00","text":"那我們的天然氣都是靠船運，在這樣的情況之下，你們如何協助？","quality":0.038},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:25:42.683000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:43.683000+08:00","text":"怎麼因應？","quality":0},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:25:42.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:25:45.104000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們看到很多公共訊息發布的時候，事實上並沒有看到它真正地掉頭或離開。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:07.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:26:29.706000+08:00","text":"這次中共非常聰明，對演習區域不劃特定的No-Fly Zone，就是禁航區，所有區域來講都是保持開放的，盡可能把對國際的影響做到最小，但未來可能會影響到我方燃油的運輸或外資的進入，這是它們未來的企圖。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:30.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:26:33.549000+08:00","text":"未來的企圖如何就是你們要好好去應對的。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:33.549000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:26:34.570000+08:00","text":"是，這就是我們要好好研究的。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:34.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:26:43.038000+08:00","text":"對，這也是本席要告訴你的，雖然中油說他們也如期地卸下來，但是媒體所報導的就是如此。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:43.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:26:49.363000+08:00","text":"如果你認為它沒有掉頭，就應該給社會大眾說明清楚，不要造成人民的恐慌。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:49.363000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:26:50.363000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:49.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:26:50.484000+08:00","text":"所以，針對第一個議題，我們必須嚴肅地看待。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:50.484000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:26:54.628000+08:00","text":"是的、是的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:26:54.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:07.375000+08:00","text":"尤其我們在整個能源方面依靠的船運與港口要怎麼因應，你們也一定要有一套協助、因應辦法，這才是人民能夠安心的。是的。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:07.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:08.876000+08:00","text":"這是一點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:08.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:22.484000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要請問，你說你認為這是嚴肅的，所以最近你們有發文給縣市政府，說要調宮廟、調活動中心來放你們的彈藥以及戰備物資，是不是？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:22.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:24.039000+08:00","text":"報告委員，關於這件事情，剛剛我們部長也講過，我們允諾會在這個方面檢討。","quality":0.548},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:24.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:24.119000+08:00","text":"這個把人家嚇死了欸！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:24.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:24.979000+08:00","text":"有老百姓問我們是不是要戰爭了、一觸可發？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:24.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:25.800000+08:00","text":"活動中心以及宮廟不是你們放彈藥這些相關物資的設施！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:25.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:26.100000+08:00","text":"沒有欸！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:26.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:26.220000+08:00","text":"你們可以這樣做嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:46.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:27:55.751000+08:00","text":"報告委員，剛剛我們部長也回答說，一切都在符合國際法與國內法要求的情況之下，針對儲存地點，我們會來做全面的檢討。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:27:55.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:02.156000+08:00","text":"至於過去所定的方法是宮廟或活動中心，我們國防部也允諾在未來檢討。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:02.156000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:03.217000+08:00","text":"好，多久可以檢討出來？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:03.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:03.257000+08:00","text":"因為宮廟也很緊張。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:03.257000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:07.912000+08:00","text":"部長剛剛回答的是一個月。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:07.912000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:12.567000+08:00","text":"一個月內討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:12.567000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:17.222000+08:00","text":"因為活動中心是人口密集的地方，宮廟也是人口密集的地方，它的設備是不是符合，你們必須給民眾說明清楚，才不會引起恐慌嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:17.222000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:21.877000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:21.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:22.659000+08:00","text":"是，委員，這件事我們會在一個月內作個檢討、全面改善。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:23.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:28.016143+08:00","text":"一個月內作個檢討、回復給本席，好不好？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:28.316143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:32.316143+08:00","text":"可不可以再給我一分鐘……抱歉。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柏副部長鴻輝","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:32.616143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:33.759000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:34.059000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:36.344714+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔委員，謝謝你。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:36.644714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:38.073286+08:00","text":"副部長請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-17T12:28:38.373286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:28:42.373286+08:00","text":"接下來進行詢答的是陳培瑜委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":774,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時23分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請副部長。"],["主席：來，柏副部長請。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：副部長好。針對本週一中共對臺展開無預警的演習，雖然只有13個小時，人民也不是很有感，似乎認為是有一點常態化，但是我們看到裡面有一個問題，也就是它每一次都縮小包圍的封鎖圈，您的看法呢？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，我跟委員報告，我舉四個例子跟委員報告，從2022年8月裴洛西女士來訪，它是第一次軍演，那次的軍演執行了7天；第二次是在2023年，它號稱是第一次利劍，那是我們蔡前總統出訪的時候，會見美國國會議員麥卡錫，它又第二次軍演，那個時候的時間是5天；然後第三次是今年2024-B，從3天、2天變1天。我跟委員報告，它如果從7天、5天、3天、2天，甚至是1天，他們所演習的方式越來越成熟，圍我們是圍得越來越近，準備的天數越來越少，給我們的壓力越來越大，我們反應的空間越來越少，所以即使只有1天，也不要以為對我們好像沒有威脅，事實是威脅更大，所以這個1天的軍演，我們必須要很嚴肅地看這件事情。而且關於這次的海警船，他們出動了萬噸級的海警船，今年利劍第一次的時候，4艘海警船事實上是在我們的東邊，這一次他們出動了12艘逆時針圍繞在臺灣的周邊，所以情況是愈來愈嚴重。我們怕的是什麼？就是他們在無預警的情況下，在下次行動的時候，有可能會突穿到我們的24浬，對我們來講是威脅，對全球也都發出警訊。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，本席給你一分多鐘的時間說明，也就是說您看到持續縮小封鎖線其實是危險的？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是危險的！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這次也有天然氣運輸船掉頭就走，甚至國外有一些船長拒絕穿越演習的範圍。那我們的天然氣都是靠船運，在這樣的情況之下，你們如何協助？怎麼因應？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：跟委員報告，我們看到很多公共訊息發布的時候，事實上並沒有看到它真正地掉頭或離開。這次中共非常聰明，對演習區域不劃特定的No-Fly 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