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是不是 沒錯吧那這些我們在醫院看到的有很多外籍看護是跟著長輩到醫院去幫助那個醫院的護理人員從事這個長者的照顧嗎好 所以說我們看一下護佐既然可以到機構"},{"start":274.702,"end":294.094,"text":"去協助這些工作他還有從事這個服藥的非核心業務這個能力那你覺得他可不可以進入到一般醫療機構你們現在沒有放寬到醫院喔你們現在是只有到機構跟家庭那你覺得這些人可不可以到醫院去喬外森未來沒有問題未來沒有問題對的麥克風講好不好來我們請署長"},{"start":296.609,"end":321.981,"text":"跟委員報告現在衛福部要準備要開放的護理醫護所的中階它是未來是所有的醫療機構都可以包括醫院對都已經沒有說只限於上面的但是目前勞動部只有到機構對那個是移工對那個是機構移工那喬外森呢喬外森目前是沒有限制在這個所以喬外森也可以到醫院去對未來是可以現在進來現在可不可以"},{"start":322.541,"end":342.26,"text":"跟委員報告,因為剛剛翠北提到那個慈濟他其實不是僑外生,他其實是移工進來,機構移工是屬於第二類的,年輕移工去進修後那所以是以學生身份進來的,未來他們習得副理專業之後可不可以到醫院去?都可以部長是這樣嗎?很好,所以這下我要坐著"},{"start":343.101,"end":359.249,"text":"今天我大概幾乎就問的您都接受來往下一頁所以其實我們來看一下機構的雇主跟家庭看護基本上其實以目前外籍移工進入我們的家庭他的華語能力不見得比一個在台灣受過3到5年教育的學生的橋外生來得好嘛部長同意嗎"},{"start":360.649,"end":380.302,"text":"對,如果是學生來臺灣的僑外生他的語言能力一定比引進的外籍看護好嘛第二個,他的專業技術能力也一定比這些外籍義工好嘛所以讓這些僑外生積極的不要說取代啦積極的來參與到我們機構家庭甚至未來醫院擔任輔佐的工作你會全力支持嗎"},{"start":381.902,"end":399.25,"text":"但是我們也希望說這個工作因為我要跟部長說明一下這幾年來我8年都常常在東南亞跑新南向的工作持續在做我發現很多越南甚至包括泰國部分的印尼"},{"start":400.01,"end":416.485,"text":"他們過去只是輸出移工看護到我們臺灣來做這個非技術的工作但是他們現在發現臺灣的技術教育非常的好而這些國家本身的醫護的教育培養的質跟量都還不夠"},{"start":417.325,"end":438.175,"text":"所以現在台灣很多的護專還有護專五年制護專的學校包括屏東的慈惠他們都很希望引進這些僑外生這些僑外生進來之後五年了語言也好了技術也有了那他們因為不是本國人不能取得醫護師的護理師的證照但他可以到醫院去從事護佐這樣的方向部長你支持嗎"},{"start":438.775,"end":463.401,"text":"我們支持支持而且目前就朝這個方向好那您現在大力的支持讓去教育部跟衛福部來處理現在又有什麼問題呢他們的招生遇到了他們在招收橋外生這樣的一個來台灣接受護理培養教育的人的時候呢教育部啊對他的額數是有做管制的您覺得他們的額數管制是擔心他們衝擊到本國勞工的就業機會嗎會嗎"},{"start":466.128,"end":483.615,"text":"其實是不會這句話就很好了就要您這句話我要跟教育部說因為教育部常常說我們之所以限制名額考量到勞動部長期以來對本勞的工作機會的保障但是這些人有沒有損及到我們本國醫護人員的工作權有沒有"},{"start":484.741,"end":500.343,"text":"如果他們從事一戶左的話因為我們跟衛福部都有關於這方面的所以確定沒有人力的控的那一個因為那個都是有名額的嘛那我們大概也都有了解所以我現在就是關心名額因為教育部在招生名額有管制嘛所以我要問你"},{"start":501.204,"end":524.211,"text":"就你認為引進這樣的人力可以解決醫院的人力荒提供我們國人在醫院裡面接受會護理專業以外核心技能的照顧人員的照顧有幫助嗎?也不會損及到本國醫護人員、專業人員有政大人員的工作權,不會嗎?好,那接下來我希望你用同樣的態度來協助我們解決長途或者是區域客運車駕駛員的這個問題,可以嗎?"},{"start":527.512,"end":542.817,"text":"可以我們也開放了也開放了對我們都提到國發會就是醫院互佐、客運司機、貨運駕駛我們開放了這三類那這三類當中國發會也通過了那這三類當中如果他是以"},{"start":543.217,"end":555.643,"text":"橋外生身份進來的學生經過學校休業後也可以做這些工作?對,可以。都可以做這些工作?對,可以。很好,我們趕快把這個好消息盡量的宣布出去。我有跟交通部長建議,其實這些學校他們在比如說貨運,就是這種運輸物流類的,應該是多可以開班。"},{"start":563.847,"end":590.522,"text":"不要只是侷限在STEM的就是那個理工類的這樣子的開班的狀態所以您說交通部長他同意嗎?支持嗎?沒有,我有跟他建議的你現在建議,所以我下次找交通部長來支持這樣的想法應該是要跟教育部一起談是,因為現在這些部會他們都擔心說因為如果沒有勞動部首肯他們擔心開放這些橋外生進來我們的職業、職場領域會損及到本國勞工的勞動權益委員這個我們完全配合完全配合,謝謝"},{"start":593.988,"end":594.049,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉斌"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1101,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時24分）主席，我不會吃醋，如果你只給姓名兩個字的委員比較長的發言時間，我都可以接受。"],["主席：因為他是本委員會的委員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主席、在場委員先進、列席政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好。上週這個時候我問邱泰源部長增設護理佐解醫院人事荒的問題，今天我要關心的是放寬僑外護理生留臺工作的問題。我們看第一張簡報，你們現在推出了中階技術人才計畫，對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們希望資深移工能夠達六年有很高的技術，或者年輕移工取得在職進修，這些都可以繼續留下來從事專門技術，尤其是取得副學士，通過僑外生評點的可以在臺灣做專門性的技術工作，對不對？前面兩項是移工身分進來，經過技術認定或進修讓他可以繼續做中階的技術，但是後者是學生進來，所以他後來就可以在臺工作，是這樣嗎？沒錯喔？沒有關係，部長，你可以用麥克風說一下「對」，這樣我就知道，至少我不會問你願意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是、是，對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：再看下一頁。我們看到因為這樣的關係，勞動部長甚至說僑外生可以從事中階的房務即觀光旅宿業，你也同意客運司機跟醫院的護佐也在討論中嘛？"],["何部長佩珊：沒錯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我們看到花蓮慈濟醫院就引進了第二批的菲國護佐，就是僑外生，他們現在開始招收僑外生，這個政策是部長支持嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是，而且已經通過了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，我知道。所以我想請教一下，那目前這些進來的沒有到醫院，現在只能到機構跟家庭，沒錯吧？可是在看護的部分，我們想想看，在家庭或機構的長輩如果生病了要到醫院，是不是？沒錯吧？我們在醫院看到有很多外籍看護，這些是跟著長輩到醫院去幫助醫院的護理人員從事對長者的照顧。所以我們看一下，護佐既然可以到機構去協助這些工作，他還有從事服藥的非核心業務的能力，那你覺得他可不可以進入到一般醫療機構？你們現在沒有放寬到醫院，現在是只有到機構跟家庭，那你覺得這些人可不可以到醫院？就是僑外生，未來有沒有問題？"],["何部長佩珊：請署長向委員說明。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。"],["蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，現在衛福部準備開放的護佐，未來是所有的醫療機構都可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：包括醫院？"],["蔡署長孟良：對，都已經沒有只限於上面這些。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是目前勞動部規定只有到機構跟家庭。"],["蔡署長孟良：對，那個是機構移工。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那僑外生呢？"],["蔡署長孟良：僑外生目前是沒有限制在這個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以僑外生也可以到醫院去？"],["蔡署長孟良：對，未來是可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在可不可以？"],["蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，您剛剛特別提到慈濟，其實那些不是僑外生，其實是移工進來，是機構移工。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這個屬於第二類的？"],["蔡署長孟良：對、對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：年輕移工在進修之後。"],["蔡署長孟良：對、對，他是屬於那類。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那以學生身分進來的，未來他們習得護理專業之後，可不可以到醫院去？"],["蔡署長孟良：都可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長，是這樣嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，今天我問的您大概都接受。繼續看下一頁，我們來看一下，機構的護佐跟家庭看護，基本上其實以目前外籍移工進入我們的家庭，他的華語能力不見得比一個在臺灣受過三到五年教育的僑外生來得好，部長同意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，如果是學生來臺灣的僑外生，他的語言能力一定比引進的外籍看護好嘛！第二個，他的專業技術能力也一定比這些外籍移工好。所以讓這些僑外生積極的，不要說取代啦，就是積極的來參與到我們機構、家庭，甚至未來到醫院擔任護佐的工作，你會全力支持嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：是，當然。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我要跟部長說明一下，這八年來，我都常常在東南亞跑，新南向的工作持續在做，我發現很多越南，甚至包含泰國及部分的印尼，他們過去只是輸出移工看護到我們臺灣來做非技術的工作，但是他們現在發現了臺灣的技職教育非常的好，而這些國家本身醫護教育培養的質跟量都還不夠，所以現在臺灣很多的護專還有五年制的護專學校，包括屏東的慈惠，他們都很希望引進這些僑外生，這些僑外生進來五年之後，語言也好了，技術也有了，他們因為不是本國人，不能取得護理師證照，但他可以到醫院去從事護佐，這樣的方向部長支持嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：我們支持，而且目前就是朝這個方向在做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那您現在大力的支持，讓教育部跟衛福部來處理，現在遇到什麼問題呢？他們在招收僑外生來臺灣接受護理培養教育的人的時候，教育部對這部分的額數是有做管制的，您覺得他們的額數管制是擔心他們衝擊到本國勞工的就業機會嗎？會嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：其實是不會。"],["鍾委員佳濱：其實是不會，這句話就很好了，就要您這句話，我要跟教育部說，因為教育部就常常說，我們之所以限制名額，是考量到勞動部長期以來對本勞的工作機會的保障，其實這些人有沒有損及到我們本國醫護人員的工作權？有沒有？如果他們從事醫院護佐的話。"],["何部長佩珊：不會啦！因為我們跟衛福部都有對這方面人力的了解，因為那個都是有名額的，我們大概也都有了解。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，我現在就是關心名額，因為教育部在招生名額有管制嘛，所以我要問你，就你認為引進這樣的人力可以解決醫院的人力荒，提高我們國人在醫院裡面接受會護理專業以外核心技能的照顧人員的照顧，這個有幫助嘛！"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也不會損及到本國醫護人員、專業人員有證照人員的工作權，不會嘛！"],["何部長佩珊：不會。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那接下來我希望你用同樣的態度來協助我們解決長途或者是區域客運車駕駛員的問題，可以嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：可以，我們也開放了，我們都提到國發會，就是醫院護佐、客運司機、貨運駕駛，我們開放了這三類，國發會也通過了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那這三類當中，如果是以僑外生身分進來的學生，經過學校修業後也可以做這些工作了？"],["何部長佩珊：對、對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：都可以做這些工作？"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],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