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我們有請副部長來博副部長秀元好"},{"start":11.257,"end":26.831,"text":"副部長好,我想請教一下副部長,知道我們屏東縣目前有多少國軍的基地跟演訓的場域嗎?這個詳細數字的話,七處,可能不止,大大小小不止,因為我們訓示場講主要的訓場是七個訓場,"},{"start":32.836,"end":33.736,"text":"徐富癸徐副部長徐富癸"},{"start":55.59,"end":84.512,"text":"但是除了注收之外我們受到的一個傷害也很大尤其我想我跟吳立法委員都一樣我們長期在地方在這個服務的過程裡面也遭受到很多鄉親的一個質疑說針對這個國軍的一個募領的一個工作上面沒有考量到一個所謂的橫貧性尤其我們像我們屏東的酒棚基地長年請教副部長我們一年演訓的次數有多少時間有多少"},{"start":87.154,"end":99.183,"text":"保委員我這樣看應該進訓的部隊從年初到年尾幾乎都有演訓是啊我們的酒棚機率有1600公頃但是我們跟一公頃的訓場的補助標準一樣的"},{"start":103.126,"end":117.936,"text":"加上我們的次數比其他縣市多更多但是我們沒有受到我們不是要求要補償我們希望可以不要來演習不要傷害我們的房子不要傷害我們的漁場可是不可能啊你們還是要來演習但是相對性"},{"start":118.656,"end":143.475,"text":"在過去這麼多年以來我們要求要去檢討這個木林基金的一個調整把中科院各軍種的一個補償費用做一個適當的一個比例的原則來保障我們地方的權益這部分我覺得我們國防部一直沒有釋出善意委員我想那個我們訓示上他一直要說他要回答那就讓他回答吧"},{"start":146.498,"end":160.917,"text":"跟委員報告那個屏東的木林補助嚴格來講大概是全省各縣市最高的當然我們主要的武器火炮的訓場在屏東比較多"},{"start":161.678,"end":182.427,"text":"那第二個關於中科院的部分我們最近有在研討原本的話我們是委由中科院來做補助那現在考慮到其他海空的飛彈在那邊做射擊所以我們已經在研議要把它做來做一個分開意思也說到時候會有兩個單位來做相關的一些補助"},{"start":183.007,"end":183.207,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":207.509,"end":208.85,"text":"賠償應該永遠都達不到所謂的一個標準"},{"start":230.441,"end":232.622,"text":"市長請教一下今年我看修正的計畫裡面有特別一個"},{"start":258.53,"end":269.282,"text":"如果那個子彈打到上面的又加碼那個是賠償是賠償跟補助不一樣如果有受傷害的話這個打到的時候怎麼辦會賠償另外再做賠償"},{"start":275.447,"end":275.587,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":296.056,"end":296.857,"text":"主席 不好意思"},{"start":318.96,"end":338.114,"text":"最後針對我們所謂的一個海洋保育的部分希望我們也要強化這些漁民已經沒辦法出海捕魚很可憐了連出海捕魚都捕不到魚另外一個針對我們所有的基地周邊的道路因為你們有很多的大型卡車大型軍用車進出但是我們道路都很狹小"},{"start":339.235,"end":339.295,"text":"徐富癸"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":830,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（12時34分）謝謝主席，有請副部長。"],["主席：請柏副部長。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：徐委員好。"],["徐委員富癸：副部長好。我想請教副部長知不知道我們屏東縣目前有多少國軍基地跟演訓的場域？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：詳細數字的話……總共是多少？"],["張次長俊志：七處。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：七處喔？可能不只喔！大大小小不只啦！"],["徐委員富癸：不只啦！"],["柏副部長鴻輝：不只、不只、不只，我們訓次室次長講的是主要訓場有七個訓場。"],["徐委員富癸：我們還有很多國軍的基地。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：對，補助的。"],["徐委員富癸：陸海空都駐紮在屏東，也還有很多演訓基地。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：對、對、對。"],["徐委員富癸：所以屏東縣是對國防部最友善的一個縣市，副部長認同嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：我認同，而且我們對屏東的付出也很多，比如說著名的每年洋蔥助收等等，我們國防部都不遺餘力。"],["徐委員富癸：但是除了助收之外，我們受到的傷害也很大。尤其我跟伍麗華委員都一樣，在我們長期於地方服務的過程裡面，也遭受到很多鄉親的質疑，就是針對國軍在睦鄰工作上沒有考量到衡平性，尤其我們屏東的九鵬基地長年……請教副部長，我們一年演訓的次數有多少、時間有多少？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，我這樣看，技訓的部隊從年初到年尾幾乎都有演訓。"],["徐委員富癸：是啊！九鵬基地有1,600公頃，但是跟1公頃訓場的補助標準是一樣的。加上我們的次數比其他縣市多更多，卻沒有受到……我們不是要求補償，而是希望可以不要來演習、不要傷害我們的房子、不要傷害我們的漁場。可是不可能啊！你們還是要來演習啊！而且相對於過去這麼多年以來我們要求檢討睦鄰基金的調整，把中科院各軍種的補償費用以適當的比例原則來保障地方的權益，在這部分，我覺得國防部一直沒有釋出善意。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：委員，我想……訓次室次長一直說他要回答，那就讓他回答吧！"],["張次長俊志：跟委員報告，屏東的睦鄰補助嚴格來講大概是全省各縣市最高的，當然我們主要的武器火炮訓場在屏東比較多。第二，關於中科院的部分，我們最近也在研討，原本的話，我們是委由中科院來補助，而現在考慮到還有其他海空飛彈在那邊射擊，所以我們已經在研議要分開，意思也就是說到時候會有兩個單位做相關的補助。第三個，委員……"],["徐委員富癸：但是很遺憾的，在討論的過程裡面，都沒有讓地方政府跟我們當地部落有參與的機會。實際上，以往很多村落因為演習導致道路受損，甚至也有一些房子受損，都沒有得到應有的補償。"],["張次長俊志：跟委員報告，我們業管的是主要訓場的睦鄰補助，而您剛剛講的是賠償，其實有另外的賠償辦法，只要因為演訓期間受到任何損傷，都可以提出賠償的辦法，跟您作報告。"],["徐委員富癸：賠償應該永遠都達不到所謂的標準啦！"],["張次長俊志：對，賠償跟訓場睦鄰補助是不一樣的，睦鄰補助會有很多參考值，例如有使用的次數、天數，還考慮到聲音、震爆等等，我們有補助。如果因為演訓期間造成傷害的話則是另外賠償，跟您報告。"],["徐委員富癸：次長，請教一下，我看今年的修正計畫裡面有特別提到一點：如果子彈打到上面又加碼？"],["張次長俊志：那是賠償，跟補助不一樣。如果有造成傷害的話會另外……"],["徐委員富癸：那真的打到的時候怎麼辦？"],["張次長俊志：會賠償，會另外再賠償。"],["徐委員富癸：希望不要打到啦！"],["張次長俊志：不會、不會。"],["徐委員富癸：不會啦！講得那麼快，我都很擔心欸！"],["柏副部長鴻輝：委員，就國防部的立場，首先要感謝屏東在訓場方面與我們長時間下來的所有合作和容忍。關於國家的安全，我相信委員也很支持國家安全，而今天很多這樣的訓練設施也是在確保國家安全。我們必須要強調，今天有這樣子的對應方式必須回到前面──如果中共不這樣每天對我們作灰色地帶進逼，我們就不會這麼激烈地訓練，就這麼簡單！"],["徐委員富癸：好。最後，副部長……主席，不好意思，我再……"],["主席：儘快喔！"],["徐委員富癸：我最後針對海洋保育部分，希望也要強化。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：我們會。"],["徐委員富癸：這些漁民沒辦法出海捕魚已經很可憐了，連出海捕魚也都捕不到魚。另外，在所有基地周邊的道路，你們有很多大型卡車、大型軍用車輛進出，但我們的道路都很狹小，拜託優先處理好不好？不要造成我們交通上的問題。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：好，委員，針對未來的事務，訓次室次長也在這個地方，只要地方上有任何像您說到的問題提出來，我們都希望全民參與，不是只關起門來做，我相信我們訓次室次長也一定會同意。"],["徐委員富癸：我希望不是我提出來你們才要改進，你們應該主動提出來，做到真的敦親睦鄰，好不好？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是，沒問題。謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐富癸委員，副部長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是麥玉珍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","洪申翰","林憶君","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林岱樺","鍾佳濱","馬文君","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","徐富癸","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉建國"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}