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:"麥委員好"},{"start":11.547,"end":40.228,"text":"好 副部長好我們國軍保防單位查獲共某案件到乎增加了100年到112年度就查獲了40案件共有113人所以對比來說90年到99年的話就獲查的9人而已就是暴增了12倍所以請教部長"},{"start":41.67,"end":57.146,"text":"我們的國軍到底發生什麼事了還有第二個我們再請教這一題我們大陸姐妹6年拿身份證跟4年拿到身份證他們對國安有問題嗎"},{"start":59.196,"end":86.602,"text":"有關於這兩個問題我首先要回答的第一個問題就是說有關於所謂的這樣子共諜案的暴增的情況基本上我們也跟委員報告事實上來講多半都是我們國軍主動發掘的這個百分比大概在86%甚至到87%左右那我相信這樣子的一個方式今天我們國軍之所以會暴增"},{"start":87.81,"end":106.94,"text":"一個原因就是中國大陸對我們在任何方面的滲透採取各種不同方式要來滲透到我們軍隊那我們必須要檢討為什麼會有這麼的管道進來這樣子的一個方式是我們在方式上檢討的這是第一點"},{"start":110.143,"end":136.2,"text":"法際教育上來講我們都必須要告訴我們的官兵因為很多的共諜案發生都是因為小小的利益所產生的誘惑讓我們覺得很遺憾在這個方面法際教育是我們經常在我們的各種不同的手段去教育我們的官兵的第三個我們需要強調的我們今天的國家安全是靠大家"},{"start":138.239,"end":152.075,"text":"國軍是守在第一線守護國家安全當國軍發生任何問題的時候事實上來講我們在全社會上來講也必須要請社會給我們國軍支持也就是說如果他有這樣的現象我們也歡迎"},{"start":152.575,"end":152.735,"text":"麥玉珍"},{"start":169.531,"end":169.891,"text":"發言委員：麥玉珍發言委員：麥玉珍"},{"start":191.359,"end":206.259,"text":"新住民大陸姐妹他們拿到身份證台灣的身份證不會影響到我們在台灣的國安的問題所以也請大家不要再去抹黑或者是拿這個來去當作一個說"},{"start":207.2,"end":223.086,"text":"新住民拿到身份證的問題還有第二個就是說我們的我們很肯定很肯定就是我們的我們國防隊這邊的付出但是呢不過有一些案例就是就是冰山一角啊如何加強"},{"start":224.846,"end":239.059,"text":"保防人員編制提升就是法源依據的標準性還有同時要確保人員升遷的管道要順利才能讓官兵全力防堵共謀的滲透所以"},{"start":241.701,"end":254.974,"text":"保防工作非常不容易大家都是在這個工作很不容易但是除了受到單位主管的打壓還有說獨立性又不到重視的話這樣子的問題我們的國防部這邊的這邊要如什麼策略還有什麼"},{"start":263.401,"end":264.562,"text":"保防部長顧立雄報告業務概況．"},{"start":293.018,"end":304.446,"text":"未來保防他的路線不是這麼窄我們在我們的金管上來講如何做交織訓練讓他有一個未來不是只有在保防圈裡面最後一個重要概念是什麼"},{"start":305.683,"end":305.703,"text":"謝謝委員："}]},"gazette":{"lineno":871,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（12時40分）謝謝主席，有請副部長。"],["主席：副部長請。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：麥委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：副部長好。國軍保防單位查獲的共諜案件大幅增加，100年到112年度就查獲了40起案件、共有113人；對比來說，90年到99年查獲9人而已，也就是暴增了12倍。所以請教副部長，國軍到底發生什麼事了？","還有第二個，我再請教這一題：大陸姊妹6年拿到身分證還是4年拿身分證在國安上會有問題嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，關於這兩個問題，我首先要回答的是第一個問題。關於所謂共諜案暴增的情況，基本上，我也跟委員報告，事實上多半都是國軍主動發覺的，百分比大概在86%，甚至到87%左右。我相信今天國軍相關案件之所以會暴增有一個原因，就是中國大陸對我們在任何方面的滲透！採取各種不同方式，也要滲透我們的軍隊。那我們必須檢討為什麼會有這麼多管道進來，我們是從方式上檢討，這是第一點。第二，就所有法紀教育來講，我們都必須告訴官兵，很多共諜案發生都是因為小小的利益產生這樣的誘惑，我們覺得很遺憾。在法紀教育這方面，我們經常透過各種不同手段教育官兵。第三個，我必須強調的是，國家安全是靠大家，國軍在第一線守護國家安全，當國軍發生任何問題的時候，事實上也要請全社會給予國軍支持。如果有這樣的現象，我們也歡迎提供……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，要給你稱讚啦！之前其他人沒有查獲那麼多，現在查獲那麼多，你有這樣的功勞。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：不是，因為如我講的，中共的滲透手法愈來愈複雜、多元化。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，所以我說很好，就是查獲更多。我們要發現得更早……"],["柏副部長鴻輝：對，要發現更早，但是我們希望……"],["麥委員玉珍：才不會危害我們的國家跟安全嘛！"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是，我希望國軍都不會受到誘惑。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我要問出問題，也稱讚你一下，因為發現更多他們的滲透、又發現得早，就能依法處理，這樣更好。新住民與大陸姊妹拿到臺灣身分證不會影響到臺灣的國安問題，所以也請大家不要再抹黑或把新住民拿身分證當成問題。","還有第二點，我們也很肯定國防軍隊的付出，但是有一些案例就是冰山一角，如何加強保防人員編制、提升法源依據的標準性？還有，要同時確保人員升遷管道順利，才能讓官兵全力防堵共諜的滲透嘛！保防工作非常不容易啦！大家都在工作，很不容易，但是除了受到單位主管的打壓，獨立性又得不到重視，對於這樣的問題，國防部這邊有什麼策略、如何提防這樣的問題？你剛才講的都是你的工作，但是也要保護這些人的工作，那麼你要怎麼做才能真正保護到大家？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：謝謝委員給我這個機會表達。保防是我督導的，而我對於保防工作非常重視，局長也在旁邊，我定期到全省任何地方跟保防幹部座談。我也告訴政戰局局長，未來保防的路線不是這麼窄，我們在經管上要研究如何做交織訓練、讓他有未來，不是只有在保防圈裡面。最後一個重要概念是什麼？保防工作不是只靠保防官，全體官兵每一個人都是保防官，這樣的意識才能遏阻中共每天用不同手段滲透我們，這點跟委員報告。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，謝謝國防部，希望你們保護國家、保護我們人民的安全……"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：也要保護軍官大家的安全，這是我們希望的。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝麥玉珍委員，國防部副部長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","洪申翰","林憶君","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林岱樺","鍾佳濱","馬文君","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","徐富癸","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉建國"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}