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有請副部長副部長您好 大家都辛苦了"},{"start":15.031,"end":30.647,"text":"我今天來想要請教一下副部長應該有了解近日以來軍紀問題屢屢上新聞你應該很清楚 比我更清楚所以我就直接問了"},{"start":31.408,"end":57.505,"text":"那麼到底國防部目前軍方做了哪一些對應或者是調整措施我想了解一下好報委有關軍事督導事實上來講我們每一個軍種單位都有相關的單位來做督導甚至於到基層的聯隊他都有相關的軍事督導那我們發現到這些我們的少數官兵在營外"},{"start":58.385,"end":58.405,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":77.808,"end":82.431,"text":"謝謝副部長我大概了解了但是我今天來我其實是接收到很多弟兄"},{"start":107.022,"end":111.425,"text":"﹚伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe﹚伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe﹚"},{"start":132.128,"end":155.034,"text":"所以如果違背這樣的一個目標導致大家心生埋怨然後大家人心惶惶您覺得這樣能打仗嗎當然是不行的所以在軍際上來講要求人心渙散這件事情我們軍隊在心防始終沒有送穴過那我想要跟副部長就是轉達是"},{"start":157.642,"end":180.529,"text":"我聽到的我感受到的其實我們軍方有所謂的聯作每次只要有一個人出事你應該很了解就是從班牌聯營旅無限循環的檢討會其實對很多人來講壓力很大他做得好好的"},{"start":181.738,"end":194.026,"text":"但是呢他馬上就要被進修照回然後無限循環的檢討會對他來講很受打擊對他們的家庭來講更受挫折"},{"start":195.185,"end":217.487,"text":"我覺得這不是最好的一種方式可是我們上去看這些弟兄們的留言我發現大家都會談到一件事好像很抱怨的就是說太多不好的都是留下來然後太少太儲不好的然後好的劣幣驅逐良幣走了我聽到大部分都是這樣"},{"start":219.123,"end":244.135,"text":"所以我認為我們無需要本末倒置我希望的是說其實我可以理解因為我們原住民太多國軍弟兄其實就像很多的行業別像很年輕20幾歲剛出來的法官要去處理那麼多他人生經驗中不曾理解過不曾感受過的案件你叫他如何做判斷"},{"start":245.376,"end":264.236,"text":"所以我們需要有工具幫忙像我知道的這些年輕法官現在有所謂的專業鑑定師來輔導他那我要講的是說我們很多的少尉排長他年紀輕輕他都不知道那些小小士兵在想什麼但是他要當他的輔導長"},{"start":267.13,"end":288.132,"text":"副部長我想你應該理解我的意思但是我們這樣的一個階級制度我們非常的惜才受過這樣的訓練所以我希望軍方能夠想辦法痛定思痛去找到一些更有效更好的一個管理我們的軍人紀律的方式可以嗎"},{"start":289.934,"end":304.512,"text":"有關於紀律管理在我們國軍不單只是在我們內部制裡面檢討我們國軍管理的方式那我必須要強調過去的連坐機制事實上在一個戰場上來講是一個他必須的手段"},{"start":305.313,"end":307.034,"text":"主席,我有一個小小的第二個問題,再給我一分鐘好嗎?全動數"},{"start":330.71,"end":350.425,"text":"我本來想要請教全動署這個後指部到底它的運作功能是什麼那我就不問了但是我知道的是以高雄為例平均一個輔導中心會有70個幹部有的是有薪水大部分是沒有薪水的"},{"start":350.805,"end":377.106,"text":"那到底他的工作內容是什麼那我今天會提出來的原因是說很多人跟我反映啊明明他就是回去變後備軍人不曾被邀請參加輔導中心活動然後呢連那個賴群組也沒有辦法備加然後呢常常看到他們去發物資但是呢民眾都以為是某個特定的政黨所以我就想要問了到底他們的功能是什麼應該是準備打仗吧"},{"start":377.406,"end":377.606,"text":"謝謝副部長 謝謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":892,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時46分）謝謝主席，有請副部長。"],["主席：副部長請。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：副部長您好，大家都辛苦了。我今天來是想請教一下，副部長應該了解，近日以來軍紀問題屢屢上新聞，你應該很清楚、比我更清楚，所以我就直接問了，到底國防部、軍方目前做了哪些對應或調整措施？我想了解一下。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：好。報告委員，有關於軍紀督導，事實上每一個軍種都有相關單位來督導，甚至到基層連隊，都有相關軍紀督導。我們發現這些少數官兵在營外因為飲酒而造成很多軍紀事件發生，這一點我們深切檢討，也不逃避責任。我們只能說就所有教育手段來講屬於成人教育，所以我們會利用任何法紀教育告訴官兵──知法不要犯法，一旦違了法……加入軍隊的團隊是為了保衛整個國家的安全，當你喪失這個身分，對你自己的職責和你的身分是一種侮辱、對你的家人是一種傷害。所以在這種情況下，我們會加強官兵的法紀教育。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝副部長，我大概了解了。但是我今天來，其實是接收到很多弟兄傳達給我的聲音，我想表達的是現在最重要的或者對國軍來講始終最重要的核心，我認為應該是穩定軍心、提振士氣，對吧？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是，完全正確。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：這樣才能打仗吧？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：軍隊才能帶好吧？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以，如果違背這樣的目標，導致大家心生埋怨然後人心惶惶，您覺得這樣能打仗嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：當然是不行啊！所以在軍紀要求上來講，針對人心渙散這件事情，軍隊心防始終沒有鬆懈過。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那我想跟副部長轉達我聽到的、我感受到的。其實軍方有所謂的連坐，每次只要有一個人出事，你應該很了解，就是從班、排、連、營、旅無限循環的開檢討會。其實對很多人來講壓力很大，他做得好好的，但是馬上就要被禁休、召回、然後是無限循環的檢討會，對他來講很受打擊，對他們的家庭來講更受挫折，我覺得這不是最好的方式。可是我上去看這些弟兄們的留言，發現大家都會談到一件事，備受抱怨的好像就是太多不好的都留下來、太少汰除不好的，然後好的呢？因為劣幣驅逐良幣，走了！我聽到的大部分都是這樣。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以我認為無需本末倒置，我可以理解，因為原住民有太多國軍弟兄，其實就像很多行業別，例如很年輕、二十幾歲剛出來的法官要處理那麼多他人生經驗中不曾理解過、不曾感受過的案件，你叫他如何判斷？所以需要工具幫忙，像我知道，針對這些年輕法官，現在有所謂的專業鑑定師來輔導他。而我要講的是也有很多少尉排長年紀輕輕，都不知道那些小小士兵在想什麼，卻要當他們的輔導長。副部長，我想你應該理解我的意思。我們非常惜才，他們受過這樣的訓練，在這樣的階級制度下，我希望軍方能夠想辦法、痛定思痛，找一些更有效、更好的管理軍人紀律方式，可以嗎？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：可以。報告委員，有關於紀律管理，國軍不單只是自己在內部檢討國軍管理的方式。我必須強調，過去的連坐機制事實上在戰場上來講是必須的手段，但是不是一定要這樣？我們部長也允諾檢討啦！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，沒關係，此時此刻國軍最需要的是士氣，我希望有確實有效的管理機制。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：好，沒問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我希望你們在一個星期內給我報告。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主席，我有個小小的第二個問題，再給我1分鐘好嗎？是針對全動署。"],["主席：摘要就好，好不好？因為剛才也都沒有延長。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那就請全動署……"],["柏副部長鴻輝：全動署是我業管，可以直接問、直接講。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我就直接講、不問了喔！"],["柏副部長鴻輝：好，不要問。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我本來想請教全動署後指部的運作功能到底是什麼？那我就不問了。我知道的是以高雄為例，平均一個輔導中心會有70個幹部，有的有薪水，但大部分沒有薪水，那到底工作內容是什麼？我今天會提出來的原因是很多人跟我反映，明明他就是回去了、變成後備軍人，不曾被邀請參加輔導中心活動，連LINE群組也沒有辦法被加，又常常看到他們去發物資，民眾都以為是某個特定政黨。所以我就想要問，到底他們的功能是什麼？應該是準備打仗吧？"],["柏副部長鴻輝：不是。報告委員，後備軍人組織有後備軍人組織的方式。我們下去後再跟委員報告，因為有的是志工，有的是有給職、有的是無給職。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，我就是希望要檢討一下它的功能和它的成效。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：我們也希望委員提供意見給我們，我們來檢討。"],["主席：請會後去說明。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：OK。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：我們一周之內給委員報告，謝謝委員。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝副部長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員。","接下來進行詢答的委員是蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員不在。","羅智強委員、羅智強委員、羅智強委員不在。","高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","已登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","本日會議有楊瓊瓔委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄，並刊登公報，相關機關以書面於兩周內答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","黃仁","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","林楚茵","洪申翰","林憶君","陳冠廷","賴士葆","林岱樺","鍾佳濱","馬文君","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","徐富癸","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉建國"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}