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行政院沒有復議你告訴我會不會就好你告訴我針對於立法院7月16日所通過的這個決議那你會不會變"},{"start":197.014,"end":200.642,"text":"所以換句話說你不會變我可以這麼解讀嗎?我可以這麼解讀嗎?"},{"start":204.926,"end":212.388,"text":"請針對本席的提問我們現在是一個民主國家照程序各方有各方的意見不一都可以討論但是我們現在走到民主程序是這樣子請問農業部部長陳部長你會不會依據立法院三讀通過行政院送請行政院行政院沒有賦予你會不會編這個預算"},{"start":234.235,"end":239.958,"text":"我還是跟委員說明你會不會編告訴我請告訴本席你會不會編我們現在目前並沒有這樣的規劃我們希望委員來支持換句話說你就是不甩立法院嘛行政院也沒有復印"},{"start":250.664,"end":278.483,"text":"行政院沒有復議你現在告訴本席是說你不會編我要讓社會大眾大家看清楚誰要照顧農民我們得到了一個答案也就是說立法院三讀通過行政院沒有復議竟然我們農業部也不編我要告訴給民眾我要告訴給農民我如果編了以後只是照顧一小部分的稻農而已我沒辦法照顧所有稻農"},{"start":281.145,"end":282.746,"text":"我請問你還是聽你的話在繳公糧的人這些人怎麼辦這幾年沒有提上這些人怎麼辦這些人怎麼辦"},{"start":307.043,"end":310.945,"text":"你改天把它廢掉你又不敢廢你又不照顧他們這怎麼會如此我告訴你這一些人沒有功勞也有苦勞啊沒有理由不照顧他們啊我今天要轉什麼政策都好但是聽你的話的人"},{"start":330.444,"end":348.99,"text":"竟然是這麼樣得不到照顧那你要怎麼辦?你對得起他們嗎?對不對?你又不敢廢掉你要做什麼政策?我們都OK但是是未知數欸現在乖乖聽你政策的人還在繳公糧的人十幾年"},{"start":349.93,"end":353.711,"text":"十幾年你薪水都漲了幾次啊十幾年都沒有漲你還大大大地說我要照顧他我請問聽你的話的人該當得到懲罰嗎不應當所以部長我相信你也是照顧你也是照顧農民的人本席的話你好好去聽沒說話也有哭話乖乖聽你的竟然還要得到懲罰十幾年沒漲對不起我們的農民"},{"start":376.815,"end":399.842,"text":"你自己冷靜去想我希望在你從議的預算能夠看到這筆預算好不好你趕快去研議接下來本期要跟你討論的也就是極端氣候我們現今救助的部分32.7億億在累計這10年來平均你支出這樣子那在這種情況之下我們好不容易去推動農保 農業保險"},{"start":402.663,"end":428.484,"text":"可是我們看到你的數字你明年所編列的是11.3億左右但是我們看到你實施的也就每一年就上億但是我們看到你的數字我們的農保覆蓋率它沒有達到兩成耶為什麼為什麼你這扣掉扣掉你的這個強制納保的這個部分你實際上只有多少"},{"start":429.224,"end":453.829,"text":"只有多少?17.6%所以該章怎麼辦?該章怎麼辦?極端氣候像我們的離子我沒有想到它掉在袋子裡頭耶結果它是不會長因為它的根斷了一半對不對?我們都去看了每一次我們都要現金救助我的心都痛了農民該章怎麼辦?我們好不容易有一個政策去做這個農業保險那為什麼?"},{"start":456.645,"end":477.202,"text":"為什麼執行不來?扣掉強制保險剩下17.6%你要怎麼因應?我已經要求我們農業部重新檢討那農業保險現在推動比較困難的地方你要求他們重新檢討什麼時候有因應方案你是推廣不夠人民沒有信心還是認為我覺得農民本身的風險的這些概念"},{"start":482.126,"end":496.215,"text":"農民聽得懂啊 要讓人家隊友有信心啊所以我覺得要求農經署跟我們的所屬單位再去跟農民做溝通不是只有溝通 他們很辛苦都有在溝通他們不願意啊 對否定 你現在講到重點 保單的設計也就是我這棵樹 有錢賠 可以賠 我隔壁不能賠 誰會甘願啊"},{"start":511.797,"end":512.598,"text":"這樣是不公平的我這股產我這一塊圓我可以賠我隔壁的不能賠"},{"start":521.874,"end":547.759,"text":"你的請募方式要不要去跟保險公司去檢討啊?這個就是我要求農金屬檢討就是保單的設計跟保單的理賠的標準跟保單要發生理賠的這些調查這個都需要精心去精準的去計算對!你的調查你應該點要放多啊!對不對?這個我們已經要求農金屬在處理多久時間可以告訴我們你們討論的方向改變的方案"},{"start":549.527,"end":560.276,"text":"我跟委員報告 我要求他們一個月來跟我報告報告完了以後有一個初步的成果我會跟委員報告最後一個議題本席請問你為了這個雞蛋進口的搞的送檢調行政處分不知道答案是什麼本席絕對不願意看到一個國家是這麼的紛亂"},{"start":576.26,"end":589.937,"text":"要進口搞了這麼多的事情現在每一天我們剩餘每一天耶雞蛋農啊苦哈哈每一天剩餘多少一百萬克"},{"start":591.789,"end":597.693,"text":"你們的主管告訴我們什麼未來會請國防部學校多使用雞蛋並請養雞協會規劃雞蛋促銷活動以協助消化雞蛋這個不是我們的政策不是你的政策為什麼要這麼說呢讓我們一桶霧水欸我告訴你這個寫這句話我絕對不是我們的國軍我們的學生他要以他的營養為基準來吃東西欸"},{"start":620.347,"end":622.228,"text":"對那這該怎麼辦 這樣的表示要怎麼處理 你要不要澄清"},{"start":642.259,"end":658.635,"text":"說誤解了 說錯了好 這個部分我們會來 我們會來澄清喔 這不是我們的政策澄清 不是你的政策 也說的不對 是不是對 相對的就是整個的基站的產銷好 你去澄清本席不希望造成家長孩子我們的阿兵哥家長都恐慌所以本席要請教 那怎麼解決"},{"start":665.222,"end":667.443,"text":"部長你現在說的還是在怪罪於業者啦你應該針對你是農業部阿"},{"start":692.811,"end":703.308,"text":"你要拿出你的方案 你的總區要不要控管你要從源頭啊 你不從源頭叫人家今天多生一點 明天少生一點"},{"start":705.351,"end":732.248,"text":"誰聽你的話他要生出來不生怎麼辦啊你應該從總機去控管本期要跟你討論這個議題也就是說你應該要好好的去討論我們要解決這個問題你一方面要進口二方面又剩餘那麼多你的問題點交集點在哪裡你的最原本他這個蛋從哪裡來從總機來總機要不要控管"},{"start":732.788,"end":750.591,"text":"你有沒有控管總經?有沒有去輔導?請教我們有在輔導,現在總經也有在控管但是一個非常重要的就是說我不大願意再用補助的方面去將他們淘汰因為我淘汰了老母雞,他們又進了新雞那對整個產業是沒有幫助的你講到這邊,也就是部長我們一個結論你以往的政策,你幫老母雞我一隻一隻多少錢啊?"},{"start":758.877,"end":780.088,"text":"去除的一支多少錢嘛 對不對鼓勵他們去除嘛 對不對你執行了一段時間你應該要滾動式去檢討所以表示之前的這個政策你是不成功的那你要怎麼辦你應該有研議方案出來好不好你去研議方案出來啦進口出了那麼多的"},{"start":780.708,"end":781.028,"text":"我大概兩個禮拜就可以提供給你"},{"start":808.424,"end":811.285,"text":"我想還趁這個機會能夠呼籲我們的消費者因為供需總是要有一個平衡那在需求端的部分希望說我們鼓勵我們所有的消費者"},{"start":835.43,"end":835.751,"text":"主席主席主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:47:10+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:47:11+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，邀請部長。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-17T12:47:11+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:47:12+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:47:10.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:47:10.342000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:47:30.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:47:30.348000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:47:31.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:47:58.224000+08:00","text":"針對今天召委所排定的議程，我們的目的，也就是要好好的照顧農民，本席從早上到現在所聽到的，似乎您的方向跟提案委員的方向不太一樣；當然本席也可以看出你終究還是希望能夠好好的照顧農民，對不對？是的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:47:58.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:48:40.019000+08:00","text":"但是，我們實務上從民主程序來看，立法院7月16日通過公糧收購案，要求你們應綜合考量各項的成本，包括人工、肥料，包括物價指數，將公糧收購價格從26元再提升5元，以因應目前物價指數的波動，導致農民成本增加，而且十幾年都沒有提升，這是政府的政策。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:48:40.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:00.263000+08:00","text":"可是到目前為止，這個案子經立法院三讀通過，行政院也沒有覆議，10月9日的時候財政部跟主計單位來立法院報告，我們就針對民主程序提出詢問，它就一句話：尊重農業部。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:00.263000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:03.024000+08:00","text":"所以本席要請教陳部長，在行政院沒有提覆議的情況下，現在要請你們重議，你會不會編提高公糧收購價格的預算？","quality":0.234},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:03.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:03.824000+08:00","text":"你會不會編？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:03.824000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:18.014000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，今天……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:18.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:18.274000+08:00","text":"請告訴我會不會編？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:18.274000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:19.274000+08:00","text":"現階段編的是針對我們推動的「1集、2轉、3加3」的一個經費。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:18.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:35.645000+08:00","text":"請針對本席的提問，立法院7月16日通過決議，行政院也沒有覆議，以及10月9日的報告，就本席剛剛所說的論述，請問你會不會編？","quality":0.449},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:35.645000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:36.645000+08:00","text":"也就是在行政院重議的時候，農業部會不會編提高公糧收購的價格？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:36.645000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:37.645000+08:00","text":"我們目前並沒有針對5塊錢去做經費的調整，但是我們增加了「1集、2轉、3加3」的部分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:35.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:35.845000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我們一項一項講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:36.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:36.226000+08:00","text":"換句話說，你不會編，是不是？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:36.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:45.293333+08:00","text":"我們目前沒有編。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:45.293333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:49:54.360667+08:00","text":"目前沒有編，未來會不會編？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:49:54.360667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:03.428000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:03.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:04.850000+08:00","text":"民主程序，行政院沒有覆議，你會不會編？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:04.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:05.490000+08:00","text":"你告訴我會不會就好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:05.490000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:06.490000+08:00","text":"沒有，我跟委員報告，公糧的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:05.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:06.832000+08:00","text":"你告訴我，針對立法院7月16日所通過的這個決議，你會不會編？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:06.832000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:27.535000+08:00","text":"我們目前沒有重新編的這樣子的一個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:27.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:30.141000+08:00","text":"換句話說，你不會編，我可以這麼解讀嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:30.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:30.642000+08:00","text":"我可以這麼解讀嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:30.642000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:34.926000+08:00","text":"我們希望委員能夠支持現在的作法，因為我們的目的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:34.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:35.146000+08:00","text":"請針對本席的提問……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:35.146000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:36.146000+08:00","text":"我想主決議還是……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:35.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:38.287000+08:00","text":"我們是民主國家，就照程序，各方意見不一，都可以討論，但是我們現在依民主程序，就是這樣子。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:50:38.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:50:42.368000+08:00","text":"請問農業部陳部長，依據立法院三讀通過的決議，送請行政院，行政院沒有提覆議，你會不會編這個預算？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:04.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:05.296000+08:00","text":"我還是跟委員說明……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:05.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:05.896000+08:00","text":"你會不會編？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:05.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:06.056000+08:00","text":"告訴我！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:06.056000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:07.056000+08:00","text":"針對這樣子的一個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:06.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:06.836000+08:00","text":"請告訴本席，你會不會編？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:06.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:08.437000+08:00","text":"我們現在目前並沒有這樣的規劃，希望委員來支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:08.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:09.138000+08:00","text":"換句話說，部長你就是不甩立法院！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:09.138000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:10.138000+08:00","text":"我們尊重立法院。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:09.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:29.390000+08:00","text":"行政院也沒有提覆議，你現在跟本席說，你不會編，我要讓社會大眾看清楚：誰要照顧農民！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:30.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:42.399000+08:00","text":"我們得到一個答案，就是立法院三讀通過，行政院沒有覆議，農業部竟然也不編，我要告訴民眾，告訴農民。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:42.399000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:43.399000+08:00","text":"然後第二個議題……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:42.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:48.483000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，我如果編了以後，只是照顧一小部分的稻農，沒辦法照顧所有的稻農。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:48.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:49.483000+08:00","text":"你如果認為是這樣，你乾脆廢掉，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:49.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:50.483000+08:00","text":"你既然認為以前有錯，就乾脆廢掉！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:50.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:51.483000+08:00","text":"這個不是有錯的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:51.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:52.483000+08:00","text":"你不能今是古錯，怎麼可以如此呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:52.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:53.483000+08:00","text":"現在的雙軌制，我們希望慢慢引導公糧……","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:53.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:54.483000+08:00","text":"慢慢的引導？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:51.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:52.125000+08:00","text":"請問你，還在聽你話繳公糧的這些人怎麼辦？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:52.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:52.666000+08:00","text":"十幾年沒有提升，這些人怎麼辦？我想……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:51:52.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:51:52.746000+08:00","text":"這些人要怎麼辦？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:17.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:17.283000+08:00","text":"你敢就把它廢掉？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:17.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:17.903000+08:00","text":"你又不敢把它廢掉。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:17.903000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:18.903000+08:00","text":"公糧價格的升高會造成產業更大的一個危機。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:17.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:18.644000+08:00","text":"你又不照顧他們，怎麼可以如此？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:18.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:20.525000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，這些人沒有功勞也有苦勞，已經好幾十年了，沒有理由不照顧他們……","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:20.525000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:21.525000+08:00","text":"我想所有的農民，我們都要照顧。","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:20.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:45.906000+08:00","text":"今天要轉什麼政策都好，但是聽你話的人，竟然這樣得不到照顧，你要怎麼辦，你對得起他們嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:45.906000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:46.906000+08:00","text":"還是希望委員能夠支持我們的做法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:46.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:48.487000+08:00","text":"你又不敢廢掉！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:49.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:52:54.588000+08:00","text":"你要做什麼政策，我們都OK，但那是未知數。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:52:54.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:53:01.270000+08:00","text":"乖乖聽你的政策，還在繳公糧的人，都十幾年了，十幾年來都沒有漲價，你的薪水都漲了好幾次，你還大剌剌的說你要照顧他，請問聽你話的人就該當得到懲罰嗎？","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:53:01.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:53:01.350000+08:00","text":"不應當！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:53:01.350000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:53:02.350000+08:00","text":"我們絕對沒有懲罰的意思。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:53:01.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:53:27.955000+08:00","text":"部長，我相信你也是照顧農民的人，本席的話你好好去聽，沒有功勞也有苦勞，乖乖聽你的，竟然還要得到懲罰，十幾年沒漲，對不起我們的農民，你自己冷靜去想！","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:53:28.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:53:33.637000+08:00","text":"希望在你重議的預算書裡面，能夠看到這筆預算，請你趕快去研議。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:53:33.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:54:18.463000+08:00","text":"接下來要跟你討論極端氣候的問題，我們現金救助的部分32.7億，累計這十年來，平均的支出是這樣子；在這樣的情況下，去年好不容易推動了農業保險，也看到你明年編列的數字在11.3億左右，但是我們看到實施的結果，看到的數字，發現我們的農保覆蓋率還不到兩成，扣掉強制納保的部分，實際上只有多少？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:54:19.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:54:20.664000+08:00","text":"只有17.6%！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:54:22.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:54:23.325000+08:00","text":"我們該怎麼辦？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:54:24.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:54:34.927000+08:00","text":"我們沒有想到，極端氣候讓我們的梨子掉在袋子裡頭不會再長，因為它的根斷了一半，我們都去現場看了。","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:54:35.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:54:40.828000+08:00","text":"每一次我們都用現金救助，我的心都痛了，農民該怎麼辦？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:54:41.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:54:48.146000+08:00","text":"現在好不容易有一個政策去做這個農業保險，為什麼執行不來？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:54:48.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:54:52.770000+08:00","text":"扣掉強制保險的部分，剩下17.6%，你要怎麼因應？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:54:52.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:00.256000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我已經要求農金署重新檢討，農業保險現在推動比較困難的地方是它的產量……","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:00.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:02.939000+08:00","text":"你要求他們重新檢討，什麼時候有因應方案？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:03.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:06.462000+08:00","text":"是你推廣不夠，人民沒有信心，還是認為我就沒事，我幹嘛要保？","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:06.462000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:07.462000+08:00","text":"這部分要怎麼辦……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:06.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:07.182000+08:00","text":"我覺得農民本身對風險的概念……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:12.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:14.368000+08:00","text":"你講的話要讓農民聽得懂，要讓農民對你有信心……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:14.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:19.271000+08:00","text":"所以我現在要求農金署跟我們所屬單位再去跟農民溝通，因為……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:19.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:23.553000+08:00","text":"不只是溝通，他們很辛苦，也都有在溝通……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:23.553000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:24.553000+08:00","text":"我覺得保單的設計如果好的話，一定會有……","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:24.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:42.598000+08:00","text":"部長，你現在講到了重點──保單的設計，如果我這塊田這塊園有得賠、可以賠，我隔壁的不能賠，誰會甘願？","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:42.598000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:51.874000+08:00","text":"這樣子不公平！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:51.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:55:55.995000+08:00","text":"所以你的給付方式，要不要去跟保險公司檢討？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:55:56.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:56:07.577000+08:00","text":"這就是我要求農金署檢討的部分，包括保單的設計、保單的理賠標準，跟保單發生理賠的這些調查，都需要重新精準地去計算……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:56:07.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:56:11.078000+08:00","text":"對，你的調查點應該要放多啊，對不對？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:56:11.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:56:12.278000+08:00","text":"這個我們已經要求農金署……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:56:12.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:56:17.739000+08:00","text":"多久時間可以告訴我們，你們討論的方向、改變的方案或是時間？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:56:19.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:56:24.971000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我要求他們一個月來跟我報告，報告完了以後，會有一個初步的成果，我再跟委員報告。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:56:24.971000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:56:25.971000+08:00","text":"好，一個月內去報告。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:56:25.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:56:28.655000+08:00","text":"最後一個議題，為了雞蛋進口，搞到送檢調、行政處分，還不知道答案是什麼！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:56:28.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:56:59.917000+08:00","text":"本席絕對不願意看到一個國家是這麼的紛亂，為了進口，搞了這麼多的事情，現在雞蛋農苦哈哈，每天剩餘多少？100萬顆！","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:01.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:03.610000+08:00","text":"你們的主管告訴我們：未來會請國防部、學校多食用雞蛋，並請養雞協會規劃雞蛋促銷活動，以協助消化雞蛋。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:03.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:03.770000+08:00","text":"這個不是我們的政策，我要……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:03.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:04.131000+08:00","text":"不是你的政策，為什麼要這麼說呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:05.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:05.571000+08:00","text":"讓我們一頭霧水，太誇張了！","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:05.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:06.792000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，寫這句話的絕對不是……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:06.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:07.673000+08:00","text":"我們的國軍、我們的學生，要以他的營養為基準來吃東西，為什麼要替你們……這樣搪塞。","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:07.673000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:30.367000+08:00","text":"所以我先說明，這個絕對不是我們的政策；學校的營養午餐一定是營養師根據學童的需求去設計的，我們不會去干涉……","quality":0.021},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:30.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:30.627000+08:00","text":"這該怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:30.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:31.508000+08:00","text":"這樣的表示要怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:31.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:53.620000+08:00","text":"你要不要澄清，說誤解了、說錯了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:54.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:57:56.843000+08:00","text":"這個部分，我們會來澄清這不是我們的政策。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:57:56.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:00.507000+08:00","text":"澄清不是你的政策，也說得不對，是不是？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:01.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:03.750000+08:00","text":"對，相對的整個雞蛋的產銷……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:04.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:04.791000+08:00","text":"請你去澄清！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:05.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:08.635000+08:00","text":"本席不希望造成家長、孩子，還有阿兵哥跟家長都恐慌，所以要請教部長，要怎麼解決？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:08.635000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:10.830667+08:00","text":"我想產銷的穩定是業者跟農業部要共同努力的目標，絕對不是農業部單方面去……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:10.830667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:13.026333+08:00","text":"農業部有什麼政策？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:13.026333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:15.222000+08:00","text":"第一個部分，就是每個禮拜公告相關產銷的資訊，我們希望業者一定……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:15.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:46.537000+08:00","text":"部長，你現在說的還是在怪罪於業者，農業部要拿出你的方案，種雞要不要控管？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:47.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:55.852000+08:00","text":"你要從源頭處理，你不從源頭，叫人家今天多生一點，明天少生一點，誰聽你的話？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:56.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:58:57.633000+08:00","text":"牠要生出來，不生怎麼辦？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:58:58.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:00.234000+08:00","text":"所以你應該從種雞去控管。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:00.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:16.344000+08:00","text":"本席跟你討論這個議題，希望我們好好來解決，你一方面要進口，一方面又剩餘那麼多，你的問題點、交集點在哪裡？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:18.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:21.667000+08:00","text":"這個蛋從哪裡來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:21.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:21.667000+08:00","text":"從種雞來！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:21.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:22.228000+08:00","text":"種雞要不要控管？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:22.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:23.288000+08:00","text":"請問，你有沒有去控管種雞？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:24.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:25.329000+08:00","text":"有沒有去輔導？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:26.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:38.171000+08:00","text":"我們有在輔導，現在種雞也有在控管；但是非常重要的一個部分，我們不大願意再用補助的方式去將牠淘汰，因為我淘汰了老母雞，他們又進了新雞，那對整個產業是沒有幫助的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:38.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:53.719000+08:00","text":"部長講到這邊，我們一個結論：以往的政策，是去除一隻老母雞，就補助多少錢，鼓勵他們去除，對不對？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:53.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:58.362000+08:00","text":"你執行了一段時間，你應該要滾動式檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:58.362000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T12:59:59.362000+08:00","text":"對，我們有在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T12:59:58.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:04.185000+08:00","text":"所以表示之前這個政策你是不成功的，你要怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:04.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:06.166000+08:00","text":"你應該要研議方案出來，好不好？好。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:06.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:08.167000+08:00","text":"你去研議方案出來啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:08.167000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:09.167000+08:00","text":"進口出了那麼多的弊端，然後現在讓我們的雞農苦哈哈，每一天生產過剩100萬顆，還要叫我們的阿兵哥吃，叫我們的學生來吃，這是不公道的，對不對？","quality":0.153},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:09.167000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:10.167000+08:00","text":"我們幫忙可以，可是不能常態化，是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:10.167000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:11.167000+08:00","text":"我知道，所以我說這個不是我們的政策，絕對不是我們的政策。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:11.167000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:12.167000+08:00","text":"不是你的政策，你的因應方案多久時間給本席？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:12.167000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:13.167000+08:00","text":"你要怎麼樣去控管這個問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:10.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:11.008000+08:00","text":"這個方案我們現在已經初步規劃得差不多，大概2個禮拜就可以提供給委員。","quality":0.355},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:11.008000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:24.716000+08:00","text":"2個禮拜提供，不要讓我們自己的雞農每公斤24.5元都虧本在賣，甚至你有沒有看到還有自助餐，它設了100項都是蛋的菜，哇！","quality":0.021},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:24.716000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:38.424000+08:00","text":"這樣子的揶揄，農業部實在是必須要好好地去努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:38.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:41.265000+08:00","text":"我還是想趁這個機會能夠呼籲我們的消費者，因為供需總是要有一個平衡，在需求端的部分希望鼓勵所有的消費者，因為雞蛋是一個很有營養價值的產品，當然在前端的部分我們會來努力。","quality":0.59},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:41.765000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:49.193571+08:00","text":"我也願意聽到你這一句話，但是我仍舊給你一個結論，也就是說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:49.493571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:00:53.207857+08:00","text":"對，生產端的部分我們會來努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:00:53.507857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:01:00.365000+08:00","text":"你鼓勵消費者要多吃，你也要控管你的供需要怎麼樣均衡……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T13:01:00.665000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:01:04.950714+08:00","text":"對，所以生產端的部分我們會來努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:01:05.250714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:01:08.393571+08:00","text":"這才是你農業部的本質啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-10-17T13:01:08.693571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:01:10.693571+08:00","text":"對，我們會來努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:01:10.993571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:01:12.136429+08:00","text":"對不對？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-17T13:01:12.436429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:01:15.865000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，2個禮拜給本席。是。謝謝。","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-17T13:01:16.165000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-17T13:01:18.450714+08:00","text":"請蔡易餘委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1108,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時47分）謝謝主席，邀請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。針對今天召委所排定的議程，我們的目的，也就是要好好的照顧農民，本席從早上到現在所聽到的，似乎您的方向跟提案委員的方向不太一樣；當然本席也可以看出你終究還是希望能夠好好的照顧農民，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是，我們實務上從民主程序來看，立法院7月16日通過公糧收購案，要求你們應綜合考量各項的成本，包括人工、肥料，包括物價指數，將公糧收購價格從26元再提升5元，以因應目前物價指數的波動，導致農民成本增加，而且十幾年都沒有提升，這是政府的政策。可是到目前為止，這個案子經立法院三讀通過，行政院也沒有覆議，10月9日的時候財政部跟主計單位來立法院報告，我們就針對民主程序提出詢問，它就一句話：尊重農業部。所以本席要請教陳部長，在行政院沒有提覆議的情況下，現在要請你們重議，你會不會編提高公糧收購價格的預算？你會不會編？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，今天……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請告訴我會不會編？"],["陳部長駿季：現階段編的是針對我們推動的「1集、2轉、3加3」的一個經費。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對本席的提問，立法院7月16日通過決議，行政院也沒有覆議，以及10月9日的報告，就本席剛剛所說的論述，請問你會不會編？也就是在行政院重議的時候，農業部會不會編提高公糧收購的價格？"],["陳部長駿季：我們目前並沒有針對5塊錢去做經費的調整，但是我們增加了「1集、2轉、3加3」的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒關係，我們一項一項講。換句話說，你不會編，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：我們目前沒有編。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：目前沒有編，未來會不會編？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：民主程序，行政院沒有覆議，你會不會編？你告訴我會不會就好！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我跟委員報告，公糧的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你告訴我，針對立法院7月16日所通過的這個決議，你會不會編？"],["陳部長駿季：我們目前沒有重新編的這樣子的一個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：換句話說，你不會編，我可以這麼解讀嗎？我可以這麼解讀嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們希望委員能夠支持現在的作法，因為我們的目的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對本席的提問……"],["陳部長駿季：我想主決議還是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們是民主國家，就照程序，各方意見不一，都可以討論，但是我們現在依民主程序，就是這樣子。請問農業部陳部長，依據立法院三讀通過的決議，送請行政院，行政院沒有提覆議，你會不會編這個預算？"],["陳部長駿季：我還是跟委員說明……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你會不會編？告訴我！"],["陳部長駿季：針對這樣子的一個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請告訴本席，你會不會編？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在目前並沒有這樣的規劃，希望委員來支持。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：換句話說，部長你就是不甩立法院！"],["陳部長駿季：我們尊重立法院。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：行政院也沒有提覆議，你現在跟本席說，你不會編，我要讓社會大眾看清楚：誰要照顧農民！我們得到一個答案，就是立法院三讀通過，行政院沒有覆議，農業部竟然也不編，我要告訴民眾，告訴農民。然後第二個議題……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，我如果編了以後，只是照顧一小部分的稻農，沒辦法照顧所有的稻農。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你如果認為是這樣，你乾脆廢掉，對不對？你既然認為以前有錯，就乾脆廢掉！"],["陳部長駿季：這個不是有錯的問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你不能今是古錯，怎麼可以如此呢？"],["陳部長駿季：現在的雙軌制，我們希望慢慢引導公糧……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：慢慢的引導？請問你，還在聽你話繳公糧的這些人怎麼辦？十幾年沒有提升，這些人怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：我想……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這些人要怎麼辦？你敢就把它廢掉？你又不敢把它廢掉。"],["陳部長駿季：公糧價格的升高會造成產業更大的一個危機。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你又不照顧他們，怎麼可以如此？我告訴你，這些人沒有功勞也有苦勞，已經好幾十年了，沒有理由不照顧他們……"],["陳部長駿季：我想所有的農民，我們都要照顧。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：今天要轉什麼政策都好，但是聽你話的人，竟然這樣得不到照顧，你要怎麼辦，你對得起他們嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：還是希望委員能夠支持我們的做法。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你又不敢廢掉！你要做什麼政策，我們都OK，但那是未知數。乖乖聽你的政策，還在繳公糧的人，都十幾年了，十幾年來都沒有漲價，你的薪水都漲了好幾次，你還大剌剌的說你要照顧他，請問聽你話的人就該當得到懲罰嗎？不應當！"],["陳部長駿季：我們絕對沒有懲罰的意思。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我相信你也是照顧農民的人，本席的話你好好去聽，沒有功勞也有苦勞，乖乖聽你的，竟然還要得到懲罰，十幾年沒漲，對不起我們的農民，你自己冷靜去想！希望在你重議的預算書裡面，能夠看到這筆預算，請你趕快去研議。","接下來要跟你討論極端氣候的問題，我們現金救助的部分32.7億，累計這十年來，平均的支出是這樣子；在這樣的情況下，去年好不容易推動了農業保險，也看到你明年編列的數字在11.3億左右，但是我們看到實施的結果，看到的數字，發現我們的農保覆蓋率還不到兩成，扣掉強制納保的部分，實際上只有多少？只有17.6%！我們該怎麼辦？我們沒有想到，極端氣候讓我們的梨子掉在袋子裡頭不會再長，因為它的根斷了一半，我們都去現場看了。每一次我們都用現金救助，我的心都痛了，農民該怎麼辦？現在好不容易有一個政策去做這個農業保險，為什麼執行不來？扣掉強制保險的部分，剩下17.6%，你要怎麼因應？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我已經要求農金署重新檢討，農業保險現在推動比較困難的地方是它的產量……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要求他們重新檢討，什麼時候有因應方案？是你推廣不夠，人民沒有信心，還是認為我就沒事，我幹嘛要保？這部分要怎麼辦……"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得農民本身對風險的概念……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你講的話要讓農民聽得懂，要讓農民對你有信心……"],["陳部長駿季：所以我現在要求農金署跟我們所屬單位再去跟農民溝通，因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不只是溝通，他們很辛苦，也都有在溝通……"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得保單的設計如果好的話，一定會有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你現在講到了重點──保單的設計，如果我這塊田這塊園有得賠、可以賠，我隔壁的不能賠，誰會甘願？這樣子不公平！所以你的給付方式，要不要去跟保險公司檢討？"],["陳部長駿季：這就是我要求農金署檢討的部分，包括保單的設計、保單的理賠標準，跟保單發生理賠的這些調查，都需要重新精準地去計算……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，你的調查點應該要放多啊，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：這個我們已經要求農金署……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間可以告訴我們，你們討論的方向、改變的方案或是時間？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我要求他們一個月來跟我報告，報告完了以後，會有一個初步的成果，我再跟委員報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，一個月內去報告。最後一個議題，為了雞蛋進口，搞到送檢調、行政處分，還不知道答案是什麼！本席絕對不願意看到一個國家是這麼的紛亂，為了進口，搞了這麼多的事情，現在雞蛋農苦哈哈，每天剩餘多少？100萬顆！你們的主管告訴我們：未來會請國防部、學校多食用雞蛋，並請養雞協會規劃雞蛋促銷活動，以協助消化雞蛋。"],["陳部長駿季：這個不是我們的政策，我要……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是你的政策，為什麼要這麼說呢？讓我們一頭霧水，太誇張了！"],["陳部長駿季：我告訴你，寫這句話的絕對不是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們的國軍、我們的學生，要以他的營養為基準來吃東西，為什麼要替你們……這樣搪塞。"],["陳部長駿季：所以我先說明，這個絕對不是我們的政策；學校的營養午餐一定是營養師根據學童的需求去設計的，我們不會去干涉……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這該怎麼辦？這樣的表示要怎麼處理？你要不要澄清，說誤解了、說錯了……"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分，我們會來澄清這不是我們的政策。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：澄清不是你的政策，也說得不對，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：對，相對的整個雞蛋的產銷……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請你去澄清！本席不希望造成家長、孩子，還有阿兵哥跟家長都恐慌，所以要請教部長，要怎麼解決？"],["陳部長駿季：我想產銷的穩定是業者跟農業部要共同努力的目標，絕對不是農業部單方面去……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：農業部有什麼政策？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分，就是每個禮拜公告相關產銷的資訊，我們希望業者一定……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你現在說的還是在怪罪於業者，農業部要拿出你的方案，種雞要不要控管？你要從源頭處理，你不從源頭，叫人家今天多生一點，明天少生一點，誰聽你的話？牠要生出來，不生怎麼辦？所以你應該從種雞去控管。本席跟你討論這個議題，希望我們好好來解決，你一方面要進口，一方面又剩餘那麼多，你的問題點、交集點在哪裡？這個蛋從哪裡來？從種雞來！種雞要不要控管？請問，你有沒有去控管種雞？有沒有去輔導？"],["陳部長駿季：我們有在輔導，現在種雞也有在控管；但是非常重要的一個部分，我們不大願意再用補助的方式去將牠淘汰，因為我淘汰了老母雞，他們又進了新雞，那對整個產業是沒有幫助的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長講到這邊，我們一個結論：以往的政策，是去除一隻老母雞，就補助多少錢，鼓勵他們去除，對不對？你執行了一段時間，你應該要滾動式檢討。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們有在……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以表示之前這個政策你是不成功的，你要怎麼辦？你應該要研議方案出來，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你去研議方案出來啦！進口出了那麼多的弊端，然後現在讓我們的雞農苦哈哈，每一天生產過剩100萬顆，還要叫我們的阿兵哥吃，叫我們的學生來吃，這是不公道的，對不對？我們幫忙可以，可是不能常態化，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：我知道，所以我說這個不是我們的政策，絕對不是我們的政策。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是你的政策，你的因應方案多久時間給本席？你要怎麼樣去控管這個問題？"],["陳部長駿季：這個方案我們現在已經初步規劃得差不多，大概2個禮拜就可以提供給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：2個禮拜提供，不要讓我們自己的雞農每公斤24.5元都虧本在賣，甚至你有沒有看到還有自助餐，它設了100項都是蛋的菜，哇！這樣子的揶揄，農業部實在是必須要好好地去努力。"],["陳部長駿季：我還是想趁這個機會能夠呼籲我們的消費者，因為供需總是要有一個平衡，在需求端的部分希望鼓勵所有的消費者，因為雞蛋是一個很有營養價值的產品，當然在前端的部分我們會來努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我也願意聽到你這一句話，但是我仍舊給你一個結論，也就是說……"],["陳部長駿季：對，生產端的部分我們會來努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你鼓勵消費者要多吃，你也要控管你的供需要怎麼樣均衡……"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以生產端的部分我們會來努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這才是你農業部的本質啊！"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會來努力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝，2個禮拜給本席。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。"],["主席：請蔡易餘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-6","speakers":["呂玉玲","張嘉郡","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","洪申翰","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳冠廷","李坤城","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","羅智強","賴士葆","涂權吉","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","麥玉珍","徐富癸","黃建賓","許宇甄","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":107,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長就「農業部對於立法院決議提高公糧收購價格之評估與執行方案」進行報告，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1138501_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}