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是這是預算案嘛 對不對 是那113年的預算案是多少113年的預算是兩千 我看 一千九百五十億"},{"start":69.686,"end":84.79,"text":"對1951億是預算案還是預算多少法定預算是2089億2089億對所以現在是要跟委會報告是說因為114年還沒有審查嘛對不對是所以他是預算案那有可能審查之後會"},{"start":85.69,"end":86.951,"text":"對農業有所支持的新增項目那基本上是應該增加"},{"start":114.532,"end":140.877,"text":"那至於應該有的到一個期限裡面需要去減少的或是不再編入的這我沒有意見但整體來講農委會變成農業部之後就是一個部就是一個大部就是台灣宣示對台灣的農業對台灣的農民的支持在組織架構的提升裡面應該從預算面會看到有更多支持農業跟支持農民的相關的積極作為才對嘛所以照理講你14年不應該低於13啊"},{"start":143.062,"end":155.405,"text":"對,我們整個都不應該低於啊我們公屋有增加83億左右,公屋有增加的部分那因為基金到時候是看各基金的用途嘛所以剛才講的就是說114年大概2034億因為時間有限啦,我沒有辦法跟部長詢問細節嘛不然我就隨便叫一個署起來問嘛你114年對照1134是怎樣的預算知道嗎?署長知道嗎?"},{"start":168.806,"end":177.654,"text":"那個公共預算多大概7億就是增加那個我現在講總統統就好了你農糧署114年度的總預算是多少錢?多少經費?總預算齁你自己的數啊多少你不知道你有吃辣啦好那113的預算案是多少?"},{"start":191.328,"end":217.655,"text":"你還沒有當署長你不清楚你馬上對照一下好不好如果你減少的減少什麼部分給委員會相關的資料給我們做參考嘛好不好我為什麼要提到這個事情啦我還特別強調變成農業部之後那整個格局對農業對農民的照顧絕對要跟以前不一樣嘛部長還沒有回答到1喔甚至還1我都還沒有問啦我是希望你們細看一下做相關的一些盤查跟做比對啦齁那第二件事情"},{"start":218.175,"end":247.241,"text":"我可以特別跟部長來討論這個天然災害救助項目的金額這個部分我之前也有新聞到貴部去然後私底下我也跟部長反映有很多的項目基本上是有蠻大的一些落差啦齁豬瓦會災害的豬瓦每一公頃4千齁蜂箱全會一個補助650蚂蜜一千塊鹵羊一隻兩千啦齁然後白色的肉雞一隻二十這個多久沒有調整了這是一件事情"},{"start":247.694,"end":273.22,"text":"那第二張我們這幾年來有很多次的去做相關的這些因應跟調整有確實都有這是我就不再贅述齁從106民進黨在住執政的時候106 109 110 11一直到112都有做相關調整而且我們的天然災救助辦法裡面有特別強調每年檢討一次的那你的每年檢討一次是年中年初年尾也不曉得然後再來你再看這一張"},{"start":274.909,"end":283.26,"text":"分野化溫格在106年的時候補助的額度是11萬5千,113年的時候5月20條了,變成11萬8千給三千塊一公頃。部長再看一下布拉伊為什麼20萬馬上跳到42萬一公頃。"},{"start":293.826,"end":301.951,"text":"上面 等一下 上面的10班 9班 麻煙就對了 3百萬一公頃 來到1百分之3的時候是變40幾萬 變4萬 麻煙就對了3百萬 變40萬 變4萬 現在慢慢不下去 20萬一公頃 變做40幾萬 為什麼分月月11萬5 讓你們調料變11萬8"},{"start":316.496,"end":324.778,"text":"有符合農民的整個漁民的整個這樣的成本然後配合這整個物價的這樣的評估去做相關調整嗎"},{"start":327.55,"end":351.251,"text":"我跟委員報告就是針對現在目前的不管是農林漁畜的這些產品我已經要求他們在11月底之前要重新去做檢討包括成本的調查因為你成本如果沒有調查在紙上作業用這樣處理就有可能發生到委員剛才提到的有一些條都非常大有一些東西幾乎沒什麼條所以我希望他們是根據真正的生產成本"},{"start":351.411,"end":351.932,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":366.168,"end":381.998,"text":"對,項目很多,我只是用幾項給部長做參考嘛,對不對?啊這照理講,怎麼會有double的這樣一個成長?啊怎麼會有不到1%的成長?部長你再看這一個,農作物的育苗作業啦齁,全島2500,然後全島變3000,這是106年對照103年。屋頂摧毀,一坪550,現在變成增加50塊,600。"},{"start":390.505,"end":409.225,"text":"這個合乎現狀嗎?還有很多時間的關係我們也不好一一細究請部長是不是要求重新盤整重新比照重新看現在的狀態應該如何補助才讓農民的損失真的是政府的德政可以減少他們這樣的一個受損"},{"start":410.026,"end":413.008,"text":"最後我再請教部長一些事情謝謝主席剛剛有委員特別提到灌區內跟灌區外我請教一下全國80萬公頃的"},{"start":436.425,"end":436.665,"text":"我們增加多少預算"},{"start":473.956,"end":488.648,"text":"我要提醒部長喔這個如果完全都沒有增加你們是交代不過去這個完全不增加然後我們未來你要去推國土計畫你就沒有辦法推阿"},{"start":489.858,"end":490.679,"text":"部長你會不會越來越辛苦"},{"start":506.494,"end":534.046,"text":"農我再度提醒了好不好這個預算真的不能減行政院有問題你要讓我們知道我們要來處理我跟委員報告就是在新增的農水路的部分大概光整個的資產防洪跟農水路的部分大概就增加了50億跟50億大概有100億的額度那裡面因為有灌區內有灌區外還有一些那個那個籌劃區裡面的東西那我想我會謝謝委員的提醒我會針對後面的該要去"},{"start":534.606,"end":559.627,"text":"執行的這經費到位以後還有實際執事的一個進度好 最後那個農機展農機展從蘇志文前縣長整個催生一直到現在辦了18年農糧署扮演什麼角色這個可不可以請農長署署長來說明我們給予那個活動的補助好 那所有我們叫做指導單位對不對對"},{"start":562.102,"end":574.662,"text":"去年辦個農機展燒了20多台汽車今年會不會再發生指導單位要不要見到監督職者整個場地要不要去事先了解"},{"start":576.884,"end":595.183,"text":"我跟委員報告就是過往也許我們在補助的時候只是提供經費而已但是實際上的規劃沒有參與協助但是我覺得這是也是不對的啦就是說當你經費下去就是希望活動做得好那相對的場地的規劃也要有一個完善的一個特別是在安全上面的一個規劃"},{"start":596.064,"end":624.516,"text":"那之前我想有很多地方辦大型活動都會去參與規劃那我這邊後續有邀請農政署其實在規劃的時候不能只出錢啊也要實際的去協助對部長我只是提醒任何一筆從農業部補助到地方政府的只要錢下去有補助的農業部都有一定的責任是都有一定的責任是那個環部看板後面絕對會寫指導單位寫補助單位但是有的很多補助下去也都沒有看到你們任何單位是是要卸責嗎"},{"start":626.486,"end":630.217,"text":"請部長詳查 太多的案例謝謝 謝謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1462,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（13時51分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["劉委員建國：部長好。部長辛苦，可能未來會越辛苦。我請教一下，農業部114年度的總預算案，總total含所有基金是多少經費？113年的總預算案又是多少？112年又是多少？請部長簡單說明。"],["陳部長駿季：我們114年編列的是1,692億。"],["劉委員建國：含所有基金嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：基金是747億。"],["劉委員建國：所以加起來是多少？"],["陳部長駿季：但是有一部分是撥補的部分，所以加起來可動支的大概是2,034億。"],["劉委員建國：2,034億，這是預算案對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["劉委員建國：那113年的預算案是多少？"],["陳部長駿季：113年的預算是1,951億。"],["劉委員建國：是預算案？還是預算？"],["陳部長駿季：法定預算是2,089億。"],["劉委員建國：2,089億？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["劉委員建國：所以你現在要跟委員會報告，是因為114年還沒有審查對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["劉委員建國：所以它是預算案，那有可能審查之後會低於113年度，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：有可能。"],["劉委員建國：為什麼有可能？"],["陳部長駿季：因為計畫有一部分是新增的，有一部分是……"],["劉委員建國：既然是新增，就是會增加預算出來，為什麼還會低於113年度？"],["陳部長駿季：但是相對有些預算是期程結束了，結束以後有一些新增的。"],["劉委員建國：我要表達的是，你當了這個部長之後，照理講應該會有一些對農民有幫助，對農業有所支持的新增項目。基本上是應該增加，至於應該到一個期限需要減少或是不再編列的這我沒有意見。但整體來講，農委會變成農業部之後就是一個大部，宣示對臺灣的農業、對臺灣農民的支持，在組織架構的提升裡面，應該從預算面會看到有更多支持農業，跟支持農民的相關的積極作為才對嘛！所以照理講，114年不應該低於113啊！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["劉委員建國：不管怎麼樣都不應該低於啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我們公務有增加83億左右，因為基金到時候是看各基金的用途，所以剛才講的就是114年大概2,034億……"],["劉委員建國：因為時間有限，我沒有辦法跟部長詢問細節，不然我就隨便叫一個署起來問。農糧署114年對照113年是怎樣的預算知道嗎？署長知道嗎？"],["姚署長士源：公務預算大概多7億，就是增加……"],["劉委員建國：我現在講總total就好了，農糧署114年度的總預算是多少經費？你自己的署有多少錢你不知道？"],["姚署長士源：80億左右。"],["劉委員建國：好，那113年的預算案是多少，你還沒有當署長你不清楚，你馬上對照一下好不好？如果減少了，減少什麼部分，給委員會相關的資料，給我們做參考好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["劉委員建國：我為什麼要提到這個事情，我還特別強調，變成農業部之後，整個格局，對農業、對農民的照顧，絕對要跟以前不一樣嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["劉委員建國：部長還沒有回答到112年，甚至於111年我都還沒有問啦！我希望你們細看一下，做相關的一些盤查跟比對。第二件事情，我要特別跟部長討論天然災害救助項目的金額，這個部分我之前也有行文到貴部去，私底下我也跟部長反映，有很多的項目，基本上是有滿大的一些落差。幼稻米每公頃救助金額4,000元、蜂箱全毀一個補助650元、肉豬1,000元、乳羊一隻2,000元，然後白色的肉雞一隻20元，這個多久沒有調整了？這是一件事情。","第二，我們這幾年來，有很多次去做相關的因應跟調整，有！確實都有，我就不再贅述。從106年民進黨再度執政之後，106、109、110、111，一直到112都有做相關調整。而且我們的天然災害救助辦法裡有特別強調每年檢討一次，那你的每年檢討一次是年中？年初？年尾？也不曉得。","再來你再看這一張，文蛤在106年的時候，補助的額度是11萬5,000，113年5月20日的時候變成11萬8,000，一公頃增加3,000元。部長再看一下午仔魚，為什麼20萬馬上跳到一公頃42萬？上面的石斑一公頃38萬，113年變42萬，增加4萬；鰻魚從36萬變40萬，增加4萬。為什麼午仔魚一公頃20萬一下變成42萬？為什麼文蛤11萬5,000讓你們調到變11萬8,000？有符合漁民的成本，然後配合整個物價的評估去做相關調整嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，針對現在不管是農林漁畜的這些產品，我已經要求他們在11月底之前要重新去做檢討，包括成本的調查。因為成本如果沒有調查，在紙上作業這樣處理，就有可能發生委員剛才提到的，有一些調得非常大，有些東西幾乎沒什麼調。所以我希望他們是根據真正的生產成本，11月底之前我們會去調整，明年1月就會重新公告新的制度。以後我們會把這個法納入，每年的1月間會公告年度天然災害救助的標準。"],["劉委員建國：對，項目很多，我只是用幾項給部長做參考。"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解。"],["劉委員建國：照理講怎麼會有double這樣的成長？怎麼會有不到1%的成長？部長再看這一個，農作物的育苗作業，全倒2,500變3,000，這是106年對照113年，屋頂吹毀一坪550，現在增加50塊，變成600。這個合乎現狀嗎？還有很多，時間的關係，我沒辦法一一細究，請部長是不是要求重新盤整、重新比照，重新看現在的狀態，應該如何補助農民的損失，真的是政府的德政，可以減少他們的受損。"],["陳部長駿季：我想很明確的謝謝委員的關心，我在昨天的擴大專案會議裡面就有提出來，因為昨天也在檢討那些多年期品項的週期。我也特別要求他們11月底之前，就要把新的成本調查出來，然後去設計一個新的救助金額。"],["劉委員建國：好，最後我再請教部長一件事情，謝謝主席。剛剛有委員特別提到灌區內跟灌區外，我請教一下，全國80萬公頃的自然人農地，40%是灌區內，以前就是17個農田水利會，現在的農田水利署。我們在做整個更新、建置、修補、疏浚，現在另外的40萬公頃，有了農田水利署之後，我們就必須概括承受對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["劉委員建國：一樣是農民，不分灌區內跟灌區外嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["劉委員建國：好，我們今年114年，針對灌區外，對照113年，我們增加多少預算？"],["陳部長駿季：我們可不可以後會再提供給委員？"],["劉委員建國：我要提醒部長，這個如果完全都沒有增加，你們是交代不過去。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["劉委員建國：這個完全不增加，未來你要去推國土計畫，你就沒有辦法推。"],["陳部長駿季：知道。"],["劉委員建國：這個如果到現在，農委會變成農業部的時候，我們還對這一塊沒有辦法用有效快速的經費，到位的去協助相關的基礎建設去做建置。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["劉委員建國：部長你會不會越來越辛苦？容我再度提醒，這個預算真的不能減。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒。"],["劉委員建國：這個預算真的不能減，行政院有問題，你要讓我們知道，我們要來處理。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，在新增農水路部分，光是治山防洪和農水路大概就分別增加了50億跟50億，大概有100億的額度，裡面因為有灌區內、有灌區外，還有一些重劃區裡面的東西。謝謝委員的提醒，我會針對後面該要去執行的經費到位以後，還有實際實施的進度。"],["劉委員建國：最後就是農機展，從蘇治芬前縣長催生一直到現在，辦了18年，農糧署扮演什麼角色？"],["陳部長駿季：這個可不可以請農糧署署長來說明？"],["姚署長士源：我們給予活動補助。"],["劉委員建國：好，所以叫做指導單位，對不對？"],["姚署長士源：對。"],["劉委員建國：去年辦個農機展燒了二十多台汽車，今年會不會再發生？指導單位要不要盡到監督之責？整個場地要不要去事先了解？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，過往也許我們在補助的時候只是提供經費而已，但是實際上的規劃沒有參與協助，我覺得這也是不對的！經費下去就是希望活動做得好，相對的場地也要有一個完善的規劃，特別是在安全上面的規劃。我想之前很多地方辦大型活動前都會去參與規劃，我這邊後續也會要求農糧署，在規劃的時候不能只出錢，也要實際的去協助。"],["劉委員建國：對，部長，我只是提醒，任何一筆從農業部補助到地方政府的，只要錢下去、有補助的，農業部都有一定的責任。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["劉委員建國：都有一定的責任！那個帆布看板後面絕對會寫指導單位、寫補助單位，但是有的很多補助下去也都沒有看到你們任何單位，是要卸責嗎？請部長詳查！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["劉委員建國：有太多的案例，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：請羅明才、羅明才、羅明才委員不在。","請王育敏、王育敏、王育敏委員不在。","請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":192,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-6","speakers":["呂玉玲","張嘉郡","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","洪申翰","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳冠廷","李坤城","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","羅智強","賴士葆","涂權吉","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","麥玉珍","徐富癸","黃建賓","許宇甄","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":107,"meetingDate":["2024-10-17"],"gazette_id":"1138501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長就「農業部對於立法院決議提高公糧收購價格之評估與執行方案」進行報告，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1138501_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}