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我們陳部長他是台中人,所以在相關建設的考量上面就沒有對於彰化未來的規劃以及發展。"},{"start":446.616,"end":463.933,"text":"我們剛剛部長說了20它是一個科學園區啊,並不是交通部在主管。我知道,我是說交通的部分啊。那因為過去李孟彥部長他來我們彰化考察的時候,他的確說了20中科的用水用電。"},{"start":465.014,"end":467.656,"text":"的地方要提出或是委員提出"},{"start":481.144,"end":483.385,"text":"行政院沒改組嗎?是不是?"},{"start":483.385,"end":485.405,"text":"行政院現在沒有改組嗎?"},{"start":485.405,"end":502.289,"text":"只有換了閣員啦!或是地方政府提出他有什麼樣的需求,我們會進行評估可行性怎麼樣做,以及配合整個周遭的公共建設設施怎麼來執行。這個是整套的,而不是說,我要給你方便,那就就這麼方便,不是這樣子的事情。"},{"start":502.369,"end":530.063,"text":"不是,當然是地方政府,地方政府已經提出申請了,彰化縣政府已經提出申請了,現在就是希望我們行政院能夠大力的支持嘛,是不是?那我們當然希望,不只在交通建設方面,不只在公共工程的其他的協助上面,都可以大力支持彰化縣的這個經濟發展啊,是不是?"},{"start":530.979,"end":532.68,"text":"再來就是我們今年是不是對於高鐵的用電有給予補助?"},{"start":560.899,"end":583.827,"text":"高鐵他應該沒有特別給補助沒有給補助嗎?他的用電有沒有漲價?跟大家都一樣所以他用電是有漲的嗎?是有漲的他用電有漲嗎?有,他有漲那所以高鐵的票價有可能要漲價嗎?報告委員,目前高鐵沒有在討論票價調漲的問題所以沒有?不會漲價?目前還沒有討論到這個"},{"start":587.25,"end":611.619,"text":"所以你的意思是高鐵的票價不會漲價嗎目前沒有討論漲價所以應該沒有漲價這個議題這是第一點那第二點我有提醒高鐵公司在他們營運的狀況還可以的狀況底下要考慮到自己要擔負這個公共運輸大家通勤的這個責任因為運輸本來就是一個通勤上面的責任必須要負起"},{"start":612.841,"end":617.303,"text":"高鐵票價會不會漲價?不會漲價嗎?所以你承諾未來不會漲價?我很難承諾多久的未來我不曉得,還是委員您定義一下多久?"},{"start":637.464,"end":664.813,"text":"目前不會因為電價的調漲而漲價,我能跟您這樣說。那未來票價會不會漲?未來,至少。今年票價會不會漲?你要定義嘛,今年票價會不會漲?今年不會漲。那明年會不會漲?你現在是保證今年不會漲?那明年會不會漲?我要看高鐵公司有沒有提出來要漲價的方案,如果他有提出來我們再來討論。但目前為止高鐵公司並沒有提出漲價的方案。"},{"start":666.809,"end":673.275,"text":"我們希望未來能不能再彰化增加再增加班次呢?"},{"start":674.522,"end":696.466,"text":"因為我看到現在其實彰化的高鐵站已經越來越多人搭乘了 在這樣的情況下過去李部長他今年來的時候有在田中站增加了高鐵的班次 未來我們是不是可以繼續增加高鐵的班次呢"},{"start":696.806,"end":711.691,"text":"高鐵的班次因為我們有一個班次的整體調整所以全國各地其實都有增加班次那彰化如果委員希望再多增加一些我來去跟高鐵公司來商量這件事看他們可不可以研議一下看在彰化站我們再來增加班次"},{"start":712.278,"end":734.454,"text":"我希望我們政府的這個施政不應該要分縣市我們應該共同的協助就是所有各縣市那如果在於我們20中科的這個用水用電方面因為我們知道現在AI的需求很旺盛嘛"},{"start":734.974,"end":735.254,"text":"是 沒錯"},{"start":751.074,"end":765.746,"text":"那是不是能請卓院長可以大力的促成我們解除二齡中科用水用電的限制的這個問題呢?跟委員報告第一件事情您剛剛說的跟我的想法完全一致我們就是均衡台灣"},{"start":766.747,"end":781.324,"text":"各個族群均衡,各個地域均衡,各個產業均衡。你講的一致是說均衡台灣的部分一致,但是二齡中科的用水用電的限制放寬沒有一致是不是?高鐵的部分它也是個營運的公司,它如果認為市場需要"},{"start":782.065,"end":784.406,"text":"三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":801.472,"end":808.157,"text":"所以,就是說,你認為未來20中科的用水用電是可以開放的,是不是?要看是什麼樣的廠商,多少廠商要來,他能夠提供多少。"},{"start":831.297,"end":858.33,"text":"我們不夠用什麼方式來解決所以你認為二零中科的這個用水用電是可以開放的是不是我現在不敢這麼認為我看實際的需要有多少實際的需要我不知道實際有多少廠商要來他會用電用水用多少你為什麼會剛才就說可以啊只要提出申請你就大力協助嗎就可以嗎只要提出申請你就大力協助嗎"},{"start":859.551,"end":862.573,"text":"我希望我希望在你下台前我們可以看到你大力的協助我們彰化縣用水用電以及我們交通建設好不好"},{"start":881.144,"end":881.424,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝院長好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":216,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（15時19分）謝謝江副院長。我想要請卓院長、陳部長，還有公共工程的陳主委。"],["主席：好，卓院長、陳部長及陳主委，請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：卓院長好。我想請問一下陳主委，在宜蘭的鐵路高架化的時候，你有提到他們的總預算是501.29億，然後中央補助395.57億，地方是105.72億，可是因為它的財力分級是三到五級中間，所以你降低了宜蘭的自籌款，是不是？你能不能說明一下？"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，這個是關於土地取得的部分，用地取得的部分因為將來是屬於國營臺灣鐵路公司所有，所以我們評估用地由中央來負擔。另外就是調度機場，機場將來也是臺灣鐵路公司……"],["謝委員衣鳯：調度？我之前……"],["陳主任委員金德：就是那個調度場，調度場這部分也是跟用地取得一樣，是由中央來負擔。除此之外，因為它的財政等級是第四級，所以是按照非自償性的比例來分配。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這是我們彰化市的鐵路高架，你看我們的用地費用是26.17億，我們非自償性的經費是48.3億，那可以降低多少？"],["陳主任委員金德：非自償性是因為中央、地方按照財政等級來分配。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，如果基於你剛才說的用地，因為未來這些都是屬於臺鐵的，那我們可以……"],["陳主任委員金德：因為彰化這個部分的計畫還在審議當中，是不是請部長來說明？"],["陳部長世凱：這個目前在做綜合規劃的過程當中，目前的進度大概是在綜合規劃。"],["謝委員衣鳯：在綜合規劃過程當中，那你能不能說呢？你能不能說一下呢？基地費可以省多少？這不能夠……"],["陳部長世凱：你是說費用嗎？"],["謝委員衣鳯：陳主委，不能因為你是宜蘭縣民，你就對宜蘭的事情特別的重視；也不能因為陳部長是臺中市民、你不是彰化人，你就對我們彰化都不重視，那我們彰化的部分呢？"],["陳部長世凱：這個都相當重視啦！目前正在綜合規劃，比例的部分其實之前有談到一定的比例，我相信委員也應該很清楚，大概就是照那個下去走，如果還有問題的話，其實我們可以再召開專案會議來討論。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為我們的財政等級跟宜蘭一樣，都是第四級，在這個情況下，為什麼會有這樣子的差別？"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，因為宜蘭的鐵路高架已經完成環評，已經進入細部設計，所以它馬上就要提綜合規劃，那……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以如果等到完成環評，然後進入綜合規劃的時候……"],["陳主任委員金德：這將來另案再協商。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那可以比照宜蘭的方式嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：這個可以另案協商，到時候我們會再來協商。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你沒有承諾啊！陳部長，你沒有承諾啊！"],["陳部長世凱：每一個縣市的狀況不一樣。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你能不能比照宜蘭的部分？"],["陳部長世凱：我們會來協商。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是可以比照宜蘭的部分？"],["陳部長世凱：我們會來協商，但是現在宜蘭也還沒定案。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，可是剛才陳主委說了，他已經協助了嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：有協助但還沒定案。"],["謝委員衣鳯：未來如果完成環評，可以比照嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：大家可以專案來協商啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：可不可以比照？"],["陳部長世凱：專案協商要看縣政府所提出的需求是什麼。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有，今年李孟諺部長來到彰化，就是看76線相關延伸案的時候，他提到對於未來二林中科的用水、用電是朝著一個開放的方向，卓院長，該不會現在交通部長換人了，是不是整個規劃就會改變？"],["卓院長榮泰：政府的政策，應該是求其穩定，部長更換之後，原來好的政策一定是繼續進行，如果原來還在討論當中的，當然會由新部長加入個人對專業上的考量或是團隊的考量……"],["謝委員衣鳯：他當初說，用水、用電會朝著開放的方向……"],["卓院長榮泰：你所謂開放是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：可以爭取讓更多高科技AI的相關產業進到二林中科，因為現在中科它的使用沒有超過一半，未來我們經過了76線的延伸，它是怎麼樣子？銜接1號到3號，以及台61線從北到彰化這裡都已經通車了，是不是？如果在這樣子的情況下，造成這邊路網的方便，是不是可以把二林中科的用水、用電也都放寬限制呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前各個地方縣市的首長都很積極在招商，尤其歡迎高科技，甚至是國際大廠去設廠，但必須考慮到地區所在縣市或是周遭鄰近地區整個能源的供應能不能配得上所有快速的發展。"],["謝委員衣鳯：彰化縣是離岸風電主要的風場，也提供了非常多綠能相關的，這個部分的確對彰化縣民來說，如果沒有高科技，而高科技最需要的綠電都是由彰化來提供的時候，為什麼要獨厚其他的縣市？為什麼行政院都沒有考慮到彰化縣呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院沒有不考慮到哪一個縣市，只要是看……"],["謝委員衣鳯：行政院為什麼沒有考慮到彰化縣呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有不考慮到哪一個縣市，只要地方上能夠提出充裕的土地，經過合理的開發，也有充裕的水源，在能源的供應上也不會造成太大的負擔或是困擾，都應該全力來……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是因為換了部長？過去……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有，絕對不會……"],["謝委員衣鳯：過去的李孟諺部長就是彰化人……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，您說的二林園區是科學園區，跟交通部沒有關係。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但他說的時候，對於彰化就特別地友善，現在因為陳部長是臺中人，所以在相關建設的考量上面就沒有對彰化未來的規劃以及發展給予協助。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，剛剛部長說了，二林是一個科學園區，並不是交通部主管的。"],["陳部長世凱：跟交通部沒有關係。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道，我是說交通的部分。因為過去李孟諺部長來我們彰化考察的時候，他的確說了，二林中科的用水、用電未來會大幅度地給予協助，為什麼現在已經改變了？所以我現在才來問卓院長，你們現在都站在上面，我就直接問你為什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：地方要提出或是委員能夠提出……"],["謝委員衣鳯：行政院沒改組，是不是？行政院現在沒有改組，只是換了閣員嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員提出或是地方政府提出有什麼樣的需求，我們會進行評估可行性怎麼樣做，以及配合整個週遭的公共建設設施怎麼來執行。這個是整套的，而不是要我給你方便，然後就這麼方便，不是這樣子的事情，到底地方需要什麼東西要告訴我們。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是，當然是地方政府已經提出申請了，彰化縣政府已經提出申請……"],["卓院長榮泰：那已經在程序當中了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：現在就是希望行政院能夠大力地支持，是不是？我們當然希望不只在交通建設方面，不只在公共工程的其他協助上面，都可以大力支持彰化縣的經濟發展，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們絕對願意這麼做，所以我們訂了很多的計畫，也編列了相當的預算，未來我們還有區域性的發展，從北北基、桃竹苗到中彰投到嘉南，以及到高高屏到花東，都有整套的計畫在做。我們希望大家一起來把這個計畫的每個地區、區域都把它完整起來。"],["謝委員衣鳯：再來，我們今年是不是對高鐵的用電有給予補助？"],["卓院長榮泰：高鐵它……"],["陳部長世凱：應該沒有特別給補助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：沒有給予補助嗎？它的用電有沒有漲價？"],["陳部長世凱：跟大家都一樣。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以它的用電是有漲的嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：是有漲的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：它用電有漲嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：有，它有漲。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以高鐵的票價有可能要漲價嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，目前高鐵沒有在討論票價調漲的問題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以不會漲價？"],["陳部長世凱：目前還沒有討論到這個。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你的意思是高鐵的票價不會漲價嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：目前沒有討論漲價，所以應該沒有漲價這個議題，這是第一點；第二點，我有提醒高鐵公司，在他們營運狀況還可以的狀況底下，自己要考慮到擔負公共運輸讓大家通勤的責任，因為運輸本來就必須負起通勤上面的責任。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是，我是在請教部長，高鐵票價會不會漲價？"],["陳部長世凱：目前就是沒有這個案子，所以沒有討論漲價這件事。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不會漲價嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：現在不會漲價。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你承諾未來不會漲價？"],["陳部長世凱：未來是多久的未來，這個我……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是你承諾未來不會漲價？"],["陳部長世凱：我很難承諾，多久的未來我不曉得，還是委員您定義一下多久的未來。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對啊！我現在在問你啊！你是不是承諾今年？"],["陳部長世凱：目前不會因為電價的調漲而漲價，我能跟您這樣說。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那未來票價會不會漲？"],["陳部長世凱：至少……"],["謝委員衣鳯：今年的票價會不會漲……"],["陳部長世凱：今年不會漲、今年不會漲。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要定義嘛！今年的票價會不會漲？"],["陳部長世凱：今年不會漲、今年不會漲。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那明年會不會漲？"],["陳部長世凱：明年……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你現在是保證今年不會漲，那明年會不會漲？"],["陳部長世凱：我要看高鐵公司有沒有提出來要漲價的方案，如果它有提出來，我們再來討論，但目前為止高鐵公司並沒有提出漲價的方案。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們希望未來能不能在彰化再增加班次呢？因為我看到現在其實彰化的高鐵站已經有越來越多人搭乘了，在這樣的情況下，李部長今年來的時候，有在田中站增加了高鐵的班次，未來我們是不是可以繼續增加高鐵的班次呢？"],["陳部長世凱：高鐵的班次，因為我們有一個班次的整體調整，所以全國各地其實都有增加班次，至於彰化，如果委員希望再多增加一些，我來跟高鐵公司商量這件事，看他們可不可以研議一下在彰化站再來增加班次。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我希望我們政府的施政不應該分縣市，我們應該共同的協助所有各縣市。如果談到我們二林中科的用水用電方面，因為我們知道現在AI的需求很旺盛，很多廠商都希望設廠，如果解除限制，再加上交通的方便，身為交通部長，不就是為了讓我們交通可以便利，讓我們的經濟可以發展，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那是不是請卓院長可以大力的促成我們解除二林中科用水用電的限制呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，第一件事情，您剛剛說的跟我的想法完全一致，我們就是均衡臺灣，各個族群均衡，各個地域均衡，各個產業均衡……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你講的一致是均衡臺灣的部分一致，但是二林中科用水用電的限制放寬沒有一致，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。第二個，高鐵也是一個營運的公司，它如果認為市場需要，它的人力、車輛、班次的調配可以，它一定會往最可以去獲得盈利、利潤的方向走，這是讓它公司去做專業上的評估。","至於用水用電，我剛剛說到了，地方政府要衡量，自己要招商的時候，要考慮到他們那裡的能源能力、水電的能力、土地的能力，如果提出了合理的計畫到中央，如果是科學園區，國科會會處理，甚至未來有需要國發會統一來做衡量的話，我們不會有縣市的分別，這個請委員放心。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你認為未來二林中科的用水用電是可以開放的，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：要看是什麼樣的廠商、多少廠商要來，它能夠提供多少，如果我們不夠，用什麼方式來解決，這個要……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你認為二林中科的用水用電是可以開放的，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我現在不敢這麼認為，我要看實際的需要有多少……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你剛才就說可以啊……"],["卓院長榮泰：實際的需要我不知道……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你剛才就說可以，怎麼現在又說不行？"],["卓院長榮泰：實際有多少廠商要來，它會用電用水用多少……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你剛才就說可以啊！只要提出申請，你就大力協助……"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！我說地方要提出啊……"],["謝委員衣鳯：就可以嘛！是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：提出以後，我們……"],["謝委員衣鳯：只要提出申請，你就大力協助嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果提出一個合理的規劃，而且各方面的條件都符合，我們不會有縣市的考量，一定會全力跟地方合作來開發……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我希望在你下臺前，我們可以看到你大力的協助我們彰化縣的用水用電以及交通建設，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：你剛剛說的第一個條件，我可能不能跟你講時間。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我當然知道，我就是希望在你下臺前，在彰化的交通建設、在我們的用水用電，都可以獲得行政院的協助，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：你快點讓我下臺，我就快點承諾你。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你是希望下臺的，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果能夠讓政局穩定的話。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝謝委員，謝謝卓院長。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是臺北市立大學城市發展學系的同學，我們在此歡迎你們來立法院參訪。","報告院會，賴惠員委員、陳冠廷委員之質詢，均以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","郭國文","張嘉郡","柯志恩","林憶君","廖先翔","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","賴惠員","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","黃建賓","陳超明","吳琪銘","陳秀寳","徐巧芯","林倩綺","邱若華"],"page_start":44,"meetingDate":["2024-10-18"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00002","1138101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}