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民主同盟世界的什麼公開北京喔這個很模糊喔這個不像說比如說CPTPP比如說APEC這是國際組織我們跟美國關係這麼好哪一個國際組織美國幫助我們加入你告訴我"},{"start":536.693,"end":556.758,"text":"其實我們跟美國之間就有很多多邊的這些交流合作的架構啊架構不算啦 組織啊 正式的組織我們希望台灣人你任何做問卷台灣人最需要的就是說我們要有國際的空間因為我們實在太辛苦了老共不斷打壓 幾十年來都打壓不是只有今天才打壓 一直打壓我們當然沒有人疏忽 大家都不疏忽但是我們就要問你國際主義有哪一些美國幫助我們加入 有沒有"},{"start":567.443,"end":576.141,"text":"其實美國都有在幫我們這個不管是協助或者是說很多"},{"start":577.606,"end":582.03,"text":"這個我時間到了不願意比如說WHA也沒有啊CPTPP也沒有啊你講到現在講到這樣2758號也沒有去提案嘴巴講嘴巴講打嘴砲而已啊都沒有實質的其實我們感謝他們為台灣不管是發聲或者是說要講給你聽有什麼用就國際組織要再組織沒有關係比如說WHA他提案啊他還沒有提案"},{"start":607.15,"end":633.035,"text":"他去提案,輸了,我們覺得感激,結果都不是啊,嘴巴講說支持喔支持喔,結果實際上都沒有幫忙啊,這個東西,人家覺得說我們買這麼多的一個武器,都天然攻擊的,我講真實組織,在外面講都不好啦,真實組織裡面講的才有用啦,APEC到現在為止,美國沒有幫我們啊,你剛剛講說可能離心力,為什麼沒辦法懲戒人?"},{"start":634.455,"end":636.616,"text":"這個人選現在還沒有對外宣佈美國要幫忙啊 要幫忙才真的啊"},{"start":663.971,"end":664.432,"text":"好謝謝委員謝謝賴司保委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":809,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（12時29分）謝謝主席，有請外交部林部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["賴委員士葆：辛苦了，部長。"],["林部長佳龍：不會，委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：我們看川普最近說話了，他大概因為跟Harris非常接近，可能很焦慮，但是無意中他也露出底牌了，他說如果中國大陸入侵臺灣，課關稅150到200%，這個是不是已經秀出底牌了？他說不會出兵了。再進一步追問，如果大陸打臺灣，不會出兵，他說，因為習近平尊重我，他認識我。你要不要對這個話回應一下？從原來川普在5月底的時候，那時候是打這個牌，也是為了選舉，他說如果大陸打臺灣，他要轟炸北京，怎麼事隔半年左右就縮回去了？通通沒有了，沒有用兵的東西，通通沒有！只有說：我要課他關稅，讓人家覺得虎頭蛇尾，這個東西你要不要評論一下？"],["林部長佳龍：對於美國在選舉期間候選人的發言，我們都很密切關注，但是我們也不予評論，不過各種選後可能的發展，我們也是做好因應的準備。"],["賴委員士葆：你不評論，可以不評論，但是你總是要告訴我們，今天在國會殿堂，你要告訴我們，你要回答我問題……"],["林部長佳龍：所以我剛剛講說有做好因應的準備。"],["賴委員士葆：他原來說要轟炸北京，現在沒有了！沒有北京、沒有上海、沒有廈門，通通都沒有，只有這個課關稅，就是經濟制裁，完全走向對烏克蘭的路，對烏克蘭，也不敢對俄羅斯怎麼樣啊，到目前為止也不敢去打俄羅斯，只有一直給烏克蘭武器、捐助、制裁俄羅斯，一模一樣！他現在對臺灣的路，川普現在對臺灣的路就是跟美國對烏克蘭，幾乎如出一轍，我這樣講對嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我不好意思跟您講不對，但是不太一樣。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼地方不一樣？願聞其詳，說來給我們聽聽，什麼地方不一樣？什麼地方不一樣？你告訴我。"],["林部長佳龍：其實美國的對中對臺的政策，有他的法律依據或是說長期的一個發展……"],["賴委員士葆：烏克蘭更有，說要給烏克蘭加入NATO，加入北約，更有！臺灣還沒有一個treaty，它有一個treaty，一個NATO就可以鼓勵、讓它加入北約，怎麼沒有呢？再來，其他呢？沒有了？只有這個？"],["林部長佳龍：因為他的領導風格，其實我們跟共和黨、民主黨的總統在過去這八年來都有很好的互動嘛，至於說選舉期間有一些怎麼樣或他發言的，我們當然會關注，但是我們不予評論，但會做好因應的準備。"],["賴委員士葆：你的意思就是說，這個是選舉語言，不要理他？"],["林部長佳龍：不是、不是，選舉期間的語言，我們不予評論，但是我們會密切的關注，做好因應的準備。"],["賴委員士葆：這個會兌現喔！這是政見喔！他對大陸要進入美國的item要課稅，加到60%，如果打臺灣要加到150%到200%，這個會兌現的喔，部長，這不是你說選舉語言，這是政見，不是選舉語言。"],["林部長佳龍：不是，我剛講是說我不予評論，不代表他選舉語言沒有效。"],["賴委員士葆：他是政見。"],["林部長佳龍：政見有可能變政策。"],["賴委員士葆：這是他的政見，這不能這樣子小看他，這個……"],["林部長佳龍：不能小看。"],["賴委員士葆：對不對？所以就清楚啊，這就已經告訴我們，他不會對臺灣……不會出兵幫臺灣嘛！只有對中國大陸經濟制裁，跟制裁俄羅斯一模一樣，如出一轍。"],["林部長佳龍：委員，其實你不能替川普回答這個問題，因為他要保持一個他的模糊，比較有談判的籌碼。"],["賴委員士葆：你這樣講模糊，奇怪啊……"],["林部長佳龍：但是他也講過剛剛委員講的包括轟炸北京，所以我意思是說，他們在選舉期間當然有基於他要去訴求選民，我們都要很關注而且做好因應的準備，但是我們不宜過度去介入他們這些選舉的評論。"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你是不是比較喜歡聽到他轟炸北京的言論？"],["林部長佳龍：我沒有……不予置評這個部分。"],["賴委員士葆：轟炸北京你們多爽，不是這樣嗎？沒有，沒有感覺？"],["林部長佳龍：我就是先不予置評，因為這個……"],["賴委員士葆：現在說一堆啦，我們來看看蔡英文總統一上任以後，川普有打了電話，跟他通了電話，現在請問外交部有沒有準備不管誰當選，川普或是Harris當選，我們都想辦法讓他跟我們的賴總統通電話，有沒有？有沒有做這個準備，請問你？"],["林部長佳龍：我們在研擬未來的趨勢跟可能的劇本的時候，這些都是我們必須要有所……"],["賴委員士葆：就是不能排除啦！"],["林部長佳龍：不能排除。"],["賴委員士葆：就是說有可能有啦，有可能！我們再看下一頁，剛才有委員提到其實蔡英文總統就任的時候，巴拿馬總統瓦雷拉3月就函邀了，因為那時候已經知道結果了嘛！巴拉圭總統卡提斯520面邀，6月就出訪了，現在已經10月快11月了，結果賴總統什麼都沒有，這個會不會……"],["林部長佳龍：邀訪也是有啦！友邦對我們的邀訪都是有的。"],["賴委員士葆：那怎麼他沒有去……"],["林部長佳龍：看什麼時間適合會綜合去考量嘛！"],["賴委員士葆：你要不要講一下哪幾國邀訪？"],["林部長佳龍：有就是了。"],["賴委員士葆：你要講啊，在這裡要講啊，在國會殿堂要講啊！你給我們振奮人心一下啊！有哪幾國？"],["林部長佳龍：他們都有表達歡迎啦！而且有些是親自跟我們賴總統邀訪，什麼時候適合，當然這個都會列入評估。"],["賴委員士葆：你既然講了，那就講一個、兩個也可以啊！哪一國？我都不太相信，你跟我講一下，堵住我的嘴啊！"],["林部長佳龍：應該沒有國家說沒有的啦，至於說什麼時候……"],["賴委員士葆：哪個國家有邀訪？是不是可以過境美國？這個比較重要啊！"],["林部長佳龍：這個還沒有決定，等決定了之後，總統府會對外有所……"],["賴委員士葆：言外之意就是美國不答應賴清德過境美國，就是這樣！"],["林部長佳龍：不會啦！"],["賴委員士葆：不會的話，為什麼不趕快公布呢？振奮人心一下啊！"],["林部長佳龍：適當的時候就會公布啦。"],["賴委員士葆：因為現在大家都認為是疑賴論啊！"],["林部長佳龍：這不用疑啦……"],["賴委員士葆：美國依賴論喔！"],["林部長佳龍：不會啦，沒什麼變化。"],["賴委員士葆：賴清德的路美國不放心，所以不給他過境啊！"],["林部長佳龍：不會啦！"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以公布？"],["林部長佳龍：我們跟美國的關係真的可以說是堅若磐石啊！"],["賴委員士葆：你這樣講，但是人家都不理你啊！中共打臺灣就……"],["林部長佳龍：不會啦！我最清楚了，我們的溝通聯繫都非常的暢順。"],["賴委員士葆：最後一個小問題，我們講民主同盟，民主同盟世界什麼的，講得好像會飛天一樣，其實這個很模糊，不像CPTPP、APEC這些是國際組織，我們跟美國關係這麼好，哪一個國際組織美國幫助我們加入，你告訴我。"],["林部長佳龍：其實我們跟美國之間就有很多多邊交流合作的架構。"],["賴委員士葆：架構不算啦！我說的是正式的組織，不論做任何問卷，臺灣人最需要的就是我們要有國際的空間，因為我們實在太辛苦了，老共不斷打壓，幾十年來都打壓，不是只有今天才打壓，一直打壓，我們當然沒有人舒服，大家都不舒服，但是我們就要問你，國際組織有哪一些是美國幫助我們加入，有沒有？"],["林部長佳龍：其實美國都有在國際上面幫我們……"],["賴委員士葆：嘴巴講而已啦！"],["林部長佳龍：不管是協助或者是說很多……"],["賴委員士葆：我的發言時間到了，比如WHA也沒有啊，CPTPP也沒有啊！你講到現在講成這樣，2758號也沒有去提案，嘴巴講只是打嘴炮而已，都沒有實質的，好歹……"],["林部長佳龍：其實我們感謝他們為臺灣不管是發聲或者是說……"],["賴委員士葆：那講給你聽有什麼用？就加入國際組織沒有過沒有關係，比如說WHA它要提案啊，但是它也沒有提案，對不對？它去提案，輸了，我們覺得感激，結果它不是啊，嘴巴講說支持、支持，但實際上都沒有幫忙啊！這會讓人家覺得我們買這麼多的武器，但他們連替我們講一些話都沒有。我講真實數字，在外面講那些都沒有用，要在正式組織裡面講的才有用啦，APEC到現在為止，美國沒有幫我們啊！你剛剛講說可能是林信義，為什麼沒辦法是陳建仁？他好歹當過副總統，位階更高，結果老共打壓它就縮回去。在APEC裡面美國可以講話，美國superpower，實力比老共強太多了，為什麼就美國APEC沒辦法幫我們一下？你利用10秒鐘回答一下。"],["林部長佳龍：這個人選現在還沒有對外宣布。"],["賴委員士葆：就是陳建仁被打槍了，這是事實啊！美國沒幫忙啊！你說多讚又多讚，要幫忙才是真的啊，不然都是嘴巴說說而已。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員，部長請回。","接下來請洪孟楷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":150,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-6","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","徐巧芯","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","黃仁","洪申翰","林楚茵","陳冠廷","林德福","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","賴士葆","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅智強"],"page_start":81,"meetingDate":["2024-10-21"],"gazette_id":"1138601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}